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World T20 discussion thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Thu 09 Sep 2021, 11:18 am

First topic message reminder :

This is fast approaching in the UAE, and squads are beginning to be announced. England have announced theirs this morning

England's preliminary squad for the World T20;

Jason Roy
Jos Buttler
Dawid Malan
Jonny Bairstow
Liam Livingstone
Eoin Morgan
Sam Billings
Moeen Ali
Sam Curran
Chris Woakes
David Willey
Adil Rashid
Mark Wood
Chris Jordan
Tymal Mills

Reserves: James Vince, Liam Dawson, Tom Curran

Looks a solid squad, albeit the team has taken a hit in recent months with Archer's injury and then Stokes's withdrawal from international duty.
Billings in as the main batting backup, makes sense to me. He's played well in limited opportunity the past few summers.
I am a touch surprised both Woakes and Willey are in the squad...seems like they both do the same role to me?
Seems harsh, but happy no Tom Curran. He's not played well enough to be included.
I see some "why no Parkinson?" and it does seem a tad weird he isn't in reserve...but ultimately in T20 can you afford to carry someone like him, who while is a good bowler, is a liability in the field and offers absolutely nothing with the bat. I can see why Dawson is the chosen reserve over him, with those considerations.

I think the likely XI is;

Roy
Buttler
Malan
Bairstow
Livingstone
Morgan
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Wood
Mills

The real selection choices in there are between Woakes/Jordan, and Moeen/Sam Curran. Rest looks fairly set in stone to me
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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 17 Oct 2021, 6:37 pm

Sharp fielding from MacLeod taking a catch behind the boundary flicks it up and catches it back on the pitch. Bangladesh 110 for 6.
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Post by king_carlos Sun 17 Oct 2021, 6:38 pm

For Scotland to be doing this without their dangerous top 5 firing is really impressive.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 17 Oct 2021, 6:42 pm

3-24 from his 4 overs. Brilliant from Wheal.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 17 Oct 2021, 6:49 pm

And Scotland complete a famous win over Bangladesh to win their opening match at the 2021 T-20 World Cup. Scotland win by 6 runs.
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Post by Duty281 Sun 17 Oct 2021, 6:49 pm

Well done Scotland, a strong performance in the field. To have won it from 53/6 in the first innings is quite something.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 17 Oct 2021, 6:50 pm

a bit of nerves for Sco by Sharif lats over...but enuf in the tank to get them thy
excellent to see an upset
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Post by king_carlos Sun 17 Oct 2021, 6:50 pm

Not a good final over from Sharif after he bowled very well in his first 2 but Scotland had done enough in the 18th and 19th overs through Watt and Wheal.

Brilliant win for Scotland.

A massive performance from Chris Greaves.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 17 Oct 2021, 6:50 pm

Superb stuff from Scotland - a really top quality win
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Post by king_carlos Sun 17 Oct 2021, 6:59 pm

If Munsey, Coetzer, Cross and MacLeod fire backed by this attack on slow wickets then I really think Scotland could surprise a couple more Test nations in the Super 12.

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Post by JDizzle Sun 17 Oct 2021, 7:17 pm

Well done Scotland! They have to put away PNG comfortably for NRR purposes - as there is a chance three teams end up on 4 points, so they can’t get carried away by this win as tremendous as it is!

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Post by CaledonianCraig Sun 17 Oct 2021, 7:43 pm

JDizzle wrote:Well done Scotland! They have to put away PNG comfortably for NRR purposes - as there is a chance three teams end up on 4 points, so they can’t get carried away by this win as tremendous as it is!

I fully agree. Don't take your eyes off the main prize.
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Post by guildfordbat Sun 17 Oct 2021, 8:36 pm

king_carlos wrote:Not a good final over from Sharif after he bowled very well in his first 2 but Scotland had done enough in the 18th and 19th overs through Watt and Wheal.

Brilliant win for Scotland.

A massive performance from Chris Greaves.

Fully with you there, Carlos. I guess the key thing for Sharif and the final over was that he didn't bowl a no ball. He did at least manage that even though the delivery that went for six was worryingly close to one on first sight.

Enjoy your night, Craig!

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Post by JDizzle Sun 17 Oct 2021, 10:29 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/58549760

For anyone with a spare few second - I managed to get 43/44! The clues help. Only missed the man who bowled the first ball in T20 cricket.

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Post by alfie Mon 18 Oct 2021, 3:39 am

Wonderful start for Scotland...and a terrific comeback from the early clatter of wickets !

Bangladesh could be in a spot of trouble though : will need to be on their game against Oman or they could make an embarrassing early exit.

If 140 is a winning score at this early stage of the tournament maybe we shouldn't expect a lot of big scores ?

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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 3:51 am

alfie wrote:Wonderful start for Scotland...and a terrific comeback from the early clatter of wickets !

Bangladesh could be in a spot of trouble though : will need to be on their game against Oman or they could make an embarrassing early exit.

If 140 is a winning score at this early stage of the tournament maybe we shouldn't expect a lot of big scores ?

I think they'll be tougher batting wickets but the grounds aren't big so pretty small boundaries. I expect overall the scores will be lower but if the right (or wrong depending on your view) batting lineup get in against a side with a poorly balanced bowling attack for these wickets then it could be carnage with the small boundaries.

Davey's slower balls and cutters worked which bodes well for Mills style of death bowling. Mustafizur was getting purchase with his cutters too of course but the Fizz always does when he's got a functioning shoulder so Davey getting purchase tells more of a story!

I still worry that England only needed one of Woakes and Willey in the squad as a PP bowler. That final spot might've been better off going to Dawson as a left-arm spin option. We will of course have Dilly turning it away from right handers but against right hand heavy batting orders another spinner turning it right-to-left might be useful.

What Wood can get from these wickets will be vital. If hitting the pitch as hard as he does can extract variable bounce then he could be unplayable with the pace he's been consistently bowling in T20s.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 4:12 am

JDizzle wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/58549760

For anyone with a spare few second - I managed to get 43/44! The clues help. Only missed the man who bowled the first ball in T20 cricket.

42/44

Spoiler:

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Post by Soul Requiem Mon 18 Oct 2021, 10:16 am

JDizzle wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/58549760

For anyone with a spare few second - I managed to get 43/44! The clues help. Only missed the man who bowled the first ball in T20 cricket.

31/44, better than I expected to be honest.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 18 Oct 2021, 11:32 am

Ireland on their toes and on the money so far. Netherlands 25/2 off 6 overs.

Mind you, never write off a team with Tendo in their side. He's still to appear.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 18 Oct 2021, 11:46 am

JDizzle wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/58549760

For anyone with a spare few second - I managed to get 43/44! The clues help. Only missed the man who bowled the first ball in T20 cricket.

41/44 - disappointed to not get two of them, I'd never have got 44 though!

Spoiler:

As for this game - good start for Ireland, but I think their main concern is the lack of spin/middle overs options...beginning to show here. Albeit as I type, a wicket (albeit not a good ball!)
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 18 Oct 2021, 11:50 am

And now Tendo gone first ball - my post above has aged dreadfully in two minutes Laugh
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 18 Oct 2021, 11:53 am

HAT TRICK FOR CAMPHER!!!
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Post by Duty281 Mon 18 Oct 2021, 11:56 am

Four in four! I think Campher's announced himself. Dutch going to have to go Scottish to rescue this one.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 18 Oct 2021, 11:58 am

Incredible 4 in 4 for Campher with 2 of the wickets following the third umpire overturning the decision of the onfield Tucker.

For the first, the keeper didn't seem interested and I was with him on first sight in real time. Thought Campher was just trying to distractt from a wide.


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Post by guildfordbat Mon 18 Oct 2021, 12:04 pm

Duty281 wrote:Four in four! I think Campher's announced himself. Dutch going to have to go Scottish to rescue this one.

For sure but the two most likely to pull something like that off for the Dutch are already back in the hutch - Tendo and van der Merwe. A golden duck each. Fantastic for Ireland!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 18 Oct 2021, 12:44 pm

And now a hat trick for Adair to finish it off! Superb effort in the field from Ireland

Chance to go out and really get these quickly for their net run rate here
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Post by Duty281 Mon 18 Oct 2021, 12:46 pm

Not quite a hat-trick, one of those last three was a run-out! But yes, top effort from the Irish and should be comfortable from here.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 18 Oct 2021, 12:49 pm

Dutch 106 all out off their 20 overs.

Campher getting the plaudits on tv and I understand that. However, brilliantly consistent bowling from Adair with 3/9 off his 4 overs.

Very good fielding throughout from Ireland as well. Never lost concentration.

Job not done yet but Ireland are in the posh seats for sure ....

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 18 Oct 2021, 1:36 pm

Ireland well on the way. 70/2 at their halfway point. Just 37 more needed off 60 balls.

Van der Merwe - whom I thought might be a thorn in Ireland's side - having a mare. A golden duck and now 0/33 off his 3 overs.

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Post by guildfordbat Mon 18 Oct 2021, 1:47 pm

87/2 off 12.

As Olly has emphasised, it would be very handy for Ireland's net run rate if they could wrap this up in the next couple of overs.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 18 Oct 2021, 2:02 pm

Solid win for the Irish.

Meanwhile, in the warm-up games - Afghanistan (without Rashid Khan) are heading for a hammering v South Africa, despite Mujeeb's good figures. Pakistan cruising in their chase of 131 v the West Indies. Aus v NZ and Eng v Ind starting in an hour's time (the latter on Sky).

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 18 Oct 2021, 2:56 pm

England XI for this warm up

Roy, Buttler, Malan, Bairstow, Livingstone, Moeen, Woakes, Willey, Jordan, Rashid, Wood

Sincerely hope they're being safe with Mills and not actually thinking of playing two of Woakes/Willey/Jordan. Presume Morgan is being rested post IPL final...?
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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 3:27 pm

Will Morgan have any sort of isolation period after flying over?

If we play Woakes and Willey together in the tournament I'd be fairly concerned.

Is it getting streamed anywhere do you know Olly?

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Post by Duty281 Mon 18 Oct 2021, 4:21 pm

Looks like being a good score from England and, more importantly, all of the top six getting some time in the middle.

Sri Lanka very comfortable v Namibia.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 4:37 pm

Sri Lanka's bowlers have been disciplined and just outclassed the Namibia batsman.

18 from 18 balls for Malan is a concern. Slow start then not kicking on. I do worry about him in these conditions. He's been superb in seam friendly conditions and on flat pitches but he doesn't play spin that well. A World T20 in Australia last year would have been ideal for Malan. A World T20 in UAE really isn't.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 4:40 pm

Wow. Brilliant from Mo in the last over. Not often that Bhuvi gets taken for 21 runs in an over!

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 18 Oct 2021, 4:42 pm

king_carlos wrote:Will Morgan have any sort of isolation period after flying over?

If we play Woakes and Willey together in the tournament I'd be fairly concerned.

Is it getting streamed anywhere do you know Olly?

No mate, Moeen is playing and played IPL - guess we may find out more post game.
On Sky Cricket!

Good effort from England with the bat - albeit the Malan concerns over both his playing of spin and his actual form remain. Do wonder if there is a chance it’s one of him or Morgan with the form both are in…we can’t afford to carry both (Morgan had a woeful IPL with the bat for anyone unaware).

Interesting to see how England go with the ball now
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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 5:02 pm

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:
king_carlos wrote:Will Morgan have any sort of isolation period after flying over?

If we play Woakes and Willey together in the tournament I'd be fairly concerned.

Is it getting streamed anywhere do you know Olly?

No mate, Moeen is playing and played IPL - guess we may find out more post game.
On Sky Cricket!

Good effort from England with the bat - albeit the Malan concerns over both his playing of spin and his actual form remain. Do wonder if there is a chance it’s one of him or Morgan with the form both are in…we can’t afford to carry both (Morgan had a woeful IPL with the bat for anyone unaware).

Interesting to see how England go with the ball now

Cheers, Olly. I'd completely missed that the warm-ups are on Sky until the last couple of overs as I've been watching the first round games.

I was thinking similar with Malan and Morgan but with Stokes and now Sam Curran unavailable I'm not sure if they will want Woakes or Willey at number 7. Even without Stokes had they had Surran available then I could maybe see Mo or Livingtone batting at 3 with the other at 6, then Surran at 7.

1.Roy 2.Buttler 3.Livingstone 4.Bairstow 5.Morgan 6.Moeen 7.Woakes/Willey 8.Willey 9.Rashid 10.Wood 11.Mills

I'm just not sure if they'd go for Woakes or Willey at 7 though given the batting depth England love to have in white ball cricket.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 5:25 pm

When KL Rahul is on he is absolutely devastating.

England need a wicket. That uncharacteristic drop by Woakes could hurt England here.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 5:39 pm

Wood gets Rahul. He's going to be vital in the middle overs with Archer out.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 18 Oct 2021, 5:50 pm

Kishan just annihilated Rashid in that over. Fearsome striking.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 5:55 pm

Kishan is very destructive. Yet another brilliant T20 talent for India's top oder.

Livingstone has bowled well here to be fair.

India should still make it with Kishan there. Rahul chopped the head of the chase early with his PP batting.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 6:00 pm

Rishabh doing Rishabh things.

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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 6:09 pm

Livingstone shells an easy catch and seems to have injured a finger in the process. He's vital for England with Stokes out so that would be a huge blow.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 18 Oct 2021, 6:30 pm

Australia managed to win their warm-up game v NZ. Seemed like a see-saw encounter that the Australians just pulled out of the fire at the last knockings.

Not sure if England can pull this out of the fire - 16 from 10 needed for India. Two sixes and they're laughing.

Oops, Jordan completely misses the pitch. That's the game, effectively.

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Post by JDizzle Mon 18 Oct 2021, 6:34 pm

Jordan is running in and just bowling yorkers. He’s just watched Willey bowl a great over bowling slower balls into the pitch.

On that note, It’d be mad not to pick Mills. Slower balls into the pitch is clearly the way to go if pitches are like this. And he is the best at it.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Mon 18 Oct 2021, 7:57 pm

JDizzle wrote:Jordan is running in and just bowling yorkers. He’s just watched Willey bowl a great over bowling slower balls into the pitch.

On that note, It’d be mad not to pick Mills. Slower balls into the pitch is clearly the way to go if pitches are like this. And he is the best at it.

From what we've seen so far in the tournament, and IPL, not picking a second spinner to Rashid in the squad is an egregious oversight, especially considering they then had a chance to rectify this when Sam Curran got injured (there is still time England!). I am becoming convinced that Dawson should be an option on these wickets, if not a potential first XI player.

I was also looking up some stats...and David Willey's T20 stats since the 2016 World Cup, particularly in the powerplay are a lot better than many would think. Economy of roughly 7 per over, and the second lowest average (and looking back on the 2016 World Cup, he actually played pretty well in that tournament too). Bowled nicely here tonight too, he was the only one swinging the ball first up and actually got it right at the end bowling into the wicket too. As I said pre-tournament, I love me some Sir Chris Woakes...but there is good reason he hasn't played iT20 or been picked up in franchise leagues recently, and tonight didn't do much to allay those fears.

England had better hope Livingstone isn't seriously hurt and that's just a bruised finger...because if he's out, suddenly they lose the option to go with the batting heavy strategy of one of him/Moeen batting at 7. It didn't look promising when he was walking off the field though Sad

Agree on your note re: Mills - he has to play. He has that X-factor element this bowling unit desperately needs with Archer out (similar to what Archer injected into the 2019 ODI World Cup side). I have little faith Silverwood will play him though, there are many 82mph seamers for him to select and satisfy his need for!
Another fairly concerning knock by Malan against spin - general form has been on a downward trend for a while...and him/Morgan being out of nick if Livingstone is injured would suddenly be a mahoosive issue.

It does seem from the outside that they are going to opt for the non batter heavy strategy even if Livingstone is fit...(I think if Archer was playing, they would go for it but alas), which means one of Willey/Woakes at 7 most likely in Sam Curran's absence.

My overreacting, if I could select from the squad/reserves XI for the first proper game would be (this is assuming Livingstone is fit, and pitches are as they have been so far); Roy, Buttler, Malan/Morgan, Bairstow, Livingstone, Moeen, Willey, Dawson, Rashid, Wood, Mills.

Basically my only choice would be between Malan/Morgan based really just on gut of who will come off (Morgan at 3 to keep a left hander in the top order - if he wanted to stay middle order, and Malan is out then you can shift Mo upto 3).
I think I'd plump for Willey at 7 over Woakes as the new ball specialist bowler. Willey I think is also a better six bosher/hitter of spin than Woakes too.

Dawson at 8 would raise eyebrows...but there is no way England can play Willey/Woakes at 7 and then have Jordan (or heaven forbid Tom Curran) at 8. The pitches simply do not warrant having four seamers, and as said above I think Mills has to play. Dawson is a solid reliable cricketer (good in the field, offers left arm spin option in the powerplay to right handers and can bat a bit, albeit it's at 8 so if they're batting for any period you've lost anyways).

Horrendous overreactions everywhere in that post, but I think I've settled finally on what I want to see. Cue Livingstone with a broken finger and all that thrown into the air Very Happy
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Post by king_carlos Mon 18 Oct 2021, 8:34 pm

If Livingstone has broken a finger I could see Dawson being called up with Billings used as the reserve batsman.

1.Roy 2.Bairstow 3.Malan 4.Bairstow 5.Morgan 6.Moeen 7.Willey/Woakes 8.Dawson 9.Rashid 10.Wood 11.Mills

I really don't like the look of Malan and Morgan in the top 5 together with the form they are in though.

Lots of absentees and some worrying times. Remember when our biggest concern was whether Stokes batted at 3 and how you fitted Archer and Mills into the same XI?

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Post by Duty281 Mon 18 Oct 2021, 9:02 pm

If Livingstone turns out to be crocked for the tournament it's a bitter blow to England's chances. I have more concerns about Morgan, who is only in the side because of his captaincy, in the batting than Malan, though I do share the concerns about Malan's capability v spin. At least Buttler/Bairstow/Roy/Moeen are in the side.

But far bigger concerns exist about the bowling. Woakes, Wood, Rashid, Jordan and Moeen all bowled terribly today - yes, they were up against a fantastic batting unit, but they struggled to adapt to the conditions. Mills may be the answer, but it's some pressure to put on someone inexperienced at international level.

One final warm-up (v NZ on Wednesday) before the tournament proper starts for England on Saturday v the West Indies. I imagine England go in with their anticipated XI for Saturday on Wednesday.

As for tomorrow - Scotland v PNG. A Scottish win and they're in the Super 12s. Oman v Bangladesh. Surely Bangladesh don't stumble again? If they do they're out.

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Post by alfie Tue 19 Oct 2021, 9:55 am

I think it is fair to say that "warm up" game had better not be a sign of things to come in the actual tournament - or England as second favourite looks a very poor bet.

Batting was OK : top order failed to kick on after good starts ; but at least that meant that all the top six got time at the crease. Moeen doing a fine job of finishing meant they ended up with what should have been a winning score. But the bowling ...

Mediocre , I think is a fair call. Willey was easily the best and must start based on this display. Hope some of the others were throwing off rust. The fielding was pretty mouldy too from several players. And I really didn't like the look of that Livingstone injury : he actually did better than the two main spinners , quite apart from some more than handy batting. I do fear he might not recover for the main event and am glad Dawson is on hand as a reserve.

Morgan will obviously come back in so if Livingstone is a casualty I'd expect a lineup of :

Roy. Buttler. Malan. Bairstow. Morgan. Moeen. Willey. Dawson. Rashid.+ two of Wood/Mills/Jordan/Woakes/Curran. If the batting is a little shorter than ideal it really shouldn't matter in this brief format. But unless the bowling improves a lot I am not over optimistic about their chances.

Way too early to be predicting anyway and this format is more of a raffle than any other. But India look useful ; and surely won't have any trouble in their group. While the England /Australia/SA/West Indies group might be a pretty competitive one , I think...

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Post by king_carlos Tue 19 Oct 2021, 11:07 am

If we can get Mills and Wood through the whole tournament I think the bowling will be a lot better. Supported by Willey or Woakes in the PP then 3 spinners would have a good balance. If Livingstone is ruled out then surely Dawson needs to be the one called up.

Vitally I can't see Dilly bowling poorly throughout the tournament. He's just too good a bowler to do that, once he finds his pace and length for these surfaces he should be effective against left and right handers given he can spin the ball both ways.

Given Morgan and Malan's poor form it feels like a squad that would be stronger with Root in the reserves. He plays spin so well, would suit the conditions perfectly and can bowl as a spin option which he's done in the PP before for Yorkshire and England.

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