England: Autumn Internationals

First topic message reminder :

England squad for autumn Tests:

Forwards: Jamie Blamire (Newcastle), Callum Chick (Newcastle), Jamie George (Saracens), Tom Curry (Sale), Trevor Davison (Newcastle), Nic Dolly (Leicester), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Ellis Genge (Leicester), Jonny Hill (Exeter), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton), Joe Marler (Harlequins), George Martin (Leicester), Sam Simmonds (Exeter), Kyle Sinckler (Bristol), Will Stuart (Bath), Sam Underhill (Bath)

Backs: Mark Atkinson (Gloucester), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Tommy Freeman (Northampton), George Furbank (Northampton), Max Malins (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester), Raffi Quirke (Sale), Adam Radwan (Newcastle), Harry Randall (Bristol), Henry Slade (Exeter), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Freddie Steward (Leicester), Manu Tuilagi (Sale), Joe Marchant (Quins), Ben Youngs (Leicester)

In Positions:
1.Marler, Genge
2.George, Blamire, Dolly
3.Sinckler, Stuart, Davison
4.Itoje, Hill
5.Lawes, Ewels
6.Curry, Martin
7.Underhill, Ludlam
8.Dombrandt, Simmonds, Chick

9.Youngs, Randall, Quirke
10.Smith

11.May, Radwan
12.Farrell, Atkinson
13.Tuilagi, Slade
14.Freeman, Marchant
15.Steward, Malins, Furbank
-------------------------------------------------
England v Tonga - 6th November
England v Australia - 13th November
England v South Africa - 20th November

GeordieFalcon wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:I like Dombrandt's offloading game but I'd like to see him back his power and get over the line on those last two occasions. The pass to Genge was in no way necessary he should have been able to power over from there. The one to Ewels was nice but I'd have still like to see him back himself.

Like Steward, hes young and will learn...

Yeah I'm hoping he gets a start next week. He's got to learn international rugby and the more he's involved the more he'll learn. I don't think he's exactly what England need at 8 but I think he can develop to be exactly what we do need.

Stupid boy

Pointless cheap shot on Smith. Glad Smith seems to be ok and the idiot is deservedly red carded.

I never understand why players do things like that. The initial tackle wasn't far off being a yellow card either.

Hate the lazy reffing of the roling maul. Pen to Tonga for offside as George moved to the back.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Pointless cheap shot on Smith. Glad Smith seems to be ok and the idiot is deservedly red carded.

I just dont get why players do that....

Nice to see England not lift their foot off.

5 tries for Blamire now

Smith just oozes class doesn't he

Slade as MOTM? He's done a lot of classy bits and pieces but also thrown the odd silly pass, however highlights the Tuilagi effect at 12, he just creates time for others.

Radwan is just so quick.

Soul Requiem wrote:Slade as MOTM? He's done a lot of classy bits and pieces but also thrown the odd silly pass, however highlights the Tuilagi effect at 12, he just creates time for others.

It's a game where you could pick anyone though. So easy no ones out of 2nd gear and nice warm up for aus.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Smith just oozes class doesn't he

He reacts so quickly sometimes I think the rest of the team can get caught out. As the team around him gets more used to him hes just going to look more and more dangerous.

Radawan finally comes to life! Smith is just quality....he's going to be a star.

king_carlos wrote:Radwan is just so quick.

Should have seen where he was throwing that last pass though...

Lots of things to like from that. Few negatives but there need to be a couple of changes to the side next week. Would think Ford is called up tomorrow as well.

Normally these games are bit of a disappointment but I enjoyed that. Good to see the new guys get some game time, huge 2 games coming next.

They really have gone to the football school of after match interviews

I'd say it was a bit hit and miss overall, the first 55 minutes weren't great and against better teams you can't rely on them tiring. The midfield balance is the most pleasing aspect for me and the ability for them to change role throughout the match. The Australia game will be interesting.

Regulation win for England, not much you can say about it really. It was a touch inaccurate, but you would expect that? Would have liked to see Smith under some kind of pressure,he came on with the game won.

I guess I am left asking, what did we learn from this?

Cumbrian wrote:Regulation win for England, not much you can say about it really.  It was a touch inaccurate, but you would expect that?  Would have liked to see Smith under some kind of pressure,he came on with the game won.

I guess I am left asking, what did we learn from this?

We have a winger and a full back who can play. We need to call up a proper back up fly half next week.

And Neil warnock has sodded off so I'm quite happy this afternoon.

Well if this is the first game on the run to WC2023 then it's a good start. More attacking intentions, some good interplay. Kids involved and looked good.

By no means the finished article...but wouldn't expect it...

On to Australia and a much tougher proposition

Oh and please manu...stay fit! You made Slade look good!

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Regulation win for England, not much you can say about it really.  It was a touch inaccurate, but you would expect that?  Would have liked to see Smith under some kind of pressure,he came on with the game won.

I guess I am left asking, what did we learn from this?

We have a winger and a full back who can play. We need to call up a proper back up fly half next week.

And Neil warnock has sodded off so I'm quite happy this afternoon.

I'm not so sure, if the starting standoff got injured 10 minutes in, would you be happy for Furbank to play 70 minutes against the big three (or in the 6N for that matter)? He (to borrow a cricket term) held up an end,but the opposition was poor. Steward did well in context, but he was rarely pressured. I guess bot wingers played well, but there is an asterix there due to the opposition.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Regulation win for England, not much you can say about it really.  It was a touch inaccurate, but you would expect that?  Would have liked to see Smith under some kind of pressure,he came on with the game won.

I guess I am left asking, what did we learn from this?

We have a winger and a full back who can play. We need to call up a proper back up fly half next week.

And Neil warnock has sodded off so I'm quite happy this afternoon.

Ooops, misread your comment. Agreed.

I was briefly confused!

Well SA are basically kick scrum and maul then. Hope they play the same way against us. Reckon our scrum is better equipped with Genge over Vunipola and Stuart there, think they won a pen in every scrum though! Wales got a bit lucky in the mauls for me some interesting tackle calls so you'd imagine Itoje and Lawes will be very important.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What a tackle from Lawes! Awful defending from Steward, Lawes really saved his bacon.

And a awful pass from Slade for the intercept which you have failed to note.

Many a player has been left for dead when against TV.

Tonga always have some exceptional individual players

nathan wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What a tackle from Lawes! Awful defending from Steward, Lawes really saved his bacon.

And a awful pass from Slade for the intercept which you have failed to note.

Many a player has been left for dead when against TV.

I agree.

Steward did enough to allow Lawes to make the tackle. It is a team game after all.

nathan wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:What a tackle from Lawes! Awful defending from Steward, Lawes really saved his bacon.

And a awful pass from Slade for the intercept which you have failed to note.

Many a player has been left for dead when against TV.

I think it was well read rather than awful, so no need to "note".

I stand by that any FB worth his salt would have nailed that tackle. I did like the safety that the lad brings under the high ball though, it's quite refreshing. The balance of the back 3 in general looked pretty good, lets hope they all start again next week.

Slade pretty much had a 3 on 1 at that moment. He shouldn't have thrown it in my view. Re the defence well I said earlier in the week I'd always expect a winger to beat a defender 1 on 1. Steward did well to slow him down a touch.

For the same 12 to 15 will start again next week given I don't think Farrell will be available and won't be able to train. Smith has to start: plenty of people have been praising Furbank but for me he was awol a lot of the time (understandably) and it seemed it was Slade playing fly half for good chunks.

Youngs well he's not going to be dropped it'll need an injury but despite Mitchell's decent showing Quirke will surely come in. Decision in the pack is whether Dombrandt starts, underhill or Lawes or drop Hill. Dombrandt showed immediately he's a much better fit if Jones is serious about playing a more attacking game.

I thought that although Curry's defensive work was top class his carrying wasn't up to much at all. It will be good to have a dedicated carrier there

There's not much point matching up physically with SA so I hope Edie goes it for it somewhat with Dombrandt/Smith coming in. I'd look to go something like this:

1. Marler
2. George
3. Sinkler
4. Itoje
5. Hill
6. Lawes
7. Curry
8. Dombrandt

9. Youngs
10. Smith
11. May
12. Manu
13. Slade
14. Radwan
15. Steward

16. Genge
17. Stewart (not sure about his scummaging though)
18. Blamire
19. Ewels
20. Underhill
21. Quirk
22. Ford
23. ?

It's Australia next. Why pick a full back who is not worth their salt though Sgt?

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's Australia next. Why pick a full back who is not worth their salt though Sgt?

He needs a run of games as I say with every new guy. He obviously has some defensive flaws but he also has some excellent attributes he brings....his technique under the high ball is quite special. He has the attributes to be strong defensively but needs developing.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's Australia next. Why pick a full back who is not worth their salt though Sgt?

Ah ok, could maybe stick with the same pack then...although their scrum has become quite the force over the last year, Marler may be a better option.

And you're happy for someone to learn on the job again like Daly? Remember there is Freeman, Furbank and Malins in the squad. Jones could call up someone else also. Who would you really have there who is competent at defending?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's Australia next. Why pick a full back who is not worth their salt though Sgt?

Ah ok, could maybe stick with the same pack then...although their scrum has become quite the force over the last year, Marler may be a better option.

Massively happy with the 2 loose heads now. Think both sets of front rows are really good. Suppose there's a question mark on whether Blamire can continue to score tries faster than Rory Underwood against the top teams though.

No 7&1/2 wrote:And you're happy for someone to learn on the job again like Daly? Remember there is Freeman, Furbank and Malins in the squad. Jones could call up someone else also. Who would you really have there who is competent at defending?

Completely different scenario. For one, Steward is a FB, Daly wasn't. Steward has the shirt, give him a run.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:And you're happy for someone to learn on the job again like Daly? Remember there is Freeman, Furbank and Malins in the squad. Jones could call up someone else also. Who would you really have there who is competent at defending?

Completely different scenario. For one, Steward is a FB, Daly wasn't. Steward has the shirt, give him a run.

But there must be countless full backs better than Steward defensively so why stick with him learning on the job? He's 20 send him back to Leicester surely? Who would you have or who would you have had before yesterday?

You want him sent back to Tigers? Bit harsh....he needs a run of games to settle in.

I think your answer speaks volumes!

So you want him stay in the squad? Would you just drop him for the XV or the 23? Who would you want to come in?

Personally I'd stick with him. Players have issues with their game that are highlighted whilst watching. Steward's tackle technique needs work, Radwan needs to find a way of getting into the game more, Hill needs to engage brain at times in the lineout and maul.

I've always said players need a run of starts in the side. I'm surprised you'd ditch him so early 7.5.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's Australia next. Why pick a full back who is not worth their salt though Sgt?

Ah ok, could maybe stick with the same pack then...although their scrum has become quite the force over the last year, Marler may be a better option.

Massively happy with the 2 loose heads now. Think both sets of front rows are really good. Suppose there's a question mark on whether Blamire can continue to score tries faster than Rory Underwood against the top teams though.

Hookers seem to be scoring as many or more tries than any other position at the moment

Sgt_Pooly wrote:So you want him stay in the squad? Would you just drop him for the XV or the 23? Who would you want to come in?

Personally I'd stick with him. Players have issues with their game that are highlighted whilst watching. Steward's tackle technique needs work, Radwan needs to find a way of getting into the game more, Hill needs to engage brain at times in the lineout and maul.

I've always said players need a run of starts in the side. I'm surprised you'd ditch him so early 7.5.

Lol. Wow.

lostinwales wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's Australia next. Why pick a full back who is not worth their salt though Sgt?

Ah ok, could maybe stick with the same pack then...although their scrum has become quite the force over the last year, Marler may be a better option.

Massively happy with the 2 loose heads now. Think both sets of front rows are really good. Suppose there's a question mark on whether Blamire can continue to score tries faster than Rory Underwood against the top teams though.

Hookers seem to be scoring as many or more tries than any other position at the moment

True enough it seems. Rolling mauls are a mess in terms of officiating obstruction though. Seems the refs completely forget you're not allowed to disengage and join again at the back.

It’s a shame you aren’t playing NZ this autumn, but the game against SA should be a good one!

I thought Steward did pretty well overall - the tackle was not an easy one and at least he caught up with his man.  Had Steward been in front of his man and totally missed him, that might have been different.

if the young players are to make mistakes -surely it is better now and not in two years time.  I am sure the passage of Smith, Quirke, Steward, Radwan will not entirely be smooth but that process should be accelerated and not extended.

Despite his MOTM, Slade is not really a front line goal kicker (though his left-foot can be used down the RH touchline).

Most of the players played well but I though Manu was very influential.

Cumbrian wrote:Regulation win for England, not much you can say about it really.  It was a touch inaccurate, but you would expect that?  Would have liked to see Smith under some kind of pressure,he came on with the game won.

I guess I am left asking, what did we learn from this?

Well, Slade is not a goal kicker of even Prem level, the points he missed would have made the score closer to the domination England actually had, Furbank should have been given the kicking duties after the 3rd or 4th miss. Lawes not wanting to look to have favoured a club colleague?

England have learnt not to sit back and relax, they continued for 80 minutes.

Tom Curry is not a carrying 8, probably why Lawes was at 6, he didn't get may carries but when he did he went forwards.

Lawes is not a 6 in the way Curry is, but is just as good in his own way, Curry would never have got over to make that tackle, he adds more line out presence and is disruptive all game. (waiting for a rebuke now, from 15/2)

We are spoilt for choice across the front row, and with LCD to return.

If Hill is second or third choice lock, we need to bring in some new blood, average at best against a side he should have been dominant.

Itoje cannot give a masterclass in every game.

Slade and Manu are a good combo and need to be kept, (Manu and Marchant would be better in my opinion) even at the expense of Farrell (won't happen)

Dombrandt needs to step up quick or someone else will, average at best.

Youngs has a very good all-round game, but his passing is still average, loopy and slow as in ball speed, hence loopy to get the distance

Wings are electric and May is still the best kick chaser in the game when catching those long punts downfield.

Steward is work in progress but as Hartley said, the next Mike Brown when it comes to catching and positioning, sadly he also has Browns earlier issues with pace. Needs to be persevered with and have a trip to see Margo.

Oh, and Furbank gave a pretty good performance for a guy thrust into the 10 spot at 24 hours notice, having played there for about 4 games previously, even if it was Tonga.

I think Furbank was decent but he wasn't actually playing as a FH as such. Kicking wise there is no evidence to say he would have been better than Slade's patchy performance, but it did not really matter at all yesterday.

Dombrandt got better as the game wore on but he has a long way to go. Started his stint with plenty of ruck supervising, which is never a good sign, but suspect coming on as he did as a replacement didn't help him.

Curry just ran into brick walls carrying but defense wise he was very strong.

I do hope Farrell is on the bench when he comes back. That backline with Smith, Tuilagi and Slade and that back 3 look as strong a set of backs as England have put out in a very long time.