The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

England: Autumn Internationals

+45
Phil
dummy_half
alfie
Heaf
BigGee
Margin_Walker
RDW
tazfalklands
mikey_dragon
Exiledinborders
nathan
broadlandboy
majesticimperialman
aucklandlaurie
nlpnlp
rosbif
Hazel Sapling
No9
MichaelT
Hoonercat
Collapse2005
ebop
Soul Requiem
miltonkeynesengland
Cumbrian
BigTrevsbigmac
hugehandoff
king_carlos
Old Man
Sgt_Pooly
propdavid_london
yappysnap
cb
tigertattie
doctor_grey
Rugby Fan
No 7&1/2
WELL-PAST-IT
Sharkey06
Mr Bounce
BamBam
Poorfour
lostinwales
formerly known as Sam
GeordieFalcon
49 posters

Page 18 of 21 Previous  1 ... 10 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21  Next

Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty England: Autumn Internationals

Post by GeordieFalcon Wed Oct 27, 2021 12:24 pm

First topic message reminder :

England squad for autumn Tests:

Forwards: Jamie Blamire (Newcastle), Callum Chick (Newcastle), Jamie George (Saracens), Tom Curry (Sale), Trevor Davison (Newcastle), Nic Dolly (Leicester), Alex Dombrandt (Harlequins), Charlie Ewels (Bath), Ellis Genge (Leicester), Jonny Hill (Exeter), Maro Itoje (Saracens), Courtney Lawes (Northampton), Lewis Ludlam (Northampton), Joe Marler (Harlequins), George Martin (Leicester), Sam Simmonds (Exeter), Kyle Sinckler (Bristol), Will Stuart (Bath), Sam Underhill (Bath)

Backs: Mark Atkinson (Gloucester), Owen Farrell (Saracens), Tommy Freeman (Northampton), George Furbank (Northampton), Max Malins (Saracens), Jonny May (Gloucester), Raffi Quirke (Sale), Adam Radwan (Newcastle), Harry Randall (Bristol), Henry Slade (Exeter), Marcus Smith (Harlequins), Freddie Steward (Leicester), Manu Tuilagi (Sale), Joe Marchant (Quins), Ben Youngs (Leicester)

In Positions:
1.Marler, Genge
2.George, Blamire, Dolly
3.Sinckler, Stuart, Davison
4.Itoje, Hill
5.Lawes, Ewels
6.Curry, Martin
7.Underhill, Ludlam
8.Dombrandt, Simmonds, Chick

9.Youngs, Randall, Quirke
10.Smith

11.May, Radwan
12.Farrell, Atkinson
13.Tuilagi, Slade
14.Freeman, Marchant
15.Steward, Malins, Furbank
-------------------------------------------------
England v Tonga - 6th November
England v Australia - 13th November
England v South Africa - 20th November

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 25702
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

RiscaGame likes this post

Back to top Go down


England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by Poorfour Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:15 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Smiths in the team though?

As if the Boks needed more of an excuse to rough up the young 10. No recognised back up at flyhalf against one of the best controlling teams in World Rugby. They can force Smith into his shell or off the field we don't have anything close to a like for like option.

I think you are missing an "If" in that sentence. Smith is a pretty tough cookie as he showed in the Australia game. Took a fair few hits and bounced back up, hit a lot of rucks for a 10 and was England's top tackler. There is a risk if they can get to him, but I think they will have to injure him to subdue him. He's got no history of going into his shell under pressure. Teams (yes, including Leicester at Welford Road last season) have restricted his opportunities but he's still been able to take them when they arise.

And arguably, England don't have anything close to a like for like option whether they have a specialist backup or not. There's no one who plays in quite the same way.

For me, it hinges on whether England can give Smith enough options that the Bok defence can't cover them all. He's quite happy to draw defenders to himself as long as that creates space for the ball to go somewhere else, and his point of difference is how late he can make his choices. Even the most disciplined defence will start to hesitate if he can spot what they're not covering and exploit it.

In the grand scheme of things, I suspect Eddie is viewing the positives of the injuries and COVID exclusions - it's a chance to see how the squad and players perform under the sort of scenarios that can occur at an RWC. He probably won't mind losing this game if he learns something about who steps up under these conditions and who doesn't.
Poorfour
Poorfour

Posts : 5111
Join date : 2011-10-01

formerly known as Sam likes this post

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by lostinwales Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:19 am

There will always be a price on Smith's head

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 12270
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by Old Man Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:23 am

Boks won't try to take Smith out of the game, they want to take the impetus he creates out of the game, they will aim to rattle him.

Old Man

Posts : 2906
Join date : 2019-08-27

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by GeordieFalcon Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:35 am

Malins is a good back up 10. More than happy with him there....

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 25702
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by GeordieFalcon Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:41 am

We need to move the boks around....and stop their slowing the game down tactics....

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 25702
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by Old Man Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:45 am

Trying to move the Boks around is an old cliche that respectfully doesn't work, the Boks froward pack haven't been the biggest, heaviest and slowest for some time now.

You want to beat the Boks you need to get front foot ball, drive them behind the gainline, you need to have the ball carriers that can find that extra meter or two post contact, you need their defensive system to be on the back foot.

That is the only way to negate their rush defence.

When you look at how Australia pummeled them, it wasn't running the Boks around, it was running through them in the close channels, gaining momentum and front foot ball.

Old Man

Posts : 2906
Join date : 2019-08-27

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by Poorfour Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:46 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:Malins is a good back up 10. More than happy with him there....

Question is, will we see him there while Smith is on the field? Regardless of numbers, it wouldn't be a total surprise to see Malins at first receiver feeding Tuilagi with Smith hovering for the next phase and Slade floating around somewhere in the back three. I'm not sure I'm keen on that: I want to see Smith given a chance to ask questions of the Bok defence and see if he can find its weak spots.

A lot of how England play may well depend on the choice of 8 and 9. If Curry and Youngs both start, then expect last weekend's attack until they are subbed. If Dombrandt starts it gets more interesting as Smith will have a close carrier who knows how to run lines off him, if Quirke starts as well we have a different attacking threat around the ruck.

The Lions attack failed because they tried to play off 13 most of the time but Am won the race to get to Daly before the ball did. England can't give them such an obvious target - the more realistic options there are, the harder the defensive effort gets.
Poorfour
Poorfour

Posts : 5111
Join date : 2011-10-01

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by lostinwales Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:59 am

Everybody knows how SA are going to play. Stopping them is the hard bit

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 12270
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by No 7&1/2 Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:22 am

Strong ref will help. The appearance that England are wanting to play, being at the scrum and lineout early will help. Don't let them slow restarts.

Yes they'll kick alot and look to move from set piece to set piece. Steward, Youngs and Smith are the key men for me. I expect something that Jones has been planning since the final and when he's left with a burning resentment there's normally a positive reaction.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by Old Man Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:25 am

It should be a good test match. Both teams are physical, both team can kick, both teams can run.

Old Man

Posts : 2906
Join date : 2019-08-27

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by miltonkeynesengland Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:44 am

Old Man wrote:Trying to move the Boks around is an old cliche that respectfully doesn't work, the Boks froward pack haven't been the biggest, heaviest and slowest for some time now.

You want to beat the Boks you need to get front foot ball, drive them behind the gainline, you need to have the ball carriers that can find that extra meter or two post contact, you need their defensive system to be on the back foot.

That is the only way to negate their rush defence.

When you look at how Australia pummeled them, it wasn't running the Boks around, it was running through them in the close channels, gaining momentum and front foot ball.

That's the key for me...and it comes down to the rucks. Guys like Etzebeth and Vermeulen on their own can slow us down for 3 seconds so the rush defence is set. We have yo resource the ruck properly. We had too many ruck inspectors waiting for the ball to come out when it wasn't even secure.
If we can get quick ball we can stop AM (and how is he not on player of the year shortlist??) Crashing in to shut down attempts to get round the edge.
I have a horrible feeling we may get a kicking...but I just want to see us try to develop a more expansive game. We won't beat SA by being Bok lite...(or new Bok....or classic Bok)..they're better at it than us and have the players for it.

miltonkeynesengland

Posts : 93
Join date : 2020-02-02

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by Old Man Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:48 am

Jaques Nienaber mentioned the other day the average team has 4-5 pilferers, SA have them across the board, that what makes ruck speed against them tough.

Old Man

Posts : 2906
Join date : 2019-08-27

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:50 am

The amount of counter rucking Aus did against us last week must have serious alarm bells ringing for Eddie, SA are a complete step up in this regard. You can have all the attacking talent in the world, but if you can't protect your own ball...we're going to struggle.

I'm going for a SA win by 7.

Sgt_Pooly
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 35475
Join date : 2011-04-27

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by doctor_grey Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:56 am

Old Man wrote:Boks won't try to take Smith out of the game, they want to take the impetus he creates out of the game, they will aim to rattle him.
Which is exactly what good defenses do.  Smith started playing in the Premiership when he was 18 or 19.  Teams always targeted him.  I don't think that will rattle him too much.  

I agree, though, the game will probably be won or lost at the breakdown and with England's inexperienced front row (excluding Sinckler, of course).

doctor_grey

Posts : 10356
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by formerly known as Sam Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:23 am

Old Man wrote:Trying to move the Boks around is an old cliche that respectfully doesn't work, the Boks froward pack haven't been the biggest, heaviest and slowest for some time now.

You want to beat the Boks you need to get front foot ball, drive them behind the gainline, you need to have the ball carriers that can find that extra meter or two post contact, you need their defensive system to be on the back foot.

That is the only way to negate their rush defence.

When you look at how Australia pummeled them, it wasn't running the Boks around, it was running through them in the close channels, gaining momentum and front foot ball.

I respectfully disagree. The Boks use a very aggressive defence led by Am, it is quite narrow and relies upon players cover across. If you get on the outside of Am then metres can be made and you are forcing a very physical pack to move backwards. The Lions made the error of trying to run hard at the Boks and to engage in a kicking contest. Neither worked. You are quite right the Boks are not a big and slow stereotype but the tight five is big and it does tire hence the loading of the bench with the bomb squad. Squidge Rugby did a very good YouTube breakdown of how initial breaks could be made out wide and then players can flood through in phases thereafter before the Boks can get realigned. Targeting their defensive leader (normally Vermeulen) so he isn't there to direct also helps.

The injuries to the Boks pack does mean they are lighter than they would be ordinarily. The more that can be taken out of the legs of the tight five early on will make things that little more barrable at the set piece later on. 

There is also the possibility of Frans Steyn at fullback, mountain of a man but not the quickest. A lot of opportunity to move him around the backfield and get him tired with grubbers in behind and kicks that turn him. Once he's feeling it in the legs there's the opportunity to put contestable kicks on him, harder to get airborne when you're blowing and someone like Johnny May is very quick.

It's not an easy tactic to make work but I don't think there is an easy tactic to beat the Boks.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 17910
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 35
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by formerly known as Sam Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:26 am

Poorfour wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Smiths in the team though?

As if the Boks needed more of an excuse to rough up the young 10. No recognised back up at flyhalf against one of the best controlling teams in World Rugby. They can force Smith into his shell or off the field we don't have anything close to a like for like option.

I think you are missing an "If" in that sentence. Smith is a pretty tough cookie as he showed in the Australia game. Took a fair few hits and bounced back up, hit a lot of rucks for a 10 and was England's top tackler. There is a risk if they can get to him, but I think they will have to injure him to subdue him. He's got no history of going into his shell under pressure. Teams (yes, including Leicester at Welford Road last season) have restricted his opportunities but he's still been able to take them when they arise.

And arguably, England don't have anything close to a like for like option whether they have a specialist backup or not. There's no one who plays in quite the same way.

For me, it hinges on whether England can give Smith enough options that the Bok defence can't cover them all. He's quite happy to draw defenders to himself as long as that creates space for the ball to go somewhere else, and his point of difference is how late he can make his choices. Even the most disciplined defence will start to hesitate if he can spot what they're not covering and exploit it.

In the grand scheme of things, I suspect Eddie is viewing the positives of the injuries and COVID exclusions - it's a chance to see how the squad and players perform under the sort of scenarios that can occur at an RWC. He probably won't mind losing this game if he learns something about who steps up under these conditions and who doesn't.

You are quite right there should have been an if in there.

Smith is tough but most Prem teams pay good money to have a big Saffa or two on their pack to add some grit. Few can afford any of the Boks starters. Smith is going to get a lot of attention from bigger and nastier forwards than he has to date. That and the Boks centres are absolute class, particularly in defence. I suspect a few borderline hits to go in on him early doors. He's normally good at dodging those at Prem level but interesting to see if he can do at international level.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 17910
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 35
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by No 7&1/2 Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:37 am

He's going to get hit particularly in the way he plays; did against Aus.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by No 7&1/2 Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:42 am

As much there's the question of how England play I am interested as to how SA will approach things. Should Steward continue his form in the air where do they go?

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

GeordieFalcon likes this post

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by GeordieFalcon Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:01 pm

SA announced their team already...will ours be announced today?

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 25702
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by miltonkeynesengland Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:02 pm

Just seen bok team....to paraphrase Wellington...they're going to come at us in the same old way. Short of a battallion or two of artillery we may be in a spot of bother!! Yowch that's a formidable 23

miltonkeynesengland

Posts : 93
Join date : 2020-02-02

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by No 7&1/2 Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:05 pm

Springbok team to face England in London from the SA site:
15 – Willie le Roux (Toyota Verblitz) – 71 caps, 60 pts (12t)
14 – Jesse Kriel (Canon Eagles) – 50 caps, 60 pts (12t)
13 – Lukhanyo Am (Cell C Sharks) – 25 caps, 25 pts (5t)
12 – Damian de Allende (Munster) – 57 caps, 35 pts (7t)
11 – Makazole Mapimpi (Cell C Sharks) – 24 caps, 95 pts (19t)
10 – Handré Pollard (Montpellier) – 59 caps, 586 pts (6t, 83c, 126p, 4d)
9 – Cobus Reinach (Montpellier) – 20 caps, 40pts (8t)
8 – Duane Vermeulen (Ulster) – 60 caps, 15 pts (3t)
7 – Kwagga Smith (Yamaha Júbilo) – 18 caps, 5 pts (1t)
6 – Siya Kolisi (captain, Cell C Sharks) – 62 caps, 30 pts (6t)
5 – Lood de Jager (Sale Sharks) – 55 caps, 25 pts (5t)
4 – Eben Etzebeth (Toulon) – 96 caps, 15 pts (3t)
3 – Trevor Nyakane (Vodacom Bulls) – 53 caps, 5pts (1t)
2 – Bongi Mbonambi (Cell C Sharks) – 47 caps, 45 pts (9t)
1 – Ox Nché (Cell C Sharks) – 8 caps, 0pts

Replacements:
16 – Malcolm Marx (Kubota Spears) – 45 caps, 50 pts (10t)
17 – Steven Kitshoff (DHL Stormers) – 58 caps, 5pts (1t)
18 – Vincent Koch (Saracens) – 30 caps, 0 pts
19 – Franco Mostert (Honda Heat) – 50 caps, 5pts (1t)
20 – Jasper Wiese (Leicester Tigers) – 10 caps, 0 pts
21 – Herschel Jantjies (DHL Stormers) – 20 caps, 25 pts (5t)
22 – Elton Jantjies (NTT Docomo Red Hurricanes) – 43 caps, 323 pts (2t, 65c, 60p, 1d)
23 – Frans Steyn (Toyota Cheetahs) – 73 caps, 147pts (11t, 7c, 23p, 3d)

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by No 7&1/2 Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:08 pm

“We built up good momentum in the Tests against Wales and Scotland, and it is important for us to transfer that into our final match of the tour against England, so we opted to make only three changes to the starting team for this weekend’s clash,” said Nienaber.

“England will pose different threats to Scotland, and with that in mind we have decided to start with Handré, Cobus and Lood.

Lood de Jager is back at lock in the Boks' starting team.
Lood de Jager is back at lock in the Boks' starting team.

“Elton, Herschel and Franco have shown that they can inject energy and ignite a spark on attack off the bench, which will be handy against an English outfit that we know will be highly charged up for this match.”

Nienaber anticipated an epic battle between the teams.

“England have made it clear that they’ll come hard at us in this match, and with a few British & Irish Lions players in their midst, home ground advantage and a new record of eight wins in a row against Australia adding to their motivation this weekend, so we know it will be a hard grind,” said the Bok coach.

“That said, we will enter the match equally motivated, especially with the opportunity to retain our status as the top team in the world for a third successive season and winning all three matches in the Castle Lager Outgoing Tour for the first time in eight years being a real prospect.”

Nienaber added: “This has been arguably the most challenging season for a Springbok team yet due to the challenges presented by the COVID-19 pandemic, and to finish off the year with a victory against England would be a fantastic reward for the team.”

As with most of the northern hemisphere teams, Nienaber expected a monstrous forward battle, but he said England have the players and ability to mix things up on the day.


“England have traditionally had a strong pack of forwards and backs that can trigger action on attack, but they have a number of new players and coaches this season, who will want to make their mark, so there may be a different dynamic in their style of play,” he said.

“We’ve been doing our homework and we’ve been putting in the hard yards both on and off the field, so we need to make sure we are mentally and physically sharp on Saturday and convert the opportunities we create on attack into points because in a Test match such as this there are generally only a few of them.”

Andrew Brace (Ireland) has been appointed the match referee and he will be assisted by Angus Gardner (Australia) and Frank Murphy (Ireland), while his Irish compatriot Brian MacNeice will be on Television Match Official duty.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by formerly known as Sam Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:32 pm

Shocked well that's quite a 23. Going to be a big ask this weekend for England to come through against those guys.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 17910
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 35
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by Old Man Tue Nov 16, 2021 12:46 pm

Well at least Nienaber has come to his senses and picked Reinach at nine.

It is the best available selection he could have made apart from Wiese. I would have preferred Van Staden.

Only missing Snyman, Faf, PSDT and Kolbe

Old Man

Posts : 2906
Join date : 2019-08-27

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by Sgt_Pooly Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:00 pm

Pretty much the best 23 SA could put out. We're obviously the biggest scalp for them this tour and looking at that side, it's going to be some task for us.

I really hope Marler manages to start, he could make a big difference


Last edited by Sgt_Pooly on Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:06 pm; edited 1 time in total

Sgt_Pooly
Moderator
Moderator

Posts : 35475
Join date : 2011-04-27

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by lostinwales Tue Nov 16, 2021 2:05 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Pretty much the best 23 SA could put out. We're obviously the biggest scalp for them this your and looking at that side, it's going to be some task for us.

I really hope Marler manages to start, he could make a big difference

Do we know if Marler has been asymptomatic? He is one player who you'd expect to be able to fit in at short notice, but none of this will make any difference if he's actually been ill.

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 12270
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by WELL-PAST-IT Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:40 pm

lostinwales wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Pretty much the best 23 SA could put out. We're obviously the biggest scalp for them this your and looking at that side, it's going to be some task for us.

I really hope Marler manages to start, he could make a big difference

Do we know if Marler has been asymptomatic? He is one player who you'd expect to be able to fit in at short notice, but none of this will make any difference if he's actually been ill.

He looked pretty ok before he decided to test the "those with Covid cannot taste" theory and ate that chilli. Couldn't taste it, but his Mrs. was in fits watching him trying to "put out the fire". No sympathy at all.

If he ate it, I wouldn't want to be Itoje.
WELL-PAST-IT
WELL-PAST-IT

Posts : 3371
Join date : 2011-06-01

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by doctor_grey Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:16 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:He looked pretty ok before he decided to test the "those with Covid cannot taste" theory and ate that chilli. Couldn't taste it, but his Mrs. was in fits watching him trying to "put out the fire". No sympathy at all.

If he ate it, I wouldn't want to be Itoje.
Harzadous Duty Pay

doctor_grey

Posts : 10356
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by Poorfour Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:56 pm

On the other hand, his contribution to the shove might have a certain amount of rocket-fuelled impetus.
Poorfour
Poorfour

Posts : 5111
Join date : 2011-10-01

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by doctor_grey Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:38 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Pretty much the best 23 SA could put out. We're obviously the biggest scalp for them this tour and looking at that side, it's going to be some task for us.

I really hope Marler manages to start, he could make a big difference
Certainly going to be quite a challenge for England. In the front row, with the exception of Sinckler, we have third, fourth, or fifth choice front row players. If they can gain some level of parity in the set piece, but just as importantly be effective at the breakdown, then we have a match. Puts more pressure on Smith and the back line to really get it right. I am pretty sure Smith will do fine, he has been targeted since he started for Quins as a teenager. No better preparation than that. Just waiting for the 23 selections which Eddie Jones will make. And then Saturday, which I am looking forward to immensely. The Boks are such a good side....

In a nutshell:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8VxaIVluQCk


Last edited by doctor_grey on Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:05 am; edited 1 time in total

doctor_grey

Posts : 10356
Join date : 2011-04-30

lostinwales likes this post

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:56 am

Unsurprising to see all the media are focusing on George and Genge missing out rather than Farrell. Scrum was clearly so important in the WC and on face value it is concerning if we are down to 3rd, arguably 4th loose head starting and 3rd choice hooker. Corbisiero said it's going to be an uphill battle but is hopeful Marler comes to the rescue, Proudfoot thinks it's a matter of mindset and a great chance for the guys coming in. Not much mentioned on lineout and breakdown balance.

Jones remains quiet doesn't he? Makes it seem like he's quietly confident?

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by formerly known as Sam Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:07 am

If Marler is unavailable it's more like sixth choice loosehead isn't it?

Genge - Covid
Marler - Covid maybe
Obano - injured
West - injured
Mako - abroad somewhere
Rodd - available

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 17910
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 35
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by doctor_grey Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:09 am

I think Corbs is right and, frankly, is nothing we haven't been saying ourselves. Set-piece is critical. England have to obtain some level of parity. Proudfoot has to say something like that in his position, eh?

doctor_grey

Posts : 10356
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by GeordieFalcon Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:13 am

Well lets see how these 3rd and 4th choice players perform when their backs are against the wall.....thats what Jones is using these AI's for!


GeordieFalcon

Posts : 25702
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:16 am

Well I'm crossing my fingers that Marler is available! I think Rodd is probably above a few of them now, the question mark I had was on Vunipola. I just feel him and Billy are off to France so they've taken the choice for others to gain experience.

Proudfoot reckons we'll go well think. It is what it is. Some questions on pack makeup though. Locks, flankers and 8 more than front row which is pretty much an enforced choice now (though Singleton may jump straight in I suppose).

Guardian quotes: “You can go back in history and look at every great player. The first time they got the opportunity, the narrative would have been: ‘Is he ready?’ But it’s about how he grabs it. For me, on Saturday, it’s about what’s in that jersey; who is putting that white jersey on. I’ve got a lot of confidence in any of the front-rowers we’re going to pick.” This is the most important game of the year for us. Our mindset is to confront it, go head on and not back away from it. Playing the world champions is always a big challenge.

“They have proved over the last two years they are the best side in the world and they deserve that title. I am sure the players we will
select will be up for the challenge. The players [also] know it is Twickenham, it is their home and that is what they stand for. They will have the right mindset on Saturday.”

I do disagree with South African , sorry Scottish, Proudfoot's thoughts that SA are the best in the world but suspect it's about bigging this up as game to the players. Momentum is a great thing and to take that to the 6Ns will be fantastic. Don't think that mentally a few players were where they should have been for the WC and this just seems all focused on it. Geordie they clearly want to broaden the pool of players but really think they'll be going all out for this game.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by GeordieFalcon Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:33 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Geordie they clearly want to broaden the pool of players but really think they'll be going all out for this game.

Ive firmly believe this has been an experimental few games, rather than going in "Solely" for wins.

He's trialed some tactics, he's trialed some positional movements, hes' trialed new players....

He saw how some of them coped v Tonga, then the step up to Australia...and now he'll get a good idea of how some of the newbies perform v the sheer ferocious physicality of the boks. Baptism of fire...yes...but we all know Eddie loves that.

The ones who cope...expect to see them when the real squad is named for the 6n....

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 25702
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by doctor_grey Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:53 am

GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Geordie they clearly want to broaden the pool of players but really think they'll be going all out for this game.

Ive firmly believe this has been an experimental few games, rather than going in "Solely" for wins.

He's trialed some tactics, he's trialed some positional movements, hes' trialed new players....

He saw how some of them coped v Tonga, then the step up to Australia...and now he'll get a good idea of how some of the newbies perform v the sheer ferocious physicality of the boks. Baptism of fire...yes...but we all know Eddie loves that.

The ones who cope...expect to see them when the real squad is named for the 6n....
I reckon you are right Geordie. But I think the time to do this was last season.

On the other hand, I doubt EJ wanted to be looking at 4th or 5th choice players in this match. But, given there is no real choice at the moment, no time like the present.

doctor_grey

Posts : 10356
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by lostinwales Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:56 am

Yeah the Radwan thing is interesting. I am assuming (hoping) he's done enough. The Australian selection did seem like an attempt to shoehorn Farrell and Smith in with the full centre combo 'so they all rolled over and Radwan fell out' but that isn't the case anymore. Its also possible that Radwan was a bit bruised after Tonga (like Malins was going into it).

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 12270
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Nov 17, 2021 10:58 am

Think this is the real squad personally. Yes if people wilt on Saturday we may see the back of them and a few guys may put their hands up in the prem. But I don't think we'll see the vunipola s and Ford back in the 6Ns.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by doctor_grey Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:06 am

No 7&1/2 wrote:Think this is the real squad personally. Yes if people wilt on Saturday we may see the back of them and a few guys may put their hands up in the prem. But I don't think we'll see the vunipola s and Ford back in the 6Ns.
That's an interesting point for me.
Billy Cheeseburger ate his way our of the squad. Yes, he didn't have much match competition to be in game shape, but he was clearly not in any kind of shape when last season started. This was a glaring lack of respect, a dose of over-confidence, and/or something else. Mako still made the Lions, regardless how uneven his performances were. So not sure if he is in EJ's RWC plans or not (though I guess not). Ford clearly needed a recharge, which looks like it took. Hard to tell EJ's plans for him. I think this autumn, it would create a distraction if the plan was to bed in Smith. I have nothing on which to base my opinion, but I don't think England have seen the last of Ford.

doctor_grey

Posts : 10356
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by GeordieFalcon Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:11 am

doctor_grey wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:Geordie they clearly want to broaden the pool of players but really think they'll be going all out for this game.

Ive firmly believe this has been an experimental few games, rather than going in "Solely" for wins.

He's trialed some tactics, he's trialed some positional movements, hes' trialed new players....

He saw how some of them coped v Tonga, then the step up to Australia...and now he'll get a good idea of how some of the newbies perform v the sheer ferocious physicality of the boks. Baptism of fire...yes...but we all know Eddie loves that.

The ones who cope...expect to see them when the real squad is named for the 6n....
I reckon you are right Geordie.  But I think the time to do this was last season.  

On the other hand, I doubt EJ wanted to be looking at 4th or 5th choice players in this match.  But, given there is no real choice at the moment, no time like the present.  

Oh i doubt he did...BUT thats what happens in World Cups and tournaments....its how the squad handle it. And its been forced on him now so he'll probably secretly be quite excited to see how it pans out.


GeordieFalcon

Posts : 25702
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by lostinwales Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:27 am

There are a stack of positives no matter what happens.

A bunch of players have been blooded and very few looked out of place. Malins and Radwan are genuine test wingers. Smith and Steward look to be the real deal. Rodd fitted in without too many complaints. Blamire and Dombrandt have been good if not quite the full package yet, and two new scrum halves have got on the pitch and looked the part in a way that, for instance, I am not convinced that Robson ever did.

On top of that Hill seems finally to be justifying his place and we have got 2 games out of Manu without him breaking down and looking impressive. Fantastic seeing how much the Australian midfield was scrabbling to cover him leaving space for everyone else.

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 12270
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

GeordieFalcon, Poorfour and No 7&1/2 like this post

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by GeordieFalcon Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:35 am

Exactly LIW.

Ill be watching Johnny Hill closely again on Saturday. We saw Glimpses of his Exeter game on Saturday...i want to see more of that...

GeordieFalcon

Posts : 25702
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by doctor_grey Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:45 pm

GeordieFalcon wrote:Exactly LIW.

Ill be watching Johnny Hill closely again on Saturday. We saw Glimpses of his Exeter game on Saturday...i want to see more of that...
Just be careful how 'closely' you watch Jonny Hill. There are still laws in this country.....

On a more serious side, I agree with most of us that was Hill's best match in an England jersey. Kind of late to the party, but very welcome and let's hope he ramps it up even more.

I think more than any other players, it will be Rodd and Blamire who have targets on their backs (probably their front too). Inexperienced players at this level always get extra attention, just as every team would do. I would expect serious challenges in the lineouts and a lot of pressure in the scrums. As I said, I really don't have many concerns about Smith if - and this is a big if - he gets half-decent ball to work with. Which means strong work at the breakdown and fast service from our 9.

I do have a question about Radwan. If he is selected and gets meaningful time, I presume he will be tested right away. How is he fielding kicks? I haven't seen him enough to have an opinion. Not the biggest lad in the universe, but that is not everything.

doctor_grey

Posts : 10356
Join date : 2011-04-30

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by lostinwales Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:56 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
GeordieFalcon wrote:Exactly LIW.

Ill be watching Johnny Hill closely again on Saturday. We saw Glimpses of his Exeter game on Saturday...i want to see more of that...
Just be careful how 'closely' you watch Jonny Hill.  There are still laws in this country.....

On a more serious side, I agree with most of us that was Hill's best match in an England jersey.  Kind of late to the party, but very welcome and let's hope he ramps it up even more.    

I think more than any other players, it will be Rodd and Blamire who have targets on their backs (probably their front too).  Inexperienced players at this level always get extra attention, just as every team would do.  I would expect serious challenges in the lineouts and a lot of pressure in the scrums.  As I said, I really don't have many concerns about Smith if - and this is a big if - he gets half-decent ball to work with.  Which means strong work at the breakdown and fast service from our 9.  

I do have a question about Radwan.  If he is selected and gets meaningful time, I presume he will be tested right away.  How is he fielding kicks?  I haven't seen him enough to have an opinion.  Not the biggest lad in the universe, but that is not everything.  

There will be others who have a more informed opinion but from what I have seen he can certainly catch. He's not a kicker but given how agile he is you'll need to have the chase arrive at the same time as the ball or you could be made to look very dumb.

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 12270
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by miltonkeynesengland Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:42 pm

Just heard the terrible news about poor Jannie du Plessis. Such a tragedy losing his son. Puts everything else into perspective. I hope we will have a minutes silence on Saturday.

miltonkeynesengland

Posts : 93
Join date : 2020-02-02

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Nov 17, 2021 3:52 pm

miltonkeynesengland wrote:Just heard the terrible news about poor Jannie du Plessis. Such a tragedy losing his son. Puts everything else into perspective. I hope we will have a minutes silence on Saturday.

God that's horrible. Yes I'm sure they will.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by majesticimperialman Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:58 pm

As the team been announced yet?

majesticimperialman

Posts : 6021
Join date : 2011-02-11

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by No 7&1/2 Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:23 pm

Yes.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 26474
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by formerly known as Sam Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:02 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:As the team been announced yet?

South Africa, yes. England tomorrow 1.30pm.

formerly known as Sam

Posts : 17910
Join date : 2011-07-13
Age : 35
Location : Leicestershire

Back to top Go down

England: Autumn Internationals - Page 18 Empty Re: England: Autumn Internationals

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 18 of 21 Previous  1 ... 10 ... 17, 18, 19, 20, 21  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum