Wales International: games, squads, tournaments, chat - 2021/22

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A place to chat about everything ‘Wales’ going forward.

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First up: South Africa 6th November 2021

Wales: Johnny McNicholl; Louis Rees-Zammit, Jonathan Davies (capt), Nick Tompkins, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Tomos Williams; Rhys Carre, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Will Rowlands, Adam Beard, Ellis Jenkins, Taine Basham, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Bradley Roberts, Wyn Jones, WillGriff John, Ben Carter, Seb Davies, Gareth Davies, Gareth Anscombe, Liam Williams.

South Africa: Damian Willemse; Jesse Kriel, Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Makazole Mapimpi; Handre Pollard, Herschel Jantjies; Ox Nche, Bongi Mbonambi, Trevor Nyakane, Eben Etzebeth, Lood De Jager, Siya Kolisi (capt), Kwagga Smith, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff, Vincent Koch, Franco Mostert, Jasper Wiese, Cobus Reinach, Elton Jantjies, Frans Steyn.

Bit harsh considering how good the dummy was!

For the fact his arm is softly swinging, I will say i would be screaming red for that, if it was against Wales. I do think the minimal contact saves him.

Wales are self destructing anyway.

Nic White is as much as a deck as Biggar to refs.

Poor sub timing there. Don’t think a hooker should walk straight into a lineout.

I guess it was because they were waiting for a break.

Jesus.

Big big trouble.

If Wales get out of this, Pivac really is charmed this year.

We’re pants!

Jesus.

Why are the crowd booing Oz before the kick?! Should be booing us!

Even if they do this through a great offloading game bloody hell wheres the game management.

Touch lucky with the Wales player diving off their feet as well. Looks like they've won it but wow. Pretty awful.

Wales definitely the jammiest team in world

Australia extremely unfortunate with the refereeing. Clear red not given v a Welsh player, then multiple times Wales sealing off on the final drive.

Not sure why the coaching team are smiling. Or the players for that matter.

Duty281 wrote:Australia extremely unfortunate with the refereeing. Clear red not given v a Welsh player, then multiple times Wales sealing off on the final drive.

They were in at the side all game last weekend against Fiji too and never pinged. I presume these things balance themselves out and Wales are in for a tough 2022

Literally the only time Wales strung some phase play together they cut through Aus. Basham had a good Autumn - but my god he had hands like shovels today.

Like Basham says...disappointing they should be looking for a 5 point win after that time vs 14 men....

Oz 0 from 3 but maybe a bit unlucky with the officiating today ...

Win is a win. Wouldn’t have wanted this site to be robbed of the red card win stat either. Might’ve had to have people actually talk rugby then, rather than decisions Wales get.

We will soon see the pluses/negatives of this AI series, in the Six Nations or even in the next RWC. AIs are about gaining depth. If friendly wins were worth anything, Ireland would’ve got further than a Quarter Final in a RWC.

So are you happy overall then with how it's gone for Wales?

Let's not make out that any international rugby is a friendly because it's not.

Heaf wrote:So are you happy overall then with how it's gone for Wales?

No.

Am I happy people get their wish and can bellyache about Wales? Yes.

You only have to look at people’s sole contributions to this thread, to see how much it means to people.

I'd want Wales to beat Oz every day of the week as I always prefer the home nations to the rest of the world (with the possible exception of when one is a massive underdog), but I do honestly think they didn't get the rub of the green at times today

To all you loyal Welsh fans, do you think this tournament as been a good tournament for Wales? for the last 2weeks Wales have beaten for most of the game a 14/13 man side, but not that convincingly, so i ask i do you rate this tournament for Wales.

RiscaGame wrote:Win is a win. Wouldn’t have wanted this site to be robbed of the red card win stat either. Might’ve had to have people actually talk rugby then, rather than decisions Wales get.

We will soon see the pluses/negatives of this AI series, in the Six Nations or even in the next RWC. AIs are about gaining depth. If friendly wins were worth anything, Ireland would’ve got further than a Quarter Final in a RWC.

They're test matches not friendlies. This isn't soccer.

Middling Autumn really. Played basically four entire games without what has been the core of the Welsh pack for years - Owens, AWJ. Faletau and Navidi too. Elias was a plus, but we still don’t know what our best front row is as the scrum was hammered by both SA and Aus.

Beard has really established himself as the number one second row. Rowlands did okay, and I thought Seb Davies was good today - he is definitely a second row at international level. Tshiunza flashed athleticism that no other forwards in Wales have in his two cameos, excited to see him develop.

Wainwright, Jenkins and Basham all had good autumns individually. But not sure they work together. Need a bit more bulk. Jenkins is a fabulous player - hope he can stay fit.

Centre is a real worry. JD2 has not been on it for a while - Williams is pretty limited and Halaholo + Tomkins are probably the best attacking threats, but defensively it’s a rollercoaster!

Some real positives though are that the back row did put their hands up. Not sure the combos worked but each guy which played did well if you see my meaning. Also thought Sheedy showed some real promise.

Trying not to be sensitive as a moderator here, but when people are popping in to solely wind up and not contributing otherwise, I’m just going to revert to being a mod than try and “banter” back.

Clearly friendly or banter filled warnings aren’t enough.

RiscaGame wrote:Trying not to be sensitive as a moderator here, but when people are popping in to solely wind up and not contributing otherwise, I’m just going to revert to being a mod than try and “banter” back.

Clearly friendly or banter filled warnings aren’t enough.

I hope I'm in the section of I'll criticise crap play decisions etc and be fair. Though I feel I'm.pushing it with my comments on Youngs, Lawes and Daly recently.

You’re fine. There has been one poster, who has behaved the same over the past two weekends.

Tried leaving it as me being sensitive and so didn’t mod it. When other posters get bothered, then it’s not a me problem.

Wales have plenty of talented players but something's not quite clicking in their performances for me so I guess that's the coaching? I don't know much about him to be honest but Pivac seems to get a lot of stick on here so who could be a good replacement and is it too close to the WC to change him now?

Guess Pivac’s hands are slightly tied, as he has an unbalanced backrow, but we don’t really have an 8 without Faletau. Centres, I wish we could’ve had Halaholo available first game and have seen maybe what would be his first choice centres. We’ve been called lucky a lot, but suffered a lot of injuries, even if they’re just niggles where people can’t train. One example would be Priestland, who I’m sure Pivac would’ve liked to have seen more after NZ.

I also think Pivac has unnecessarily flogged some players. Elias is one. Beard was another, until he got hurt today. They have both had a lot of minutes really. He also wanted to play Owens today, when that should never have been an option. He should never have rushed back Dee for today, after a neck injury (in my opinion). I’m sure there are other examples.

As an aside, I’ll be interested to see if we jump in the rankings after that. Maybe not immediately, but 9th beating 5th must be a few points, even if at home?

Heaf wrote:Wales have plenty of talented players but something's not quite clicking in their performances for me so I guess that's the coaching?  I don't know much about him to be honest but Pivac seems to get a lot of stick on here so who could be a good replacement and is it too close to the WC to change him now?

It’s definitely not clicking. Just the backs moves seem so one dimensional. Like, stretched out on a flat line with no options around them. They’ve had long enough under Pivac to learn any new systems or plays. 2 years now. I’m not one for knee jerk stuff but he’s not winning me over currently.

RiscaGame wrote:Guess Pivac’s hands are slightly tied, as he has an unbalanced backrow, but we don’t really have an 8 without Faletau. Centres, I wish we could’ve had Halaholo available first game and have seen maybe what would be his first choice centres. We’ve been called lucky a lot, but suffered a lot of injuries, even if they’re just niggles where people can’t train. One example would be Priestland, who I’m sure Pivac would’ve liked to have seen more after NZ.

I also think Pivac has unnecessarily flogged some players. Elias is one. Beard was another, until he got hurt today. They have both had a lot of minutes really. He also wanted to play Owens today, when that should never have been an option. He should never have rushed back Dee for today, after a neck injury (in my opinion). I’m sure there are other examples.

As an aside, I’ll be interested to see if we jump in the rankings after that. Maybe not immediately, but 9th beating 5th must be a few points, even if at home?

I think it depends on Ireland beating Argentina tomorrow?

Really good game goe the neutral.

Was very surprised Gareth Thomas didn't get a red card, as he clearly struck the Oz players head at speed, but the ref then allowed mitigation where he didn't with the Oz red early in the game.

Phil wrote:Really good game goe the neutral.

Was very surprised Gareth Thomas didn't get a red card, as he clearly struck the Oz players head at speed, but the ref then allowed mitigation where he didn't with the Oz red early in the game.

Not sure what the mitigation for Gareth Thomas would have been. However, there could be absolutely no mitigation for the Oz red card: a head shot on a 6’8” player who was not dipping or falling! What could you say to mitigate that?! I’m pretty certain it wasn’t deliberate (which in itself is not mitigation), just really poor technique. But if we want to eradicate these things to try to reduce head injuries then the sanction needs to be red card. The Oz player’s action has put a guy out of rugby for a few weeks at least. If we don’t want our sport completely ruined by the need to ban tackling altogether (think lawsuits by former players, parents not letting kids play, etc - World Rugby may end up taking the nuclear option) then we need a strong deterrent.

There is clear work to be done, but having the knack of winning tight games is certainly a good thing to have. These 4 games have exposed some players to the international environment, which will only stand them in good stead going forwards. The 6N is going to be one hell of a close competition!

The Oracle wrote:

Phil wrote:Really good game goe the neutral.

Was very surprised Gareth Thomas didn't get a red card, as he clearly struck the Oz players head at speed, but the ref then allowed mitigation where he didn't with the Oz red early in the game.

Not sure what the mitigation for Gareth Thomas would have been. However, there could be absolutely no mitigation for the Oz red card: a head shot on a 6’8” player who was not dipping or falling! What could you say to mitigate that?! I’m pretty certain it wasn’t deliberate (which in itself is not mitigation), just really poor technique. But if we want to eradicate these things to try to reduce head injuries then the sanction needs to be red card. The Oz player’s action has put a guy out of rugby for a few weeks at least. If we don’t want our sport completely ruined by the need to ban tackling altogether (think lawsuits by former players, parents not letting kids play, etc - World Rugby may end up taking the nuclear option) then we need a strong deterrent.

Haven't seen the incident but the wallaby tackle discipline was terrible against England last week so I am not surprised they got caught out this week.

Before I comment on this ugly disaster, can someone explain the Tompkins tap down? I didn’t think you could knock it backwards, and expected Aus to get the penalty. Adamson was pretty poor tbh, Aussie discipline was bad too so I don’t reckon they can have too many complaints.

mikey_dragon wrote:Before I comment on this ugly disaster, can someone explain the Tompkins tap down? I didn’t think you could knock it backwards, and expected Aus to get the penalty. Adamson was pretty poor tbh, Aussie discipline was bad too so I don’t reckon they can have too many complaints.

Think it's just because you don't see it that often from a pass as physics normally means you're hitting the ball forward. Tomkins caught it as he was flailing his arm backwards so luckily it goes back towards his own tryline. Incredibly lucky as it may have been judged to be a break by Aus and then he's looking at a yellow. But you are allowed to slap the ball backwards (just not deliberately out of play); think the amount of times you see it at kick offs or Garryowens. All perfectly legal...but very very lucky! And this ladies and gentlemen is why you play to the whistle.

Did I say he was lucky?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Before I comment on this ugly disaster, can someone explain the Tompkins tap down? I didn’t think you could knock it backwards, and expected Aus to get the penalty. Adamson was pretty poor tbh, Aussie discipline was bad too so I don’t reckon they can have too many complaints.

Think it's just because you don't see it that often from a pass as physics normally means you're hitting the ball forward. Tomkins caught it as he was flailing his arm backwards so luckily it goes back towards his own tryline. Incredibly lucky as it may have been judged to be a break by Aus and then he's looking at a yellow. But you are allowed to slap the ball backwards (just not deliberately out of play); think the amount of times you see it at kick offs or Garryowens. All perfectly legal...but very very lucky! And this ladies and gentlemen is why you play to the whistle.

Did I say he was lucky?

I admit I have only seen one angle and it was impossible to tell if the ball had gone backward or forwards. Was very odd and we have had plenty of penalties and worse from slapping the ball down or failed attempts to catch it.

Definitely went backwards lost.

Well that’s fair enough then. Yes, don’t think I’ve seen one like that before but have seen plenty of tap backs from kick-offs.

chris_501 wrote:There is clear work to be done, but having the knack of winning tight games is certainly a good thing to have. These 4 games have exposed some players to the international environment, which will only stand them in good stead going forwards. The 6N is going to be one hell of a close competition!

Close completion for who? Certainly not Wales who aren’t anywhere near England, France and Ireland. I do sometimes wonder if you’re watching the same game as everyone else…

mikey_dragon wrote:

chris_501 wrote:There is clear work to be done, but having the knack of winning tight games is certainly a good thing to have. These 4 games have exposed some players to the international environment, which will only stand them in good stead going forwards. The 6N is going to be one hell of a close competition!

Close completion for who? Certainly not Wales who aren’t anywhere near England, France and Ireland. I do sometimes wonder if you’re watching the same game as everyone else…

Because the northern hemisphere teams struggle to consistently beat Wales. I appreciate we are opposites in our view of this Welsh team, one of us is a glass half full kind of guy whilst the other wants someone sacked for emptying half of their milk, but while you consistently say Wales will win the wooden spoon, or lose all 4 AI games, they continue to get results.

Up until 2017 we had 1 win in 18 against Australia, and a result like we had at the weekend would be celebrated. I like the idea that we will consistently top the world rankings, but I’m also realistic and choose to enjoy the wins.

chris_501 wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

chris_501 wrote:There is clear work to be done, but having the knack of winning tight games is certainly a good thing to have. These 4 games have exposed some players to the international environment, which will only stand them in good stead going forwards. The 6N is going to be one hell of a close competition!

Close completion for who? Certainly not Wales who aren’t anywhere near England, France and Ireland. I do sometimes wonder if you’re watching the same game as everyone else…

Because the northern hemisphere teams struggle to consistently beat Wales. I appreciate we are opposites in our view of this Welsh team, one of us is a glass half full kind of guy whilst the other wants someone sacked for emptying half of their milk, but while you consistently say Wales will win the wooden spoon, or lose all 4 AI games, they continue to get results.

Up until 2017 we had 1 win in 18 against Australia, and a result like we had at the weekend would be celebrated. I like the idea that we will consistently top the world rankings, but I’m also realistic and choose to enjoy the wins.

Said this in during the match but is it a bit difficult to actually say where Wales are? There's been a number of matches where you've played a good chunk against 14 men. The reds have been reds and you play to the rules etc and if you lack discipline you put yourself at risk but...is Pivac doing a good job?

I think for me, this Autumn has showed we need J.Williams at 12 & North at 13, these are now the only two players who are solid enough defensively & offer a good threat going forward. What we really need is multiple players running off the 10 as we are so easy to defend against.

Yes we won two games against teams who had red cards but that is the other sides fault not ours.

There are areas where I don't think we are as strong, namely scrum and the speed in which players get up and back into the defensive line after tackles. Shaun Edwards was always going to be a huge miss, and his ability to squeeze everything defensively out of his players was incredible, but then the whole of Wales' gameplan under Gatland was to maximise those two areas.

The fact we have 5 wins against tier one nations this calendar year pleases me, I would much rather keep trying to build from a position of relative strength than from the depths of despair.

The North of the 6N could be incredibly key to how we play, he's our version of Tuilagi and it's in the centres where I really feel we've missed strength in continuity. Mind you, in the Gatland era it was a relatively easy gig, Henson and Shanklin, followed by Roberts and JD2.

I’m not sure what’s hard to understand about most of Pivac’s wins coming against teams where the opposition had a red card - and Aus even out scored us on tries, never mind mentioning the set piece and collisions - we’ve been second best there against everyone. Something isn’t right with this coaching team and they’ve had over a season to fix it. We’re neither good in attack or defence and we’ve taken a sound beating from just about everyone since Pivac and his mates came in.

I’m not trying to wind anyone up with this, I’m just very concerned about the state of the game in Wales as a whole.