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Wales International: games, squads, tournaments, chat - 2021/22

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Post by The Oracle Sat 06 Nov 2021, 9:09 am

First topic message reminder :

A place to chat about everything ‘Wales’ going forward.

————————————————————————————————————————————————————————-

First up: South Africa 6th November 2021

Wales: Johnny McNicholl; Louis Rees-Zammit, Jonathan Davies (capt), Nick Tompkins, Josh Adams; Dan Biggar, Tomos Williams; Rhys Carre, Ryan Elias, Tomas Francis, Will Rowlands, Adam Beard, Ellis Jenkins, Taine Basham, Aaron Wainwright.

Replacements: Bradley Roberts, Wyn Jones, WillGriff John, Ben Carter, Seb Davies, Gareth Davies, Gareth Anscombe, Liam Williams.

South Africa: Damian Willemse; Jesse Kriel, Lukhanyo Am, Damian de Allende, Makazole Mapimpi; Handre Pollard, Herschel Jantjies; Ox Nche, Bongi Mbonambi, Trevor Nyakane, Eben Etzebeth, Lood De Jager, Siya Kolisi (capt), Kwagga Smith, Duane Vermeulen.

Replacements: Malcolm Marx, Steven Kitshoff, Vincent Koch, Franco Mostert, Jasper Wiese, Cobus Reinach, Elton Jantjies, Frans Steyn.


Last edited by The Oracle on Sat 06 Nov 2021, 9:15 am; edited 2 times in total
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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Jul 2022, 5:51 pm

AWJ got a YC, not sure why?

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Post by The Oracle Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:00 pm

Couldn’t cope watching it. Managed the first half, gone out on my bike for the 2nd half! Knew we’d let them back in!
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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:02 pm

BigGee wrote:AWJ got a YC, not sure why?

French ref.

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:03 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
BigGee wrote:AWJ got a YC, not sure why?

French ref.


Georgian I believe

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:03 pm

Another YC, Wales down to 12 now

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:05 pm

I don’t wanna complain too much but you know…

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:06 pm

Back to 13 now, that should help!

And they have scored, how did that happen!

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:07 pm

Biggar missed, I would have bet my mortgage on that

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:08 pm

Blimey that was a bad call by the Boks to kick it out

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:10 pm

A penalty to win the game!

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:12 pm

Heartbreak

Bad luck Wales, you deserved something from that game.

Boks, more than a bit lucky there, but I suspect they will be better next week

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:13 pm

BigGee wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
BigGee wrote:AWJ got a YC, not sure why?

French ref.


Georgian I believe

Just as bad, there should be an Erasmus-type review.

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Post by Old Man Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:13 pm

Well done Wales, said from the start Wales are more than thesum of their parts. Nienaber has a Poopie work to do, that was just terrible from the Springboks.

I hang my head in frustration and shame.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:13 pm

That was, simply put, a hell of a test match.

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Post by FerN Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:15 pm

That was close.  Well done Wales,  I really thought that this was Wales' one after that first half.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:16 pm

I don’t remember the first yellow, can’t agree with the next two yellow’s though. A lot of his calls were bad, for both teams at times.

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Post by Poorfour Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:16 pm

Great effort by Wales. The LRZ yellow was wrong in my opinion, and the Carre one was a touch harsh, but ultimately Biggar chose to pu his hand where the Boks could win an easy penalty and cost Wales a draw.
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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:17 pm

Well done South Africa. I just knew that we’d give possession back to you and you’d win. Been here a few times before!

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:17 pm

You gotta say, that was the best performance I have seen from Wales for a long time (Warburton has just claimed a moral victory!)

When SA came back into the game, you thought it was game over, but they came right back into it and may have won if Biggar had nailed that kick and they could have kept a few more players on the pitch

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Post by Duty281 Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:17 pm

Amazing test, South Africa just about recovering from their slow start, and Wales struggling with the altitude factor in the second half (as England struggled in 2018). Doubt Wales will get that close in tests two and three. but they deserve huge credit for running the world champions closer than many thought possible.

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Post by Yoda Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:21 pm

England fan in peace. Well played Wales, deserved to win and didn't get rub of green as the ref was very inexperienced and easily influenced imo. A couple of those yellows were only given because the sa were consistently appealing (making them the second most annoying team after England today). Lrz was particularly harshly treated.

Good effort though and something to be proud of, unlike us lot.

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Post by Rugby Fan Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:22 pm

Kicking the ball back: was that to try and get position for the win, or fear that the team couldn't hang around there any longer for the draw?

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Post by lostinwales Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:22 pm

So its a heroic 3 point loss for Wales and a dismal 2 point defeat for England

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Post by lostinwales Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:22 pm

So its a heroic 3 point loss for Wales and a dismal 2 point defeat for England

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Post by Yoda Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:24 pm

Old Man wrote:Well done Wales, said from the start Wales are more than thesum of their parts.  Nienaber has a Poopie work to do, that was just terrible from the Springboks.

I hang my head in frustration and shame.

Feel your pain but at least you won, my lot get the prize for "we don't know what we're doing."

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:28 pm

Faf did not have a good game today, kicking was pretty poor i thought.

You think he might be warming the pine next week Old Man?

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Post by Old Man Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:33 pm

BigGee wrote:Faf did not have a good game today, kicking was pretty poor i thought.

You think he might be warming the pine next week Old Man?

yes, Faf was pedantic at times, his execution was poor, his kicking was terrible, but so was Elton Jantjies. There was a complete disconnect between forwards and backs.


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Post by The Oracle Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:38 pm

Congrats Old Man and SA clap

Wales, FFS! Close a game out!
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Post by Old Man Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:47 pm

The Oracle wrote: Congrats Old Man and SA clap

Wales, FFS! Close a game out!

Thanks Oracle, but that was nothing more than a lucky escape. I thought Wales had the number of SA, they took the discipline a bit too far, but other than that they played a damn good game.

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Post by BigGee Sat 02 Jul 2022, 6:52 pm

Is Willemse the answer at FH, thought he played better than Jantjies, certainly kicked better

Is Pollard not fit?

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Post by protea438 Sat 02 Jul 2022, 7:03 pm

Old Man wrote:
The Oracle wrote: Congrats Old Man and SA clap

Wales, FFS! Close a game out!

Thanks Oracle, but that was nothing more than a lucky escape. I thought Wales had the number of SA, they took the discipline a bit too far, but other than that they played a damn good game.

Well Wales didnt play well enough or they would have scored more points than the Boks. The last quarter is the most cynical play I have seen by a team and people still have the audacity to question why they got all the yellows. Unbeleviable

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Post by Old Man Sat 02 Jul 2022, 7:05 pm

BigGee wrote:Is Willemse the answer at FH, thought he played better than Jantjies, certainly kicked better

Is Pollard not fit?

I am sure Pollard will be back next week, I think Nienaber's plan with Willemse is uitility back as he can play at 10 , 12 and 15.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 02 Jul 2022, 7:16 pm

First of all i would like to say that i did not see the game do not have sky sports. How eve i did listen to the game on bbc sport radio. And i have to say I AM GIUTTED for Wales.

Before the game started i thought Wales would get thrashed by the boks. but when Wales  brought the game to 29 point all and Biggar going for the conversion to win the game i was cheering YES theve done it.Then Biggar give away a penaltie in the last few seconVery bad luck Wales.

tIt sounded like a cracking game.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 02 Jul 2022, 7:33 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
BigGee wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:
BigGee wrote:AWJ got a YC, not sure why?

French ref.


Georgian I believe

Just as bad, there should be an Erasmus-type review.

I only saw bits of the game. He's not a ref scared of making decisions that will be unpopular. Generally reliable and consistent in most areas of the game, one of the refs coming through that I've seen a few times and rate highly.

Really good test match from two pretty equal looking teams. The draw would have probably been the fair result but Wales might be looking at their two leaders and the yellow cards they conceded, that didn't help the team. Pivac and Wales will just be thinking if they can tighten up a couple of areas things might go their way in the next test.

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Post by majesticimperialman Sat 02 Jul 2022, 9:16 pm

Being a generally none Wales supporting fan and given the fact that Wales only lost in the dying seconds of the game with Wales down to 12 men.
Firstly who would you select as MOM?

For me LRZ would of got my vote. But who did get MOM?

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Post by The Oracle Sun 03 Jul 2022, 8:11 am

Old Man wrote:
The Oracle wrote: Congrats Old Man and SA clap

Wales, FFS! Close a game out!

Thanks Oracle, but that was nothing more than a lucky escape. I thought Wales had the number of SA, they took the discipline a bit too far, but other than that they played a damn good game.

Thanks, and I guess you proved my pessimism wrong to a certain extent. Wales often have a close one on these multi game tours. Apart from when the tour is to NZ! My fear is that this was a reaction to the public and media criticism of the Italy loss. Wales have often got this real issue, psychology or something, where they bounce back from adversity and like mentioned before the game a bit of a two fingers up to the critics. But now that the media is singing their praises and calling them plucky heroes, etc………that’s when they’ll get back in their comfort zone and put in a few % less and we may not get as close in the next two games. Seen it lots before. Not sure how you fix that!
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Post by mikey_dragon Sun 03 Jul 2022, 9:51 am

Lydiate and Hardy weren’t good. Lydiate especially looked a bit off the pace, not sure why he was interviewed at the end? Reffell was good though, not bad on your debut.

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Post by The Oracle Sun 03 Jul 2022, 11:21 am

Yes some good performances. Reffell on debut. LRZ took his tries well although didn’t need to do a great deal for them. Rowlands put in a good show again (that sealing off penalty in front of his owns posts not good though).

Thought the scrum was better than I feared but still gave away scrum penalties.

The main area we still lack is ball carriers to get over the gainline. Some of the SA guys just manage to get up such a head of steam and top speed in such a short distance and then blast though and well over the gainline. While most of ours were just stopped on contact. I watched Gareth Thomas the prop a couple of times just sort of run up to contact, try some sort of weak forearm fend, and then just flop to the ground. No ground made. Easy to defend. Would be great if we can find a couple of guys who can just cannonball straight into the opposition defence and skittle people out the way. We don’t seem to have anyone like that though. SA has them in spades!
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Post by George Carlin Sun 03 Jul 2022, 11:42 am

Was absolutely gutted for Wales not to have closed that out.

It would have gone down as one of the best wins of the pro era.

I didn't watch the whole game but what happened to discipline? Were all the cards and penalties just forced by pressure?
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Post by Old Man Sun 03 Jul 2022, 11:51 am

George Carlin wrote:Was absolutely gutted for Wales not to have closed that out.

It would have gone down as one of the best wins of the pro era.

I didn't watch the whole game but what happened to discipline? Were all the cards and penalties just forced by pressure?

It was down to pressure, but it was also just really ill discipline.

Biggar got carded for a deliberate knock down, there were a card for pulling down a maul twice, and one for Zammit for not allowing SA to play the ball when they broke the line and le Roux was tackled by Zammit just in front of the line, referee thought it was a deliberate professional foul.

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Post by The Oracle Sun 03 Jul 2022, 12:55 pm

So Biggar’s was a 2nd yellow card then? So he got red? Is he out of the next game then???

Rees-Zammit - he basically tackled, got up, jackaled and tried to turn over. He was the tackler and the only defender in the ruck. But probably didn’t show enough ‘air’ so was deemed not to have released. Read somewhere that coaches coach the tackler to clap when they get up and before going in for the jackal as that it obviously shows they have released. He should have done that and would have been fine!

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Post by The Oracle Sun 03 Jul 2022, 12:58 pm

Or did Biggar just get a penalty? I think the yellows were Biggar for not rolling early in the 2nd half, AWJ, Rees-Zammiy and Carre???
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Post by Old Man Sun 03 Jul 2022, 1:12 pm

Confusing with all the cards issued in the last ten minutes.

Biggar carded at 37 minutes
Alun Wynn Jones carded at 67 minutes
zammit carded at 74 minutes
carre carded at 75 minutes

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Post by RiscaGame Sun 03 Jul 2022, 1:59 pm

Yeah. Biggar’s yellow was for not rolling (harsh). AWJ offside and accumulation (agree), LRZ jackal (harsh) and Carre collapse maul (disagree as he was driven onto the floor, so maybe mistaken identity?).

There’s a guy on Twitter called Sam Larner, who is pretty sharp at analysis and he shows why LRZ was clear release.

I don’t think it matters much. Ultimately wales lost as they kicked a poor box away, with little time to go (same as Italy game). I see the point that when you’re not getting much off a ref, that you might be scared, but then you could surely box better and have a more effective chase. Otherwise you have to chance your arm and have carries. Even if you have a mass pod.

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Post by RiscaGame Sun 03 Jul 2022, 3:39 pm

That’s the Sam Larner post anyway.

https://twitter.com/samlstandsup/status/1543319333497180160?s=21&t=GqXwEOiBubPznC1FUtM-bQ

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 03 Jul 2022, 8:58 pm

The Oracle wrote:So Biggar’s was a 2nd yellow card then? So he got red? Is he out of the next game then???

Rees-Zammit - he basically tackled, got up, jackaled and tried to turn over. He was the tackler and the only defender in the ruck. But probably didn’t show enough ‘air’ so was deemed not to have released. Read somewhere that coaches coach the tackler to clap when they get up and before going in for the jackal as that it obviously shows they have released. He should have done that and would have been fine!
I thought LRZ was very unlucky with that pen. I'm not sure it was a foul or not. On the other hand, I think Biggar got his card more or less for being a jackass most of the game and an opportunity came about. And this comes from a Saints fan who has a lot of respect for Dan. But you have to admit some days he acts as if his shorts are a bit too tight.

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Post by RiscaGame Sun 03 Jul 2022, 9:53 pm

I get it about Dan Biggar being annoying, but how do you cope when it seems one sided reffing? His card was harsh, as I said. Four yellows to none. It’s weird for a team to go 18-3 up and be more penalised? I think I’ve been pretty balanced about the cards, as in AWJ and the driving maul one (albeit wrong guy), but it seems mad.

You can’t see highlighted online that a ref lost control, off both sides of supporters, without it being an inexperienced ref with no idea.

How does a ref like that get a big test? What’s his history?

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Post by Mr Fishpaste Sun 03 Jul 2022, 10:06 pm

RiscaGame wrote:I get it about Dan Biggar being annoying, but how do you cope when it seems one sided reffing? His card was harsh, as I said. Four yellows to none. It’s weird for a team to go 18-3 up and be more penalised? I think I’ve been pretty balanced about the cards, as in AWJ and the driving maul one (albeit wrong guy), but it seems mad.

You can’t see highlighted online that a ref lost control, off both sides of supporters, without it being an inexperienced ref with no idea.

How does a ref like that get a big test? What’s his history?

I disagree about the Biggar card. SA were 10 metres from the try line, Biggar tackles De Klerk, and the next two players to arrive are both boks....and Biggar deliberately gets in between them and the ball and prevents De Klerk from placing it properly....he knew what he was doing. He was preventing a try by slowing the ball down until more Welsh players could arrive....cynical...deserved the card.

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Post by RiscaGame Sun 03 Jul 2022, 10:09 pm

Fair enough, obviously. It’s all opinions. I get how people allow themselves to be pinned in, but it wasn’t for me. I do accept I’m not always right, just more often than not Wink

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 03 Jul 2022, 10:10 pm

I agree the pen count is skewed in the Boks favour. But as I said, I think Biggar's yellow would likely have been just a pen if someone else. And, I still am not clear what LRZ did wrong. Was certainly not card worthy. I forget, who was the ref?

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