The v2 Forum
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

+4
Geordie
thebandwagonsociety
lostinwales
No 7&1/2
8 posters

Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 22 Nov 2021, 10:15 am

Feels like this is more a basic space filler on the BBC website but not seen any other article setting this out so far. Given you all know Slade and Lawes (blindside) aren't my first picks for the side I obviously don't agree with the winners section too much.

For me the guys who will be glowing today and into the 6Ns are by a distance first of all Steward. I can only really think of Itoje who has come into the side and made it look all so easy. I think the majority expected him to come in and look good in the air but boy he looked better than I thought he would. I can't remember even a high ball where he was even challenged. Looked assured in everything he did. Attacking wise was perhaps the most pleasing aspect of his play where he ran good lines and made really good decisions, nice passing and good to have a back with some size.

Rodd. Pretty much thrown into the team. For a 21 year old loosehead, well done. Generally held his own in the scrum granted with a bit of luck, got smashed a couple of times in the loose but hugely promising and I suspect in 2 years or so will be putting his hand up.

Quirke. Not too many minutes on the pitch but finally a scrum half putting his hand up immediately. Great pass, real quick and he'll be looking at starting after that pretty quickly. Do wonder what will happen when Randall is fit come th3 6Ns and if van Poortvliet continues to get more time with Leicester. Could be all change very shortly.

Smith. Do I need to type anything? Trying not to go too OTT so I'll just say I'm happy he's English!

Regarding the losers. I'll say in general the starting back row does not work for me at all bar strengthening out Lineout. Curry is absolutely wasted at 8. I'm counting down the days until Willis comes back. Dombrandt needs to start in February.

May. Can't remember when he payed as poorly against big teams. He's been our shining light even when the rest have been under par but it felt like those first parts of the SA game summed it up for him. With Malins looking brighter on the other wing it may add pressure on but the coaching team don't appear overly happy with the other younger options.

BBC:

'Freddie Steward

Steward, like fellow new face Marcus Smith, has impressed on his first top-level run of games for England
As he picked up the man-of-the-match award after the win over world champions South Africa, the Leicester full-back admitted that the last time England had played the Springboks he had been watching from a student bar. The 20-year-old seems set to take in the next decade of England Tests from far closer to the action.




At 6ft 5in even before take off, he ruled the skies under the high ball and joined the backline as a strong, pacey runner, crossing for tries against the Boks and Wallabies. Former England full-back Mike Brown revealed earlier this year that he had fallen out with Jones in 2019 when the England coach pigeon-holed him as a defensive player.

Even allowing for his being twisted inside out by Tonga's Telusa Veainu, there is no question that Steward has got game either side of the ball.

Courtney Lawes

Lawes greets former Northampton team-mate and another England captain Dylan Hartley after the Tonga game
Joe Marler described Lawes as "the people's captain" after the win over South Africa and, in the absence of the injured Owen Farrell, the 32-year-old roused the rabble to great effect.

His leadership is based on deeds rather than words and his all-action performances have been worth any amount of rhetoric.

His lung-busting last-ditch tackle to keep Tonga try-less was one of the plays of the series, but he got through a mountain of less eye-catching work, felling lumber around the fringes, and trucking up ball as a much-improved carrying option.

Victory over South Africa was a particularly pleasing way to end his series after being one of the few tourists to impress for the Lions in the summer. His own belief that his best is still to come might be more than a standard soundbite.

Henry Slade

Slade played a key role in two of England's three tries against the Springboks
If incoming fly-half Marcus Smith is the poster boy for England's new readiness to run the ball, Henry Slade might be the backline incumbent to benefit most.

Against South Africa, the 28-year-old was making his 43rd appearance for England. It might well have been his best yet.

Without the injured Owen Farrell and, for much of the match the also injured Manu Tuilagi, he marshalled the backline superbly.

His bullwhip pass opened the way for Tuilagi's opening try and a cloak-and-dagger pop to Joe Marchant sparked Raffi Quirke's second-half score.

His ghosting lines and clever distribution help oil the wheels of this more mobile England machine.

Adam Radwan

Radwan scored a hat-trick of tries in a debut rout of Canada in the summer
The Newcastle flier's scorching pace make him a fans' favourite. The headline stats are pretty eye-catching as well. He scored a hat-trick on debut against Canada and crossed after just three minutes against Tonga.

But Jones, who admitted he thought that the 23-year-old was still short of Test standard in the first few days after his summer call-up, appears to have his reservations.

He instead chose to pick Tuilagi and Marchant, both more normally centres, on the wing against Australia and South Africa, with Max Malins' versatility, kicking and backfield know-how preferred on the bench.

Maverick Jones seems to feel the need for more than raw speed.

Mako Vunipola

Vunipola, whose Saracens contract is up at the end of the season, has been linked with a move to France that would effectively put him out of England contention
Even when illness and injury reduced England to back-up front-row options in the final week of the autumn, the call for Vunipola never came. The 30-year-old, previously one of the pillars of the team's set-piece, seems to have been designated as yesterday's man with Bevan Rodd's energy overcoming any doubts about the Sale man's inexperience.

Vunipola's Saracens team-mate Jamie George was called up after initially being left out of the autumn squad. But fellow outcasts George Ford, Vunipola's brother Billy and Mako himself will have seen how abruptly the careers of Brown, Danny Care and others have ended. The comeback trail can be hard to find under Jones.

Ben Youngs

Youngs is just two England caps behind men's all-time leader Jason Leonard
An ever-present during the autumn, but even 112-cap Ben Youngs is not insulated against the winds of change. The 32-year-old's game doesn't have the snipe and snap of the past. His kicking has been wayward.

Harry Randall's injury denied the Bristol scrum-half the chance to dislodge Youngs this autumn, but Quirke made his case in a cameo against South Africa with a smart support line for the winning try. Would Youngs have been as well placed to turn Joe Marchant's break into seven telling points?'

No 7&1/2

Posts : 27412
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by lostinwales Mon 22 Nov 2021, 10:21 am

I am cautious about giving up on May too soon. There were a couple of howlers vs SA and its difficult for a wing in that they may not get the ball in their hands very often. He is however very much the old head in the back 3 and I think his covering behind (allowing Steward to get into the line) and general positioning have been very important factors in allowing the young guys to get forward.

So he's not gone yet, but the performance of Malins in particular won't help. (He looks very comfortable, and that catch and kick at full speed was pretty good)

lostinwales
lostinwales
lostinwales

Posts : 12356
Join date : 2011-06-09
Location : Out of Wales :)

Geordie likes this post

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon 22 Nov 2021, 10:27 am

I wouldn't be too harsh on Lawes. Haven't seen many northampton matches in the last year or so, but from these autumn internationals and the lions matches, I think Lawes has really improved in both a leadership and quality of personal performance. His game management has felt pretty good and he appeared to be leading that pack. Any captain decisions, when the ref was asking, from memory were answered with a cool head and it didn't feel like any times that there was indecision (again, just from memory). He just needs to build on 'being in the refs' ear. The ref's has already made a decision when they talk to the captain, so he needs to spend that time planting the seed for what comes next rather than trying to argue the calls that have already been made.

thebandwagonsociety

Posts : 2761
Join date : 2011-06-02

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by Geordie Mon 22 Nov 2021, 12:14 pm

This backline in the 6n would give the opposition a bit to think about....

9 Youngs / Quirke
10 Smith
11 May
12 Slade
13 Marchant
14 Malins
15 Steward

lacks a "power option" but it'll be good for the moment until we can identify one.

Geordie

Posts : 26130
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by Poorfour Mon 22 Nov 2021, 12:48 pm

I think something does need to be written about Smith.

We haven't seen the full array of fireworks from his Quins game at International level yet, and he's been overshadowed on the highlights reel by Steward and Slade. But his arrival has coincided with a rejuvenation of England's attack, and I think a lot of that is down to Smith's presence.

Will Greenwood wrote a great piece some years ago about how Brian O'Driscoll's pace and acceleration in midfield unsettled defences and created openings elsewhere. I think Smith is having the same impact - defences have to keep an eye on what he might do, even if he's off the ball, and that creates opportunity for other players.

You can see it in the build up to Quirke's try - Smith is running around behind his centres by the time Slade gets the ball and waving his arms as if he wants it. Does it create a moment's hesitation from the Boks? You wouldn't normally expect them to be broken so easily.

Maybe teams will work out how to close him down, but it's going to be hard to do as long as England give him multiple targets for where to put the ball because he is good at very quickly selecting the best one.
Poorfour
Poorfour

Posts : 5279
Join date : 2011-10-01

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by WELL-PAST-IT Mon 22 Nov 2021, 1:23 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:I wouldn't be too harsh on Lawes.  Haven't seen many northampton matches in the last year or so, but from these autumn internationals and the lions matches, I think Lawes has really improved in both a leadership and quality of personal performance.  His game management has felt pretty good and he appeared to be leading that pack. Any captain decisions, when the ref was asking, from memory were answered with a cool head and it didn't feel like any times that there was indecision (again, just from memory). He just needs to build on 'being in the refs' ear. The ref's has already made a decision when they talk to the captain, so he needs to spend that time planting the seed for what comes next rather than trying to argue the calls that have already been made.

Lawes has been in the top two or three players in the side in every game this Autumn, his work rate is incredible, he has shown that if Sinckler can have soft hands, I can have softer ones, he has probably been our best heavy traffic carrier and has flattened anything that moved around the base of the breakdown as well as some outstanding, (one in particular incredible) tackling in midfield and covering back.

He has been the player of the series for me. Seems like we have another captain as well, no more dependency on Farrell.
WELL-PAST-IT
WELL-PAST-IT

Posts : 3401
Join date : 2011-06-01

lostinwales likes this post

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 22 Nov 2021, 1:32 pm

We just need to find an 8 and a flanker with bigger work rates than Curry and Underhill to cover the breakdown.

Forgot to mention Blamire in the first post too. Looked very good overall.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 27412
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by Cumbrian Mon 22 Nov 2021, 1:47 pm

Lawes is an interesting one. At 32 you'd be thinking that his days in the England squad were slipping away, yet he looks so fit and strong that I could easily see him going for another three years/four years if he is managed well. He's changed his game and looks better for it.
Cumbrian
Cumbrian

Posts : 4922
Join date : 2011-01-28
Age : 39
Location : Bath

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by BigTrevsbigmac Mon 22 Nov 2021, 1:48 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:We just need to find an 8 and a flanker with bigger work rates than Curry and Underhill to cover the breakdown.

Forgot to mention Blamire in the first post too. Looked very good overall.

Well with my Wasps blinkered eyes on I would like to see Tom Willis given a chance at 8 as he ticks all those boxes.
Also Alfie Barbeary is finally back in contention to play this Friday against Glaws. It will be interesting to see where he plays.

BigTrevsbigmac

Posts : 3331
Join date : 2011-05-15

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by WELL-PAST-IT Mon 22 Nov 2021, 1:51 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:We just need to find an 8 and a flanker with bigger work rates than Curry and Underhill to cover the breakdown.

Forgot to mention Blamire in the first post too. Looked very good overall.

Tom Willis, has looked has looked so good when I have seen him, bit of a cross between Jack and Alex Dombrandt. Bigger than Jack but smaller than Alex but with the skills of both.
WELL-PAST-IT
WELL-PAST-IT

Posts : 3401
Join date : 2011-06-01

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 22 Nov 2021, 1:56 pm

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:We just need to find an 8 and a flanker with bigger work rates than Curry and Underhill to cover the breakdown.

Forgot to mention Blamire in the first post too. Looked very good overall.

Well with my Wasps blinkered eyes on I would like to see Tom Willis given a chance at 8 as he ticks all those boxes.
Also Alfie Barbeary is finally back in contention to play this Friday against Glaws. It will be interesting to see where he plays.

Willis has looked better and better. Barbeay, yes, looks another exceptional player. Needs that run of games now and for it to be decided if thats as a 2, 6 or 8. I hear he's weeks away from coming back?

No 7&1/2

Posts : 27412
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by Geordie Mon 22 Nov 2021, 1:57 pm

Willis v Dombrandt is the battle for 8 imo.
I just dont think Chick will force himself into that battle...

Jack Willis will definitely cause selection problems if he comes back firing...

Tom Curry is going nowhere. Hes sheer class...just not at 8 please.

Underhill hasnt quite hit the heights this AI...but hes a quality physical operator. Maybe Bath issues having an effect.

Dont forget George Martin (20 yo, 6'6) and Ted Hill (22yo, 6'5)


Last edited by GeordieFalcon on Mon 22 Nov 2021, 1:58 pm; edited 1 time in total

Geordie

Posts : 26130
Join date : 2011-03-31
Location : Newcastle

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by No 7&1/2 Mon 22 Nov 2021, 1:58 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:We just need to find an 8 and a flanker with bigger work rates than Curry and Underhill to cover the breakdown.

Forgot to mention Blamire in the first post too. Looked very good overall.

Tom Willis, has looked has looked so good when I have seen him, bit of a cross between Jack and Alex Dombrandt. Bigger than Jack but smaller than Alex but with the skills of both.

I still look at Dombrandt and think his offloading game is absolutely top drawer. Real point of difference to anyone else thats English.

No 7&1/2

Posts : 27412
Join date : 2012-10-20

Back to top Go down

English Winners and Losers according to the BBC Empty Re: English Winners and Losers according to the BBC

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum