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Prem - Round 24

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Heaf
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Post by Geordie Thu 28 Apr 2022, 1:09 pm

Friday
Saints v Quins
Sharks v Falcons

Saturday
Gloucester v Bath
Tigers v Bears
Worcester v Saracens

Sunday
Irish v Wasps

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Post by Geordie Thu 28 Apr 2022, 1:11 pm

Newcastle Falcons team to face Sale Sharks (Friday, 7.45pm, AJ Bell Stadium)

15 Alex Tait,
14 Adam Radwan,
13 Ben Stevenson,
12 Matias Orlando,
11 Mateo Carreras,
10 Joel Hodgson,
9 Cameron Nordli-Kelemeti;

1 Trevor Davison,
2 George McGuigan,
3 Richard Palframan,
4 Philip van der Walt,
5 Sean Robinson,
6 Gary Graham,
7 Will Welch (captain),
8 Callum Chick.

Replacements: 16 Jamie Blamire, 17 Kyle Cooper, 18 Mark Tampin, 19 George Merrick, 20 Carl Fearns, 21 James Blackett, 22 Will Haydon-Wood, 23 Luther Burrell.

Sale Sharks:
15 Luke James,
14 Tom Roebuck,
13 Sam James,
12 Rohan Janse van Rensburg,
11 Jack Metcalf,
10 Robert du Preez,
9 Faf de Klerk (captain);

1 Bevan Rodd,
2 Akker van der Merwe,
3 Nick Schonert,
4 Cobus Wiese,
5 JP du Preez,
6 Jean-Luc du Preez,
7 Ben Curry,
8 Daniel du Preez.

Replacements: 16 Ewan Ashman, 17 Simon McIntyre, 18 Joe Jones, 19 Matt Postlethwaite, 20 Tom Curry, 21 Gus Warr, 22 Connor Doherty, 23 Simon Hammersley.

Referee: Jack Makepeace.

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Post by doctor_grey Thu 28 Apr 2022, 7:38 pm

 SAINTS  QUINS
 NAME  NAME
15George Furbank, FB 15Huw Jones, FB
14Matt Proctor, W 14Louis Lynagh, W
13Fraser Dingwall, C 13Joe Marchant, C
12Rory Hutchinson, C 12Andre Esterhuizen, C
11Tommy Freeman, W 11Cadan Murley, W
10James Grayson, FH 10Marcus Smith, FH
9Alex Mitchell, SH 9Danny Care, SH
1Emmanuel Iyogun, P 1Simon Kerrod, P
2Mike Haywood, H 2Jack Walker, H
3Conor Carey, P 3Wilco Louw, P
4Alex Coles, L 4Matt Symons, L
5Api Ratuniyarawa, L 5Hugh Tizard, L
6Courtney Lawes, FL 6Stephan Lewies, FL
7Lewis Ludlam, FL 7Tom Lawday, FL
8Juarno Augustus, N8 8Alex Dombrandt, N8
 REPLACEMENTS  REPLACEMENTS
16James Fish, R 16Jack Musk, R
17Alex Waller, R 17Santiago Garcia Botta, R
18Paul Hill, R 18Will Collier, R
19Alex Moon, R 19James Chisholm, R
20Aaron Hinkley, R 20Luke Wallace, R
21Tom James, R 21Lewis Gjaltema, R
22Piers Francis, R 22Tommaso Allan, R
23Ollie Sleightholme, R 23Nick David, R

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Post by Poorfour Thu 28 Apr 2022, 9:13 pm

Amazed that Lawes is back playing again so soon after what sounds like a horrible injury.

The battle of the back rows will be interesting, but I think Quins probably have the edge in the tight five and at 10, but it’s a pretty close call.
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Post by king_carlos Fri 29 Apr 2022, 5:09 pm

15 Freddie Steward [50]
14 Chris Ashton [7]
13 Matías Moroni [30]
12 Guy Porter [39]
11 Harry Potter [36]
10 George Ford [123]
9 Ben Youngs [277]
1 Ellis Genge (c) [105]
2 Julián Montoya [23]
3 Dan Cole [284]
4 Harry Wells [150]
5 Calum Green [86]
6 Hanro Liebenberg (vc) [53]
7 Tommy Reffell [72]
8 Jasper Wiese [39]

REPLACEMENTS
16 Charlie Clare [47]
17 James Whitcombe [21]
18 Joe Heyes [96]
19 Eli Snyman [19]
20 Olly Robinson [6]
21 Richard Wigglesworth [33]
22 Freddie Burns [97]
23 Nemani Nadolo [32]

Given injuries to Dan Kelly, George Martin and Marco van Staden along with Ollie Chessum's ban this is about as close to full strength as Tigers can name. JvP would be involved ahead of Wigglesworth as well but he played on Tuesday.

Brilliant to see Montoya fit and playing. Having him available for the KO games is so important for Tigers. The consistency of his performances is outstanding. Most players capable of his highs also have quiet games. Montoya practically hasn't whenever he's played this season. If he's on the pitch he's been brilliant basically!

I'm glad Borthwick has gone for Porter at 12 in Kelly's absence. Matt Scott has looked better at 13 for Tigers and struggled at 12 against Quins, though to be fair he hasn't played much lately and was up against Esterhuizen. Kelly making yards in midfield has been vital this season though, Porter's strength in contact is more similar to that than Scott even if he hasn't got the same experience at 12 or in big games.

Martin and van Staden are rumoured to be in contact training but haven't played again yet. I was really hoping we might see one of them on the bench here to bolster the back row a bit for the Leinster QF next weekend.

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Post by Poorfour Fri 29 Apr 2022, 5:19 pm

Slightly surprised Tigers would wheel out the big guns for Bristol rather than Quins, but I guess Borthwick has done his calculations and knows what he's aiming for.
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Post by king_carlos Fri 29 Apr 2022, 5:30 pm

Poorfour wrote:Slightly surprised Tigers would wheel out the big guns for Bristol rather than Quins, but I guess Borthwick has done his calculations and knows what he's aiming for.

We've largely been as close to full strength as possible at home but rotated as needed away all season.

Genge on the bench with van Wyk starting was the only Quins selection that really surprised me. van Wyk isn't a strong scrummager and Collier is very good there. The result was unsurprising in an area Tigers are usually strong.

Jansen and Robinson starting was obviously far from ideal but Wiese and Reffell have been putting in a lot of minutes with Martin and van Staden injured so it wasn't a surprise to see back row rotation on the road. Similar with Wells being on the bench and Steward missing out. They've just played a lot of rugby this season and if Tigers want to go deep in the KOs there's more to come.

I'd love to see a nearly full strength Tigers vs full strength Quins in the playoffs. Sides with such different styles like that tend to produce engrossing rugby, especially in important games. That variety is why I love the sport.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 29 Apr 2022, 7:15 pm

Poorfour wrote:Slightly surprised Tigers would wheel out the big guns for Bristol rather than Quins, but I guess Borthwick has done his calculations and knows what he's aiming for.

I think Borthwick is aiming for the undefeated league season at home. Hopefully undefeated at home full stop but that might be difficult with Leinster rocking up in Europe. Borthwick does like to make the point of doing the fans proud so as KC says tends to name his strongest teams for home games and then rotate away. Welford Road used to be a fortress and some teams would be beaten before they arrived just on reputation, that reputation took a hammering but Borthers seems to want to rebuild it.

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Post by Heaf Fri 29 Apr 2022, 8:43 pm

Saints looking good for their lead - as long as they don't run out of players ...

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 29 Apr 2022, 9:05 pm

Heaf wrote:Saints looking good for their lead - as long as they don't run out of players ...

I dunno they look on the ropes at the start of the second half. Saints look cream crackered. They've had to use half the bench already as well.

Very entertaining game so far.

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Post by Heaf Fri 29 Apr 2022, 9:37 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Heaf wrote:Saints looking good for their lead - as long as they don't run out of players ...

I dunno they look on the ropes at the start of the second half. Saints look cream crackered. They've had to use half the bench already as well.

Very entertaining game so far.

Yep - but I said that at half-time Very Happy

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Post by Duty281 Fri 29 Apr 2022, 9:49 pm

Another great game decided by an abysmal refereeing call.

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Post by Heaf Fri 29 Apr 2022, 9:50 pm

Well they just about pulled it off in the end ... Quins looked a bit flat tonight

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Post by Heaf Fri 29 Apr 2022, 9:51 pm

What was the last pen for?

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Post by Poorfour Fri 29 Apr 2022, 9:51 pm

Duty281 wrote:Another great game decided by an abysmal refereeing call.

Two abysmal calls, actually. Carley allowed Saints to play with 15 men for the whole of the rest of the game after they went to uncontested scrums.
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Post by Poorfour Fri 29 Apr 2022, 9:53 pm

Heaf wrote:What was the last pen for?

No clear release. For a player who wasn’t involved in the tackle: the Saints player was already on the ground (i.e. tackle completed) before Wallace went for the ball. Absolutely terrible call in real time and it was even worse on the replay.
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Post by Duty281 Fri 29 Apr 2022, 9:55 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Heaf wrote:What was the last pen for?

No clear release. For a player who wasn’t involved in the tackle: the Saints player was already on the ground (i.e. tackle completed) before Wallace went for the ball. Absolutely terrible call in real time and it was even worse on the replay.

Added to which, Northampton played on, gained about 20-30 metres and Carley didn't call advantage over.

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 29 Apr 2022, 10:01 pm

What the hell did I just see?

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Post by Poorfour Fri 29 Apr 2022, 10:06 pm

doctor_grey wrote:What the hell did I just see?

A really fun game of rugby marred by a ref who lost the plot at the end.
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Post by Heaf Fri 29 Apr 2022, 10:15 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Another great game decided by an abysmal refereeing call.

Two abysmal calls, actually. Carley allowed Saints to play with 15 men for the whole of the rest of the game after they went to uncontested scrums.

I believe as it was after an HIA then 15 is correct?

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Post by king_carlos Fri 29 Apr 2022, 10:21 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Poorfour wrote:Slightly surprised Tigers would wheel out the big guns for Bristol rather than Quins, but I guess Borthwick has done his calculations and knows what he's aiming for.

I think Borthwick is aiming for the undefeated league season at home. Hopefully undefeated at home full stop but that might be difficult with Leinster rocking up in Europe. Borthwick does like to make the point of doing the fans proud so as KC says tends to name his strongest teams for home games and then rotate away. Welford Road used to be a fortress and some teams would be beaten before they arrived just on reputation, that reputation took a hammering but Borthers seems to want to rebuild it.

The teams for that will be very interesting. A few big uncertainties at present. For Tigers can van Staden and/or Martin be ready for the bench. For Leinster they might be missing Ryan and Baird which are two huge blows when put together. That's a top international second row pairing potentially missing.

It's a brutal draw but seeing Montoya back on the team sheet for this weekend, rumours of van Staden and Martin being back in contact training have buoyed me a bit.

Leinster are certainly still favourites even coming to Welford Road as it is largely the Ireland side with Ala'alatoa and some fantastic young talents sprinkled in for good measure. They are a brilliant team. If Tigers can keep those playing this weekend fit for the QF and get van Staden and/or Martin back for bench impact then I'll be feeling a bit less pessimistic though.

An important match with Bristol to negotiate first however!

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Post by Poorfour Fri 29 Apr 2022, 11:34 pm

Heaf wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Another great game decided by an abysmal refereeing call.

Two abysmal calls, actually. Carley allowed Saints to play with 15 men for the whole of the rest of the game after they went to uncontested scrums.

I believe as it was after an HIA then 15 is correct?

I thought that cover was allowed during the HIA, but once it becomes permanent the uncontested scrum rules apply
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Apr 2022, 11:11 am

https://www.world.rugby/the-game/laws/guidelines/11#:~:text=If%20the%20team%20cannot%20field,nominated%20to%20leave%20the%20field.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 30 Apr 2022, 11:46 am

I don't like uncontested scrums, but yesterday there was no alternative. Hoping everyone is medically clear going forwards and their withdrawals were cautionary. But that just drove the nut-cutting game excitement even higher.

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Post by Heaf Sat 30 Apr 2022, 12:04 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Heaf wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Another great game decided by an abysmal refereeing call.

Two abysmal calls, actually. Carley allowed Saints to play with 15 men for the whole of the rest of the game after they went to uncontested scrums.

I believe as it was after an HIA then 15 is correct?

I thought that cover was allowed during the HIA, but once it becomes permanent the uncontested scrum rules apply

I'm not sure the link 7.5 posted covers what happens if the HIA is failed but somewhere else I found it says if the HIA replacement becomes permanent after 12 mins the team continues with 15 players.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 30 Apr 2022, 12:13 pm

Heaf wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Heaf wrote:
Poorfour wrote:
Duty281 wrote:Another great game decided by an abysmal refereeing call.

Two abysmal calls, actually. Carley allowed Saints to play with 15 men for the whole of the rest of the game after they went to uncontested scrums.

I believe as it was after an HIA then 15 is correct?

I thought that cover was allowed during the HIA, but once it becomes permanent the uncontested scrum rules apply

I'm not sure the link 7.5 posted covers what happens if the HIA is failed but somewhere else I found it says if the HIA replacement becomes permanent after 12 mins the team continues with 15 players.
At least here in US the rule is interpreted as an HIA is not a voluntary withdrawal and the player can be replaced on the pitch both during the HIA and if the HIA is failed. That's the way I have been working with referees all spring.

By the way, I'm playing at 13:00 my time (one o'clock in the afternoon for less contemporary types) today. Will provide the blood report after....

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 30 Apr 2022, 12:54 pm

Yeah the scenarios don't quite match but I read it as they should have all 15 players.

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Post by bsando Sat 30 Apr 2022, 5:19 pm

Just saw the Gloucester Bath score.. what the heck!? That’s an absolute embarrassment.

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Post by Heaf Sat 30 Apr 2022, 5:22 pm

bsando wrote:Just saw the Gloucester Bath score.. what the heck!? That’s an absolute embarrassment.

I watched the match and for some reason as an Irish fan I found it hard to feel sorry for Bath Whistle

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 30 Apr 2022, 7:40 pm

bsando wrote:Just saw the Gloucester Bath score.. what the heck!? That’s an absolute embarrassment.

Bath were woeful. Could have been more. Glaws fans were singing we want 70 towards the end. Literally no excuse for that Bath team to be that bad, the team they named was good on paper and their fans deserve a lot better against their local rivals than that. Whoever made the Bath players go round the pitch at the end and thank the fans who stayed and probably apologise for what they had to witness did the right thing.

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Post by doctor_grey Sun 01 May 2022, 5:55 pm

Have London Irish taken the crown as must watch TV?

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Post by Heaf Sun 01 May 2022, 6:12 pm

This season for sure - not good for those with a nervous disposition though ...

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Post by Heaf Sun 01 May 2022, 6:27 pm

Just watching the replay now and Ugo saying Irish like to play off Fekitoa and then Nick Mullins talking about Coleman taking a ball in the line-out - not even in the 23 ... jeez

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Post by doctor_grey Mon 02 May 2022, 12:06 am

Those were two amazing games, Saints-Quins and then even more so LI-Wasps. That was dead-nuts fun to watch.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 03 May 2022, 8:52 am

I love the occasional arm wrestle but the back and forth of these sort of games takes some beating. Is it me or have there been more of these recently? Generally in the latter stages of the season, or at least in the dry weather with harder grounds? Lack of relegation having as much a positive impact here as it is having a negative on the sort of performance Bath are rolling out?

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Post by Margin_Walker Tue 03 May 2022, 9:09 am

I'm all for summer rugby. Doubt we'll see it any time soon, but would start in a few months later in December, so clubs still got the big Xmas gates and run a few months further into the summer.

Would need some tinkering with global seasons etc and have no doubt many more complications, but fan experience wise it would be great.

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