Prem Round 7

Friday
Saints v Harlequins (19.45)
Sale v Bath (19.45)

Saturday
Gloucester v Leicester (14.30)
Saracens v Bristol (15.00)

Sunday
Newcastle V Exeter (15.00)

Sale Sharks

15. Joe Carpenter,
14. Tom Roebuck,
13. Rob du Preez,
12. Sam Bedlow,
11. Arron Reed,
10. George Ford,
9. Gus Warr;

1. Bevan Rodd,
2. Luke Cowan-Dickie,
3. Nick Schonert,
4. Cobus Wiese,
5. Jonny Hill,
6. Ernst van Rhyn,
7. Ben Curry ,
8. Dan du Preez.

Replacements:
16. Agustin Creevy, 17. Si McIntyre, 18. James Harper, 19. Josh Beaumont, 20. Sam Dugdale, 21. Nye Thomas, 22. Sam James, 23. Tom O'Flaherty.

Bath:
1 Thomas du Toit
2 Niall Annett
3 Johannes Jonker
4 Josh McNally
5 GJ van Velze
6 Ewan Richards
7 Chris Cloete
8 Jaco Coetzee

09 Louis Schreuder
10 Finn Russell
11 Matt Gallagher
12 Will Butt
13 Max Ojomoh
14 Ruaridh McConnochie
15 Tom de Glanville

16 Tom Dunn, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Archie Griffin, 19 Fergus Lee-Warner, 20 Nahum Merigan
21 Ben Spencer, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Cameron Redpath

I will be surprised if Bath get much out of this game with a number of senior players not selected and a smattering of promoted academy players. Sale look strong with their first pick side, so would be a good game to win.

In other better news Elliott Stooke has re-signed from Montpelier, who was a fan favourite and should never have left in the first place but fell out with Stuart Hooper at the time.

Saints:
15 Hendy;
14 Sleightholme,
13 Freeman,
12 Dingwall,
11 Ramm;
10 Furbank,
9 Mitchell;

1 E Waller,
2 S Matavesi,
3 Davison;
4 Munga,
5 Coles;
6 Lawes,
7 Pearson,
8 Ludlam (c).

Replacements: Cruse, A Waller, Millar Mills, Lockett, Scott-Young, James, Savala, Litchfield.

Harlequins:
15 Green;
14 Murley,
13 Joseph,
12 Esterhuizen,
11 Lynagh;
10 Smith,
9 Care;

1 Baxter,
2 Walker,
3 Lewis;
4 Herbst,
5 Hammond;
6 Lamb,
7 Evans,
8 Dombrandt .

Replacements: Jibulu, Garcia Botta, Chawatama, Cunningham-South, Chisholm, Porter, Evans, Beard.

Recwatcher16 wrote:I will be surprised if Bath get much out of this game with a number of senior players not selected and a smattering of promoted academy players. Sale look strong with their first pick side, so would be a good game to win.

In other better news Elliott Stooke has re-signed from Montpelier, who was a fan favourite and should never have left in the first place but fell out with Stuart Hooper at the time.

No Tom Curry, Jean-Luc du Perez, Quirke, Manu. They are missing a few. It's mainly the bench that you notice though.

Bath have picked a very physical pack and bench so could be a decent match up. Russell Vs Ford should be an interesting watch.

That Saints back row is something else.

Is Quirke Sales first choice Sam...think Warr has moved ahead now.

Geordie wrote:That Saints back row is something else.

Is Quirke Sales first choice Sam...think Warr has moved ahead now.

They seemed to be rotating at the start of the season until Quirke broke his hand. Quirke did seem to be second choice last season but having come back from another injury and up against the most consistent 9 in the Prem last season that was probably not surprising. Probably 50/50 at this point were Quirke fit.

Geordie wrote:That Saints back row is something else.

Is Quirke Sales first choice Sam...think Warr has moved ahead now.

With Augustus still to return as well.

Saints look to be trying to convert Freeman to a 13, it wil be interesting to see if he makes it. A 13 with his pace, size, distribution would be a welcome addition to the scene. Good with the boot as well.

Falcons v Exeter
1-Brantingham
2-Blamire
3-Bello
4-Hawkins
5-McDonald
6-Rubiolo
7-Pepper
8-Chick

9-Elliot
10-Johnson
11-Stephens
12-Hutchinson
13-Moroni
14-Radwan
15-Penny

16-Byrne,17-Brocklebank 18-McCallum 19-VDW 20-Cross 21-O'Sullivan 22-Jennings 23- Brown

15 Tommy Wyatt,
14 Immanuel Feyi-Waboso,
13 Henry Slade,
12 Joe Hawkins,
11 Ben Hammersley,
10 Harvey Skinner,
9 Tom Cairns;

1 Scott Sio,
2 Jack Yeandle,
3 Ehren Painter,
4 Rusi Tuima,
5 Dafydd Jenkins (captain),
6 Jacques Vermeulen,
7 Ethan Roots,
8 Aidon Davis

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Geordie wrote:That Saints back row is something else.

Is Quirke Sales first choice Sam...think Warr has moved ahead now.

With Augustus still to return as well.

Saints look to be trying to convert Freeman to a 13, it wil be interesting to see if he makes it. A 13 with his pace, size, distribution would be a welcome addition to the scene. Good with the boot as well.

One of Saints best players last weekend, it not the best. He runs good lines and gets on the ball more which suits him. Makes him an interesting option for England, could be handy in the 23 shirt covering most the backline.

Team News
15. Santi Carreras
14. Louis Rees-Zammit*
13. Chris Harris
12. Seb Atkinson*
11. Ollie Thorley*
10. George Barton*
9. Stephen Varney*
1. Mayco Vivas
2. George McGuigan
3. Fraser Balmain
4. Freddie Clarke*
5. Matias Alemanno
6. Freddie Thomas*
7. Lewis Ludlow* (C)
8. Jack Clement*

Replacements
16. Santi Socino
17. Harry Elrington
18. Jamal Ford-Robinson
19. Arthur Clark*
20. Ben Donnell
21. Micky Young
22. Mark Atkinson
23. Louis Hillman-Cooper*

*Denotes academy player or graduate

STARTING XV

15 Freddie Steward [74]
14 Josh Bassett [8]
13 Matt Scott [68]
12 Dan Kelly [64]
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins [8]
10 Handré Pollard [17]
9 Ben Youngs [304]
1 James Cronin [20]
2 Julián Montoya (c) [44]
3 Joe Heyes [129]
4 Cameron Henderson [45]
5 Ollie Chessum [45]
6 Hanro Liebenberg [93]
7 Tommy Reffell [103]
8 Jasper Wiese [63]

REPLACEMENTS

16 Charlie Clare [86]
17 James Whitcombe [41]
18 Dan Cole [312]
19 Harry Wells [181]
20 Matt Rogerson [8]
21 Tom Whiteley [13]
22 Jamie Shillcock [9]
23 Solomone Kata [3]

McKellar rotates the side again. Great to have Montoya back, huge presence. Just could do with a better bench option than Rogerson

Willis lining up at blindside could be interesting come the 6 nations.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Geordie wrote:That Saints back row is something else.

Is Quirke Sales first choice Sam...think Warr has moved ahead now.

With Augustus still to return as well.

Saints look to be trying to convert Freeman to a 13, it wil be interesting to see if he makes it. A 13 with his pace, size, distribution would be a welcome addition to the scene. Good with the boot as well.

One of Saints best players last weekend, it not the best. He runs good lines and gets on the ball more which suits him. Makes him an interesting option for England, could be handy in the 23 shirt covering most the backline.

It wouldn't surprise me if Freeman, and likely his coaches, looked at the centre options in the England squad and figures he has better than a puncher's chance of breaking in, given some playing time there.

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Geordie wrote:That Saints back row is something else.

Is Quirke Sales first choice Sam...think Warr has moved ahead now.

With Augustus still to return as well.

Saints look to be trying to convert Freeman to a 13, it wil be interesting to see if he makes it. A 13 with his pace, size, distribution would be a welcome addition to the scene. Good with the boot as well.

One of Saints best players last weekend, it not the best. He runs good lines and gets on the ball more which suits him. Makes him an interesting option for England, could be handy in the 23 shirt covering most the backline.

It wouldn't surprise me if Freeman, and likely his coaches, looked at the centre options in the England squad and figures he has better than a puncher's chance of breaking in, given some playing time there.    

Very true. I mean the choices at OC currently are Lawrence, Slade and Daly. Maybe Will Joseph. It's not really setting the world on fire. Slade wasn't deemed good enough for the world cup, Daly is a utility back, Joseph is a bit to raw and so we're down to Lawrence. A 6ft4, 15+ stone utility option that has some gas and a well rounded skillset suddenly becomes very appealing. Only thing that might count against him is the lack of an experienced 12 coming through, especially if Manu is injured for the 6N. Borthwick might not fancy a rookie centre combination when most of three of the five 6N games will see us defending against good attacks (Wales and Italy won't be poor either).

I honestly had no idea that Micky Young was still playing. A quick Google shows he was at Toulon before Gloucester!

Montoya being back for Tigers is huge. He's the best player in a good squad. Clare has started all 6 rounds, played 411 minutes due to Montoya and then Dolly being unavailable. That's a hefty workload for a front row these days. He's a solid player but I did feel he slowed noticeably against Quins and Saints. Which is understandable. Montoya is obviously a huge upgrade anyway as one of the best hookers on the planet. Having a stronger bench option is also very useful. That alone makes a big difference to my confidence going in.

Matt Scott starting at 13 also feels significant given the defensive alignment has been dire. Kelly and Scott have played together a fair bit, Scott was strong defensively last season. Hopefully it helps get something more out of Kelly too as he's had a really rubbish start to the season.

I'm happy seeing Wells and Whitcombe on the bench too. They should be upgrades on van Wyk and Carter. van Wyk has actually been better this season than last to be fair but I think Whitcombe is the better scrummager.

Gloucester missing all of Ackermann, Mercer and Tuisue from the back row. VRR, Gotvotsev and Singleton in the front row. The front row is well covered. VRR is obviously a loss but Vivas is an international and Elrington very solid. Whilst I rate Socino at hooker and Balmain is starting TH anyway. The back row absentees represent a lot of quality and physicality though. Clement and Thomas are talented players, Ludlow is very reliable at Prem level but I'd hope for Wiese, Reffell and Liebenberg to have an edge there. Likewise I'd hope that Heyes and Cole can put pressure on a VRR-less LH side as the game wears on. The second row battle should be a fun one. Alemanno is very experienced and I rate Freddie Clarke. Whilst Chessum and Henderson are looking like a quality pairing.

The Gloucester back three his s**t hot in broken play if Tigers continue to defend as poorly as they have in the wider channels.

Considering Tigers having returnees and Gloucester having absentees I'd hope that Tigers can get another win here despite being at Kingsholm. The poor quality of some of Tigers basics so far has been striking at times though so it will require continued improvement regardless of a stronger side on paper.

I honestly had no idea that Micky Young was still playing. A quick Google shows he was at Toulon before Gloucester!

Montoya being back for Tigers is huge. He's the best player in a good squad. Clare has started all 6 rounds, played 411 minutes due to Montoya and then Dolly being unavailable. That's a hefty workload for a front row these days. He's a solid player but I did feel he slowed noticeably against Quins and Saints. Which is understandable. Montoya is obviously a huge upgrade anyway as one of the best hookers on the planet. Having a stronger bench option is also very useful. That alone makes a big difference to my confidence going in.

Matt Scott starting at 13 also feels significant given the defensive alignment has been dire. Kelly and Scott have played together a fair bit, Scott was strong defensively last season. Hopefully it helps get something more out of Kelly too as he's had a really rubbish start to the season.

I'm happy seeing Wells and Whitcombe on the bench too. They should be upgrades on van Wyk and Carter. van Wyk has actually been better this season than last to be fair but I think Whitcombe is the better scrummager.

Gloucester missing all of Ackermann, Mercer and Tuisue from the back row. VRR, Gotvotsev and Singleton in the front row. The front row is well covered. VRR is obviously a loss but Vivas is an international and Elrington very solid. Whilst I rate Socino at hooker and Balmain is starting TH anyway. The back row absentees represent a lot of quality and physicality though. Clement and Thomas are talented players, Ludlow is very reliable at Prem level but I'd hope for Wiese, Reffell and Liebenberg to have an edge there. Likewise I'd hope that Heyes and Cole can put pressure on a VRR-less LH side as the game wears on. The second row battle should be a fun one. Alemanno is very experienced and I rate Freddie Clarke. Whilst Chessum and Henderson are looking like a quality pairing.

The Gloucester back three his s**t hot in broken play if Tigers continue to defend as poorly as they have in the wider channels.

Considering Tigers having returnees and Gloucester having absentees I'd hope that Tigers can get another win here despite being at Kingsholm. The poor quality of some of Tigers basics so far has been striking at times though so it will require continued improvement regardless of a stronger side on paper.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Geordie wrote:That Saints back row is something else.

Is Quirke Sales first choice Sam...think Warr has moved ahead now.

With Augustus still to return as well.

Saints look to be trying to convert Freeman to a 13, it wil be interesting to see if he makes it. A 13 with his pace, size, distribution would be a welcome addition to the scene. Good with the boot as well.

One of Saints best players last weekend, it not the best. He runs good lines and gets on the ball more which suits him. Makes him an interesting option for England, could be handy in the 23 shirt covering most the backline.

It wouldn't surprise me if Freeman, and likely his coaches, looked at the centre options in the England squad and figures he has better than a puncher's chance of breaking in, given some playing time there.    

Very true. I mean the choices at OC currently are Lawrence, Slade and Daly. Maybe Will Joseph. It's not really setting the world on fire. Slade wasn't deemed good enough for the world cup, Daly is a utility back, Joseph is a bit to raw and so we're down to Lawrence. A 6ft4, 15+ stone utility option that has some gas and a well rounded skillset suddenly becomes very appealing. Only thing that might count against him is the lack of an experienced 12 coming through, especially if Manu is injured for the 6N. Borthwick might not fancy a rookie centre combination when most of three of the five 6N games will see us defending against good attacks (Wales and Italy won't be poor either).

I suppose it depends on whether Lawrence is moved to 12...but Bath might not be happy with that..

Great to see Sleightholme back...he's a winger I've wanted in the Engkand set up for a long time.

England have some good options..two of whom have scored already tonight

A second for Sleightholme....if he's back he'd be in my England sqaud.

Furbank very impressive for Saitns at 10...smashed Esterhuizen all game in defence and played well in attack. MOTM

This was one of the better Saints performances in quite a long while.  Generally solid across the team, though the breakdown was hit and miss.  

Furbank was a deserved MOTM playing the whole match at 10.  Dingwell at 12 and Freeman at 13 (we will see this more and more) were very good.  Sleightholme on the wing just has that eye for the try line without some of those defensive frailties.  And Hendy was terrific at fullback - he is very quick/agile and has some serious acceleration and top end speed.  Needs a bit more game time, but great game for him.    

Mitchell was a bit off (gifted Quins their last try) but I attribute that to shaking off the proscriptive and structured England experience.  Need to give him another few weeks for that.  Pearson and Ludlum (before he went off) were terrific.  And Lawes was, well, Lawes.

doctor_grey wrote:

Mitchell was a bit off (gifted Quins their last try) but I attribute that to shaking off the proscriptive and structured England experience.  

The risk averse Borthwick tactics do prescribe throwing unnecessary miss passes in your own 22 as opposed to simply clearing the ball.

Mitchell has always tended to have a brain fart in the locker and he pulled one out again. Not sure why Saints left him on for the full 80 mins he looked shattered and James is a perfectly good replacement.

Geordie wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:

Geordie wrote:That Saints back row is something else.

Is Quirke Sales first choice Sam...think Warr has moved ahead now.

With Augustus still to return as well.

Saints look to be trying to convert Freeman to a 13, it wil be interesting to see if he makes it. A 13 with his pace, size, distribution would be a welcome addition to the scene. Good with the boot as well.

One of Saints best players last weekend, it not the best. He runs good lines and gets on the ball more which suits him. Makes him an interesting option for England, could be handy in the 23 shirt covering most the backline.

It wouldn't surprise me if Freeman, and likely his coaches, looked at the centre options in the England squad and figures he has better than a puncher's chance of breaking in, given some playing time there.    

Very true. I mean the choices at OC currently are Lawrence, Slade and Daly. Maybe Will Joseph. It's not really setting the world on fire. Slade wasn't deemed good enough for the world cup, Daly is a utility back, Joseph is a bit to raw and so we're down to Lawrence. A 6ft4, 15+ stone utility option that has some gas and a well rounded skillset suddenly becomes very appealing. Only thing that might count against him is the lack of an experienced 12 coming through, especially if Manu is injured for the 6N. Borthwick might not fancy a rookie centre combination when most of three of the five 6N games will see us defending against good attacks (Wales and Italy won't be poor either).

I suppose it depends on whether Lawrence is moved to 12...but Bath might not be happy with that..

Doubt Bath will care they'll just keep playing him in his best position. At 13 the additional space brings him alive. He's far more suited to that then just crashing up at 12.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Mitchell was a bit off (gifted Quins their last try) but I attribute that to shaking off the proscriptive and structured England experience.  

The risk averse Borthwick tactics do prescribe throwing unnecessary miss passes in your own 22 as opposed to simply clearing the ball.

Mitchell has always tended to have a brain fart in the locker and he pulled one out again. Not sure why Saints left him on for the full 80 mins he looked shattered and James is a perfectly good replacement.

Yup. Its simply clearing ie kicking the ball every time you get it. Can't throw an intercept of you don't throw a pass.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Mitchell was a bit off (gifted Quins their last try) but I attribute that to shaking off the proscriptive and structured England experience.  

The risk averse Borthwick tactics do prescribe throwing unnecessary miss passes in your own 22 as opposed to simply clearing the ball.

Mitchell has always tended to have a brain fart in the locker and he pulled one out again. Not sure why Saints left him on for the full 80 mins he looked shattered and James is a perfectly good replacement.

Yup. Its simply clearing ie kicking the ball every time you get it. Can't throw an intercept of you don't throw a pass.

You don't throw one in your own 22. You play in the opponent's half of the pitch. Like France and Sarries do. Leinster and Ireland don't exactly mess around in their own half either. Between them all they've got quite a few trophies.

Nah all of them play if they think it's on. The players are backed and mistakes are accepted.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

Mitchell was a bit off (gifted Quins their last try) but I attribute that to shaking off the proscriptive and structured England experience.  

The risk averse Borthwick tactics do prescribe throwing unnecessary miss passes in your own 22 as opposed to simply clearing the ball.

Mitchell has always tended to have a brain fart in the locker and he pulled one out again. Not sure why Saints left him on for the full 80 mins he looked shattered and James is a perfectly good replacement.

Yup. Its simply clearing ie kicking the ball every time you get it. Can't throw an intercept of you don't throw a pass.

You don't throw one in your own 22. You play in the opponent's half of the pitch. Like France and Sarries do. Leinster and Ireland don't exactly mess around in their own half either. Between them all they've got quite a few trophies.

Mitchell was clearly gassed in the last 15 minutes, and I am not sure why he was left out there. But that was a major boner which could come back to haunt them.

Tigers need to stop giving away soft pens

Just put on Gloucester-Leicester. The jerseys both teams are wearing look like what's left on the used pile at TK Maxx. The Lime gelato v. the big red 4. As a sport we have to do better than this......

Tigers doing their best to lose this ...

Tigers were lucky to escape giving up only three there. Must have been a missed lineout call.

That was a real poor decision by the ref. Clearly not held in the try zone tackle.

Do you mean the one where the ball did/didn't touch the ground when Carreras had it?

The first half when the Leicester tackler threw the Gloucester player down in the in-goal, but didn't hold him on the ground. Didn't think the ball was grounded, but would have to go look again (if I can remember when it happened).

OK, now with just a point in it, should have a good (at least competitive) last 30 minutes.

Two fairly unusual yellows in a row.  Both felt like Rugby incidents to me, but certainly get why they are yellow (though the pen on the Gloucester 10 maybe just a hair less so).

And by the way how bloody good are Reffell and Julián Montoya?

doctor_grey wrote:The first half when the Leicester tackler threw the Gloucester player down in the in-goal, but didn't hold him on the ground.  Didn't think the ball was grounded, but would have to go look again (if I can remember when it happened).

Ref thought the ball was grounded so not a question around the tackle. I thought the point of the ball touched the ground in real-time so good call, not so clear on replay. Would have gone back for a Tigers pen advantage anyway.

Heaf wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:The first half when the Leicester tackler threw the Gloucester player down in the in-goal, but didn't hold him on the ground.  Didn't think the ball was grounded, but would have to go look again (if I can remember when it happened).

Ref thought the ball was grounded so not a question around the tackle.  I thought the point of the ball touched the ground in real-time so good call, not so clear on replay.  Would have gone back for a Tigers pen advantage anyway.

You thought it was a good call? Then OK for me! Besides that saves me time going back to look...

Flats thought so too ...

Heaf wrote: Flats thought so too ...

You, me, and Flats. Doesn't get better than that.

In the end, a nice competitive game going down to near the end. Can't ask for more than that.

Not sure I want to switch over and watch Sarries-Bristol.

I've switched over - looks like this was a mad game ... Bristol just scored a superb try

Farrell couldn't hit a cow's a*se with a banjo today ...

Better again in some ways for Tigers. The game plan development continues though the set pieces aren't looking as robust as they need to be. Must be slightly tough for the new look coaching staff with the attack coach on an (unexplained so far) leave of absence.

Good to see Freddie Steward back to his best. Plenty of metres post contact. Two try assists. Having a number of the big hitters back in the squad together makes a big difference. Montoya, Cole, Reffell, Worse, Pollard, Steward etc really do make a huge difference.

Smith had to pull out of the Saints // Quins game a couple of days before the game, Furbank moved into the slot and produced a MotM performance. For a regular to small size guy (87kg) he can certainly hit hard Esterhuizen repeatedly tried to rub down his channel and got taken down every time, he is still counting the bruises.

I am not sure if I should hail him as a competitor to Fin Smith, or as a handy replacement.

Eddie Jones always said that 10 was his natural position not 15, Friday, he made 20 passes, 2 offloads, 8 carries and only 3 kicks from hand. He also made 12 tackles and effected 2 turnovers. That is completely different from any other fly half stats I have seen this season. Possibly the reason why Saints conceded so many tries as well, there is a difference between scratching it and tearing it as they say when it come to kicking for position.

With Saints squad full of wing/fullbacks and Hendy looking very secure at 15 , playing him at 10 when it suits could go very well in the future.

2 horrendous attempted tackles

But rhatll do!!

Great line from Jamie.

Brilliant score!

How quick was Hawkins?!

And another yes!!!