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URC Season 2022/23

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No 7&1/2
neilthom7
LeinsterFan4life
PhilBB
Pot Hale
geoff999rugby
thebandwagonsociety
Kingshu
profitius
Brendan
RiscaGame
Oakdene
mikey_dragon
LordDowlais
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URC Season 2022/23 - Page 3 Empty Re: URC Season 2022/23

Post by LordDowlais Fri 29 Jul 2022, 11:36 am

First topic message reminder :

Fixtures out for the coming season:-

United Rugby Championship schedule 2022/23
Round one
September16/17/18

Benetton v Glasgow

Cardiff v Munster

Zebre v Leinster

Scarlets v Ospreys

Edinburgh v Dragons

Ulster v Connacht

February3/4

Stormers v Sharks

Lions v Bulls

Round two
September23/24/25

Zebre v Sharks

Glasgow v Cardiff

Leinster v Benetton

Scarlets v Ulster

Bulls v Edinburgh

Stormers v Connacht

Ospreys v Lions

Dragons v Munster

Round three
September 30/October 1/2

Cardiff v Lions

Ulster v Leinster

Stormers v Edinburgh

Bulls v Connacht

Ospreys v Glasgow

Munster v Zebre

Benetton v Scarlets

Dragons v Sharks

Round four
October7/8/9

Connacht v Munster

Edinburgh v Lions

Zebre v Stormers

Leinster v Sharks

Scarlets v Cardiff

Glasgow v Bulls

Ulster v Ospreys

Benetton v Dragons

Round five
October14/15/16

Ospreys v Stormers

Munster v Bulls

Lions v Ulster

Sharks v Glasgow

Edinburgh v Benetton

Cardiff v Dragons

Scarlets v Zebre,

Connacht v Leinster

Round six
October21/22/23

Benetton v Bulls

Connacht v Scarlets

Zebre v Edinburgh

Lions v Glasgow

Sharks v Ulster

Cardiff v Stormers

Leinster v Munster

Dragons v Ospreys

Round seven
October28/29/30

Scarlets v Leinster

Glasgow v Benetton

Munster v Ulster

Dragons v Zebre

Ospreys v Connacht

Cardiff v Edinburgh

February10/11

Bulls v Sharks

Lions v Stormers

Round eight
November25/26/27

Stormers v Scarlets

Ulster v Zebre

Bulls v Ospreys

Benetton v Edinburgh

Leinster v Glasgow

Munster v Connacht

Lions v Dragons

Sharks v Cardiff

Round nine
December2/3/4

Sharks v Ospreys

Edinburgh v Munster

Stormers v Dragons

Zebre v Glasgow

Connacht v Benetton.

Bulls v Cardiff

Leinster v Ulster

Lions v Scarlets

Round 10
December23/24/26

Sharks v Lions

Stormers v Bulls

Glasgow v Edinburgh

Benetton v Zebre

Connacht v Ulster

Ospreys v Scarlets

Munster v Leinster

Dragons v Cardiff

Round 11
December 31/January 1

Edinburgh v Glasgow

Zebre v Benetton

Sharks v Bulls

Stormers v Lions

Cardiff v Ospreys

Scarlets v Dragons

Ulster v Munster

Leinster v Connacht

Round 12
January6/7/8

Munster v Lions

Dragons v Bulls

Benetton v Ulster

Glasgow v Stormers

Cardiff v Scarlets

Connacht v Sharks

Ospreys v Leinster

Edinburgh v Zebre

Round 13
January27/28/29

Ulster v Stormers

Scarlets v Bulls

Benetton v Munster

Dragons v Glasgow

Leinster v Cardiff

Edinburgh v Sharks

Connacht v Lions

Zebre v Ospreys

Round 14
February17/18/19

Glasgow v Ulster

Munster v Ospreys

Lions v Sharks

Bulls v Stormers

Zebre v Connacht

Scarlets v Edinburgh

Cardiff v Benetton

Leinster v Dragons

Round 15
March3/4/5

Glasgow v Zebre

Munster v Scarlets

Bulls v Lions

Sharks v Stormers

Edinburgh v Leinster

Ospreys v Benetton

Cardiff v Ulster

Dragons v Connacht

Round 16
March24/25/26

Zebre v Cardiff

Leinster v Stormers

Benetton v Lions

Ospreys v Dragons

Connacht v Edinburgh

Munster v Glasgow

Scarlets v Sharks

Ulster v Bulls

Round 17
April14/15/16

Sharks v Benetton

Glasgow v Scarlets

Ulster v Dragons

Lions v Leinster

Bulls v Zebre

Stormers v Munster

Connacht v Cardiff

Edinburgh v Ospreys

Round 18
April21/22/23

Stormers v Benetton

Ulster v Edinburgh

Lions v Zebre

Dragons v Scarlets

Bulls v Leinster

Ospreys v Cardiff

Sharks v Munster

Glasgow v Connacht

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URC Season 2022/23 - Page 3 Empty Re: URC Season 2022/23

Post by RugbyFan100 Mon 22 Aug 2022, 10:56 am

Kingshu wrote:

According to the Financial Times (FT), the URC has new broadcast partnerships in place including with the BBC in the UK, RTE in Ireland and SuperSport in South Africa worth UK£55 million a year

Hang on, where the hell is all that money going? My club definitely isn't seeing that increase.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 22 Aug 2022, 11:15 am

Welshmushroom wrote:
So if you can't get the 2 million difference from TV revenue, the only place left would be through gates and merchandise, unless there is a magic money tree I seem to have missed?

Yes, you've missed corporate income.

It seems the RFU are actually paying about £20m to its supply chain. Just £20m. That takes the proverbial.

£20m to eat up at least 9 prime weekends during the season. £20m to take the best players away for more than 9 games.

£1.5m per club, or so, to lose all of that.

It's breakeven money at least, but miles and miles off a claim that international money keeps the club game alive. Miles away.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 22 Aug 2022, 11:20 am

Welshmushroom wrote:
P
Top14 makes money currently based on its current viewership deal.  


page 32, DNACG Report 2021

versements LNR make up 23% of income across the league

You standing by your claim?
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Post by PhilBB Mon 22 Aug 2022, 11:20 am

Welshmushroom wrote:

What I will say is that the Top14 is saturated and they won't be able to grow much further past what they have already achieved to date.  



Really? So how are you explaining a professional third tier in France that's now in place?
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Post by PhilBB Mon 22 Aug 2022, 11:22 am

Welshmushroom wrote:
What I will say however again as it's a point you breezed past without commenting on is that this will be at the expense of the fan and player welfare.  The NFL are a million miles ahead of how they promote their sports and rugby could actually learn from them in a lot of respects by creating larger off seasons (by reducing both international and club rugby).  

Correlation and causation in action here.

I breezed past it because I don't agree with "creating larger off seasons".
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Post by PhilBB Mon 22 Aug 2022, 11:25 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
The NFL didn't have to compete with the behemoth that is soccer until relatively recently though. Soccer hovers up the majority of the sports fans and coverage here, everyone else is fighting for scraps.

I don't think a longer off season is necessarily going to do much, we had no crowds or games for long periods due to covid and if anything ticket sales seemed to go down this year, it certainly did with Leinster. On the flip side soccer never seems to stop, even in their off season they are flying around the world in extravagant friendlies, yet people never seem to get enough of it.

NFL has the season length it does so that the other American sports all have unfettered access to the support base. There's little crossover between American Football, Basketball and Baseball in terms of seasons.

That's why there are many who own teams across various sports.

So your point about competition is spot on.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 22 Aug 2022, 11:25 am

Welshmushroom wrote:I take your point.

That said its not like the NFL does not have to compete with other sports.  Baseball, Hockey and Basketball are all massive in their own right.

Also Football as a sport lends itself better to more games.  It is after all non contact.

Mate, read a fixture list.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 22 Aug 2022, 11:26 am

Kingshu wrote:

Dont think thats true,

https://www.sportspromedia.com/news/pro14-united-rugby-championship-tv-rights-2021-streaming/

According to the Financial Times (FT), the URC has new broadcast partnerships in place including with the BBC in the UK, RTE in Ireland and SuperSport in South Africa worth UK£55 million a year (US$77.4 million), up from UK£25 million (US$35.2 million) for the Pro14 last year.

Which is higher than the current premiership deal of £110 million over 3 years which is £36million a year.


Put it this way, if it is £55m a year, why aren't the participating clubs getting their £3m+ each?
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Post by PhilBB Mon 22 Aug 2022, 11:27 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:Pretty sure I read that the broadcast / comeptition money handed to the 4 Welsh clubs had actually gone down in the last set of WRU accounts?

Yep
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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon 22 Aug 2022, 11:37 am

PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Pretty sure I read that the broadcast / comeptition money handed to the 4 Welsh clubs had actually gone down in the last set of WRU accounts?

Yep

Yet the tv deal has gone up 125% from £25m to £55m?

Something not quite adding up there.

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Post by PhilBB Mon 22 Aug 2022, 11:52 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Pretty sure I read that the broadcast / comeptition money handed to the 4 Welsh clubs had actually gone down in the last set of WRU accounts?

Yep

Yet the tv deal has gone up 125% from £25m to £55m?

Something not quite adding up there.

No, that's wrong, in fairness.

In 2020, competition money was £7.1m. In 2021, the first year of the URC, it was £8.1m.

And that includes ERC money.

Woohoo. Rolling in it. £2m each. Certainly not £3.4m from the URC alone.

Although the IRFU somehow managed €21m in "Provincial Competition Income". Make of that what you will.
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Post by Pot Hale Mon 22 Aug 2022, 12:47 pm

PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Pretty sure I read that the broadcast / comeptition money handed to the 4 Welsh clubs had actually gone down in the last set of WRU accounts?

Yep

Yet the tv deal has gone up 125% from £25m to £55m?

Something not quite adding up there.

No, that's wrong, in fairness.

In 2020, competition money was £7.1m. In 2021, the first year of the URC, it was £8.1m.

And that includes ERC money.

Woohoo. Rolling in it. £2m each. Certainly not £3.4m from the URC alone.

Although the IRFU somehow managed €21m in "Provincial Competition Income". Make of that what you will.

"Make of that what you will".    You're being disingenuous again, Phil.   The IRFU figure includes 13.2m of CVC monies - part of the investment deal in PRO14 - "Receipt of €13.2m in respect of the CVC deal with Pro14 which is included in Provincial Competition Income in schedule 1" - IRFU Annual Report 2021

TV income would not just be split simply across 16 teams.   Commercial income under terms of CVC deal means CVC are now taking their share with the balance split across the shareholder unions, in accordance with the participation agreements.
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Post by PhilBB Mon 22 Aug 2022, 5:09 pm

Pot Hale wrote:

"Make of that what you will".    You're being disingenuous again, Phil.   The IRFU figure includes 13.2m of CVC monies - part of the investment deal in PRO14 - "Receipt of €13.2m in respect of the CVC deal with Pro14 which is included in Provincial Competition Income in schedule 1" - IRFU Annual Report 2021

TV income would not just be split simply across 16 teams.   Commercial income under terms of CVC deal means CVC are now taking their share with the balance split across the shareholder unions, in accordance with the participation agreements.

Pat, far from being disingenuous, what's happening here is you showing your lack of understanding. Again.

My point was that the WRU is refusing to give the CVC money to those it rightly belongs to.

£55m-28% = £42.9m/16 = £2.68

Hence it doesn't add up. Which was my point. Which wasn't, therefore, disingenuous
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Post by Welshmushroom Mon 22 Aug 2022, 8:10 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:
So if you can't get the 2 million difference from TV revenue, the only place left would be through gates and merchandise, unless there is a magic money tree I seem to have missed?

Yes, you've missed corporate income.

It seems the RFU are actually paying about £20m to its supply chain. Just £20m. That takes the proverbial.

£20m to eat up at least 9 prime weekends during the season. £20m to take the best players away for more than 9 games.

£1.5m per club, or so, to lose all of that.

It's breakeven money at least, but miles and miles off a claim that international money keeps the club game alive. Miles away.

Yeah sure thing Phil, I'm sure in the current climate corporation are just falling over themselves to give money to English Premiership sides. Given we are already seeing 2 clubs struggling to survive with doubts over their viability, I'm sure the 1.5 mill per club doesn't make a material difference to the clubs.

Your off your head.

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Post by Welshmushroom Mon 22 Aug 2022, 8:29 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:

What I will say is that the Top14 is saturated and they won't be able to grow much further past what they have already achieved to date.  



Really? So how are you explaining a professional third tier in France that's now in place?

Only time will tell but yes I don't think their TV deals and corporate revenues will rise significantly beyond this point, granted they don't need to at this stage. I'm not entirely sure why you think the Premiership can replicate rugby in France? Totally different countries. Football dominates English sport and that will always affect the amount of money and fans that are available to the club rugby scene in England.

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Post by Pot Hale Mon 22 Aug 2022, 11:29 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

"Make of that what you will".    You're being disingenuous again, Phil.   The IRFU figure includes 13.2m of CVC monies - part of the investment deal in PRO14 - "Receipt of €13.2m in respect of the CVC deal with Pro14 which is included in Provincial Competition Income in schedule 1" - IRFU Annual Report 2021

TV income would not just be split simply across 16 teams.   Commercial income under terms of CVC deal means CVC are now taking their share with the balance split across the shareholder unions, in accordance with the participation agreements.

Pat, far from being disingenuous, what's happening here is you showing your lack of understanding. Again.

My point was that the WRU is refusing to give the CVC money to those it rightly belongs to.

£55m-28% = £42.9m/16 = £2.68

Hence it doesn't add up. Which was my point. Which wasn't, therefore, disingenuous

You're still doing it wrong even with your belated realisation of the CVC chunk. Not all of the shareholding has been taken up yet by CVC with unions giving up their percentages at different times. And a portion of the investment will be held centrally - not all of it goes to the shareholders.

The FT report refers to total revenues for URC being increased to £55m - a chunk of that includes revenues to SARU under their agreement with SuperSport for their teams' participation. SARU in turn are committed to paying the PRO14 shareholders an annual sum for their participation over 6 years from when they first joined.

In short, it's not £55m divided across 16 teams.
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Post by PhilBB Tue 23 Aug 2022, 10:41 am

Welshmushroom wrote:

Yeah sure thing Phil, I'm sure in the current climate corporation are just falling over themselves to give money to English Premiership sides.  Given we are already seeing 2 clubs struggling to survive with doubts over their viability, I'm sure the 1.5 mill per club doesn't make a material difference to the clubs.

Your off your head.

Oh dear. I see why you write as you do.

The point missed by you was that, were there no / less international rugby, domestic rugby would pick up at least some of the slack from those presently backing international rugby. Remember the bit I wrote to you earlier about ABC1?

You asked if there was a substitution for the RFU income. I pointed out that there comfortably was. A further up to four home games and access to a larger corporate / broadcast backing. That access is undeniable, even if you can't grasp that.
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Post by PhilBB Tue 23 Aug 2022, 10:42 am

Welshmushroom wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:

What I will say is that the Top14 is saturated and they won't be able to grow much further past what they have already achieved to date.  



Really? So how are you explaining a professional third tier in France that's now in place?

Only time will tell but yes I don't think their TV deals and corporate revenues will rise significantly beyond this point, granted they don't need to at this stage.  I'm not entirely sure why you think the Premiership can replicate rugby in France?  Totally different countries.  Football dominates English sport and that will always affect the amount of money and fans that are available to the club rugby scene in England.

You've ignored the point that French domestic professional rugby is expanding. Demonstrably expanding.

Time doesn't have to tell. It's already told.

As for what the Premiership can do, let's see what CVC decides. They see growth, funnily enough
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Post by PhilBB Tue 23 Aug 2022, 10:44 am

Pot Hale wrote:

You're still doing it wrong even with your belated realisation of the CVC chunk.   Not all of the shareholding has been taken up yet by CVC with unions giving up their percentages at different times.  And a portion of the investment will be held centrally - not all of it goes to the shareholders.

The FT report refers to total revenues for URC being increased to £55m - a chunk of that includes revenues to SARU under their agreement with SuperSport for their teams' participation.    SARU in turn are committed to paying the PRO14 shareholders an annual sum for their participation over 6 years from when they first joined.    

In short, it's not £55m divided across 16 teams.  

See, this is where discussing stuff with you is utterly pointless as you just write lies as you did in your first sentence.

SARU is paying £6m a year, Champ. The participation income is falling. It's one of the major reasons the Welsh four clubs want out of the URC.

See now? Join the dots now? I hope so
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Post by Pot Hale Tue 23 Aug 2022, 10:49 am

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

You're still doing it wrong even with your belated realisation of the CVC chunk.   Not all of the shareholding has been taken up yet by CVC with unions giving up their percentages at different times.  And a portion of the investment will be held centrally - not all of it goes to the shareholders.

The FT report refers to total revenues for URC being increased to £55m - a chunk of that includes revenues to SARU under their agreement with SuperSport for their teams' participation.    SARU in turn are committed to paying the PRO14 shareholders an annual sum for their participation over 6 years from when they first joined.    

In short, it's not £55m divided across 16 teams.  

See, this is where discussing stuff with you is utterly pointless as you just write lies as you did in your first sentence.

SARU is paying £6m a year, Champ. The participation income is falling. It's one of the major reasons the Welsh four clubs want out of the URC.

See now? Join the dots now? I hope so

Yes I know that SARU is paying 6m a year.

And your understanding is still wrong.
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Post by Welshmushroom Tue 23 Aug 2022, 11:52 am

PhilBB wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:

Yeah sure thing Phil, I'm sure in the current climate corporation are just falling over themselves to give money to English Premiership sides.  Given we are already seeing 2 clubs struggling to survive with doubts over their viability, I'm sure the 1.5 mill per club doesn't make a material difference to the clubs.

Your off your head.

Oh dear. I see why you write as you do.

The point missed by you was that, were there no / less international rugby, domestic rugby would pick up at least some of the slack from those presently backing international rugby. Remember the bit I wrote to you earlier about ABC1?

You asked if there was a substitution for the RFU income. I pointed out that there comfortably was. A further up to four home games and access to a larger corporate / broadcast backing. That access is undeniable, even if you can't grasp that.

I think your failing to grasp the fact the 1.5 million of the RFU money is essentially pure income for the majority of Premiership clubs as most of them are only providing 3-4 players for that money. In some cases non at all and given the PRL splits this funding out equally between clubs those that have those internationals are not fairly compensated as is. If as you say clubs would just make this up with the addition of extra fixture list income, do you really think this comes without additional cost to clubs? In order to schedule these additional games increased cost to squads would follow. During international windows only 23 players are named in match days for England. Under your proposition 299 players would be required for the match days for the Club sides for every additional game you add to the season. Given that the Players Union already states they play to many games I doubt clubs would be able to ask their existing squads to play even more games under your proposal. So then essentially clubs would probably have to increase their squad sizes to add these 9 fixtures which would essentially impact the amount of profit they could make from hosting the fixtures in the first place, not to mention the actual costs of staging these fixtures. There might be a couple of clubs in England who could make this work but for the majority this would turn out as a disaster. The game already wouldn't exist in England without massive amounts of benefactor money each year.

But your view given the opposition to extended breaks for players no doubt makes it totally feasible to ask players to play 30+ games a season without detriment to player welfare or decrease the quality of the league.




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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 24 Aug 2022, 12:06 pm

Pot Hale wrote:

In short, it's not £55m divided across 16 teams.  

If it's not '£55m divided across 16 teams', then it shouldn't be compared to the English and French deals, which seem to be split amongst their league's teams fairly squarely. Although I remember reading that some of the French TV money goes to Pro2.

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Post by Pot Hale Wed 24 Aug 2022, 6:29 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

In short, it's not £55m divided across 16 teams.  

If it's not '£55m divided across 16 teams', then it shouldn't be compared to the English and French deals, which seem to be split amongst their league's teams fairly squarely. Although I remember reading that some of the French TV money goes to Pro2.

You're quite right - it shouldn't be used as a comparison per team. Depending on which amount you read for the Top TV deals - some of it is allocated to the Pro D2.
But they're still streets ahead of everyone else.

The figure used by the FT in its report is for the total value of revenues for URC - that could include sponsorships as well therefore, so it's not even clear what elements are being compared.






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Post by PhilBB Thu 25 Aug 2022, 8:24 am

Welshmushroom wrote:

I think your failing to grasp the fact the 1.5 million of the RFU money is essentially pure income for the majority of Premiership clubs as most of them are only providing 3-4 players for that money.  In some cases non at all and given the PRL splits this funding out equally between clubs those that have those internationals are not fairly compensated as is.  If as you say clubs would just make this up with the addition of extra fixture list income, do you really think this comes without additional cost to clubs?  In order to schedule these additional games increased cost to squads would follow.  During international windows only 23 players are named in match days for England.  Under your proposition 299 players would be required for the match days for the Club sides for every additional game you add to the season.  Given that the Players Union already states they play to many games I doubt clubs would be able to ask their existing squads to play even more games under your proposal.  So then essentially clubs would probably have to increase their squad sizes to add these 9 fixtures which would essentially impact the amount of profit they could make from hosting the fixtures in the first place, not to mention the actual costs of staging these fixtures.  There might be a couple of clubs in England who could make this work but for the majority this would turn out as a disaster.  The game already wouldn't exist in England without massive amounts of benefactor money each year.

But your view given the opposition to extended breaks for players no doubt makes it totally feasible to ask players to play 30+ games a season without detriment to player welfare or decrease the quality of the league.


I believe the RFU payment plus any additional costs would be more than covered.

I've made no comment about "30+ games", so that's pure supposition.
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Post by PhilBB Thu 25 Aug 2022, 8:24 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

In short, it's not £55m divided across 16 teams.  

If it's not '£55m divided across 16 teams', then it shouldn't be compared to the English and French deals, which seem to be split amongst their league's teams fairly squarely. Although I remember reading that some of the French TV money goes to Pro2.

Don't be disingenuous
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Post by PhilBB Thu 25 Aug 2022, 8:26 am

Pot Hale wrote:  

And your understanding is still wrong.  

It's not, but I'm incapable of getting you to understand this. So both of us think the other is wrong (see your Ulster claim that excludes the IRFU payment - as they hold the contract - but includes medical costs as an example of how your understanding is weak and clouds the accurate figures) and that's never going to change.

So best to move on and not interact on such matters.
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Post by Pot Hale Thu 25 Aug 2022, 12:58 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:  

And your understanding is still wrong.  

It's not, but I'm incapable of getting you to understand this. So both of us think the other is wrong (see your Ulster claim that excludes the IRFU payment - as they hold the contract - but includes medical costs as an example of how your understanding is weak and clouds the accurate figures) and that's never going to change.

So best to move on and not interact on such matters.

This doesn’t make any sense.

I said that Ulster’s revenues don’t include central contract player salaries i.e. Henderson & Stockdale.
Their contribution to provincial contracts is included. It’s well known and understood that a province with central contract players don’t have to include those costs in their budgets. It’s not that difficult to follow - there are only 13-14 of them in total across the 4.

Medical costs are included within Player & Management Costs in Ulster expenditure of 4.9m. Simple statement of fact.
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Post by PhilBB Thu 25 Aug 2022, 2:11 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:  

And your understanding is still wrong.  

It's not, but I'm incapable of getting you to understand this. So both of us think the other is wrong (see your Ulster claim that excludes the IRFU payment - as they hold the contract - but includes medical costs as an example of how your understanding is weak and clouds the accurate figures) and that's never going to change.

So best to move on and not interact on such matters.

Oh well, I tried.
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Post by Pot Hale Thu 25 Aug 2022, 4:58 pm

PhilBB wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:  

And your understanding is still wrong.  

It's not, but I'm incapable of getting you to understand this. So both of us think the other is wrong (see your Ulster claim that excludes the IRFU payment - as they hold the contract - but includes medical costs as an example of how your understanding is weak and clouds the accurate figures) and that's never going to change.

So best to move on and not interact on such matters.

Oh well, I tried.

Don't worry - I'll be happy to explain it to you each time you get it wrong. Wink
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Post by PhilBB Fri 26 Aug 2022, 10:30 am

Pot Hale wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:  

And your understanding is still wrong.  

It's not, but I'm incapable of getting you to understand this. So both of us think the other is wrong (see your Ulster claim that excludes the IRFU payment - as they hold the contract - but includes medical costs as an example of how your understanding is weak and clouds the accurate figures) and that's never going to change.

So best to move on and not interact on such matters.

Oh well, I tried.

Don't worry - I'll be happy to explain it to you each time you get it wrong. Wink

If only you were as receptive as you are wrong, but we can now hopefully move on.
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Post by PhilBB Fri 26 Aug 2022, 10:32 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Pretty sure I read that the broadcast / comeptition money handed to the 4 Welsh clubs had actually gone down in the last set of WRU accounts?

Yep

Yet the tv deal has gone up 125% from £25m to £55m?

Something not quite adding up there.

I wouldn't be surprised, in this thread about Welsh rugby, to see some of the CVC payment released to the clubs (to whom it belongs anyway) in the next few weeks.
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Post by Pot Hale Fri 26 Aug 2022, 12:31 pm

PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Pretty sure I read that the broadcast / comeptition money handed to the 4 Welsh clubs had actually gone down in the last set of WRU accounts?

Yep

Yet the tv deal has gone up 125% from £25m to £55m?

Something not quite adding up there.

I wouldn't be surprised, in this thread about Welsh rugby, to see some of the CVC payment released to the clubs (to whom it belongs anyway) in the next few weeks.

The topic title is URC Season 2022/23...

It's a broad church - that includes Welsh rugby.
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Post by PhilBB Fri 26 Aug 2022, 1:54 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Pretty sure I read that the broadcast / comeptition money handed to the 4 Welsh clubs had actually gone down in the last set of WRU accounts?

Yep

Yet the tv deal has gone up 125% from £25m to £55m?

Something not quite adding up there.

I wouldn't be surprised, in this thread about Welsh rugby, to see some of the CVC payment released to the clubs (to whom it belongs anyway) in the next few weeks.

The topic title is URC Season 2022/23...

It's a broad church - that includes Welsh rugby.  

Hale, mate, please try better to stop missing my point. It'll help you to stop writing such tripe.

Take the hint from the mods, Champ.
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Post by Pot Hale Fri 26 Aug 2022, 2:11 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Pretty sure I read that the broadcast / comeptition money handed to the 4 Welsh clubs had actually gone down in the last set of WRU accounts?

Yep

Yet the tv deal has gone up 125% from £25m to £55m?

Something not quite adding up there.

I wouldn't be surprised, in this thread about Welsh rugby, to see some of the CVC payment released to the clubs (to whom it belongs anyway) in the next few weeks.

The topic title is URC Season 2022/23...

It's a broad church - that includes Welsh rugby.  

Hale, mate, please try better to stop missing my point. It'll help you to stop writing such tripe.

Take the hint from the mods, Champ.

I love when you say champ. Gives me a tingly feeling all over, mate.

Perhaps the WRU will give the CVC PRO14 monies to the regions with conditions attached to how they might be spent...
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Post by PhilBB Fri 26 Aug 2022, 4:05 pm

Pot Hale wrote:
Perhaps the WRU will give the CVC PRO14 monies to the regions with conditions attached to how they might be spent...

Now this is a good conversation topic, starting with the word "give".

As the CVC payment is just a "future sale" of income, as such / so we're told, it would be an interesting conversation to see what (new/further) conditions could be set.

As interesting as what the WRU will do with the 6N CVC payment, bar pay for the Women's Game - as instructed by CVC.
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Post by Pot Hale Fri 26 Aug 2022, 4:16 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
Perhaps the WRU will give the CVC PRO14 monies to the regions with conditions attached to how they might be spent...

Now this is a good conversation topic, starting with the word "give".

As the CVC payment is just a "future sale" of income, as such / so we're told, it would be an interesting conversation to see what (new/further) conditions could be set.

As interesting as what the WRU will do with the 6N CVC payment, bar pay for the Women's Game - as instructed by CVC.

Indeed. The IRFU ‘gave’ €13.2m worth of CVC P14 monies to the provinces to part-pay their debt to the union. Straight out and back in again.

Would be interesting to see if WRU give the money seeking early repayment of some of the infamous loan or is that now off their books with the state taking over the loan?
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Post by PhilBB Fri 26 Aug 2022, 4:26 pm

Pot Hale wrote:

Indeed.  The IRFU ‘gave’ €13.2m worth of CVC P14 monies to the provinces to part-pay their debt to the union.  Straight out and back in again.

Would be interesting to see if WRU give the money seeking early repayment of some of the infamous loan or is that now off their books with the state taking over the loan?  

Well, there's a world of difference between spending your own money on yourself and taking somebody else's money from them, so there's no comparison between the IRFU and the WRU.

So the IRFU didn't go "out" because it never left the IRFU.

The loan isn't off the WRU's books. Charge Code 034195140016

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 26 Aug 2022, 5:06 pm

I was under the impression you didnt mind clubs being boosted by wealthy owners Phil? Does that not come under spending someone else's money?

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Post by Pot Hale Fri 26 Aug 2022, 6:31 pm

PhilBB wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:

Indeed.  The IRFU ‘gave’ €13.2m worth of CVC P14 monies to the provinces to part-pay their debt to the union.  Straight out and back in again.

Would be interesting to see if WRU give the money seeking early repayment of some of the infamous loan or is that now off their books with the state taking over the loan?  

Well, there's a world of difference between spending your own money on yourself and taking somebody else's money from them, so there's no comparison between the IRFU and the WRU.

So the IRFU didn't go "out" because it never left the IRFU.

The loan isn't off the WRU's books. Charge Code 034195140016


Oh I didn't see a comparison, more a contrast. Both unions view themselves as the principals in receiving the competition monies as shareholders in the comp, but use them differently. If the loan isn't off their books, I can see the WRU attaching some conditions if they decide to "invest" the CVC monies in the regions.
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Post by carpet baboon Sun 28 Aug 2022, 5:16 pm

So will this be the last season before the Welsh regions leave and go to the loving embrace of the English regional south west 1 division?
I wish them well

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon 29 Aug 2022, 10:32 am

carpet baboon wrote:So will this be the last season before the Welsh regions leave and go to the loving embrace of the English regional south west 1 division?
I wish them well

Their eyes look east waiting for the day that their love will appear on the horizon to sweep them away from all the annoying scoundrels in the gutter.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon 29 Aug 2022, 10:35 am

Plenty on here have spoken about merit plenty of times in the past. So will this be the last season that top table european places get held in reserve for poorly performing teams and instead get based on final league positioning?

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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon 29 Aug 2022, 10:36 am

carpet baboon wrote:So will this be the last season before the Welsh regions leave and go to the loving embrace of the English regional south west 1 division?
I wish them well

One can only hope

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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon 29 Aug 2022, 10:37 am

https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/andy-farrell-set-to-tour-south-africa-with-emerging-ireland-in-september-with-players-to-miss-urc-action-41942286.html?555555


Remembere this.....

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/celtic-league-drops-welsh-clubs-after-cup-controversy-492720.html

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon 29 Aug 2022, 10:37 am

I'm looking forward to this coming season of URC. I think there are 3 good conferences to build on. Benetton to continue to improve. Both Scots, four SAs and four Irish to commit to the competition and build some rivalries.

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Post by Pot Hale Mon 29 Aug 2022, 10:49 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:https://www.independent.ie/sport/rugby/international-rugby/andy-farrell-set-to-tour-south-africa-with-emerging-ireland-in-september-with-players-to-miss-urc-action-41942286.html?555555


Remembere this.....

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-union/celtic-league-drops-welsh-clubs-after-cup-controversy-492720.html

No comparison. One was an alternative club competition, the other isn’t.
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Post by carpet baboon Mon 29 Aug 2022, 10:58 am

I'm sure the English lower league will give the Welsh the perfect KO times they so desperately want.
No Friday night games due to work.
No sat 3pm games as your all playing or volunteering at your local.club
No sat evening games as traveling is hard
No Sunday games due to coaching the kids at the local club and church

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon 29 Aug 2022, 4:19 pm

I think some should watch their tone on here (on both sides), and yes I'm also guilty at times. Others should watch it with the accusations against 'the Welsh' - I know we have mixed feelings about the league in Wales but that's what it is, mixed feelings. Some do enjoy it. That should be considered a warning, otherwise the 'Newport Mafia' will be onto you Wink.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 30 Aug 2022, 11:40 am

-So the best South African players will presumably be missing (again) for the first chunk of the URC season due to the rugby championship.

-The best Welsh players will be missing in late November becuse the WRUin have arranged a fixture outside of the window as per usual.

-The best Scottish players will be missing the week before the November test window becase their Union has arranegd a match outsude the window in late October.

40 Irish players will miss URC games at the beginning of October because they're off to play three fixtures for 'Emerging Ireland' in South Afica.

Pathetic. Between the Unions and the URC the tournament is an absolute shambles.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Tue 30 Aug 2022, 11:46 am

Do you like any rugby that you watch?

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