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Rugby Championship

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westisbest
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No 7&1/2
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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 06 Aug 2022, 3:58 pm

First topic message reminder :

Couldn't see a thread.

Must say its quite good in a weird way to see Hooper being very honest on his reasoning to pull out of the match. Talking about mental health slowly getting there.

I'm going to go rogue and pick 2 away victories today. Watch South Africa win by 50 now.

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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 24 Aug 2022, 10:33 am

mikey_dragon wrote:Scott Barrett is a good all-rounder, and they have Retallick to come back at some point. I think Whitelock is a bit past it tbh. The back-row needs Ardie at 7 and a No.8 at No.8, even though Ardie is doing great there he's only accomodating Cane.

I honestly think that Retallick is more past it than Whitelock. Retallick seems to get his fair share of injuries and its been a while since I've seen him have a really good game.

Whitelock had a stormer v SA in Ellis park by contrast.

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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 24 Aug 2022, 10:38 am

Really looking forward to the match on Saturday NZ v Argentina. Argentina have some serious talent, Gallo is a total baller in the front row and then you have players like Matera, Isa, Lavanini, Creevy and Kremer who are all beasts. They also have some really slippy backs in Bofelli, Imhoff and De La Fuente and decent half backs too. I expect NZ to win but it will be fun to watch.

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Post by Rugby Fan Wed 24 Aug 2022, 10:49 am

NZ response to Foster's reappointment has been mixed. More people seem willing to back him now, as he has the support of the players, and Joe Schmidt gives them confidence that there's a leading rugby thinker on the case.

The fear is that Robertson goes elsewhere. Well, not so much that he goes elsewhere; more that he does, so and succeeds, at the expense of the All Blacks.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 24 Aug 2022, 11:51 am

Collapse2005 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:Scott Barrett is a good all-rounder, and they have Retallick to come back at some point. I think Whitelock is a bit past it tbh. The back-row needs Ardie at 7 and a No.8 at No.8, even though Ardie is doing great there he's only accomodating Cane.

I honestly think that Retallick is more past it than Whitelock. Retallick seems to get his fair share of injuries and its been a while since I've seen him have a really good game.

Whitelock had a stormer v SA in Ellis park by contrast.

That's just bad luck with injuries, once he's in he is always good. They have Patrick Tuipulotu too, I always rated this guy. Whitelock was good in the SA second test, up to that point not really. Maybe their lock options aren't bad after all.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 24 Aug 2022, 11:51 am

Rugby Fan wrote:NZ response to Foster's reappointment has been mixed. More people seem willing to back him now, as he has the support of the players, and Joe Schmidt gives them confidence that there's a leading rugby thinker on the case.

The fear is that Robertson goes elsewhere. Well, not so much that he goes elsewhere; more that he does, so and succeeds, at the expense of the All Blacks.

Robertson is Wales' No.1 target. If we fail then it's Leon McDonald.

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Post by MichaelT Wed 24 Aug 2022, 12:10 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:NZ response to Foster's reappointment has been mixed. More people seem willing to back him now, as he has the support of the players, and Joe Schmidt gives them confidence that there's a leading rugby thinker on the case.

The fear is that Robertson goes elsewhere. Well, not so much that he goes elsewhere; more that he does, so and succeeds, at the expense of the All Blacks.

Robertson is Wales' No.1 target. If we fail then it's Leon McDonald.

As a query on coaching in general - apart from Ireland, are there any coaches in tier 1 teams who will be in place post the world cup?

Between coaching changes and a raft of names feasibly retiring, its going to be an interesting period for everyone.

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Post by mikey_dragon Wed 24 Aug 2022, 12:24 pm

I think Eddie Jones and the RFU are still discussing a pay-rise, but he's expected to remain in post until 2030.

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Post by Collapse2005 Wed 24 Aug 2022, 1:10 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:
Rugby Fan wrote:NZ response to Foster's reappointment has been mixed. More people seem willing to back him now, as he has the support of the players, and Joe Schmidt gives them confidence that there's a leading rugby thinker on the case.

The fear is that Robertson goes elsewhere. Well, not so much that he goes elsewhere; more that he does, so and succeeds, at the expense of the All Blacks.

Robertson is Wales' No.1 target. If we fail then it's Leon McDonald.

I can see him going to Wales after the RWC, maybe England if they change their policy to select an English coach.

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 7:03 am

I haven't seen the Springboks play this fast and loose in a long time! Hasn't worked out so well 20 minutes in..

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 7:14 am

Boks back to their DNA - pressure and penalties, although not so good on the points still

Harsh yellow for wallabies - ref was shouting 'no' and looking at the SA player trying to take the quick tap! Saying that, not sure what Wright was trying to achieve anyway.

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 7:18 am

Ref calls ball in the ruck as out even though it was in front of a bound player's foot picard

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 7:24 am

Huge pressure from Springboks camped in the Wallabies 22 for a good 15 minutes, multiple penalties from Wallabies - still no points!

Koroibete absolutely cannonball tackle Mapimpi into touch

If Wallabies can hold out until halftime it will be a remarkable result

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 7:27 am

Harsh yellow on Faf although also pretty stupid from him. Being his usual pain in the arse and needlessly slapping White while trying to disruspt the scrum, who absolutely milked it.

Penalty would have been a more reasonable outcome.

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Post by Mr Fishpaste Sat 27 Aug 2022, 7:32 am

That was a ridiculous yellow. Nic White should have been carded for bringing the game into disrepute. If WR don't send a clear message...we'll be watching football antics all game

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 7:39 am

It's been a remarkably loose half from the Boks, with plenty errors. If Wallabies score early in the 2nd half it'll be a real test for them to play catch-up - something that doesn't come naturally to them

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Post by Mr Fishpaste Sat 27 Aug 2022, 7:43 am

The Boks are showing a remarkable ability to dominate a game and yet not score...so many dropped passes and missed kicks

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 7:51 am

Koroibete is an incredible rugby player.

The ARU desperately need to get him back playing in Australia as him not being available for the November tests is a major issue.

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 8:01 am

Ooft what a try wallabies!

White has run that loop around move at least 10 times this game but this time it was a dummy - very clever play.

Long way back for the Boks.

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 8:08 am

Wallabies completely in control now. Been a poor display from SA.

Huge shift from the Wallabies pack.

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 8:21 am

Bit naive from the Wallabies continuing to play so loose when the rules are you need 4 clear tries to get a BP, which they had.

Been a chaotic 5 minutes!

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 8:23 am

Utterly bizzare TMO intervention after the try is scored and conversion kicked for a potential deliberate knock on earlier in the play....!

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 8:27 am

How is Steyn still a genuine option for the Boks, who have some of the greatest depth in world rugby!

He much much from the Andy Goode school of physique these days

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 8:29 am

Late Springboks try puts a band aid on what was actually a very comfortable Wallabies win in the end.

South Africa really don't like playing in Australia! Haven't won since 2013 in Aus

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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 8:42 am

Did they forget the orchestra in Christchurch? Shocked

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Post by Duty281 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 9:55 am

Argies hit the front with 31 minutes left.

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Post by Poorfour Sat 27 Aug 2022, 9:56 am

Poor call by the ref against Argentina there, but an excellent kick chase sees them come out ahead on the penalty.
The ABs have threatened to pull away a couple of times but discipline and handling are letting them down.
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Post by Poorfour Sat 27 Aug 2022, 10:01 am

A very strong scrummaging performance undone by an obstruction. I think overall this ref is just slightly too pernickety, but I approve of seeing the mail setup correctly policed
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Post by Poorfour Sat 27 Aug 2022, 10:23 am

Looking tough for the All Blacks now.

And yes, commentary team, Eddie Jones has beaten the All Blacks with two different countries. In two RWC semi finals.
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Post by Poorfour Sat 27 Aug 2022, 10:36 am

Congratulations Argentina - fantastic result, and really well deserved.
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Post by RDW Sat 27 Aug 2022, 10:36 am

Ooft what's going on with the ABs

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Post by Duty281 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 10:37 am

Amazing! First ever win for Argentina in NZ, built on awesome defence. Top of the table now, I think. If it hadn't been for that rubbish last twenty v Aus in the first game, they'd be 3 from 3.

Still strange to watch a disjointed NZ team that are so unsure of themselves with ball in hand. The bitter recriminations will reopen for the Kiwis, all the good after the SA result has now gone.

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Post by Poorfour Sat 27 Aug 2022, 10:38 am

Oddly, their scrum performed well today but they were unusually poor at the breakdown
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Post by George Carlin Sat 27 Aug 2022, 10:40 am

Big shout out to the Wallabies. A steady, controlled performance of a kind I haven't seen them deliver in a while. Boks looked completely off colour.

Surely nobody can complain about the Faf de Klerk girlie slap? I like the fact it was a card. What does it say if that kind of thing doesn't deserve a sanction? If not, we'd be debating whether an open hand strike is a punch or a slap and whether there is a meaningful difference. Faf clearly thought he could borrow the child size version of the McCaw Invisibility Cloak.
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Post by Duty281 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 10:44 am

Aussies definitely deserved the win v SA, but I thought the officiating in that one was atrocious. No problems with Faf's YC, but Koroibete was fortunate to stay on the field.

It's been a strange tournament for SA, they were near ruthless in the first game, but the last two matches they've played the performance levels haven't even been half as good.

Next week's games are superbly set up.

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Post by Galted Sat 27 Aug 2022, 11:12 am

After the first round I wouldn't have picked the Argies to be top and SA bottom 2 rounds later.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 27 Aug 2022, 12:08 pm

Wow what a win for Argentina. All Blacks are not themselves but the rest of the rugby world won’t mind…

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Post by Sgt_Pooly Sat 27 Aug 2022, 12:44 pm

And it just keeps getting worse for NZ....that's an awful result for them.

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Post by doctor_grey Sat 27 Aug 2022, 2:52 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:And it just keeps getting worse for NZ....that's an awful result for them.
On the other hand, great game for Argentina. And with clear upside, to boot. To me, this is great.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 27 Aug 2022, 3:15 pm

Kremer and Matera are quality players mind.

Cheika was involved in Argentina's first ever win over NZ. Now he's the head coach, and Arg have their first win in NZ! I remember all the stick NZ fans and press used to give him, a lot of it come across as personal and nasty. I bet Cheika is having a good laugh right now.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sat 27 Aug 2022, 8:26 pm

These results add some colour to the summer games.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 27 Aug 2022, 10:24 pm

Bertranou might be the best 9 in world rugby.

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Post by king_carlos Sun 28 Aug 2022, 12:27 am

I said back in June on the old "England post 2022 6Ns, etc" thread that I can see this Argentina side coming together in the RWC.

It's a very experienced group of players with a quality pack, depth in important areas and a smattering of youngsters. I also think they frequently look terrible early in tournaments or tours but improve massively by the end. Which makes complete sense given how hard Argentine rugby was hit by covid and their more limited time together before tournaments. If given a decent run together before and through the RWC I could see them looking very good. Take for instance:

1.Chapparo 2.Montoya 3.Kodelo 4.Lavanini 5.Alemanno 6.Gonzalez 7.Kremer 8.Matera
9.Bertranou 10.Carreras 11.Boffelli 12.Orlando 13.Moroni 14.Cordero 15.Mallia

16.Creevy 17.Gallo 18.Scalvi 19.Petti 20.Isa 21.Cubelli 22.Sanchez 23.de la Fuente

Then players such as Grondona who's a big talent in the back row. Socino is a decent hooker these days if Creevy doesn't make it. Cinti, a very rounded player, isn't even in there. Matteo Carreras is a live wire young winger. Imhoff and Delguy could even come back into contention.

It's a really experienced, quality group of players with lots of lineout options and a pack full of carriers. In Moroni, Orlandi and de la Fuente they have a group of midfielders to build a rock solid defence around too. It just looks like a mix that could do well in a RWC.

Whilst they may not have the same exceptional first choice props as they once did the depth is there again. After those named above you have Vivas and Gigena at LH, Medrano and Bello at TH.

A final note for Juan Martin Gonzalez who is becoming an unsung gem for them in the back row. With Matera, Isa and the two fantastic second row/back rows in Kremer and Petti you can overlook Gonzalez easily but he is becoming such a consistent performer for them.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sun 28 Aug 2022, 11:10 am

Montoya is really knitting that side together as captain, his performance against NZ was incredible and was an example for his pack to follow. The Pumas seem to be playing more to their strength these days, a more organised defence with that very physical team goes together nicely.

Agree with KC, there's bags of experience in there and young talent coming up behind them. With the game plan coming together they'll be a force.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Sun 28 Aug 2022, 11:34 am

It looks pretty good for them up to the semis and then who knows.

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Post by Rugby Fan Mon 29 Aug 2022, 8:28 am

"The Breakdown", with John Kirwan, Jeff Wilson, and Mils Muliaina



Kirwan chides the other two for overreacting to the victory in South Africa, saying there's still a disconnect between the players and NZRU, which is hanging over the rugby in the country.

Wilson seems to argue that interational rugby has become more about defence, which the All Blacks have been slow to accommodate. That struck me as counter to what some coaches in the North have started to say. The mantra used to be about letting the other side have the ball, and profiting from mistakes. The balance seemed to shift back to the attacking game, with France in the vanguard.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 29 Aug 2022, 8:47 am

France do kick a lot. It's not about playing without the ball but not wanting to waste energy playing in the wrong areas. NZ play from deep a lot and some of the tries they've given away have been because they've been pr@tting around in their own half rather than clearing their lines and resetting.

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Post by Poorfour Mon 29 Aug 2022, 10:36 am

formerly known as Sam wrote:France do kick a lot. It's not about playing without the ball but not wanting to waste energy playing in the wrong areas. NZ play from deep a lot and some of the tries they've given away have been because they've been pr@tting around in their own half rather than clearing their lines and resetting.

It’s almost an inversion of their traditional styles of play. That said, I think the point on the field at which it’s worth playing versus kicking the ball away has shifted a bit, and sides are in the process of finding the right balance between when to attack and when to kick. We may see some quite different tactics emerge before the RWC.

In 2019, the teams that had a settled style of play at this point - particularly Ireland and the All Blacks - ultimately did worse than those who had major change closer to the tournament. England under Eddie were still adapting to a new gameplan (as they are again this time around) and South Africa were in disarray.

It will be interesting to see if something similar happens this time around. At the moment France and Ireland look reasonably settled in their game plan and it’s England and the RC sides who are going through some changes.
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Post by formerly known as Sam Mon 29 Aug 2022, 5:20 pm

Poorfour wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:France do kick a lot. It's not about playing without the ball but not wanting to waste energy playing in the wrong areas. NZ play from deep a lot and some of the tries they've given away have been because they've been pr@tting around in their own half rather than clearing their lines and resetting.

It’s almost an inversion of their traditional styles of play. That said, I think the point on the field at which it’s worth playing versus kicking the ball away has shifted a bit, and sides are in the process of finding the right balance between when to attack and when to kick. We may see some quite different tactics emerge before the RWC.

I think that is always likely to be team dependent, certain strengths and weaknesses suit the kick heavy game more than others. I think what we will see is more disguise and subtlety around kicking, particularly the box kicks. SA have the best kick chase in world rugby but because it's often a pretty pedestrian build up to the kick and often on the back of a forward carry opposition backs are normally waiting in force. Switch plays from lineout mauls to pull up the blindside winger cause a less specialist player to be covering the kick for instance should become more standardised.

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Post by Margin_Walker Mon 29 Aug 2022, 7:53 pm

king_carlos wrote:

A final note for Juan Martin Gonzalez who is becoming an unsung gem for them in the back row. With Matera, Isa and the two fantastic second row/back rows in Kremer and Petti you can overlook Gonzalez easily but he is becoming such a consistent performer for them.

He's been a superb signing for LI. Still only 21, so has a pretty high ceiling, given he already look right at home at the highest level.

Really nice blend of traditional back row play with superb pace to act as a link man and get on the end of breaks. Very unassuming with it as well, which is nice. Often looks almost embarrassed to be as good as he is.

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Post by Rugby Fan Wed 31 Aug 2022, 12:04 pm

Handre Pollard and Lukhanyo Am are out of the rest of the Rugby Championship.

https://www.planetrugby.com/springboks-handre-pollard-and-lukhanyo-am-ruled-out-for-remainder-of-rugby-championship-sent-to-leicester-tigers-and-sharks/

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