Scotland 6N lookahead

First topic message reminder :

Results in aggregate this year for the national team were:

5 February 2022 - Scotland 20–17 England
12 February 2022 - Wales 20–17 Scotland
26 February 2022 - Scotland 17–36 France
12 March 2022 - Italy 22–33 Scotland
19 March 2022 - Ireland 26–5 Scotland
2 July 2022 - Argentina 26–18 Scotland
9 July 2022 - Argentina 6–29 Scotland
16 July 2022 - Argentina 34–31 Scotland
29 October 2022 - Scotland 15–16 Australia
5 November 2022 - Scotland 28–12 Fiji
13 November 2022 - Scotland 23–31 New Zealand
19 November 2022 - Scotland 52–29 Argentina

P 12 W 5 L 7

The Ruck reporting that Gregor considering Fin Smith for 6Ns so that isn't good news for Hastings or Kinghorn if the 10s are going to be Finn Russell, Ben Healy and Fin Smith.

Btw Happy New Year guys/girls, let 2023 be a good year for us . As you know, I'm always optimistic when it comes to Scotland so I see no reason to change lol.

Well with the injury to Thompson and the slightly indifferent firm of Hastings post injury, there may well be a vacancy for a FH spot.

It's not going to be Healy atm, he is one for the future if he does commit to Edinburgh, he has allegedly been offerred a contract.

Much more likely to be Fiin Smith if Tooney has talked him round but i guess we will see.

George Horne seems to have risen to the challenge of Cooney possible arrival and has upped his game massively in recent times, you would say he is Glasgow starting SH atm and it might be Price who is struggling to get picked.

Horne interestingly is also a decent goal kicker. Which is one of the boxes that Cooney ticks as well.

My own preference is that we should stick with what we have got and not bring JC in.

Munster now admitting that Healy may be on his way out. I'm guessing Edinburgh is the most logical destination given I can't imagine VDW is being offered a contract extension.

If he can be a decent club player for Edinburgh that's a good enough start - Scotland honours should only come if he earns it!

https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/130611110/who-will-be-coaching-the-all-blacks-australia-and-scotland-in-2024

Just found this article whilst browsing newsnow Scottish rugby so read into it what you will :O. I still think Robertson is a pipe dream so it could well be Leon McDonald though I know nothing about him or how his teams play etc.

Highland Shaun wrote:https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/130611110/who-will-be-coaching-the-all-blacks-australia-and-scotland-in-2024

Just found this article whilst browsing newsnow Scottish rugby so read into it what you will :O. I still think Robertson is a pipe dream so it could well be Leon McDonald though I know nothing about him or how his teams play etc.  

Leon MacDonald has apparently been fielding a lot of calls. Tigers were speaking to him before Borthwick's appointment as the expected the RFU to come for Steve in the summer. MacDonald started as assistant coach and then took over as head coach turning the Auckland Blues from the most high profile failure in NZ rugby to the second best team in the competition (losing out to the Crusaders in the final).

I don't watch loads of Kiwi rugby but the Blues have got a big and mobile pack playing some nice varied rugby with a number of young guys coming through and being capped by the ABs. Not got the profile of Robertson so might not be ready for an international job but as an international assistant or club head coach up in the NH that could well be on the cards.

BigGee wrote:...
Much more likely to be Fiin Smith if Tooney has talked him round but i guess we will see.

...

Would be surprised if Fin Smith lines up for you this Calcutta Cup given he was training with England in the AIs. Unless BOrthwick for some reason doesn't like him. I can well imagine that he will be on England's bench for the Calcutta Cup given our FH injuries.

At best, he would likely be the third choice for either England or Scotland atm.

I watched him play for Saints at the weekend game and he still makes plenty errors that would be badly exposed at international level, despite his obvious potential.

I can't see either coach having him in a 6N matchday squad atm, unless they were forced by injury.

I guess his decision will be based on where he sees his future going probably more than getting into a current 6N/WC squad.

If all are fit, hard to see Borthwick not going with a Farrell/Smith/Ford FH lineup for the foreseeable

RDW wrote:Munster now admitting that Healy may be on his way out. I'm guessing Edinburgh is the most logical destination given I can't imagine VDW is being offered a contract extension.

If he can be a decent club player for Edinburgh that's a good enough start - Scotland honours should only come if he earns it!

If he can still play well with pyrgos in front of him then we're on to a winner.

More optimistic about him than our other recent one hit journeyman candidates such as Van Der Walt. For me it'd be a straight shootout between him and Jordan for back up squad spot. As it currently stands Jordan is ahead but Healy did have a very good last outing for Munster. I think he also got potm?

Highland Shaun wrote:https://i.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/130611110/who-will-be-coaching-the-all-blacks-australia-and-scotland-in-2024

Just found this article whilst browsing newsnow Scottish rugby so read into it what you will :O. I still think Robertson is a pipe dream so it could well be Leon McDonald though I know nothing about him or how his teams play etc.  

Cully is the main rugby writer for the Sydney Morning Herald so he knows his stuff.

Interesting that so much of coaching availability depends on post-RWC appointments. I like the association of both Robertson and McDonald. I really rate Leon McDonald. The Blues went from being the worst franchise in NZ to the best in 2 years. He can pick talent out, there's no question.

Nice little feature on Sean Maitland:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/international/130891721/kiwi-wing-sean-maitland-continues-to-score-for-top-english-club-in-18th-pro-rugby-season?dicbo=v2-d3c57ecc5123e2a3c2fac161639c8b4a

I like that he's correctly being held up as a success story of what you can achieve if you elect not to scrap for a few All Blacks caps as a wing three quarter. He's a real export success story and I'm sure has encouraged a lot of other SANZAR players to try playing abroad.

NeilyBroon wrote:

RDW wrote:Munster now admitting that Healy may be on his way out. I'm guessing Edinburgh is the most logical destination given I can't imagine VDW is being offered a contract extension.

If he can be a decent club player for Edinburgh that's a good enough start - Scotland honours should only come if he earns it!

If he can still play well with pyrgos in front of him then we're on to a winner.

More optimistic about him than our other recent one hit journeyman candidates such as Van Der Walt. For me it'd be a straight shootout between him and Jordan for back up squad spot. As it currently stands Jordan is ahead but Healy did have a very good last outing for Munster. I think he also got potm?

Jordan got 2 more years to qualify unfortunately, so he can continue to develop at Glasgow without any pressure. On his current trajectory he should be well ready by the time he gets there.

BigGee wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:

RDW wrote:Munster now admitting that Healy may be on his way out. I'm guessing Edinburgh is the most logical destination given I can't imagine VDW is being offered a contract extension.

If he can be a decent club player for Edinburgh that's a good enough start - Scotland honours should only come if he earns it!

If he can still play well with pyrgos in front of him then we're on to a winner.

More optimistic about him than our other recent one hit journeyman candidates such as Van Der Walt. For me it'd be a straight shootout between him and Jordan for back up squad spot. As it currently stands Jordan is ahead but Healy did have a very good last outing for Munster. I think he also got potm?

Jordan got 2 more years to qualify unfortunately, so he can continue to develop at Glasgow without any pressure. On his current trajectory he should be well ready by the time he gets there.

Ah I always get confused, I thought he'd been around the super 6 for ages before Glasgow but I guess that's only about 3 years old!

Definitely looks like he could be a handy option, I'm presuming by that point Hastings or Kinghorn will be our first choice, although who knows what Russell will do!

In that case I'm much more pro parachuting Healy in. Honestly think he's the best of our non injured options and worth the punt. Can't be worse than using a full back at flyhalf.

NeilyBroon wrote:

BigGee wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:

RDW wrote:Munster now admitting that Healy may be on his way out. I'm guessing Edinburgh is the most logical destination given I can't imagine VDW is being offered a contract extension.

If he can be a decent club player for Edinburgh that's a good enough start - Scotland honours should only come if he earns it!

If he can still play well with pyrgos in front of him then we're on to a winner.

More optimistic about him than our other recent one hit journeyman candidates such as Van Der Walt. For me it'd be a straight shootout between him and Jordan for back up squad spot. As it currently stands Jordan is ahead but Healy did have a very good last outing for Munster. I think he also got potm?

Jordan got 2 more years to qualify unfortunately, so he can continue to develop at Glasgow without any pressure. On his current trajectory he should be well ready by the time he gets there.

Ah I always get confused, I thought he'd been around the super 6 for ages before Glasgow but I guess that's only about 3 years old!

Definitely looks like he could be a handy option, I'm presuming by that point Hastings or Kinghorn will be our first choice, although who knows what Russell will do!

In that case I'm much more pro parachuting Healy in. Honestly think he's the best of our non injured options and worth the punt. Can't be worse than using a full back at flyhalf.

Oh sweet mother of God NO!!!

Well, some pretty strong hints on the internet that the Ben Healy transfer to Edinburgh is a done deal and he is going to go straight into the Scotland squad as well.

That would likely make our 6N FHs Russell, Blairhorn and Healy, with Hastings as the next cab off the rank if anyone gets injured.

A bit tough on Hastings it would seem, but he has not played for a couple of months till last week and looked a little rusty it is fair to say. They did not pick him this week.

Healy showed what he can do by coming on, scoring a try and kicking the winning goal against Ulster, claiming MoM to boot.


There is going to be a considerable amount of intrigue over the 6N selection this time around.

I have now seen other rumours that Healy is in fact going to come to Glasgow now and that Ross Thompson will go the other way down the M8.

That might make more sense from a balancing up perspective, with Healy and BK being seen as the 2 starting FHs and Thompson and Jordan backing them up.

It is getting even more intriguing.

Very few announcements about signings for next year and none at all from Glasgow, which is most unlike previous years, when both clubs liked to get early on the bandwagon. It looks like there may be a few pieces of the jigsaw to fall into place before it can all get moving.

As ever, let me just say I cringe so hard in situations like these.
Munster's 3rd choice - Irelands 8th choice? - paid top whack and parachuted into the national squad rather than reinvest in developing our own talent.

And yes, Im well aware we are probably trying as hard as we can, and that identity and opportunity are more fluid than ever, but I grew up watching Scotland beat Ireland 10 times in a row throughout the 90s, and situations like this will always sting.

On the other hand, more competition for Russell who must surely now be 4th choice flyhalf

I am not sure i buy this third best at Munster, 8th best in Ireland stuff.

Players come in and out of fashion and the FH situation in Ireland is massively complicated by the longevity of Sexton and the consequent move of Carberry to shoehorn him into a starting shirt.

Truth is below Sexton, the FH pecking order is still unclear.

What we do know is that BH is a good player, we just don't know yet how good or if he can adapt to international rugby.

BigGee wrote:I am not sure i buy this third best at Munster, 8th best in Ireland stuff.

Players come in and out of fashion and the FH situation in Ireland is massively complicated by the longevity of Sexton and the consequent move of Carberry to shoehorn him into a starting shirt.

Truth is below Sexton, the FH pecking order is still unclear.

What we do know is that BH is a good player, we just don't know yet how good or if he can adapt to international rugby.

He's 3rd choice at Munster. He's behind Carberry, as you say, and he's been leapfrogged by Crowley (2 Ireland caps).
He's behind Ross Byrne (14 caps), Harry Byrne (2 caps), possibly ahead of Frawley (60 Leinster appearances), definitely behind Jack Carty... if it came to it would he get a game for Ireland ahead of Hanrahan or Madigan? Then there's Sexton and Billy Burns and Cooney, and the great unmentionable at London Irish.

And yes, I did need to look some of this up.
It doesn't really matter though as he's clearly in the top 3 or 4 Scottish options, it just sticks in the craw that we are still pursuing a short-term approach rather than taking our medicine properly, and that it's hard to get behind a guy that has turned us down at least once already. Get him in at Edinburgh to do a job, sure, but for the sake of my dignity don't cap him (yet).

Mcsweens wrote:

BigGee wrote:I am not sure i buy this third best at Munster, 8th best in Ireland stuff.

Players come in and out of fashion and the FH situation in Ireland is massively complicated by the longevity of Sexton and the consequent move of Carberry to shoehorn him into a starting shirt.

Truth is below Sexton, the FH pecking order is still unclear.

What we do know is that BH is a good player, we just don't know yet how good or if he can adapt to international rugby.

He's 3rd choice at Munster. He's behind Carberry, as you say, and he's been leapfrogged by Crowley (2 Ireland caps).
He's behind Ross Byrne (14 caps), Harry Byrne (2 caps), possibly ahead of Frawley (60 Leinster appearances), definitely behind Jack Carty... if it came to it would he get a game for Ireland ahead of Hanrahan or Madigan? Then there's Sexton and Billy Burns and Cooney, and the great unmentionable at London Irish.

And yes, I did need to look some of this up.
It doesn't really matter though as he's clearly in the top 3 or 4 Scottish options, it just sticks in the craw that we are still pursuing a short-term approach rather than taking our medicine properly, and that it's hard to get behind a guy that has turned us down at least once already. Get him in at Edinburgh to do a job, sure, but for the sake of my dignity don't cap him (yet).

I think there are a few more shades of grey to it than that.

There is Sexton, then Carberry and then a pack of wanabes following behind.

In truth I don't know these players well enough to judge them but I imagine that they are all pretty good and that ranking is not set in stone.


It is a bit academic really in any case, as you say, wherever he is ranked in Ireland, he is going to be ranked higher in Scotland. He is not going to walk into the match day squad immediately, baring injuries, but he is going to be in the conversation. He is SQ via his mother and so if he is good enough, he should be picked. Like all the other dual qualified players, he will have squared his dilemma by then and I don't think that is ever easy.

https://www.the42.ie/ben-healy-6-5959998-Jan2023/

A little bit of Irish context on the move and maybe why it might be happening now.

BigGee wrote:

Mcsweens wrote:

BigGee wrote:I am not sure i buy this third best at Munster, 8th best in Ireland stuff.

Players come in and out of fashion and the FH situation in Ireland is massively complicated by the longevity of Sexton and the consequent move of Carberry to shoehorn him into a starting shirt.

Truth is below Sexton, the FH pecking order is still unclear.

What we do know is that BH is a good player, we just don't know yet how good or if he can adapt to international rugby.

He's 3rd choice at Munster. He's behind Carberry, as you say, and he's been leapfrogged by Crowley (2 Ireland caps).
He's behind Ross Byrne (14 caps), Harry Byrne (2 caps), possibly ahead of Frawley (60 Leinster appearances), definitely behind Jack Carty... if it came to it would he get a game for Ireland ahead of Hanrahan or Madigan? Then there's Sexton and Billy Burns and Cooney, and the great unmentionable at London Irish.

And yes, I did need to look some of this up.
It doesn't really matter though as he's clearly in the top 3 or 4 Scottish options, it just sticks in the craw that we are still pursuing a short-term approach rather than taking our medicine properly, and that it's hard to get behind a guy that has turned us down at least once already. Get him in at Edinburgh to do a job, sure, but for the sake of my dignity don't cap him (yet).

I think there are a few more shades of grey to it than that.

There is Sexton, then Carberry and then a pack of wanabes following behind.

In truth I don't know these players well enough to judge them but I imagine that they are all pretty good and that ranking is not set in stone.


It is a bit academic really in any case, as you say, wherever he is ranked in Ireland, he is going to be ranked higher in Scotland. He is not going to walk into the match day squad immediately, baring injuries, but he is going to be in the conversation. He is SQ via his mother and so if he is good enough, he should be picked. Like all the other dual qualified players, he will have squared his dilemma by then and I don't think that is ever easy.

Its pretty mental to say that he'd be in ahead of any of Burns, Carty, either Byrne, or Sexton, or any of the Munster guys when he's not being picked regularly at club level. Not saying he wouldnt make it eventually but realistically, barring 5-10 players simultaneously getting injured you'd be looking at a 3 year journey of establishing yourself at club level, winning regularly, then sitting on the bench at the Aviva for a while. Carty, Burns and Byrne have done that, and are the next cabs off the rank I'd say, then you've got Carberry when he gets fit.

I'm not being glib, just cynical, but if he was in a better position at Munster there's no way he'd be moving over. Interesting link you posted - says he would go into the squad straight away. I should be used to this by now, it's a short career and it's a results business, but it takes away a fair chunk of the romance of it all, and moves it all much closer to glorified club rugby.

jimbopip wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:

BigGee wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:

RDW wrote:Munster now admitting that Healy may be on his way out. I'm guessing Edinburgh is the most logical destination given I can't imagine VDW is being offered a contract extension.

If he can be a decent club player for Edinburgh that's a good enough start - Scotland honours should only come if he earns it!

If he can still play well with pyrgos in front of him then we're on to a winner.

More optimistic about him than our other recent one hit journeyman candidates such as Van Der Walt. For me it'd be a straight shootout between him and Jordan for back up squad spot. As it currently stands Jordan is ahead but Healy did have a very good last outing for Munster. I think he also got potm?

Jordan got 2 more years to qualify unfortunately, so he can continue to develop at Glasgow without any pressure. On his current trajectory he should be well ready by the time he gets there.

Ah I always get confused, I thought he'd been around the super 6 for ages before Glasgow but I guess that's only about 3 years old!

Definitely looks like he could be a handy option, I'm presuming by that point Hastings or Kinghorn will be our first choice, although who knows what Russell will do!

In that case I'm much more pro parachuting Healy in. Honestly think he's the best of our non injured options and worth the punt. Can't be worse than using a full back at flyhalf.

Oh sweet mother of God   NO!!!

It's the choice of canellini beans or tinned sweetcorn in the Scottish rugby depth pantry of sadness. That's why a bag of Taytos looks appealing right now!

Therein lies the problem.

Finn Russell = Millionaire Shortbread washed down with Isle Of Jura 10 year old.
Haircut = Cullen Skink; you know it should be really special but it's all style and very little substance.
Blarehorn = Mince and tatties, all the ingredients for a good nutritious, tasty dish but WTF!!!
Meatball = Mince Pie and chips with extra gravy, does exactly what it says.

Really there is no-one else who could feasibly step up against the Boks or Ireland at the World Cup. Tonnie has obviously wakened up at 4am and screamed "Fecc no. Not Blarehorn at 10. Never going to happen." And let's be honest he probably embarked upon the Blare What? Project because he knew before anyone else that Haircut is has flaws in his game deeper than the Marianna trench.

Thompson might have been on course to be an understudy but injuries and lack of game time have snafued that. Saval can't get a start for the Luvvies. No more needs to be said.

So, before decrying Healy just consider an injured Dancer and our 10 options being Blarehorn or Haircut against the Boks.

Hastings should absolutely 100% be our 2nd choice 10 (if TJ is around im sure he'll jump in to disagree!). He's a seasoned pro now who had been successfully steering the ship for Gloucester in the AP, which is as hard a club environment as you can find in terms of week in week out slog.

Yes he's never truly stood out at international level but he's spent most of his career with limited opportunities due to Finn.

It's a shame he was flattened by that Fijian as it would have been interesting to see what would have happened in the remaining games. Would Toonie have called up Finn? I'd not, who would have started in the ABs game?

I'm not saying he's the answer to all our problems but if he's fit and on form, he's a step above all our other backup options (for now).

Hastings should absolutely 100% be our 2nd choice 10 (if TJ is around im sure he'll jump in to disagree!). He's a seasoned pro now who had been successfully steering the ship for Gloucester in the AP, which is as hard a club environment as you can find in terms of week in week out slog.

I haven't seen him play for year or two now but I certainly am not convinced that he is any better than Kinghorn from what I have seen in the past. Maybe his time in England has improved him?

However I would also put Healy on a similar level. good pro, big question marks over his international abilities

It's the last year with Gloucester that he's really stepped up and looked the part, and had been a match winner in a few games earlier in the season.

Again I'm not saying he's the answer, just that he can do a job for us if needed and we're not exactly overflowing with alternatives!

Ta

its a bit of a conundrum because with Finn being one of the best in the world at 10 other candidates will always look second rate in comparison

the one I really feel sorry for is meatball. His career has not been what it should be. Too much time warming benches and injuries at the wrong times means that he never really got the experience and game time he needed to develop fully and its really too late now for him

I still see no place for Healy tho. I suspect the possibility of a scottish cap is being dangled as a carrot to get him to play for the scottish clubs

I shall watch a couple of games with Hastings playing 10 and let you all know what I see

Well that might not be that easy atm. As Carraras seems to have overtaken him as the Gloucester starter during his injury absence.

Healy signs for Edinburgh!

Now that I've got that out of my system - welcome to Edinburgh Ben, I'll be cheering for you!

(I'm in no doubt he lurks on this site like everyone else)

I think he will be a good signing and could well end up being Edinburgh starting FH.

I guess with all the speculation running around, it was best to put it to bed.

That's 3 signings for Edinburgh and none for Glasgow

The conspiracy theorists on the Glasgow Warriors forum will be going into overdrive!

Mcsweens wrote:Now that I've got that out of my system - welcome to Edinburgh Ben, I'll be cheering for you!

(I'm in no doubt he lurks on this site like everyone else)

The entire Scotland team nicknames are derived from Jimbos ramblings on the Glasgow and Edinburgh thread. Healy's time will come soon enough.

NeilyBroon wrote:

Mcsweens wrote:Now that I've got that out of my system - welcome to Edinburgh Ben, I'll be cheering for you!

(I'm in no doubt he lurks on this site like everyone else)

The entire Scotland team nicknames are derived from Jimbos ramblings on the Glasgow and Edinburgh thread. Healy's time will come soon enough.

Im quite looking forward to it. I've already spent 5 minutes of my working day trying to pre-empt Jimbos obscure/clever nickname for him and i just dont have the imagination!

Interesting reading the Munster statement about him leaving (they tried very hard to keep him) and then the comments from Munster fans on their twitter feed.

Whilst they understand his reasons for going, you sense they are very upset about it and not convinced about the logic. They seem to rate him very highly.

NeilyBroon wrote:

Mcsweens wrote:Now that I've got that out of my system - welcome to Edinburgh Ben, I'll be cheering for you!

(I'm in no doubt he lurks on this site like everyone else)

The entire Scotland team nicknames are derived from Jimbos ramblings on the Glasgow and Edinburgh thread. Healy's time will come soon enough.

Henry?

BigGee wrote:Interesting reading the Munster statement about him leaving (they tried very hard to keep him) and then the comments from Munster fans on their twitter feed.

Whilst they understand his reasons for going, you sense they are very upset about it and not convinced about the logic. They seem to rate him very highly.

If henry is as good as we think he is, and half as good as the Munster fans think he is then Blarehorn will struggle to get in at 10.
With ADHD and VDM on the wings Blarehorn will be second choice there.
With Bofelli at 15....

Really great to see him committing to Edinburgh and presumably Scotland as well. He’s the player many Scots fans have been looking for, someone who can control a game and perform well under pressure. Still has to prove he can do it all at international level but I see a lot more potential in Healy than Smith who is very green and not really ready for international rugby.

Will he get a call up to the Scotland squad this 6N? I actually hope he does. He’s not small for a fly half either at 191cm tall.

We are running out of space on this thread guys, anyone fancy starting a new one for the 6N build up?

BigGee wrote:We are running out of space on this thread guys, anyone fancy starting a new one for the 6N build up?

Done

jimbopip wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:

Mcsweens wrote:Now that I've got that out of my system - welcome to Edinburgh Ben, I'll be cheering for you!

(I'm in no doubt he lurks on this site like everyone else)

The entire Scotland team nicknames are derived from Jimbos ramblings on the Glasgow and Edinburgh thread. Healy's time will come soon enough.

Henry?

Judas?

George Carlin wrote:

jimbopip wrote:

NeilyBroon wrote:

Mcsweens wrote:Now that I've got that out of my system - welcome to Edinburgh Ben, I'll be cheering for you!

(I'm in no doubt he lurks on this site like everyone else)

The entire Scotland team nicknames are derived from Jimbos ramblings on the Glasgow and Edinburgh thread. Healy's time will come soon enough.

Henry?

Judas?

Careful now.