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URC Round 5

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Maine man
BigGee
demosthenes
Pot Hale
profitius
Oakdene
mikey_dragon
RugbyFan100
PhilBB
Welshmushroom
LeinsterFan4life
Pete330v2
RiscaGame
jimbopip
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neilthom7
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URC Round 5 Empty URC Round 5

Post by neilthom7 Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:19 pm

Already 5 games in, doesn't time just fly.

All games on Premier Sports, SuperSport, URC Tv and Discovery Plus.

Friday 14th October 2022

Ospreys v DHL Stormers- Swansea.com Stadium, Swansea – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA & SA- BBC Wales
Connacht v Leinster- The Sportsground, Galway – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA & SA- RTÉ


Saturday 15th October 2022

Emirates Lions v Ulster- Emirates Airline Park, Johannesburg – KO 13.00 IRE & UK / 14.00 ITA & SA
Cell C Sharks v Glasgow Warriors- Hollywoodbets Kings Park, Durban – KO 15.05 IRE & UK / 16.05 ITA & SA
Edinburgh Rugby v Benetton- The DAM Health Stadium, Edinburgh – KO 17.15 IRE & UK / 18.15 ITA & SA- Eurosport
Cardiff Rugby v Dragons RFC- Cardiff Arms Park, Cardiff – KO 17.15 IRE & UK / 18.15 ITA & SA
Scarlets v Zebre Parma- Parc y Scarlets, Llanelli – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA & SA- S4C
Munster v Vodacom Bulls- Thomond Park, Limerick – KO 19.35 IRE & UK / 20.35 ITA & SA- TG4

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Post by carpet baboon Wed Oct 12, 2022 6:36 pm

Should Munster be concerned ?

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Post by neilthom7 Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:32 pm

I'd say so, Bulls are flying and Munster have been so poor so far, at least for this weekend Munster should be concerned. I'd imagine there will be a lot of soul searching going on down there.

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Post by jimbopip Wed Oct 12, 2022 8:43 pm

neilthom7 wrote:I'd say so, Bulls are flying and Munster have been so poor so far, at least for this weekend Munster should be concerned.  I'd imagine there will be a lot of soul searching going on down there.

Did you see the Bulls at Scotstoun on Saturday? Flying? Shocked Yes but only in the same way that Truss and Kwarteng are flying in the opinion polls at the moment.


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Post by RiscaGame Thu Oct 13, 2022 5:48 am

Yaaaaaayyy. The inevitable loss to Cardiff has come round quickly.

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Post by Pete330v2 Thu Oct 13, 2022 11:05 am

jimbopip wrote:
neilthom7 wrote:I'd say so, Bulls are flying and Munster have been so poor so far, at least for this weekend Munster should be concerned.  I'd imagine there will be a lot of soul searching going on down there.

Did you see the Bulls at Scotstoun on Saturday? Flying? Shocked Yes but only in the same way that Truss and Kwarteng are flying in the opinion polls at the moment.


Ah but Munster are flying in the same way that Putin is flying in opinion polls. Advantage Bulls Smile

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Post by neilthom7 Thu Oct 13, 2022 6:57 pm

Fair point, they are 5th in the league though with 3 wins out of 4 so not exactly sinking either lol

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Thu Oct 13, 2022 7:13 pm

Another tough game for us this weekend (there aren't many easy ones anymore, let's face it) Connacht usually raise their standards against us, but now this is a must win game for them. Looking forward to all this weekends action.

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Post by Welshmushroom Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:11 am

Yeah think Munster should be worried in general not only because of the Bulls (who away from home are totally beatable).

If they do lose the next 3 which given the opposition they have is totally possible at this stage they would need a hell of a run to make the top 8 after that. We know from last year that 10 wins and probably the same amount of bonus points will get you into the playoffs.

That means after Round 7 with 3 more defeats they would need 9 wins in 11 games. I think that is beyond them given they would still be playing Edinburgh, Ulster and Stormers away.

Think this might be the first year Munster might only qualify for the challenge cup.

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Post by PhilBB Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:51 am

Frank Murphy, having played over 4,700 minutes of rugby for Connacht, refereeing Connacht vs Leinster in Connacht is peak URC.
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Post by RugbyFan100 Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:54 am

PhilBB wrote:Frank Murphy, having played over 4,700 minutes of rugby for Connacht, refereeing Connacht vs Leinster in Connacht is peak URC.

Can't have an Irish side bottom of the league after 5 games. Can't fix it off the pitch? Do it on the pitch.

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Post by PhilBB Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:00 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Frank Murphy, having played over 4,700 minutes of rugby for Connacht, refereeing Connacht vs Leinster in Connacht is peak URC.

Can't have an Irish side bottom of the league after 5 games. Can't fix it off the pitch? Do it on the pitch.

That's strong.

Unless your lot and the Zebras draw, Connacht will be spared bottom place anyway.

Although, conceivably, debt-ridden Munster could be bottom if Zebre and the Turks draw but score four tries each. And the Dragons score 4 tries with a losing bonus point.

We could then see Connacht and Munster in the bottom two spots.......(convoluted).
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Post by RugbyFan100 Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:33 am

PhilBB wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Frank Murphy, having played over 4,700 minutes of rugby for Connacht, refereeing Connacht vs Leinster in Connacht is peak URC.

Can't have an Irish side bottom of the league after 5 games. Can't fix it off the pitch? Do it on the pitch.

That's strong.

Unless your lot and the Zebras draw, Connacht will be spared bottom place anyway.

Although, conceivably, debt-ridden Munster could be bottom if Zebre and the Turks draw but score four tries each. And the Dragons score 4 tries with a losing bonus point.

We could then see Connacht and Munster in the bottom two spots.......(convoluted).

What if Scarlets win, Zebre score a LBP and connacht lose?

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri Oct 14, 2022 10:50 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
PhilBB wrote:Frank Murphy, having played over 4,700 minutes of rugby for Connacht, refereeing Connacht vs Leinster in Connacht is peak URC.

Can't have an Irish side bottom of the league after 5 games. Can't fix it off the pitch? Do it on the pitch.
Leinster had a comfortable win over Connacht the last time Frank was in charge of this fixture... I did groan when I saw his name though. Not because I think he'll be biased but because I detest his reffing style.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:01 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
I did groan when I saw his name though. Not because I think he'll be biased but because I detest his reffing style.

That sums up why the URC is not and will never be a competent 'league'.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:23 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
I did groan when I saw his name though. Not because I think he'll be biased but because I detest his reffing style.

That sums up why the URC is not and will never be a competent 'league'.
Sorry what?

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Post by Welshmushroom Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:20 pm

RiscaGame wrote:Yaaaaaayyy. The inevitable loss to Cardiff has come round quickly.

Just seen the teams named. Think our side looks solid enough up front. Quite happy with the bench too. I think we have a shot at this one for a change. Partly because I don't rate Cardiff's tight 5 at all. Reckon we can pinch this one if Hanrahan kicks his points.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:34 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Yaaaaaayyy. The inevitable loss to Cardiff has come round quickly.

Just seen the teams named.  Think our side looks solid enough up front.  Quite happy with the bench too.  I think we have a shot at this one for a change.  Partly because I don't rate Cardiff's tight 5 at all.  Reckon we can pinch this one if Hanrahan kicks his points.
How has Hanrahan been going for yous? He was a star at u20 level but never lived up to the hype. He was solid enough with Munster though.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:38 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Yaaaaaayyy. The inevitable loss to Cardiff has come round quickly.

Just seen the teams named.  Think our side looks solid enough up front.  Quite happy with the bench too.  I think we have a shot at this one for a change.  Partly because I don't rate Cardiff's tight 5 at all.  Reckon we can pinch this one if Hanrahan kicks his points.
How has Hanrahan been going for yous? He was a star at u20 level but never lived up to the hype. He was solid enough with Munster though.

Very well so far, nothing to complain about!

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri Oct 14, 2022 1:44 pm

Welshmushroom wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Yaaaaaayyy. The inevitable loss to Cardiff has come round quickly.

Just seen the teams named.  Think our side looks solid enough up front.  Quite happy with the bench too.  I think we have a shot at this one for a change.  Partly because I don't rate Cardiff's tight 5 at all.  Reckon we can pinch this one if Hanrahan kicks his points.

Yeah I think we have a slighlty better team. If we lose to them with Priestland, and Turnbull with Seb in the boiler room, we're very crap. Dillon Lewis is on the bench too so he isn't sacked lol.

With us, nah still not sold on Coleman. Dixon spills the ball too much for me, why not just start Max Clarke?

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Post by RiscaGame Fri Oct 14, 2022 2:56 pm

I would’ve started Clark too. I know Hughes scored last weekend, but I thought Clark played well out there and it’s harsh to drop him.

Wouldn’t have expected Rob Evans to have been dropped (even if he did have a bit of a hard time off the ref last week), but our starting front row has been pretty solid and Rhodri did okay last week.

There are a few players on our bench, that can hopefully make a real impact. I’m a bit worried about Coleman there, but obviously that’s all we have for now. I don’t like us not having real ten cover. I know AOB is the cover, but I would rather he stayed at 15.

Looking forward to seeing Llewellyn v Tomkinson, as both have started the season very well, from what I’ve seen. Good test for Dyer against Adams too. I still expect Dragons to be Dragonsy and lose to Cardiff mind.

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Post by PhilBB Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:35 pm

It's nice to see followers of September's Champions have some confidence.

These are normally close games.

The combined winning margin is just 10 points in the last four games at CAP
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Post by Oakdene Fri Oct 14, 2022 3:57 pm

I fancy the Dragons to win this comfortably....so that'll be a Cardiff win.

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Post by profitius Fri Oct 14, 2022 6:56 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Yaaaaaayyy. The inevitable loss to Cardiff has come round quickly.

Just seen the teams named.  Think our side looks solid enough up front.  Quite happy with the bench too.  I think we have a shot at this one for a change.  Partly because I don't rate Cardiff's tight 5 at all.  Reckon we can pinch this one if Hanrahan kicks his points.
How has Hanrahan been going for yous? He was a star at u20 level but never lived up to the hype. He was solid enough with Munster though.

He was typical JJ in the match against munster. Got all his kicks up until the end where he started to miss and his kicking out of hand was as bad as usual.
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Post by RiscaGame Fri Oct 14, 2022 7:48 pm

profitius wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Yaaaaaayyy. The inevitable loss to Cardiff has come round quickly.

Just seen the teams named.  Think our side looks solid enough up front.  Quite happy with the bench too.  I think we have a shot at this one for a change.  Partly because I don't rate Cardiff's tight 5 at all.  Reckon we can pinch this one if Hanrahan kicks his points.
How has Hanrahan been going for yous? He was a star at u20 level but never lived up to the hype. He was solid enough with Munster though.

He was typical JJ in the match against munster. Got all his kicks up until the end where he started to miss and his kicking out of hand was as bad as usual.

Agree. I think that’s why I would have had Sam Davies on the bench tomorrow. To be fair to him, he seems a bit calmer than Davies with ball in hand though.

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Post by RiscaGame Fri Oct 14, 2022 8:06 pm

This Italian chap isn’t doing Ospreys’ scrum any favours.

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Post by Welshmushroom Fri Oct 14, 2022 9:28 pm

A draw in the end. Think Ospreys will rue the chance at the end of the first half when they should have scored through the forwards and decided to pass the ball wide.

Tough conditions tonight so maybe a draw was fair in the end.

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Post by Pot Hale Fri Oct 14, 2022 11:38 pm

Can't believe Frank Murphy let Leinster win despite having played all those games for Connacht.

The multi-team owners are letting standards slip. Number of NIQ players are increasing. Two of the provinces are somehow managing to play worse than the Welsh regions and Zebre despite having tens of millions in wages pumped into them last season.

With the Premiership clubs and management looking completely inept, one wonders if professional rugby can last much longer.
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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat Oct 15, 2022 8:33 am

Pot Hale wrote:Can't believe Frank Murphy let Leinster win despite having played all those games for Connacht.  

The multi-team owners are letting standards slip.   Number of NIQ players are increasing.  Two of the provinces are somehow managing to play worse than the Welsh regions and Zebre despite having tens of millions in wages pumped into them last season.

With the Premiership clubs and management looking completely inept, one wonders if professional rugby can last much longer.  
These acussations of match fixing are hilarious. Frank wasn't too bad, some strange scrum decisions but can't complain too much.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:07 am

To be fair, I do take the point that he shouldn’t be put in that position, because like it or not it could leave fans questioning perceived bias. That includes Connacht, who might feel that they’re getting penalised more, to avoid perceptions of favouritism.

It’s not that hard to avoid, so why not just do it? It avoids an unnecessary discussion. They managed to fly two Irish officials to SA, after all.

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Post by demosthenes Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:43 am


"It’s not that hard to avoid, so why not just do it? It avoids an unnecessary discussion. They managed to fly two Irish officials to SA, after all."

Is the Women's World Cup perhaps affecting ref allocations? I haven't looked at who is reffing what, but if a number of top-grade officials are taken off the URC roster it must make it more difficult to avoid clashes.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:47 am

Ospreys draw with Stormers and Ref!

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Post by RiscaGame Sat Oct 15, 2022 11:56 am

demosthenes wrote:
"It’s not that hard to avoid, so why not just do it? It avoids an unnecessary discussion. They managed to fly two Irish officials to SA, after all."

Is the Women's World Cup perhaps affecting ref allocations?  I haven't looked at who is reffing what, but if a number of top-grade officials are taken off the URC roster it must make it more difficult to avoid clashes.

Perhaps yeah. I did notice Joy Neville was refereeing today, for one.

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 15, 2022 5:03 pm

The real Sharks turned up tonight and devoured Glasgow in Durban!

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sat Oct 15, 2022 6:49 pm

RiscaGame wrote:To be fair, I do take the point that he shouldn’t be put in that position, because like it or not it could leave fans questioning perceived bias. That includes Connacht, who might feel that they’re getting penalised more, to avoid perceptions of favouritism.

It’s not that hard to avoid, so why not just do it? It avoids an unnecessary discussion. They managed to fly two Irish officials to SA, after all.
I agree, I can't understand it myself. The one thing I would say is that refs are like players, they are trying to reach the highest levels of the game too. Them having a bad performance effects that, so I trust they will ref it to the best of their abilities.

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Post by Maine man Sat Oct 15, 2022 6:51 pm

First win for Ulster in South Africa. Scored 19 points when Lions had man in bin.

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:07 pm

Edinburgh turnrd up tonight and demolish Benetton at home tonight.

The magic back three of Graham, Boffelli and DVDM all scored.

They looked a good team tonight

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Post by BigGee Sat Oct 15, 2022 7:11 pm

Quite a few sides looking very good at home and very flakey on the road this season.

Management of squads is going to be very important over the course of the season and to get get up the league, some points away are going to be needed

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Post by Collapse2005 Sat Oct 15, 2022 9:37 pm

Great performance from Munster v the Bulls, great win and good match.

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Post by RiscaGame Sun Oct 16, 2022 7:24 am

Another Cardiff loss, as I suspected. Blufftress has better start roping the dopes in with more takeover talks soon, or this season might start becoming unbearable.

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Post by Old Man Sun Oct 16, 2022 8:47 am

A few observations from a South African perspective.

The SA teams are struggling with maul attacks and maul defenses. This new "roll around the maul defensive tactic without supposed change of the bind" hasflummoxed them all. Imyself struglle to understand how a defensive team can legally roll around both sides of the maul.

The European teams use the same tactic to "tornado drive" their attacking mauls and the SA teams are struggling with it.

There is also a tactic used on attacking back play useing blocks of players to run obstruction lines for moves which this past weekend a number of times were blatant obstruction insofar as there were in some moves as many as four players running these obstruction lines to such an extent that the defence literally has to weave their way through a maze of bodies to get to the ball carrier.

The current law says these "blocking runners" only commit obstruction when they run into a defender, which in my view isbullshit. The Boks were called for obstruction in the RC for one player potentially affecting a Lukhanyo Am break which was verydebatable and a try disallowed. Comparing what I regularly saw this weekend makes me think European referees have disregarded obstructive runners.

From SA team performances:

Stormers look to be the better performing SA team atthis point, but, their scrum is struggling and must be a concern for Dobson. Their rugby is attractive to watch, they do seem to not control matches wel though and aren't dominating territory and possession, especially in the firsthalf, it takes them time to get into a controlling position.

The Sharks are playing skillfull, exciting rugby and on attack they can carve anyone into pieces. However their defence is poor, they got caught out wife against Leinster last weekend and although better yesterday it must be concerning that they keep falling short on the outside. At times their intensity and commitment at the breakdown is lacking and they tend to shoot out of line too early on the outside. Fassi is a defensive concern. I reckon they need a new coach, they aren't yet the sum of their parts.

Lukhanyo will improve their defensive organisation though. Love to watch their matches.

I place Lions third on the totem pole, not because of their results, but because of their tenacity. Yesterday against Ulster they conceded 19 points whilst on a yellow card, and yet fought their way back, even though they lost, they are the epitome of a team fighting above their weight through sheer guts and determination.

They might even make the top eight this season which would be a great achievement for sch a no name team.

I put the Bulls at the bottom because they have been very disappointing. I said beginning of the URC last year that they have traditionally travelledpoorly in Super Rugby and it seems they haven't yet figured out a balance when travelling.

What has been disappointing most of all was in both the last two weekends the supposed Bullsphysicality was nowhere tobe seen. They lost the breakdown contest handsomely. They were out enthused both times and their defense has been poor.

Johan Goosen has not been a revelation at all.

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Post by Old Man Sun Oct 16, 2022 9:53 am

There also remains inconsistencies with head tackles. Kitshoff got a straight hit to the head from a shoulder and it was waved away by the referee.



Then consider the Sazi Sandi red card in round three.


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Post by Unclear Sun Oct 16, 2022 3:24 pm

Old Man wrote:There also remains inconsistencies with head tackles. Kitshoff got a straight hit to the head from a shoulder and it was waved away by the referee.



Then consider the Sazi Sandi red card in round three.


Consistency in decisions remains a big problem. I would agree the hit on Kitshoff was deserving of sanction, probably a yellow in my view. Similarly the the red card on Sanzi seemed harsh to me. I can see arguments for both being red, but I find the Kitshoff tackle gaining no sanction very poor. If head-to-head contact in the tackle is to be eliminated, as seems necessary for the future of the game, then these harsh decisions need to made consistently.

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Post by mikey_dragon Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:41 am

I thought the ref was quite helpful to Stormers in that game, for me Ospreys looked the stronger team and were not rewarded for it on numerous occassions. I'll also add that Craig Evans was abysmal, but I won't say more on that as it'll be interpereted differently.

I thought Basham hurt his shoulder, but on Scrum V it said elbow. He seemed like he was in a lot of pain so I imagine he's out for the forseeable. I'd select Thomas Young for Wales. Jac Morgan will probably miss out again.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon Oct 17, 2022 11:51 am

Old Man wrote:There also remains inconsistencies with head tackles. Kitshoff got a straight hit to the head from a shoulder and it was waved away by the referee.



Then consider the Sazi Sandi red card in round three.


Get used to it. May as well spina wheel. URC officiating is apalling.

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Post by Pete330v2 Mon Oct 17, 2022 12:10 pm

Maine man wrote:First win for Ulster in South Africa. Scored 19 points when Lions had man in bin.

I thought the game management showed a maturity that has been missing in years gone by as well as the collection of points during the Lions yellow card. That buffer was badly needed as the altitude took it's toll on the Ulster players. They were out on their feet and it was squeaky butt time for the last few minutes, if there had been an extra 5 mins they'd have lost.

I don't particularly like the fact that the games like that are played at altitude. It was quite clear that the Ulster players, usually well known for fantastic match fitness were suffering badly from the effects in waves. Even in the first half they were gasping before getting 2nd wind etc.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon Oct 17, 2022 2:52 pm

Is ESPN at war with URC?
https://www.espn.com/rugby/scoreboard?date=20221014
Now fixtures or results seem to exist in the world of ESPN for the URC.

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Post by PhilBB Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:36 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:Is ESPN at war with URC?
https://www.espn.com/rugby/scoreboard?date=20221014
Now fixtures or results seem to exist in the world of ESPN for the URC.

It's a real loss.

URC = Best League, of course.
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Post by thebandwagonsociety Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:41 pm

PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:Is ESPN at war with URC?
https://www.espn.com/rugby/scoreboard?date=20221014
Now fixtures or results seem to exist in the world of ESPN for the URC.

It's a real loss.

URC = Best League, of course.

The forgotten league more like it. Don't know what ESPN are up to.
I'm glad Phil that you approve of the URC but asserting that it's the Best League might be a step too far. What criteria are you applying to this claim?

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Post by PhilBB Mon Oct 17, 2022 3:41 pm

thebandwagonsociety wrote:
PhilBB wrote:
thebandwagonsociety wrote:Is ESPN at war with URC?
https://www.espn.com/rugby/scoreboard?date=20221014
Now fixtures or results seem to exist in the world of ESPN for the URC.

It's a real loss.

URC = Best League, of course.

The forgotten league more like it. Don't know what ESPN are up to.
I'm glad Phil that you approve of the URC but asserting that it's the Best League might be a step too far. What criteria are you applying to this claim?

The claim is a massive Mickey take of many who hold that view.
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