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2022 T20 World Cup thread

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Fri 4 Nov 2022 - 8:53

First topic message reminder :

GSC wrote:Marsh put down, Aus right on the edge

Might have been the turning point of this one
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Sun 6 Nov 2022 - 9:28

KP_fan wrote:SKY is game's first 360deg player

Either him or Buttler are my current favourite white ball bats to watch - just an unbelievable timer of a cricket ball
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Post by alfie Sun 6 Nov 2022 - 9:29

MCG not big enough for these two...going to leave this in your hands , KP_fan. Reckon you have enough already with an over or so to go...

Next stop Wednesday...

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Post by KP_fan Sun 6 Nov 2022 - 9:30

I am hoping one day SKY will play test cricket soon and will have a partnership with Pant...and what a sight that might be
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Post by KP_fan Sun 6 Nov 2022 - 11:15

India win and now it's about fine tuning their best 11

PANT brings the assurance if india is 4 down for.50 chasing 160....Pant has ability to score a 70 and win you that DK absolutely   cannot.

India's spinners in a big concern have appeared least effective.compared to most other sides  ...and gettingeveb 4 overs even between 2 spinners has been a struggle in some.games.

Ashwin has looked relatively less bad ...got some spin too today  and scored a few useful runs too so far ...and will hold his place

India should bring Harshal Patel for semis for Axar Patel ...and that's about it in terms of changes.
He can use seam and an excellent proponent of taking pace off with a variety of slow cutters, bouncers and gripping deliveries
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Post by Duty281 Sun 6 Nov 2022 - 12:07

Didn't dream it then, it really happened. Amazing. Both semi-finals are tough to call and will be very tight games.

Weather for the semi-finals looks absolutely fine, however the forecast for the final is worrying. If the BBC forecast is correct, there is next to zero chance the final will be played next Sunday with the amount of rain around. That's fine, you say, move it to the reserve day - well, there's a fair bit of rain forecast for that day, although it is said to be drying up in the evening, so maybe a chance?

ICC are very close to their dream final and a rematch of 2007. How much will they want it to happen, is the question.

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Post by VTR Sun 6 Nov 2022 - 12:36

KP_fan wrote:SKY is game's first 360deg player

Other than all the other previous ones. But I suppose he has a cheesy/vomit-inducing nickname to elevate the hype levels!

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Post by Duty281 Sun 6 Nov 2022 - 14:04

Duty281 wrote:If Bangladesh and Zimbabwe go on to lose today, I think this result puts the Netherlands straight in the Super 12s in 2024.

The Dutch have qualified, but the format will change for the 2024 T20 World Cup.

20 teams in total (an upgrade from 16); four groups of five (no prelim round); top two go to the Super 8s; two groups of four in the Super 8s; top two in each go to the semis where it becomes a straight knockout.

Means that England, for example, would play a total of nine games if they got to the final, rather than the seven currently. I think this current format is pretty close to perfect, so I'm disappointed they're changing it.

The USA will be co-hosting the 2024 T20 World Cup (with the West Indies), although there's current doubt on them actually hosting games due to financial concerns, so they're one of the 20 qualifiers.

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Post by KP_fan Sun 6 Nov 2022 - 18:45

VTR wrote:
KP_fan wrote:SKY is game's first 360deg player

Other than all the other previous ones. But I suppose he has a cheesy/vomit-inducing nickname to elevate the hype levels!
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Post by KP_fan Sun 6 Nov 2022 - 19:04

Duty281 wrote:Didn't dream it then, it really happened. Amazing. Both semi-finals are tough to call and will be very tight games.

Pak is coming from the brink, has momentum, playing fearless & spirited cricket...and is favorite in my books
Eng v. Ind is an equal contest and I think team winning the toss will bat first and have a slight advantage
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Post by Duty281 Sun 6 Nov 2022 - 22:20

Duty281 wrote:Weather for the semi-finals looks absolutely fine, however the forecast for the final is worrying. If the BBC forecast is correct, there is next to zero chance the final will be played next Sunday with the amount of rain around. That's fine, you say, move it to the reserve day - well, there's a fair bit of rain forecast for that day, although it is said to be drying up in the evening, so maybe a chance?

Just combed through the extensive ICC regulations. Who knew a simple sport involving a bat, a ball, some wickets, and 22 people could be so complicated as to require 100 pages of regulation?! Anyway:

It appears that if the final goes to the reserve day, which judging by the current BBC forecast is a near 100% possibility, then the start time on the reserve day (Monday) will be 15:00 local time. I don't know why it's different to the 19:00 on Sunday, but it is.

The 15:00 start time on Monday presents a problem because it's currently forecast to rain right through the morning and afternoon, although it is drier in the evening. The ICC regulations further state, frustratingly, that the reserve day will have two hours of extra time granted in order to get a result (an upgrade on the current thirty). This means that on the reserve day, I think, there has to be a result achieved by 20:10 local time - the umpires won't go beyond that because it's the law, even though there's plenty of hours in the night beyond that.

The current forecast suggests that a result by then is somewhat unlikely - it's also complicated by the fact that, for the semi-finals and final, there has to be a minimum of 10 overs in each innings, not 5.

So we'll need to hope the forecast improves, otherwise the trophy will be shared (as per regulation 16.10.8; subsection b*). Now for something else:

If any of the three knockout games are tied, there will be a Super Over. If the Super Over is tied, there will be another Super Over, and if that one is tied there will be another etc, however:

1) Any batsmen dismissed in a previous Super Over will be ineligible to bat in future Super Overs. So if England and India is tied and Buttler gets dismissed in the Super Over, he can't bat in the second Super Over.

2) Bowlers can only bowl in one Super Over, a bit like a penalty shootout, I suppose. If England use Mark Wood for the first Super Over, they can't use him for the second or the third etc.

Oh and if any semi-final is a tie due to bad weather taking out both days (very unlikely) the team that topped the respective groups (i.e. NZ/India) will go through to the final.

*Not a joke!

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Post by alfie Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 2:13

Well I wouldn't quite give up on the final just yet , as Melbourne weather can be very fickle ... But , as I posted yesterday , the forecast for next weekend does look very ominous. I don't mind the idea of an afternoon start if it goes to the Monday , as it seems to give more chance for getting a completed game if there are interruptions . Bit puzzled though as to why there would need to be a finish before 8 pm : are you sure about that ? Surely would make more sense to utilise whatever hours are available , no ?

Anyway , worry about that if and when.

Semis could easily go either way. Personally would have India/England fifty-fifty ; with NZ favoured 60/40 over Pakistan . England might be at a slight disadvantage not having played in Adelaide , but they pretty much know their team (apart from doubts over Malan) while India still seem a bit undecided. I agree with KP_fan about Pant ; but not sure Indian management do.

After all the thrills and upsets in the rounds , we can't assume we will get a couple of brilliant close contests ; but we can hope for them...

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Post by eirebilly_01 Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 6:51

I see on the old social media that the Aussie team are being lambasted and accused of waving the white flag after being knocked out. I do not believe that they lacked commitment or drive to win this tournament but I do believe that the selections and coaching got it horribly wrong.
Finch, arguably one of the best T20 batsmen of all time was woefully out of form but as Captain, really could not be dropped. (Will retire I feel).
Warner, past his sell by date and was exposed again. Still cant believe that at his age, he is being touted for Captaincy... (Will try and stay but may be forced out)
Marsh, as good as he is/can be, did not have a great tournament but is worth sticking with.
Maxwell, on his day can be a matchwinner but those days are getting further and further apart.
Stoinis, i really like him but he is also a bit hit and miss.
Wade, like Paine before him, very gobby and rarely backs it up. Not playing Carey was a huge mistake for me.
Cummins, average bowler who gets in due to the odd big hitting for me. Not worth persevering with.

There are much younger and hungrier players for me deserving of a squad position with the Aussies, McDermott, Ellis, Green etc.

Just imagine if they had a decent coach, how good they could be... If i was CA, I would be on the phone to Eoin Morgan right now trying to secure his services. Morgan is exactly what the Aussies need, ruthless, competitive and extremely good at building squads/teams.


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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 8:36

eirebilly_01 wrote:

Just imagine if they had a decent coach, how good they could be... If i was CA, I would be on the phone to Eoin Morgan right now trying to secure his services. Morgan is exactly what the Aussies need, ruthless, competitive and extremely good at building squads/teams.


The ECB need lining up and shooting if they let Morgan go to the Aussies.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 8:40

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
eirebilly_01 wrote:

Just imagine if they had a decent coach, how good they could be... If i was CA, I would be on the phone to Eoin Morgan right now trying to secure his services. Morgan is exactly what the Aussies need, ruthless, competitive and extremely good at building squads/teams.


The ECB need lining up and shooting if they let Morgan go to the Aussies.

100%

As I wrote previously, the ECB should be kicking down Morgan's door right now to get him into the coaching setup. I don't think that they will which is going to benefit a team like the Aussies if they snap him up.

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 8:51

eirebilly_01 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
eirebilly_01 wrote:

Just imagine if they had a decent coach, how good they could be... If i was CA, I would be on the phone to Eoin Morgan right now trying to secure his services. Morgan is exactly what the Aussies need, ruthless, competitive and extremely good at building squads/teams.


The ECB need lining up and shooting if they let Morgan go to the Aussies.

100%

As I wrote previously, the ECB should be kicking down Morgan's door right now to get him into the coaching setup. I don't think that they will which is going to benefit a team like the Aussies if they snap him up.

Yep. I find him such an impressive man. The more I've seen of him away from the field, the more that opinion grows. Understands processes, understands people and clearly understand how to get those threads aligned. Had a vision post 2015 but more importantly, the courage to back that vision even when things were going wrong. Sometimes under extreme pressure when they were getting rolled cheaply in a 50 over game. Didn't compromise and didn't get cowed by pundits or moaning fans. Ends up winning a WC. People will pull 2019 apart and say this was lucky, that was lucky, but they won. Most great teams need some luck. In 4 years they went from laughing stock to WC champions and on the back of his vision. Clearly a natural leader of men. You can never be certain a good player/captain will be a good coach, but he looks about as sure a certainty as you can get to me.

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Post by Pal Joey Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 10:05

Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
eirebilly_01 wrote:
Mind the windows Tino. wrote:
eirebilly_01 wrote:

Just imagine if they had a decent coach, how good they could be... If i was CA, I would be on the phone to Eoin Morgan right now trying to secure his services. Morgan is exactly what the Aussies need, ruthless, competitive and extremely good at building squads/teams.


The ECB need lining up and shooting if they let Morgan go to the Aussies.

100%

As I wrote previously, the ECB should be kicking down Morgan's door right now to get him into the coaching setup. I don't think that they will which is going to benefit a team like the Aussies if they snap him up.

Yep. I find him such an impressive man. The more I've seen of him away from the field, the more that opinion grows. Understands processes, understands people and clearly understand how to get those threads aligned. Had a vision post 2015 but more importantly, the courage to back that vision even when things were going wrong. Sometimes under extreme pressure when they were getting rolled cheaply in a 50 over game. Didn't compromise and didn't get cowed by pundits or moaning fans. Ends up winning a WC. People will pull 2019 apart and say  this was lucky, that was lucky, but they won. Most great teams need some luck. In 4 years they went from laughing stock to WC champions and on the back of his vision. Clearly a natural leader of men. You can never be certain a good player/captain will be a good coach, but he looks about as sure a certainty as you can get to me.

Isn't there a spare pedestal in Trafalgar Square, Tino? I'd get a statue of Captain Morgan up there right away.
He's perhaps the most astute commentator during this world cup too. Most of the others only provide comic relief... or are just plain annoying.

On the Australian team. I've already said they need to put a broom through the side and get rid of some dead wood and chaff. There's a lot of talk here of "they should've seen this coming" and how it's "the curse of previous winners or hosts". Things just weren't right at all and everybody knew it!

Also compounding their inconsistent performances (even though they only lost one match) was the sense that they had other projects on their mind. Namely Finch's retirement, Warner's last chance, Wade's time is coming to an end, Smith's too... plus some non-cricket stuff like Cummins' statement on Alinta Energy as sponsors. It's quite ironic and hypocritical really and the timing couldn't have been worse. It gave the impression that his mind was on other more important things (to him... and maybe Zampa got roped in too) and not on the tournament ahead.

It's ironic, since Alinta has an indigenous name and is backed by a HK company which still has interests in non-renewable energy. So a conflict of culture and economic ideology perhaps? One of his new sponsors or suitors, Longi, are Chinese based solar panel manufacturers who have been implicated in using forced Uyghur labour in Xinjiang... and are obviously mining rare earth elements on a large scale using labour from countries where workers rights, health and safety are certainly not top of the list.

I'm just surprised Pat decided to go down that pathway without acknowledging the reality that coal, gas and oil still account for about 85% of the products he uses everyday just like the rest of us. It was a bit like Maxwell's reverse sweep to a catcher when he looks set - totally unnecessary.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 10:23

Who will be your Captain if Finch retires PJ? I would say that if they kept Wade, it would be him?

If it were me, i would go very young and select Green as captain and build a team around him.

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Post by Pal Joey Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 10:26

Maybe a year or two of Marsh, then Green. We'd need a short period of transition I would say.

I agree with you that Cameron Green has the look and potential of a future Australian captain. He probably needs to put his head down for a little while longer and get some more good T20 performances under his belt.

Don't think they should go with Wade. I don't think he's quite 'all there' upstairs... if you know what I mean. He's a bit long in the tooth too.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 10:34

The frustrating thing is, there is a huge amount of very good white ball players to make a superb team for Australia given the right coach... Maybe even Michael Hussey?

Never even considered Marsh but that is a good call for a transitional period. Him or even Stoinis?

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Post by Duty281 Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 10:56

alfie wrote:Well I wouldn't quite give up on the final just yet , as Melbourne weather can be very fickle ... But , as I posted yesterday , the forecast for next weekend does look very ominous. I don't mind the idea of an afternoon start if it goes to the Monday , as it seems to give more chance for getting a completed game if there are interruptions . Bit puzzled though as to why there would need to be a finish before 8 pm : are you sure about that ? Surely would make more sense to utilise whatever hours are available , no ?

Anyway , worry about that if and when.

Semis could easily go either way. Personally would have India/England fifty-fifty ; with NZ favoured 60/40 over Pakistan . England might be at a slight disadvantage not having played in Adelaide , but they pretty much know their team (apart from doubts over Malan) while India still seem a bit undecided. I agree with KP_fan about Pant ; but not sure Indian management do.

After all the thrills and upsets in the rounds , we can't assume we will get a couple of brilliant close contests ; but we can hope for them...

Yes, but this is cricket: "13.7.3.1 There shall be 30 minutes of extra time allocated to all matches throughout the competition including the semi-finals and the final. However, if the reserve day is used for a semi-final or the final, there shall be 2 hours of extra time allocated to the hours of play for the reserve day."

Anyway, forecast now looks better for Monday, so hope springs eternal.

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Post by Pal Joey Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 11:00

eirebilly_01 wrote:The frustrating thing is, there is a huge amount of very good white ball players to make a superb team for Australia given the right coach... Maybe even Michael Hussey?

Never even considered Marsh but that is a good call for a transitional period. Him or even Stoinis?

I believe Australia, when it comes to T20s, is a bit like India were 10-15 years ago or England 5 years ago. The selectors are still too conservative in their team selection and they tend to keep a core of players (usually Test and ODI players) in the side for longer periods of time. This needs to change.

They need to be more agile and perhaps take a punt on players in hot form in the Big Bash. As you say there is some decent talent here but it must be very frustrating having to wait down the pecking order for years until someone decides to retire or is forced out by other means. Doesn't help our prospects if we are too slow to react and don't take any calculated risks in selecting the best team available.

Or you can look at it from the other side - how much value have those players with long term experience contributed to any success lately? Apart from last year's success (very, very lucky) it has been very up and down performances and yet they are still front of mind for the selectors.

India has successfully managed their selection processes in all three formats. There will always be differences of opinion (just ask KP_Fan) but they have the massive player resources, highly competitive IPL tournament but also the balls to create 3 strong entities in their own right with little cross-over and a higher degree of specialisation - which is precisely what is required to dominate all 3 format of the game.

England are not too far behind but have had to deal with many injuries - but this has the led to them being forced to select some rookie players and expose them to international competition which will benefit them in the medium-long term. Australia, on the other hand, has some catching up to do.

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Post by alfie Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 11:09

Tend to agree with PJ that Marsh might be a good interim appointment. They've already anointed Cummins for the fifty over outfit for next year of course ; but t20 doesn't need to be the same . Green may well be one for the future but no rush for him.

As for the "get Morgan in the England coaching setup" push : the snag is they have a recently appointed white ball coach - and if things go well for him this week he could even have a WC success in his pocket by Sunday. But in any case the job won't be up for grabs for a while ; so if Morgan were keen to get into top level coaching , and Australia came calling...

Of course he may be perfectly happy in the commentary box for now. Could probably make a very good living out of that and some franchise league work , as he certainly has all the right qualities for both !

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Post by eirebilly_01 Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 11:19

With regards to Morgan, i am a bit of a 'mé féiner' in that regard. If he does not join the England set up then maybe the Irish (doubt that though as he is a bit too big for that job).

Who knows though, as alfie says, he may want to just stick with commentary for a while but my gut feeling is, and listening to his commentary, he is still very passionate for this England team and would love to be still involved in a certain capacity.

After the Sri Lanka win, he was clearly not happy and stated that he would be immediately in that changing room going through what England did wrong and not celebrating a victory. That really is the Australian approach and what would make him a superb coach, for anyone, should he choose that path.

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Post by KP_fan Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 11:49

Pal Joey wrote:Isn't there a spare pedestal in Trafalgar Square, Tino? I'd get a statue of Captain Morgan up there right away.
2022 T20 World Cup thread - Page 6 1f605  2022 T20 World Cup thread - Page 6 1f605

Some good observation PJ by you on Aus's selection policy on T20s
They do seem to be keeping a core of big-name / reputed internationals.
Ind only learnt in last 2 years or so to have 3 separate teams at times , at a given time
Eng pioneered this approach.
BUT
Aus is a strong cricketing nation and with a lot of talent so they will learn and fix it soon.
There is a world cup either T20 or 50 over seemingly every year now and hence not enuf time to brood over a lost world cup.

They do need to get rid of Warner, Wade and keep a second and 3rd string of pace bowlers for white ball cricket.
The current situation of Cummins, Josh & Starc for all formats is too fragile
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Post by Pal Joey Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 12:06

KP_fan wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:Isn't there a spare pedestal in Trafalgar Square, Tino? I'd get a statue of Captain Morgan up there right away.
2022 T20 World Cup thread - Page 6 1f605  2022 T20 World Cup thread - Page 6 1f605

Some good observation PJ by you on Aus's selection policy on T20s
They do seem to be keeping a core of big-name / reputed internationals.
Ind only learnt in last 2 years or so to have 3 separate teams at times , at a given time
Eng pioneered this approach.
BUT
Aus is a strong cricketing nation and with a lot of talent so they will learn and fix it soon.
There is a world cup either T20 or 50 over seemingly every year now and hence not enuf time to brood over a lost world cup.

They do need to get rid of Warner, Wade and keep a second and 3rd string of pace bowlers for white ball cricket.
The current situation of Cummins, Josh & Starc for all formats is too fragile

Thanks KP_Fan.

I tend to exaggerate when it comes to time. Yes, it's probably only 2 or 3 years but it feels longer. I bet they started planning much earlier.  Smile

Point is, India reacted more quickly and on a much broader scale to these selection dilemmas and are now bearing the fruits. England has been a bit hobbled by injury these last couple of years and has unearthed some talent. However, it is India who have the remarkable depth in potential players across all formats. The only downside is if they discard someone too early or don't give enough opportunity to someone but there are always many others who seem to be ready to step up and perform under big match pressure.

That's what I've noticed anyway. Even last night - that was a powerful and confident display. Not sure who it was in the dug out... one of the reserve players... but he had this look of supreme confidence on his face. India might fail every now and then but they are most likely to put on a proper show when all the planets align.

I think they are more than 50:50 for the semi. It's just my gut feel that they are super confident in all departments and really know how to get a roll on compared to other teams. The crowd also helps. Alternatively, if they run into trouble and the crowd goes quiet - that can really affect their performance and they can suffer from mini collapses... but not as often as other teams due to their confidence and depth.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 12:16

I actually do not see much between India and England if I am honest. I think that kind of balance each other out and on their day, both can beat each other quite convincingly. I would definitely say it is 50:50.

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Post by Duty281 Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 12:22

I'd probably give a narrow advantage to whoever bats first in India/England, but no more than that. It's being played at Adelaide which has smaller boundaries, so I think that may just be more to England's liking as they have more consistent six-hitters in their line-up. Key is for both teams to get the line-up right - India need to pick Pant, not Karthik; if Malan is out, England need to pick Salt and not change the balance by going for Willey/Jordan.

NZ/Pakistan - no real idea. Probably give the edge to NZ.

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Post by Lowlandbrit Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 12:33

alfie wrote:As for the "get Morgan in the England coaching setup" push : the snag is they have a recently appointed white ball coach - and if things go well for him this week he could even have a WC success in his pocket by Sunday.
Somewhat strangely, England winning is probably the most likely route to Morgan coaching them. More chance Australia try to bring Mott home.

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Post by KP_fan Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 12:37

2022 T20 World Cup thread - Page 6 Whatsa12

360 Deg  View of The 360 Deg Man
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Post by Pal Joey Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 12:57

Duty281 wrote:I'd probably give a narrow advantage to whoever bats first in India/England, but no more than that. It's being played at Adelaide which has smaller boundaries, so I think that may just be more to England's liking as they have more consistent six-hitters in their line-up. Key is for both teams to get the line-up right - India need to pick Pant, not Karthik; if Malan is out, England need to pick Salt and not change the balance by going for Willey/Jordan.

NZ/Pakistan - no real idea. Probably give the edge to NZ.

India have hit 27 sixes to England's 6 though. Most of them on the bigger grounds too. Some pretty clean big hitting there!
No doubt Hales, Buttler and co. can cash in Thursday at AO. Long straight boundaries and much shorter square.
However in this tournament so far, India have been hitting sixes more consistently.

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Post by VTR Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 13:06

An India/Pakistan shared trophy would be the ultimate sporting troll event. Part of me thinks please don't let it happen, as I'm not even sure the arguments over the 2007 final have quite concluded. Another part of me thinks the social media fallout would be high entertainment

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Post by Mind the windows Tino. Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 13:17

Pal Joey wrote:

Isn't there a spare pedestal in Trafalgar Square, Tino? I'd get a statue of Captain Morgan up there right away.

There is, Pee Jay, but that is currently reserved for Eddie Jones.....

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Post by Duty281 Mon 7 Nov 2022 - 22:33

Pal Joey wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I'd probably give a narrow advantage to whoever bats first in India/England, but no more than that. It's being played at Adelaide which has smaller boundaries, so I think that may just be more to England's liking as they have more consistent six-hitters in their line-up. Key is for both teams to get the line-up right - India need to pick Pant, not Karthik; if Malan is out, England need to pick Salt and not change the balance by going for Willey/Jordan.

NZ/Pakistan - no real idea. Probably give the edge to NZ.

India have hit 27 sixes to England's 6 though. Most of them on the bigger grounds too. Some pretty clean big hitting there!
No doubt Hales, Buttler and co. can cash in Thursday at AO. Long straight boundaries and much shorter square.
However in this tournament so far, India have been hitting sixes more consistently.

Yes, the Indians are definitely in better form, but I think the English have a higher ceiling of potential in that regard and they may enjoy playing at Adelaide that little bit more.

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Post by alfie Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 2:12

Duty281 wrote:
Pal Joey wrote:
Duty281 wrote:I'd probably give a narrow advantage to whoever bats first in India/England, but no more than that. It's being played at Adelaide which has smaller boundaries, so I think that may just be more to England's liking as they have more consistent six-hitters in their line-up. Key is for both teams to get the line-up right - India need to pick Pant, not Karthik; if Malan is out, England need to pick Salt and not change the balance by going for Willey/Jordan.

NZ/Pakistan - no real idea. Probably give the edge to NZ.

India have hit 27 sixes to England's 6 though. Most of them on the bigger grounds too. Some pretty clean big hitting there!
No doubt Hales, Buttler and co. can cash in Thursday at AO. Long straight boundaries and much shorter square.
However in this tournament so far, India have been hitting sixes more consistently.

Yes, the Indians are definitely in better form, but I think the English have a higher ceiling of potential in that regard and they may enjoy playing at Adelaide that little bit more.

This is an interesting point. Adelaide is certainly a ground where hitting square can be rewarding - and I think it is fair to say England's bowlers have profited in this WC from having short deliveries caught in the mid wicket and square leg area. So their faster bowlers may need to amend their tactics to avoid seeing similar shots going over the fence...
On the flip side , the longer straight areas might favour good running between wickets...and I fancy this might be something England do a little better.
To be honest I am not sure there is a huge advantage either way : both these teams have a number of experienced and able players who are well capable of adjusting their games to ground conditions and the tactics of their opponents. This format is even more unpredictable than the longer ones so anything can happen on a day ; and I suspect the result here will come down to a few key moments : which key batsman , striking well , falls to a great catch ; which bowler has an over where he just loses his control for a few balls ... or just the luck of a couple of mishits finding the boundary instead of a fielder's hands at a crucial time. I think it probably be close. Batting first will , one would think , be an advantage - but maybe not a big one as the pitch will presumably be a new one.

I do agree India should pick Pant (though not sure they will) ; but am less sure about the wisdom of England bringing in Salt for Malan. If he isn't going to open , is there really a "good" spot for Salt in the top seven ? I like Stokes better at three ; and not keen to see Moeen and Livingstone too late to the party... Think there is at least a case to be made for Willey (who can play a useful hitting role late in the order ) with a view to having him bowl two overs in the opening six , and probably not needing to bowl later. Would a 7-8-9 of Curran-Willey-Woakes be such a terrible alternative to having say , Salt or Brook , held back to number seven ?

The other big question for India is around their spin options. Do they want two of them ? Do they think Axar is a serious batting option ? KP_fan will know better than I...

Glad to see the weather report looks good thumbsup

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Post by eirebilly_01 Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 6:27

How do ye all see the NZ - Pakistan game going? I had Pakistan as my favourites prior to the tournament but they have not really fired. NZ had one very good game and have been stable the rest.

If Babar and Rizwan fire then it could be a very difficult for NZ but same goes for NZ with Allen and Conway.

I would say though, on recent form, NZ will be favourites to win.

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 8:31

Are both these semi finals going to be played on used pitches?? I see the Eng/India game definitely is in Adelaide.

Bit of a shambles that - can't even get new pitches for semi finals/finals of a world cup? Not been a banner tournament for Australia as hosts, alongside the pretty awful attendances
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Post by KP_fan Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 8:59

eirebilly_01 wrote:How do ye all see the NZ - Pakistan game going? I had Pakistan as my favourites prior to the tournament but they have not really fired. NZ had one very good game and have been stable the rest.

If Babar and Rizwan fire then it could be a very difficult for NZ but same goes for NZ with Allen and Conway.

I would say though, on recent form, NZ will be favourites to win.

Pak ate favourites in my books
They are a team that ride on momentum and passion and rhythm and quite dangerous when they hit such a rythimc wave.....as they have now
Babar not in form but they have another 7 guys who are getting runs
And their pacers are in good rhythm....and they have wicket taking spinners
They might scramble/scrap a bit with the bat but will.blow away , NZ with the ball
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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 10:11

https://www.thecricketer.com/Topics/mens-t20-world-cup-2022/mark_wood_fitness_concern_england_extra_headache.html

Don't like reading Wood pulling up with stiffness - however precautionary it might be. Sounds like Salt for Malan is almost nailed on, barring Malan making a miracle recovery
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Post by Pal Joey Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 10:21

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Are both these semi finals going to be played on used pitches?? I see the Eng/India game definitely is in Adelaide.

Bit of a shambles that - can't even get new pitches for semi finals/finals of a world cup? Not been a banner tournament for Australia as hosts, alongside the pretty awful attendances

Pretty sure they use new pitches for each match unless there is a double header on the same day. Hence all the talk about shorter boundaries for the earlier pitches off the centre of the block.

As for attendances, I wouldn't call the 90,000 and 82,000 crowds poor for the Indian matches. There was a decent crowd at the India-SA match in Perth too. I agree some of the other games weren't well attended. Only 24,000 at the SA-Pak match and maybe something similar for the Eng-NZ match at the Gabba.

I was going to post up a long rant about the decline in attendances at cricket matches in Australia the other day. Only the Ashes and more lately the India tour seem to draw the fans. There are reasons why this is the case (which I won't go into a full detail now) but basically I see we have transitioned from the heydays of the 80s, 90s and early 2000s to a different cricketing mindset in these times. For instance, you wouldn't see me dressed up in a 'mounties' outfit with my name on the back of the shirt like all those people we saw at a recent match. That's just not my way of watching cricket matches.

Far more cricket action is on TV nowadays and some fans probably feel too saturated by it all, crowd regulations have tightened up making it more of a chore to attend for formerly rowdier local fans (unless you are a newly arrived fan from the sub-continent... in which case a bit of slack is cut), relentless dumbed-down crass marketing and there is even a sense of the more glorious eras coming to an end (with the recent loss of some of our legends) which probably affects the attendance figures too.

I know a lot of my old friends simply can't be bothered turning up any more (after turning up for decades) and are simply fed up with a) the way the game is branded these days, b) some of the over-publicised antics of some of the current players and c) they are busy with other more important things in their lives... but still keep an eye on proceedings from a distance.

I'm probably a bit like that. I was going to book tickets for a couple of matches here but the site said "sold out" and "world cup games not included in SCG Membership"... which put me off. Then I sit down to watch the games and see all those empty seats! So something is very wrong with the way the game is being presented and marketed here.

Think I'll get in early, though, for a day at a test match or ODI in the coming weeks/months once all the brouhaha of this event is over. Smile

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Post by Good Golly I'm Olly Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 10:58

Pal Joey wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Are both these semi finals going to be played on used pitches?? I see the Eng/India game definitely is in Adelaide.

Bit of a shambles that - can't even get new pitches for semi finals/finals of a world cup? Not been a banner tournament for Australia as hosts, alongside the pretty awful attendances

Pretty sure they use new pitches for each match unless there is a double header on the same day. Hence all the talk about shorter boundaries for the earlier pitches off the centre of the block.

As for attendances, I wouldn't call the 90,000 and 82,000 crowds poor for the Indian matches. There was a decent crowd at the India-SA match in Perth too. I agree some of the other games weren't well attended. Only 24,000 at the SA-Pak match and maybe something similar for the Eng-NZ match at the Gabba.

I was going to post up a long rant about the decline in attendances at cricket matches in Australia the other day. Only the Ashes and more lately the India tour seem to draw the fans. There are reasons why this is the case (which I won't go into a full detail now) but basically I see we have transitioned from the heydays of the 80s, 90s and early 2000s to a different cricketing mindset in these times. For instance, you wouldn't see me dressed up in a 'mounties' outfit with my name on the back of the shirt like all those people we saw at a recent match. That's just not my way of watching cricket matches.

Far more cricket action is on TV nowadays and some fans probably feel too saturated by it all, crowd regulations have tightened up making it more of a chore to attend for formerly rowdier local fans (unless you are a newly arrived fan from the sub-continent... in which case a bit of slack is cut), relentless dumbed-down crass marketing and there is even a sense of the more glorious eras coming to an end (with the recent loss of some of our legends) which probably affects the attendance figures too.

I know a lot of my old friends simply can't be bothered turning up any more (after turning up for decades) and are simply fed up with a) the way the game is branded these days, b) some of the over-publicised antics of some of the current players and c) they are busy with other more important things in their lives... but still keep an eye on proceedings from a distance.

I'm probably a bit like that. I was going to book tickets for a couple of matches here but the site said "sold out" and "world cup games not included in SCG Membership"... which put me off. Then I sit down to watch the games and see all those empty seats! So something is very wrong with the way the game is being presented and marketed here.

Think I'll get in early, though, for a day at a test match or ODI in the coming weeks/months once all the brouhaha of this event is over. Smile

I was going to ask you and Alfie post tournament about general cricketing mood in Aus, and engagement of the public - it does seem outside of the big games (Eng/Ind basically) whenever I see an Aus series on TV, they are sparsely populated. Probably a combination of things I guess - but understand all the points you make PJ. Something Cricket Australia needs to get a hold of going forward...? It's not too dissimilar over here in fairness, albeit I do think the ECB does a decent job of taking these "lesser" ODIs/T20s to venues where you don't get much international cricket (Bristol, Wales, Durham) but even this past summer we had some very lightly attended games there too.
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Post by KP_fan Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 10:58

Alfie wrote:The other big question for India is around their spin options. Do they want two of them ? Do they think Axar is a serious batting option ? KP_fan will know better than
I...
India has 2 variable
Pant vs DK....and indications are that they might have zeroed in on Pant.

Axar is the problem as he is slated to bat at no.7, because he has reasonable batting skills, but is bowling horribly right now.
So what are rhr alternatives
1. Play Chahl but that means Ashwin batting at 7?
And we lose the 10 to 15 runs that axar promises with bat
2. Hooda is deemed a part time.spinner but proper batsman
3. Harshal..seamer who can bowl a lot of variations of slow cutters and is not a muck like Chahl with the bat.
I would go with Option 2 I.e Hooda...can't bowl worse than. AXAR.
And is a proper batsman

Pitch is a used one and will spin do Ind would like to keep 2 spinners hence Option. 3 is less likely
Rohit had a injury scare but seems OK now
Won't be a bad idea to let Pant open and Rohit go down to 5 given his form
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Post by eirebilly_01 Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 11:21

Well written PJ but I actually think the issue goes deeper than cricket in Australia.

Australians, as I remember when I was there, are incredibly mad sports fans and would go in the droves to watch any sport.

It just seems to me that the Aussies may just be falling out of love with sport in general. Would that be a fair statement?

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Post by Duty281 Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 11:31

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Are both these semi finals going to be played on used pitches?? I see the Eng/India game definitely is in Adelaide.

Bit of a shambles that - can't even get new pitches for semi finals/finals of a world cup? Not been a banner tournament for Australia as hosts, alongside the pretty awful attendances

According to the Telegraph, England/India will definitely be on a used pitch:

"England’s semi-final against India will be played on a wicket which has been used twice in this tournament, for last Friday’s double-header between New Zealand and Ireland and Australia’s clash with Afghanistan. A used wicket is likely to mean that the side who wins the toss chooses to bat first."

Fingers crossed for Mark Wood, he is close to irreplaceable in terms of ability.

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Post by Pal Joey Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 11:41

eirebilly_01 wrote:Well written PJ but I actually think the issue goes deeper than cricket in Australia.

Australians, as I remember when I was there, are incredibly mad sports fans and would go in the droves to watch any sport.

It just seems to me that the Aussies may just be falling out of love with sport in general. Would that be a fair statement?

I can't talk for everyone, Billy but it's as though some codes are doing their best to alienate many sports fans. For instance, we've always had free to air cricket and rugby matches but it was nigh impossible to watch the Scotland or France rugby matches unless you have Stan. Even the 'live match centre' thing was poorly run in the SMH.... it was way behind the actual play and very slow to update the score. Some proper idiots are running that show!

Alfie will probably note that sport (AFL) is as healthy as ever in Victoria and also in WA and SA. Not sure about the state leagues and lesser comps but there is probably good participation. In NSW and Qld, NRL crowds are weak unless it's a big game such as Panthers v Broncos or Qld Derby with NQL Cowboys. Only Parramatta Eels with their new stadium seem to draw decent crowds but if their form drops off... so will the fans.

Football is a bit of a non-event here although there are large groups of men and women participating in the sport but I just don't follow the A-League. Half the time you wouldn't even know if a match was on and it's poorly publicised. It's as if they don't want people to even know if a game is on.

As for Sheffield Shield cricket - that gets very poor exposure although some games are televised. I've seen a few Marsh Cup matches on TV too. Nobody there, which is a pity and some of the matches aren't too bad. I feel sorry for the players actually... toiling away all day with hardly anyone watching. Women's BBL gets more coverage and bigger crowds. Same with AFL Women and NRL Women as curtain-raisers for the blokes. It's all arse up really.




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Post by Pal Joey Tue 8 Nov 2022 - 12:01

Duty281 wrote:
Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:Are both these semi finals going to be played on used pitches?? I see the Eng/India game definitely is in Adelaide.

Bit of a shambles that - can't even get new pitches for semi finals/finals of a world cup? Not been a banner tournament for Australia as hosts, alongside the pretty awful attendances

According to the Telegraph, England/India will definitely be on a used pitch:

"England’s semi-final against India will be played on a wicket which has been used twice in this tournament, for last Friday’s double-header between New Zealand and Ireland and Australia’s clash with Afghanistan. A used wicket is likely to mean that the side who wins the toss chooses to bat first."

Fingers crossed for Mark Wood, he is close to irreplaceable in terms of ability.

Oh OK. The ICC probably made a consensus decision.

They obviously know what they're doing with the best cricket pitch in the world. Only 2 matches (so about 6 hours... like one day of a test match) played on it and then a 5 day break for the semi. Just like airing a red wine after opening the bottle it will no doubt be in top nick for the match on Wednesday.

Sydney should be a splendid wicket as well. We've had a good deal of sun, early to mid 20s temperatures the last few days, a sprinkle of rain today but perfect sunny conditions forecast for tomorrow. So there's nothing to worry about any of these pitches. They've been superb across all venues.

Fingers crossed for Melbourne but that pitch will play well too when the time arrives. I love that lush outfield there... there's good value for shots.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Wed 9 Nov 2022 - 6:36

Ah here now PJ, i remember when i was in Australia, the Sheffield Shield was very popular. Even went to watch it myself a few times. Good standard in fairness.
Its a shame that it is all going down hill there.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Wed 9 Nov 2022 - 6:37

So just over an hour to go before the first semi final. I am starting to lean towards Pakistan winning this.

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Post by alfie Wed 9 Nov 2022 - 7:12

Looking forward to this one. I fancy NZ but wouldn't be surprised if Pakistan upset them. Afridi getting back fully into form has been a big plus for them - their bowling looks pretty good . Perhaps less likely to falter than the batting ?

Just feel NZ don't rely as much on a few key players - and their fielding is vastly better. But it is t20 and anything can happen...

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Post by alfie Wed 9 Nov 2022 - 7:28

Meanwhile not liking what I have been reading re Mark Wood : England would find him virtually impossible to replace if he doesn't come up by tomorrow so hope concerns are a little exaggerated. But that is for later.

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Post by eirebilly_01 Wed 9 Nov 2022 - 7:40

So New Zealand to bat first. A good toss to win that one.

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