Ireland v England 18&19 March - Grand Slam opportunities

First topic message reminder :

Ireland are going for Grand Slam wins on Saturday and Sunday this weekend with the seniors and U20s lining out in Dublin and Cork to face England.

After the slew of injuries in the Scotland, Ireland were looking at being down a good few players for their final match.

Bealham, Beirne, Henderson, McCarthy and Ringrose are all definitely out of the reckoning.  Rónan Kelleher may join them.   Sheehan and Doris might recover sufficiently from their knocks to be named in the squad.

Team named at 3.30pm Irish time.  

Porter, Sheehan, Furlong, Ryan, Baird, O'Mahony, Van der Flier, Doris
Gibson-Park, Sexton, Lowe, Aki, Henshaw, Hansen, Keenan
R: Herring, Healy, O'Toole, Treadwell, Conan, Murray, Byrne, O'Brien

England looking to change up things from their 23 last Saturday with Owen Farrell starting at 10, alongside Manu Tuilagi in midfield.  

Genge, George, Kyle Sinckler, Itoje, Ribbans, Ludlam, Willis, Dombrandt
Steward, Watson, Slade, Tuilagi. Arundell, Farrell, van Poortvliet
R: Walker, Vunipola, Cole, Isiekwe, Curry, Mitchell, Smith, Marchant.

I wil agree that shouldn't have been a yellow

carpet baboon wrote:Silly from Willis but nothing but a penalty

More of a red than the red.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Geordie wrote:Sgt...thoughts on Willis today? Surely you can see what he can bring to a team...

Ok, nothing more. I think the whole backrow has been better tbh. I think Ribbans has brought more balance to the pack, Chessum and Itoje are too underpowered.

OK?

Well we'll agree to disagree

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Geordie wrote:Sgt...thoughts on Willis today? Surely you can see what he can bring to a team...

Ok, nothing more. I think the whole backrow has been better tbh. I think Ribbans has brought more balance to the pack, Chessum and Itoje are too underpowered.

Ribbans playing well. Makes one think about all other bad selection decisions/omissions.

Been on the edge of this a few times Willis, poor technique

Unbelievable, yellow card for that?!

Cumbrian wrote:Unbelievable, yellow card for that?!

He’s tipped him over the horizontal, not brought him down well and impact on his head. Definitely at least a yellow.

That was never a yellow either - I repeat where was Jonker when the blatant high tackle on Watson happened

carpet baboon wrote:And I thought it was only the Welsh who thought all the refs had been paid off

Not what we said, but I defy you to find an example where Marius Jonker has intervened to alert the ref to an infringement by one of England’s opponents.

Willis, though, is lucky that another player was involved because without that, that tip is a clear red these days.

At worst, he landed on his shoulder. Watched something earlier in the day, it was penalty only.

Heaf wrote:That was never a yellow either - I repeat where was Jonker when the blatant high tackle on Watson happened

It was silly from Willis and Englands discipline has been poor today from start to finish.

It's been a much better performance today. On another one with this we could well have won.

Cumbrian wrote:At worst, he landed on his shoulder.  Watched something earlier in the day, it was penalty only.

He put an arm out which saved Willis but not a doubt that he has a responsibility to bring him to ground safely and he ended up over the horizontal and impacting his head.

Possibly Ireland's worst performance this six nations.
England's best???

Ireland have made some suspect tackles too though - just not been pinged for some reason ...

Can't help but feel with the look of the first half Farrell and setup of midfield didn't take advantage when we should to mitigate the mistake of the red card. If Smith really isn't favoured by Borthwock he needs to pick Ford at 10.

carpet baboon wrote:Possibly Ireland's worst performance this six nations.
England's best???

Or did England nit let Ureland play?

England were better that they've previously been, but what does it tell us? We can play when nobody expects anything? But sh1t the bed when we have a sniff?

Well England really are a second rate team.

Congratulations Ireland!

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's been a much better performance today. On another one with this we could well have won.

Wish Nige was still reffing ....

Well done Ireland....the Irish Antipodeans...

England can now rebuild....free shot at the world Cup in September and go for next years 6n.

Congratulations by the way Ireland, Grand Slam aren't easily won. Currently the best team up north. Enjoy it.

Congratulations Ireland on the win and a deserved GS

Poor from Ireland, almost feels wrong to celebrate that

Spirited effort from England against a well-below-their-best Ireland. Recovered some pride from last week, but a hell of a lot of work to do from here.

Collapse2005 wrote:Poor from Ireland, almost feels wrong to celebrate that

Not poor...England got at them. Ireland aren't as good as everyone thinks.

Cumbrian wrote:England were better that they've previously been, but what does it tell us?  We can play when nobody expects anything?   But sh1t the bed when we have a sniff?

It says the pack can live with the best but we were caught out by tactics last week. I also think it shows when they do show up Farrell/setup of midfield is not the one to create. If only they'd kept faith with Smith then we may have had something to sit back on after the incorrect red. Slade really doesn't add anything at present.

Congrats Ireland - you should still celebrate it - shame we were denied something that could have been even more exciting ...

Collapse2005 wrote:Poor from Ireland, almost feels wrong to celebrate that

Best team in the world and a 6N Grand Slam, I’d be sinking a Guinness or two.

Englands back row much better today and made it a contest.

England fought hard and tackled well - they frustrated Ireland and stopped them playing. Not poor from Ireland, decent from England

Congrats to Ireland. Probably their worst showing of the tournament and still more than enough. Deserved Grand Slam champions and a very impressive team.

TJ wrote:England fought hard and tackled well - they frustrated Ireland and stopped them playing.  Not poor from Ireland, decent from England

I agree, though it was a bit of a Hobson's choice. Play tough defense and hope for a few attacking breaks. Or try and attack and we know what happens to the defense. In te end another significant loss with the attendant questions which go along with it.

Bit harsh Doc - away to Ireland and playing half the match a man down and having to contend with some other odd calls from the officials and were in it til the end ... big improvement over what most of us probably expected

Red card was a bit unfortunate but worth saying Keenan has arguably been player of the tournament and was missed in the second half imo

I agree, England certainly stopped us playing our game.

Geordie wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:Poor from Ireland, almost feels wrong to celebrate that

Not poor...England got at them. Ireland aren't as good as everyone thinks.

Its not a bad England team, they will improve a lot so I never thought it would be easy. Ireland made a lot of uncharacteristic errors. Didnt deal with nerves and pressure well. England will be disapointed with their dicipline.

England showed they can play. Willis had a very good game as did Dombrandt and both have been widely criticized and correctly although too harshly at times by some.
Arundell unfortunately wasn't our saviour although bit much to expect it although he hardly had a chance
All forwards in fairness redeemed themselves from last week
Farcical red aside Ireland probably would have still won but who knows.
Shame Ribbans is off, he was good

At least there's light at end of long dark tunnel.

Heaf wrote:Bit harsh Doc - away to Ireland and playing half the match a man down and having to contend with some other odd calls from the officials and were in it til the end ... big improvement over what most of us probably expected

Agree although the word odd could be substituted for a few stronger more factual words. At least we fired some shots this week.

I'll take the win and the GS, but it shows there is still a lot of work for Ireland to do before the World Cup. I felt the kicking from hand was poor, and the scrum needs some work. I also thought the pressure did get to Ireland and given what has turned out as a very asymmetric draw could well mean the usual quarter final exit. Still lets live in the moment and celebrate the GS.

Despite the result i t=thought England played really well fpr the first time this tournamentm

I just do not uderstand why Borthwicj does not use the bench better..

Well played Ireland deserved Grand Slam winnersm

Scottrf wrote:

Cumbrian wrote:Unbelievable, yellow card for that?!

He’s tipped him over the horizontal, not brought him down well and impact on his head. Definitely at least a yellow.

I would have said marginal pen only / yellow

Heaf wrote:Bit harsh Doc - away to Ireland and playing half the match a man down and having to contend with some other odd calls from the officials and were in it til the end ... big improvement over what most of us probably expected

I get that, and whilst I agree this was an improvement (huge, to be fair), but still so many of the same issues whether at 15, 14, or 13 men. Just line a player up and take him to ground. And pick the right player, to boot.

The last time England were down to 14 men against Ireland, they put up an terrific fight, though lost in the end. That fight showed a steel generally missing in this England team for quite a while. And allowed everyone to deceive themselves that England were actually better, perhaps, much better, than they actually were. We won't be fooled again (which reminds me of a song).

Congratulations to the Irish squad. They played the best consistent rugby of the tournament and a good send off for Sexton who has been a hard working servant for Irish rugby, so I don't begrudge that.

I did think they rode their luck against a tired looking French side in terms of their tries but that happens at home. Come the RWC I think SA, NZ and France will work out tactics  to off put their dummy runners, who are basically obstructing the rush defence. It's clearly unfortunate that Ireland are in such a tough side of the RWC draw.

For England, the worst result last week at Twickenham in over a hundred years was a freak result and they were never as bad as the scoreline suggested. I think I will ignore that result but might enter mastermind with my topic being SH refs 'against' England away from home but clearly I will be called a bad loser..... It is not always about the decisions a ref makes but also the ones he doesn't.

I thought the red card was technically correct but still a complete nonsense. Thought Wilkinson got it spot on when he said the fullback was looking to kick the ball  and Steward flinched and the ball bounced up and he caught it and ran into Steward rather than the other way round. By the same token the Aus wingers hit round Watson's neck should have also been a red. I also thought Aki hit Ludlum round the head with a tackle around a ruck but again no decision.

Understand why an Irishman got man of the match but the best player on the pitch was Willis.

Fair play, I thought England did well there. Fronted up as underdogs, even when down to 14 men. Many predicted a pasting but that was closer than predicted.

Congrats Ireland. Worthy grands slam winners

Recwatcher16 wrote:Congratulations to the Irish squad. They played the best consistent rugby of the tournament and a good send off for Sexton who has been a hard working servant for Irish rugby, so I don't begrudge that.

I did think they rode their luck against a tired looking French side in terms of their tries but that happens at home. Come the RWC I think SA, NZ and France will work out tactics  to off put their dummy runners, who are basically obstructing the rush defence. It's clearly unfortunate that Ireland are in such a tough side of the RWC draw.

For England, the worst result last week at Twickenham in over a hundred years was a freak result and they were never as bad as the scoreline suggested. I think I will ignore that result but might enter mastermind with my topic being SH refs 'against' England away from home but clearly I will be called a bad loser..... It is not always about the decisions a ref makes but also the ones he doesn't.

I thought the red card was technically correct but still a complete nonsense. Thought Wilkinson got it spot on when he said the fullback was looking to kick the ball  and Steward flinched and the ball bounced up and he caught it and ran into Steward rather than the other way round. By the same token the Aus wingers hit round Watson's neck should have also been a red. I also thought Aki hit Ludlum round the head with a tackle around a ruck but again no decision.

Understand why an Irishman got man of the match but the best player on the pitch was Willis.

But confused as there wasn't an Australian on the pitch

Recwatcher16 wrote:Congratulations to the Irish squad. They played the best consistent rugby of the tournament and a good send off for Sexton who has been a hard working servant for Irish rugby, so I don't begrudge that.

I did think they rode their luck against a tired looking French side in terms of their tries but that happens at home. Come the RWC I think SA, NZ and France will work out tactics  to off put their dummy runners, who are basically obstructing the rush defence. It's clearly unfortunate that Ireland are in such a tough side of the RWC draw.

For England, the worst result last week at Twickenham in over a hundred years was a freak result and they were never as bad as the scoreline suggested. I think I will ignore that result but might enter mastermind with my topic being SH refs 'against' England away from home but clearly I will be called a bad loser..... It is not always about the decisions a ref makes but also the ones he doesn't.

I thought the red card was technically correct but still a complete nonsense. Thought Wilkinson got it spot on when he said the fullback was looking to kick the ball  and Steward flinched and the ball bounced up and he caught it and ran into Steward rather than the other way round. By the same token the Aus wingers hit round Watson's neck should have also been a red. I also thought Aki hit Ludlum round the head with a tackle around a ruck but again no decision.

Understand why an Irishman got man of the match but the best player on the pitch was Willis.

Ireland once again played that pragmatic, intelligent style waiting for a break or defensive mistake to take advantage of.  Everyone knows what they are going to do, it's just that no one can stop it at the moment.  When you are good, you are good.

I think that loss to France was years in the making and the culmination of a lot of mistakes, errors in game planning, poor selection, and shoddy management.  And maybe England were not THAT bad on the day, but it does take a special talent to lose like that.  Maybe the players are just not that good any more?  

New coaching teams come and go all the time in pro sport.  But they almost never crater to a record all-time 100 year loss.

Looking forward to the netflix documentary.

carpet baboon wrote:

Recwatcher16 wrote:Congratulations to the Irish squad. They played the best consistent rugby of the tournament and a good send off for Sexton who has been a hard working servant for Irish rugby, so I don't begrudge that.

I did think they rode their luck against a tired looking French side in terms of their tries but that happens at home. Come the RWC I think SA, NZ and France will work out tactics  to off put their dummy runners, who are basically obstructing the rush defence. It's clearly unfortunate that Ireland are in such a tough side of the RWC draw.

For England, the worst result last week at Twickenham in over a hundred years was a freak result and they were never as bad as the scoreline suggested. I think I will ignore that result but might enter mastermind with my topic being SH refs 'against' England away from home but clearly I will be called a bad loser..... It is not always about the decisions a ref makes but also the ones he doesn't.

I thought the red card was technically correct but still a complete nonsense. Thought Wilkinson got it spot on when he said the fullback was looking to kick the ball  and Steward flinched and the ball bounced up and he caught it and ran into Steward rather than the other way round. By the same token the Aus wingers hit round Watson's neck should have also been a red. I also thought Aki hit Ludlum round the head with a tackle around a ruck but again no decision.

Understand why an Irishman got man of the match but the best player on the pitch was Willis.

But confused as there wasn't an Australian on the pitch

Yes, the one on the right wing amongst the kiwis and Samoans

Geordie wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

Recwatcher16 wrote:Congratulations to the Irish squad. They played the best consistent rugby of the tournament and a good send off for Sexton who has been a hard working servant for Irish rugby, so I don't begrudge that.

I did think they rode their luck against a tired looking French side in terms of their tries but that happens at home. Come the RWC I think SA, NZ and France will work out tactics  to off put their dummy runners, who are basically obstructing the rush defence. It's clearly unfortunate that Ireland are in such a tough side of the RWC draw.

For England, the worst result last week at Twickenham in over a hundred years was a freak result and they were never as bad as the scoreline suggested. I think I will ignore that result but might enter mastermind with my topic being SH refs 'against' England away from home but clearly I will be called a bad loser..... It is not always about the decisions a ref makes but also the ones he doesn't.

I thought the red card was technically correct but still a complete nonsense. Thought Wilkinson got it spot on when he said the fullback was looking to kick the ball  and Steward flinched and the ball bounced up and he caught it and ran into Steward rather than the other way round. By the same token the Aus wingers hit round Watson's neck should have also been a red. I also thought Aki hit Ludlum round the head with a tackle around a ruck but again no decision.

Understand why an Irishman got man of the match but the best player on the pitch was Willis.

But confused as there wasn't an Australian on the pitch

Yes, the one on the right wing amongst the kiwis and Samoans

Like the South African who was one of your best players