Scotland World Cup buildup

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Scotland v Italy
Saturday 29 July

Scotland v France
Saturday 5 August

France v Scotland
Saturday 12 August

Scotland v Georgia
Saturday 26 August

I think it's only fair to start another thread for this topic because I can see it being a popular topic in terms of discussion .

First things first is that 3 wins from 5 and a 3rd place finish probably exceeded expectations because most would have said 2 wins and the 4th place win, the one that most would have called was England to beat us as they were at home so imho we certainly deserve enormous credit for that one because we played very well against an England team that also had their moments, in fact I could already see improvements from the Eddie Jones era during that game and until DVDM clinched it at the death, I was still pretty worried we wouldn't win so was understandably over the moon that we did win.

The Wales and Italy matches were mixed bags tbh but we did get 5pts from both which was crucial, the Welsh game we didn't really perform first half and were in fact fortunate to go in at half time ahead but second half we were excellent and deserved the bonus point win.  The Italy game was a mixed bag in terms of; we had patches where we did well and others where we were hanging on, such as the last 2mins, I also felt that in that game our top centre pairing of Huwipulotu were quiet in attack though DVDM was a bit more involved that he had been in the previous few weeks before.

The France game was bloody frustrating because we showed glimpses of how well we can play especially in the second half for large parts but we were guilty of missing key opportunities and indiscipline from the captain of all people was our undoing which is where the frustration comes because as fans, we expect our captain to know what the ref will tolerate in terms of backchat!

The Ireland game was a game of 2 halfs, in the first half we were going toe to toe with them, it was probably the best we've played against them in a very long time; second half was a completely different story, we basically just capitalutated and handed the game to them with basic errors and more stupid indiscipline.

In terms of the coach, I have made my feelings known and really hope that the situation is resolved by at least mid to late April as we really need clarity on the situation!

Finally, for the summer warm up matches I'd like to see fringe players like Cameron Henderson, Ben Healy, Stafford McDowall, Kyle Rowe and Ollie Smith get some game time to see what they can offer either at the world cup (unlikely) or next 6N in 2024 .

The42 says no citing for Kriel

https://www.the42.ie/jesse-kriel-citing-6165928-Sep2023/

Rugby Fan wrote:The42 says no citing for Kriel

https://www.the42.ie/jesse-kriel-citing-6165928-Sep2023/

Nothing against Kriel, he doesnt seem like a dirty player and i think he gets a lot of flak for not being lukhanyo am - BUT thats farcial. if WR want to at least be seen to be careful about head knocks they need to show theres consequence for playing high risk

Brendan Nel shows a reverse view at the 4:15 mark in his video, which he believes is why the TMO decided against a sanction.

From what I have seen there are apparently two sides to the story. If you look at the video footage from the opposite angle the tackle was made on the ball and then he moved up.

That might explain why there was mitigation down from red, but certainly doesn’t explain the lack of any sanction at all when there was clearly head contact

Crazy how they allow the people appointed to do the TMO job to have a say in it when he's clearly been found guilty by the opposition, retired players and social media.

I was under the impression that Rambo flew out in case Ashman failed his concussion protocol. Both hookers had a very tough day at the office yesterday. Rambo might just find himself playing yet.

Galted wrote:Crazy how they allow the people appointed to do the TMO job to have a say in it when he's clearly been found guilty by the opposition, retired players and social media.

Na you’re right, the officiating in the tournament has been perfect, there are no issues with consistency and no case to answer. Fans should just pipe down and understand that their confusion is simply down to not being smart enough to understand the decisions that are being taken but not explained.

Tramptastic wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:The42 says no citing for Kriel

https://www.the42.ie/jesse-kriel-citing-6165928-Sep2023/

Nothing against Kriel, he doesnt seem like a dirty player and i think he gets a lot of flak for not being lukhanyo am - BUT thats farcial. if WR want to at least be seen to be careful about head knocks they need to show theres consequence for playing high risk

Yeah its a joke, they choose an angle where you cant see the head clash to justify their decision. What nonsense!! At the very best the contact was to the ball and head at the same time.

Its baffling how they can come to such a stupid conclusion, the TMO didnt even think it was a penalty, madness.

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:

Galted wrote:Crazy how they allow the people appointed to do the TMO job to have a say in it when he's clearly been found guilty by the opposition, retired players and social media.

Na you’re right, the officiating in the tournament has been perfect, there are no issues with consistency and no case to answer. Fans should just pipe down and understand that their confusion is simply down to not being smart enough to understand the decisions that are being taken but not explained.

So following your logic every decision someone on 606v2 has whined about must be a mistake by the ref or TMO?

No, I’m clearly being facetious. But the fact remains that for at least the last World Cup cycle now rugby has been dominated by complaints about the consistency and quality of refereeing and the disciplinary process. You might not like that, but almost every match thread on here or anywhere online will be dominated by criticism of refereeing decisions and a perceived (at best) lack of consistency between different refs and the decisions being applied to similar situations.

Over the last 2 days there have been multiple such examples, with a lot of new viewers eyes on these games and no attempt by World Rugby to explain why such seemingly similar situations are seeing such wildly different law interpretations. If you feel it’s unreasonable for there to be widespread dissatisfaction about that situation the. Fair enough, but it’s not a new phenomenon nor is it outside of World Rugby’s control to start to address the situation.

TheMildlyFranticLlama wrote:No, I’m clearly being facetious. But the fact remains that for at least the last World Cup cycle now rugby has been dominated by complaints about the consistency and quality of refereeing and the disciplinary process. You might not like that, but almost every match thread on here or anywhere online will be dominated by criticism of refereeing decisions and a perceived (at best) lack of consistency between different refs and the decisions being applied to similar situations.

Over the last 2 days there have been multiple such examples, with a lot of new viewers eyes on these games and no attempt by World Rugby to explain why such seemingly similar situations are seeing such wildly different law interpretations. If you feel it’s unreasonable for there to be widespread dissatisfaction about that situation the. Fair enough, but it’s not a new phenomenon nor is it outside of World Rugby’s control to start to address the situation.

Fair enough, but I was referring to the Kriel incident (and what also doesn't help to gain favour with new viewers is studio 'pundits' complaining about officiating errors when the officials have managed to get it right).  As unlucky as Curry was the red was the correct decision.  As regards Kriel, I thought it would be an inevitable red when watching the live broadcast but, having seen the replay from the opposite angle, I don't see any  dangerous play - if there was he'd've been carded at the time or cited later.

I think reports so far are just Erasmus claiming there won't be a citing as, "there was no direct head contact", which is Rassie's usual mix of bewildering and amusing schtick he's taken on since the Lions tour in SA. I don't believe a decision on it has actually been announced yet.

Either Kriel and Sigren's will need upgrading to red, hence a ban, or Curry's red will need rescinding. I think even rugby's diabolical governance will be able to see that anything else is asking for trouble.

The reason given for Kriel getting off is about as nonsensical as the reasoning given for Farrells card originally being overturned. Id actually nearly say its worse.

Has it been confirmed by WR that Kriel has escaped citing yet? To my knowledge it's just Rassie running his mouth thus far.

Apparently they've only got until 07:00 BST tomorrow before the citing window closes, and it's unlikely that they'll announce a citing in the small hours of the morning, so it appears he won't be cited.

https://twitter.com/nicksjj/status/1701266609464041487?t=g5hNuacNQ4tSYws3PhmLOA&s=19

So, if he doesn't get cited, does that mean:

1) Curry won't be banned for further games?
2) Curry was wrongly sent off?

Whatever happens with the various citings this weekend, you'd like to think World Rugby would release a statement clarifying what the correct interpretation is. Whichever way it goes, there will be very apparent inconsistencies whether from the on field decision, the TMO or the citing process.

What changes if any should Scotland make for Tonga in just under two weeks time?

I’d like to see Cummings given a start over Gray with skinner on the bench and Healy over Smith. Giving Watson or Crosbie some minutes could be a good idea but perhaps Romania is a better match for that given a full bill of fitness (which is remarkable by the way).

Schoeman, Turner, Fagerson
Cummings, Gilchrist
Ritchie, Darge
Dempsey
White, Russell
Tuipulotu, Jones
VDM, Graham
Kinghorn

Cherry, Sutherland, Nel, skinner, Crosbie, Horne, Healy, Redpath

It's a funny one - given the schedule this time is very reasonable we could actually play our strongest team every week.

But it would be strange having such a big squad with 10 of them twiddling their thumbs for the whole tournament.

The obvious choice is full metal jacket against Tonga then mass rotation against Romania to save some players for Ireland, but we're also needing to put a cricket score on Romania to try and even up our points difference.

I'd go for first choice against Tonga (1 or 2 tweaks perhaps) then rotate 5-6 players against Romania and tell those players they are playing for an Ireland spot.

Full choice both weeks

Use the bench for those needing game time, guve tbem 30 minutes in both games

Back your starting team now so they are firing on all cylinders for Ireland

Got back from Marseilles late last night.

What a fabulous experience a WC is. I really enjoyed the last time I went, 8 years ago over here but this was even better, so many different nationalities mingling around this great old city, it is just different from the 6N. The sun shining so brightly of course only adds to that joy of being there.

The stadium was fantastic and from our perspective it was very well organised by the French, though I do gather that some people did have trouble getting into the ground on the saturday when England played.

We also watched other games in bars and restaurants around the place, the main one being the first night and France-NZ, which got the French all very excited. French TV is an absolute hoot, they are really not interested in any of the other teams. After the England-Argentina game, they basically cut off about 10 secs after the finish and went off for the latest update on how Les Blues were getting on.

I would be very happy to see France win it, but there will be a national disappointment on a monumental scale if they do not! Especially if they go out in the quarter final which is very possible.

As to our game, well I did not really see the Kriel tackle so can't comment, I have not watched the game on TV yet. To me though the main turning point was when Darcy butchered the pass to Duhan who would surely have walked in from there. It really did seem that we were right back in the game in those 10 mins prior to HT and we were all feeling quite optimistic.

As usual, it is the hope that kills you though. The pressure SA then put us under on both sides of the ball was incredible. They came out firing in the second half and the rest was history.

No complaints about the result from me, SA are a very good side and no shame in losing to them.

The lack of a BP will likely put us out even if we were to beat Ireland, but no point speculating about that now. lets just try and win our games, hopefully score a few points along the way and see where we are on that last group match.

What we have to hope for is that whatever the result in the ireland v south africa game, there are no bonus points by either team, we get bonus points against romania and tonga, we beat ireland with a bonus point

1 game in and we already have to do maths. Fantastic.

Everyone assuming that Tonga are just going to roll over as well.

That will be a full blown test match for all the teams in the group and could easily be a banana skin for any of them, especially if they don't give it their full attention

I get the reasoning behind going full noise against Tonga - I've got Fekitoa in my Fantasy team after all - but something tells me it will take a few bodies more than a week to recover from that going over.

Tramptastic wrote:What we have to hope for is that whatever the result in the ireland v south africa game, there are no bonus points by either team, we get bonus points against romania and tonga,  we beat ireland with a bonus point

1 game in and we already have to do maths. Fantastic.

Ive been doing the maths in my head for about a year now, still havent cracked it.

BigGee wrote:Everyone assuming that Tonga are just going to roll over as well.

That will be a full blown test match for all the teams in the group and could easily be a banana skin for any of them, especially if they don't give it their full attention

Yeah I think they have in previous world cups won v France and pushed SA close. They are traditionally the weakest of the three pacific island sides but do have some great players. They will give someone a fight but Id expect all the big sides to beat them.

Tramptastic wrote:What we have to hope for is that whatever the result in the ireland v south africa game, there are no bonus points by either team, we get bonus points against romania and tonga,  we beat ireland with a bonus point

1 game in and we already have to do maths. Fantastic.

As long as South Africa beat Ireland, Scotland should still be through if they win their final three games, with little mathematics required!

Let's say Ireland beat Tonga with a BP, lose to South Africa with a BP, and lose to Scotland with a BP. That'll leave Ireland with 12 points.

If Scotland then beat Tonga without a BP, beat Romania with a BP, and beat Ireland without a BP, that'll leave Scotland with 13 points. Even if Ireland got an extra BP by getting two tries in one of their losses, Scotland would still edge out Ireland in the H2H, which comes before points difference.

Let South Africa beat Ireland, then the winner of Scotland/Ireland should be a straight L16 match, all things being equal.

Scotland wouldnt even need to get a BP v Romania because in a tiebreaker scenario I believe its the head to head result that counts first. Then points difference, then tries scored - tries conceded, then most points scored, then most tries scored, then world ranking, then whoever can drink the most Irn Bru.

So in short.....we need to beat Ireland!

I'm feeling more positive after rewatching the match. Absolutely Scotland could have done better, but there is time to amend the mistakes.

The lineout is the biggest part of their game needing attention but the defence, attack and kicking game is all very good. Against SA the rush defence killed Scotland and they just didn't have another way to beat it other than trying to play to their strengths in attack. In the final ten minutes Scotland would have had a try if Price had managed to keep his grubber in play for Kinghorn, no one was back to defend it.

Secondly, the ref played a big part in the match. I found that the way he officiated the breakdown certainly suited SA. Other refs would have been more critical of the bodies flying into and over rucks but I found Gardner to be quite lenient of this throughout.

Most frustratingly though was the fact that SA (apart from individual brilliance) were not that amazing in attack. They butchered a lot of chances and that may be a weakness to their game against the more physical sides in the latter stages.

Overall, for Ireland I think Scotland will have more opportunities against the Irish defence as it is good but not as intense as the Boks. However the lineout will need to be much much better, Ritchie and Darge will need to win more turnovers and the backs will need to create and execute their chances. I'm optimistic!

I am just seeing the social media blowback about the refereeing on the Wales v Fiji game.

Apparently late in the game the ref gave warnings for 5 Welsh infringements when defending on their goal line but didn't show a card. Then allegedly, later on Fiji, fully 10 metres out, infringed once and their dude was carded. Can anyone validate this?

That is very, very bad form if true. One cannot escape the feeling that one of the heavyweights is going to suffer from at least one fatally bad refereeing call this tournament.

George Carlin wrote:I am just seeing the social media blowback about the refereeing on the Wales v Fiji game.

Apparently late in the game the ref gave warnings for 5 Welsh infringements when defending on their goal line but didn't show a card. Then allegedly, later on Fiji, fully 10 metres out, infringed once and their dude was carded. Can anyone validate this?

That is very, very bad form if true. One cannot escape the feeling that one of the heavyweights is going to suffer from at least one fatally bad refereeing call this tournament.

I'm not sure it was that late in the game, we had a warning for a couple of different offences & the next offence which was near the half way line was given a yellow card.

Was that when the Fijian pulled down a maul that was going towards the line at a rate of knots?

George Carlin wrote:I am just seeing the social media blowback about the refereeing on the Wales v Fiji game.

Apparently late in the game the ref gave warnings for 5 Welsh infringements when defending on their goal line but didn't show a card. Then allegedly, later on Fiji, fully 10 metres out, infringed once and their dude was carded. Can anyone validate this?

That is very, very bad form if true. One cannot escape the feeling that one of the heavyweights is going to suffer from at least one fatally bad refereeing call this tournament.

It’s easier for you to watch it. Repeated goal line infringements shouldn’t necessarily equate to a yellow, especially if they’re not the same offence. There’s no certain threshold to be reached before a yellow has to be given. Cynical play collapsing a driving maul steaming forward is more likely to get a card.

I think Wales would probably have changed tack if a yellow had appeared sooner. It’s also worth nothing that social media is ignoring things like clear Fijian forward passes, constant sealing off (especially in their late pressure phases) and their front row standing up constantly in their one period of scrums. Things can be a lot different both ways.

It’s also worth noting that Matt Carley didn’t cost Fiji the game, as much as people on socials seem to be hanging on to the notion. I’ve checked again and he definitely did not knock the ball out of Radradra’s hands.

George Carlin wrote:I am just seeing the social media blowback about the refereeing on the Wales v Fiji game.

Apparently late in the game the ref gave warnings for 5 Welsh infringements when defending on their goal line but didn't show a card. Then allegedly, later on Fiji, fully 10 metres out, infringed once and their dude was carded. Can anyone validate this?

That is very, very bad form if true. One cannot escape the feeling that one of the heavyweights is going to suffer from at least one fatally bad refereeing call this tournament.

Yep, I watched the game and thought it was absolutely outrageous at the time. Total disgrace.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Yep, I watched the game and thought it was absolutely outrageous at the time. Total disgrace.

What part?

It didn't cost Fiji the game but both Bigger and Williams were offences on the line and absolutely cynical. Both could and probably should have been yellows.

And the Fiji one was a yellow, I fully agree

Yeh Biggar not getting a card when cynically killed that ball was a surpise, never mind the other penalties

The fijian yellow was actually deserved, he cynically killed a driving maul that was going over the line - should it have been a penalty try?

I think the Fijian yellow stands out because there was a lot of penalties by Wales in the red zone down their end + biggar killing quick ball, offside, side of the ruck, hands in the ruck, should have been a yellow! If Wales had recieved a card that totally changes the flow of the match. As it was, Wales cleared their lines, got to the fiji 22 and got a fiji player carded (plus a try?).

Genuinely think that from this point Carley realises that he probably should have yellow carded the welsh player earlier and trys to make up for it a bit by overpenalising the welsh.

But as Risca has pointed out, Radrada should have caught that ball. 99 times out of a 100 he does catch it and thats a try with a kick to win it.

Biggar should have been carded just for mouthing off at his own players. Whilst Wales were making stupid decisions, Biggar made some big errors himself but nobody was bawling in his ear!

This is a Scotland thread yeah...?

bsando wrote:I'm feeling more positive after rewatching the match. Absolutely Scotland could have done better, but there is time to amend the mistakes.

The lineout is the biggest part of their game needing attention but the defence, attack and kicking game is all very good. Against SA the rush defence killed Scotland and they just didn't have another way to beat it other than trying to play to their strengths in attack. In the final ten minutes Scotland would have had a try if Price had managed to keep his grubber in play for Kinghorn, no one was back to defend it.

Secondly, the ref played a big part in the match. I found that the way he officiated the breakdown certainly suited SA. Other refs would have been more critical of the bodies flying into and over rucks but I found Gardner to be quite lenient of this throughout.

Most frustratingly though was the fact that SA (apart from individual brilliance) were not that amazing in attack. They butchered a lot of chances and that may be a weakness to their game against the more physical sides in the latter stages.

Overall, for Ireland I think Scotland will have more opportunities against the Irish defence as it is good but not as intense as the Boks. However the lineout will need to be much much better, Ritchie and Darge will need to win more turnovers and the backs will need to create and execute their chances. I'm optimistic!  

Well that is the thing when looking back on a match.

Scotland made some poor decisions and could perhaps have scored more points.

By the same token SA spilled a plethora of chances, imagine they get it right on the day. The scoreline could have been much different than it was.

But then like the New Zealanders call it so often, "we will take our learnings from the matc"

I am sure both Scotland and South Africa will take their learnings from this and show improvement in the weeks to come.

Oakdene wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Yep, I watched the game and thought it was absolutely outrageous at the time. Total disgrace.

What part?

The amount of penalties Wales conceded while camped on their goal line before they even got a warning, then Fiji scored with another penalty advantage. There should have been a yellow early in that series and there could have been one earlier in the game for similar infringements. In general Wales got away with killing Fiji ball a lot throughout that game. However, it was a massive slap in the face to then give Fiji a yellow card for one infringement almost immediately down the other end.

The ref finally gave Wales a yellow when the game was all but over. It was disgraceful refereeing performance in my view.

Collapse2005 wrote:

Oakdene wrote:

Collapse2005 wrote:

Yep, I watched the game and thought it was absolutely outrageous at the time. Total disgrace.

What part?

The amount of penalties Wales conceded while camped on their goal line before they even got a warning, then Fiji scored with another penalty advantage. There should have been a yellow early in that series and there could have been one earlier in the game for similar infringements. In general Wales got away with killing Fiji ball a lot throughout that game. However, it was a massive slap in the face to then give Fiji a yellow card for one infringement almost immediately down the other end.

The ref finally gave Wales a yellow when the game was all but over. It was disgraceful refereeing performance in my view.

The warning was given as a result of the number of penalties given rather than the same thing being penalised & the next infringement we were given a yellow card. The Fiji yellow was lucky not to be given as a penalty try as the player pulled down a maul that was travelling at speed.

Fiji got let off a lot with sealing off rucks & preventing competition for the ball too. Or did you not see that bit?

It hardly matters if the penalties were for different things, they were cynical and prevented Fiji from scoring. Wales conceded close to 20 penalties in that game and got given a token yellow card when the game was already over. It was absolutely farcical. I hope Carley's performance is reviewed thoroughly.

BigGee wrote:As this thread has largely become a discussion on the Wales v Fiji game and it is just about full in any case, it is probably a good time to close it down.

Please feel free to continue to discuss Wales v Fiji on the Welsh thread

If someone wants to start another Scottish thread that would be much appreciated as well

Yessir: https://www.606v2.com/t71220-scotland-rwc-thread