England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Cricket
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England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
First topic message reminder :
June 1st-June 4th: One Test v Ireland (four days)
June 16th-July 31st: Five Tests v Australia
August 30th-September 5th: Four T20s v New Zealand
September 8th-September 15th: Four ODIs v New Zealand
September 20th-September 26th: Three ODIs v Ireland
England try to wrest the Ashes back from Australia, in a series which could be the greatest since 2005. Australia have currently held the urn for just over five years, which is the longest spell of urn-holding since the 1989-2005 period.
Ireland also visit for a test before that, and then there's some limited-overs games squashed into the last days of summer.
June 1st-June 4th: One Test v Ireland (four days)
June 16th-July 31st: Five Tests v Australia
August 30th-September 5th: Four T20s v New Zealand
September 8th-September 15th: Four ODIs v New Zealand
September 20th-September 26th: Three ODIs v Ireland
England try to wrest the Ashes back from Australia, in a series which could be the greatest since 2005. Australia have currently held the urn for just over five years, which is the longest spell of urn-holding since the 1989-2005 period.
Ireland also visit for a test before that, and then there's some limited-overs games squashed into the last days of summer.
Last edited by Duty281 on Sat 13 May 2023, 3:21 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Just noticed it's a four-day test again)
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Beginning to wonder if they should maybe wrap them all in cotton wool until the Tests start...
Hopefully the Robinson injury - like Anderson's - is truly "minor". But it is concerning ; and perhaps settles the XI for the Ireland Test :
Crawley Duckett Pope Root Brook Stokes Bairstow Woakes Broad Leach Potts ?
Hopefully the Robinson injury - like Anderson's - is truly "minor". But it is concerning ; and perhaps settles the XI for the Ireland Test :
Crawley Duckett Pope Root Brook Stokes Bairstow Woakes Broad Leach Potts ?
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Well there's not too much cricket left between now and the Ashes, so hopefully England will avoid further calamity. After today, just the Ireland test and one round of county fixtures remain between now and the Ashes, and with that round of county fixtures due to finish on the 14th June (two days before the first Ashes test) I doubt any of the England players will be making an appearance.
Mind you, we still haven't had the 'fallen over in the dressing room', or 'slipped playing golf', or 'damaged hand while cleaning a fish tank', type injury yet, so we'll need to be on the look out for that.
Of that probable top seven, three of them haven't played any first-class cricket since the NZ tour, and Bairstow has only had four innings in Division Two (high score 36, average 28) on his return from injury. Bairstow is the most intriguing player in England's XI, as he had a stupendous 2022 (average 66 and 6 centuries) but it remains to be seen whether or not he can remain consistent, or if he'll have a barren run to follow (as he did following a strong 2016), and of course the injury he suffered complicates things further. If Bairstow doesn't deliver this summer, there will be a lot of pressure on Root and Brook to supply the runs and cancel out the efforts of Smith and Labuschagne.
Mind you, we still haven't had the 'fallen over in the dressing room', or 'slipped playing golf', or 'damaged hand while cleaning a fish tank', type injury yet, so we'll need to be on the look out for that.
Of that probable top seven, three of them haven't played any first-class cricket since the NZ tour, and Bairstow has only had four innings in Division Two (high score 36, average 28) on his return from injury. Bairstow is the most intriguing player in England's XI, as he had a stupendous 2022 (average 66 and 6 centuries) but it remains to be seen whether or not he can remain consistent, or if he'll have a barren run to follow (as he did following a strong 2016), and of course the injury he suffered complicates things further. If Bairstow doesn't deliver this summer, there will be a lot of pressure on Root and Brook to supply the runs and cancel out the efforts of Smith and Labuschagne.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
The Sussex coach commented on Robinson's injury: "He's got a sore ankle and he'll be scanned on Monday to see how bad he is," Sussex coach Paul Farbrace told BBC Radio Sussex.
"We knew it was sore yesterday and that's why we got one spell out of him this morning. He tried his hardest and got stuck in because he knew it was one only and that would be it for the day.
"It was precautionary really. There was no point in making it worse, and it's walking that makes it sore rather than running."
Doesn't really sound like he's know what he's doing. They knew it was sore but bowled him through another 8 overs anyway? Running is fine, but walking isn't? Oh dear.
I'm starting to lean towards an Australian win in this series, but still reckon it's going to be incredibly close. I think Australia have the edge over England in the batting department, unless Bairstow can replicate last year which would tip the balance; and while I thought England's seamers would have the advantage over Australia purely because of the depth across five densely-packed tests, that depth is not particularly great for England with all these injuries. If Robinson is ruled out of the series tomorrow it'll be a savage blow to England, and of course we're still not sure on how much of a role Anderson will play.
I checked the odds this morning and it is fantastically close - 6/5 that England win the series; 6/5 that Australia win the series.
"We knew it was sore yesterday and that's why we got one spell out of him this morning. He tried his hardest and got stuck in because he knew it was one only and that would be it for the day.
"It was precautionary really. There was no point in making it worse, and it's walking that makes it sore rather than running."
Doesn't really sound like he's know what he's doing. They knew it was sore but bowled him through another 8 overs anyway? Running is fine, but walking isn't? Oh dear.
I'm starting to lean towards an Australian win in this series, but still reckon it's going to be incredibly close. I think Australia have the edge over England in the batting department, unless Bairstow can replicate last year which would tip the balance; and while I thought England's seamers would have the advantage over Australia purely because of the depth across five densely-packed tests, that depth is not particularly great for England with all these injuries. If Robinson is ruled out of the series tomorrow it'll be a savage blow to England, and of course we're still not sure on how much of a role Anderson will play.
I checked the odds this morning and it is fantastically close - 6/5 that England win the series; 6/5 that Australia win the series.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Robinson was seen in a walking boot and on crutches this morning - doesn't seem promising, and those quotes suggest a real dereliction of duty from Sussex towards him. Beginning to think in future the ECB need to be tougher on rest/usage for these bowlers in county stuff, certainly the centrally contracted ones like Robinson and Anderson.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
If it was any other coach I might agree with you but have to imagine that Robinson and Farbrace are pretty close and would have discussed prior to the games play whether he was up to bowling.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Doesn't sound good for Robinson ! Guess the Ashes is still a few weeks off but that stable of fast bowlers seems to be shrinking by the day...
I am certainly not over confident of an England series win . Haven't been at any stage , to be honest ; as I am unsure whether some of the batting performances we've seen recently can be replicated against a fairly strong Australian attack. I do think the home team has a good chance , as recent tours have shown the Aussies don't travel as well as they host ; but reckon it depends on a couple of things.
First , England need a few good starts from the top three. (Four to seven look pretty good at least on paper ; but they probably won't be able to rescue things all the time) . Won't be easy : Crawley's deficiencies have been well documented ; Duckett had a fine tour of Pakistan and wasn't rubbish in NZ , but is yet untested against Australian pace (suppose you could say the same of Brook ; but I'm probably not alone in feeling reasonably confident about his chances). And although Pope has done well at three he was eviscerated by the Aussies down here and will need to overcome any mental scarring if he's to succeed this time.
And of course they will need to keep the Aussie batting under proper pressure throughout. Generally did so , four years ago (only Smith , Labuschagne and Wade really did anything with the bat) ; but in the absence of Anderson the work was done overwhelmingly by Archer and Broad. No Archer this time ; going to need Wood to contribute , I think ... And at least two of the "English type" seamers fit and firing each match. If Stokes can bowl it would be a big help.
On the plus side , a lot of the Aussie line-up has no great pedigree in English conditions. As long as England can put a proper attack on the park they've got a good chance of keeping them honest. But they really don't need the likes of Robinson being sidelined for a lengthy period !
I am certainly not over confident of an England series win . Haven't been at any stage , to be honest ; as I am unsure whether some of the batting performances we've seen recently can be replicated against a fairly strong Australian attack. I do think the home team has a good chance , as recent tours have shown the Aussies don't travel as well as they host ; but reckon it depends on a couple of things.
First , England need a few good starts from the top three. (Four to seven look pretty good at least on paper ; but they probably won't be able to rescue things all the time) . Won't be easy : Crawley's deficiencies have been well documented ; Duckett had a fine tour of Pakistan and wasn't rubbish in NZ , but is yet untested against Australian pace (suppose you could say the same of Brook ; but I'm probably not alone in feeling reasonably confident about his chances). And although Pope has done well at three he was eviscerated by the Aussies down here and will need to overcome any mental scarring if he's to succeed this time.
And of course they will need to keep the Aussie batting under proper pressure throughout. Generally did so , four years ago (only Smith , Labuschagne and Wade really did anything with the bat) ; but in the absence of Anderson the work was done overwhelmingly by Archer and Broad. No Archer this time ; going to need Wood to contribute , I think ... And at least two of the "English type" seamers fit and firing each match. If Stokes can bowl it would be a big help.
On the plus side , a lot of the Aussie line-up has no great pedigree in English conditions. As long as England can put a proper attack on the park they've got a good chance of keeping them honest. But they really don't need the likes of Robinson being sidelined for a lengthy period !
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Suppose we also have to consider whether that 4-7 is as solid as it looks. Root and Stokes (who is also under something of an injury cloud) have been pretty much spectators at the IPL for two months so will be going into the Ireland Test with practically no match play behind them ; Brook - apart from one blistering hundred - has had a wretched IPL which hopefully hasn't dented his confidence ; and Bairstow is only two (fairly modest) FC appearances into comeback from an horrendous injury and a long time out - plus he is again switching roles in the team , albeit to one he has done well at in the past.
Can't guarantee all or any of them will be on top form from the off ; though you'd hope "class is permanent" will be the prevailing factor.
Similar concerns for Australia of course : Smith and Labuschagne (both having enjoyed useful CC warm ups) are almost certain to score significantly whatever England throw at them. But the rest are either relatively unaccustomed to English conditions or have a poor record in them . They'll be hopeful Khawaja can continue his remarkable late career run of form : but that opening pairing (whichever it is) does look a bit iffy ; and who knows whether or not Head Green and Carey will find the Dukes ball on English pitches as easy to deal with as the stuff they are used to ?
I haven't mentioned the spinners. But I think for all his undoubted qualities Jack Leach is unlikely to keep the Aussies awake at night ... unless he gets into an Important Last Wicket Partnership , perhaps
Hopefully he will do a good backup job for the pace men. But I'd concede Lyon gives Australia a decent edge there.
Hey , way to go yet. WTC for one and Ireland for the other so we may have a better idea after those preliminary clashes...
Can't guarantee all or any of them will be on top form from the off ; though you'd hope "class is permanent" will be the prevailing factor.
Similar concerns for Australia of course : Smith and Labuschagne (both having enjoyed useful CC warm ups) are almost certain to score significantly whatever England throw at them. But the rest are either relatively unaccustomed to English conditions or have a poor record in them . They'll be hopeful Khawaja can continue his remarkable late career run of form : but that opening pairing (whichever it is) does look a bit iffy ; and who knows whether or not Head Green and Carey will find the Dukes ball on English pitches as easy to deal with as the stuff they are used to ?
I haven't mentioned the spinners. But I think for all his undoubted qualities Jack Leach is unlikely to keep the Aussies awake at night ... unless he gets into an Important Last Wicket Partnership , perhaps
Hopefully he will do a good backup job for the pace men. But I'd concede Lyon gives Australia a decent edge there.
Hey , way to go yet. WTC for one and Ireland for the other so we may have a better idea after those preliminary clashes...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/wtc-final-australia-confident-in-josh-hazlewood-fitness-despite-side-soreness-during-ipl-1377603
Australia have also had an injury concern over Hazlewood, who returned early from the IPL with a side injury, but scans have shown that he's fine and should be available for the WTC final.
Neser has shown good form in Division Two for Glamorgan this year, 19 wickets at just under 26, and Abbott has done decently for Surrey as well, with 16 wickets at just under 28, so the Aussies have some good back-up to call upon when the initial seam quartet of Boland/Starc/Hazlewood/Cummins need to be rotated.
Expecting the worst news from Robinson's scan later...
Also, if I were Australian, I wouldn't be concerned about the batting. As long as Smith and Labuschagne deliver to their usual standard, then it's all Australia need and anything the rest of the batting order can get will be a bonus. England need to regularly get Steve Smith out into the middle within the first ten overs, otherwise he'll be stepping to the off-side and nudging it leg-side for the next five hours.
Australia have also had an injury concern over Hazlewood, who returned early from the IPL with a side injury, but scans have shown that he's fine and should be available for the WTC final.
Neser has shown good form in Division Two for Glamorgan this year, 19 wickets at just under 26, and Abbott has done decently for Surrey as well, with 16 wickets at just under 28, so the Aussies have some good back-up to call upon when the initial seam quartet of Boland/Starc/Hazlewood/Cummins need to be rotated.
Expecting the worst news from Robinson's scan later...
Also, if I were Australian, I wouldn't be concerned about the batting. As long as Smith and Labuschagne deliver to their usual standard, then it's all Australia need and anything the rest of the batting order can get will be a bonus. England need to regularly get Steve Smith out into the middle within the first ten overs, otherwise he'll be stepping to the off-side and nudging it leg-side for the next five hours.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Duty281 wrote:https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/wtc-final-australia-confident-in-josh-hazlewood-fitness-despite-side-soreness-during-ipl-1377603
Australia have also had an injury concern over Hazlewood, who returned early from the IPL with a side injury, but scans have shown that he's fine and should be available for the WTC final.
Neser has shown good form in Division Two for Glamorgan this year, 19 wickets at just under 26, and Abbott has done decently for Surrey as well, with 16 wickets at just under 28, so the Aussies have some good back-up to call upon when the initial seam quartet of Boland/Starc/Hazlewood/Cummins need to be rotated.
Expecting the worst news from Robinson's scan later...
Also, if I were Australian, I wouldn't be concerned about the batting. As long as Smith and Labuschagne deliver to their usual standard, then it's all Australia need and anything the rest of the batting order can get will be a bonus. England need to regularly get Steve Smith out into the middle within the first ten overs, otherwise he'll be stepping to the off-side and nudging it leg-side for the next five hours.
Yes unfortunately some of the honking LBW decisions Smith has been getting the CC would very much either not be given by International umpires, or definitely overturned by DRS! He's had some proper howlers
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Robinson's scan reveals no damage and he'll still join up with the test squad to play Ireland. Relief for England.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Duty281 wrote:Robinson's scan reveals no damage and he'll still join up with the test squad to play Ireland. Relief for England.
Phew ! Relief indeed. That "walking boot and crutches" quote of Olly's had me a bit worried .
Wonder which bowlers they will be be using for the Ireland match ? Guess it depends primarily on work loads and which player is seen as needing another red ball game before the Ashes...I certainly wouldn't use Robinson if he is still feeling any soreness even if it is "no damage". Got a busy June/July coming up...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
I'd be steering clear of using Robinson or Anderson in the Ireland game. Still leaves Broad, Potts, Woakes and Wood all to choose from.
The Irish will have a three-day warm-up game starting on Friday against Essex.
The Irish will have a three-day warm-up game starting on Friday against Essex.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Whoever is bowling, let's hope they can improve on 85 all out in the first dig
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
I'd also hope we can steer clear of a village wicket this time!VTR wrote:Whoever is bowling, let's hope they can improve on 85 all out in the first dig
Whatever surfaces they're wanting for the Ashes should be prepared. If that's flat tracks then so be it. Given Ireland don't play spin very well at the moment it could be a good means to get overs and confidence into Leach. If they're going with good batting decks whilst Stokes may often be unable to bowl and some aging and/or injury prone seamers then Leach will need to get through plenty of overs and the Aussie will target him.
Broad, Woakes and Potts would be my seam attack for the Ireland Test. If there are any doubts at all over Jimmy and Robinson then I wouldn't risk them. Meanwhile it's not the time to unleash Wood.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2023/may/24/uncapped-josh-tongue-added-joins-england-squad-to-face-ireland-cricket
Josh Tongue has been added to the test squad for the game against Ireland, as a cover option. He might get an unlikely debut with a couple more injuries. He appears to be highly rated by the selectors, but he's been averaging over 40 with the ball (in Division Two) in the last couple of years.
Josh Tongue has been added to the test squad for the game against Ireland, as a cover option. He might get an unlikely debut with a couple more injuries. He appears to be highly rated by the selectors, but he's been averaging over 40 with the ball (in Division Two) in the last couple of years.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Tongue was highly rated and fairly quick when he broke through but has been hampered by injuries. Interesting that he's next cab off an ever growing rank. He was with the Lions and got a Michelle over the winter so not entirely out of the blue.
Matt Fisher has really slipped back.
We must be approaching a return to the squads for Surran as we discussed previously on this thread though.
Matt Fisher has really slipped back.
We must be approaching a return to the squads for Surran as we discussed previously on this thread though.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Yeah I think Tongue is there "for experience with the squad" rather than as a realistic chance of playing. Good Lions performance has him not too far down the queue I guess ; but surely Woakes Broad and Potts are the three seamers who will play.
Agree Curran should be close to a call up - may well see him during the Ashes ?
Agree Curran should be close to a call up - may well see him during the Ashes ?
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
I can potentially see it as cover for Woakes. He's a Stokes and McCullum style player with his attacking lines and length plus his batting.alfie wrote:Yeah I think Tongue is there "for experience with the squad" rather than as a realistic chance of playing. Good Lions performance has him not too far down the queue I guess ; but surely Woakes Broad and Potts are the three seamers who will play.
Agree Curran should be close to a call up - may well see him during the Ashes ?
I've said it a few times but I always felt that Surran was a really good pick when Stokes could bowl but not so much when he can't. Their talents as bowlers complemented each other very well. Surran being great when it swings whilst Stokes doesn't control the new ball as well but has strong stats with the old ball, is (maybe was these days...?) a bit sharper and can bang it in.
I've heard a few allrounders over the years talk about knowing early on they only had a limited number of deliveries in their body. High level seam bowling is terrible for the body if we're honest. Add in the extra wear and tear of performing across disciplines. Then allrounders just playing lots of cricket because they are so valuable. It's unsurprising it takes such a toll.
My fear is Stokes is at that point of knowing he only has so many overs left. The knee injury being non-descript, seemingly something they can't try to fix through surgery and regularly flaring up makes me wonder if he's at the point many bowlers get to where he has basically no cartilage left in that knee. That's where Andre Russell got to. Pretty much bone rubbing on bone, every delivery stride is painful.
Back to the Surran point though. Given the injuries I very much think that Jimmy, Broad and Robinson will be 2 from 3 to keep them fresh. Which opens up that third bowling spot.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
king_carlos wrote: If there are any doubts at all over Jimmy and Robinson then I wouldn't risk them. Meanwhile it's not the time to unleash Wood.
Fairly certain they won't risk Jimmy and Wood. Less sure about Robinson but have to trust his and the medical teams judgement if they do. Those 3 would be my choices for the first test so I hope they all line up in T1.
Always loathe to leave Broad out against the Aussies, especially with his bunny opening up but don't feel he offers more than Robinson now. And they both have similarities in temperament, I.e they both have it in themselves to wind the Aussies up. I notice Starc has already taken the bait that Broady dangled re the last series being void.
Reluctant to leave Woakes out as well given his home record and batting but he will definitely play a part, as will Broady.
Going to be interesting how they manage the bowling.
Got zero concerns with Jimmy not playing against Ireland. He is so experienced, he could miss a year and I'd still back him to hit his line and length from the off.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/jason-roy-planning-to-terminate-ecb-contract-to-play-major-league-cricket-in-the-us-1378294
Roy, and possibly Topley, is planning to ditch his ECB incremental contract to play in the US T20 league that starts in July. Seems to be a lot of money thrown at that league and plenty of star names taking part.
Roy, and possibly Topley, is planning to ditch his ECB incremental contract to play in the US T20 league that starts in July. Seems to be a lot of money thrown at that league and plenty of star names taking part.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Lot of runs in the Essex/Ireland warm-up game, but I'm not sure much can be learnt from it with Essex going in with a second-string attack and about four of Ireland's players actually playing for Essex. Amazed this nonsense game has FC status.
Weather looks excellent for the four-day test.
Ireland have come in for some criticism for not selecting Josh Little - who has played in the IPL and may feature in tomorrow's final, but was dragged out mid-IPL to play in the three ODIs v Bangladesh - but Ireland have stated that the World Cup qualifiers is the priority, not the test, which I think is fair enough, and they want to give the seamer a break ahead of those games. It means Little will have missed all four of Ireland's tests this year.
Weather looks excellent for the four-day test.
Ireland have come in for some criticism for not selecting Josh Little - who has played in the IPL and may feature in tomorrow's final, but was dragged out mid-IPL to play in the three ODIs v Bangladesh - but Ireland have stated that the World Cup qualifiers is the priority, not the test, which I think is fair enough, and they want to give the seamer a break ahead of those games. It means Little will have missed all four of Ireland's tests this year.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2023/may/28/england-should-pull-plug-if-zak-crawley-falters-again-against-irish-nemesis
Ramprakash says England should drop Zak Crawley if he fails v Ireland. Don't disagree with him, but can anyone actually see Crawley being dropped if he scores 7 and 2 v Ireland? He's going to get at least the first two tests v Australia whatever happens.
Ramprakash says England should drop Zak Crawley if he fails v Ireland. Don't disagree with him, but can anyone actually see Crawley being dropped if he scores 7 and 2 v Ireland? He's going to get at least the first two tests v Australia whatever happens.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
https://www.espncricinfo.com/story/england-vs-ireland-lords-test-brendon-mccullum-james-anderson-ollie-robinson-will-be-fit-for-ashes-1378909
The news that we all expected in that Anderson and Robinson will not be playing v Ireland, but both are expected to be fully fit for the 1st Ashes test. Wood rumoured to be starting v Ireland, which I think makes sense as I wouldn't play him in the 1st Ashes test at Edgbaston, but would prefer to play him at Lord's in the 2nd, though I do have reservations about his test bowling ability in England. Might be Wood, Broad and Potts for Ireland?
Stokes not bowling in practice, but McCullum thinks he'll able to at some point this summer.
The news that we all expected in that Anderson and Robinson will not be playing v Ireland, but both are expected to be fully fit for the 1st Ashes test. Wood rumoured to be starting v Ireland, which I think makes sense as I wouldn't play him in the 1st Ashes test at Edgbaston, but would prefer to play him at Lord's in the 2nd, though I do have reservations about his test bowling ability in England. Might be Wood, Broad and Potts for Ireland?
Stokes not bowling in practice, but McCullum thinks he'll able to at some point this summer.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Guess that is much as expected...unsure which three pace men will start though , as I'd originally thought Wood might sit out but Duty's reasoning makes sense.
Not sure what to make of Stokes bowling "at some point" McCullum quote ? Had hoped for something a little more encouraging with June nearly upon us. Still he's also saying that he thinks Anderson and Robinson should be fit for the first Ashes Test so perhaps he is just being cagey : I'd be a bit shocked if either of those two aren't perfectly ready to go with another fortnight to ease back into action.
Meanwhile Australia are still umming and aahing about Hazlewood : I fancy he is a little unlikely to start the WTC final (Why take a risk ? Let's have a look at Boland in English conditions , eh ? ) but you'd expect him to be ready a week or so later. They don't seem to have any other injury worries unless Green has taken some harm from his knock the other day in the IPL.
Not sure what to make of Stokes bowling "at some point" McCullum quote ? Had hoped for something a little more encouraging with June nearly upon us. Still he's also saying that he thinks Anderson and Robinson should be fit for the first Ashes Test so perhaps he is just being cagey : I'd be a bit shocked if either of those two aren't perfectly ready to go with another fortnight to ease back into action.
Meanwhile Australia are still umming and aahing about Hazlewood : I fancy he is a little unlikely to start the WTC final (Why take a risk ? Let's have a look at Boland in English conditions , eh ? ) but you'd expect him to be ready a week or so later. They don't seem to have any other injury worries unless Green has taken some harm from his knock the other day in the IPL.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
A few stats courtesy of Alex Malcolm (cricinfo) on The Grade Cricketer. Hazlewood has only played 4 F-C games in 2 years. The last time he played back to back F-C games was the 2021 Border-Gavaskar trophy. I honestly didn't realise his absences had been that severe.alfie wrote:Guess that is much as expected...unsure which three pace men will start though , as I'd originally thought Wood might sit out but Duty's reasoning makes sense.
Not sure what to make of Stokes bowling "at some point" McCullum quote ? Had hoped for something a little more encouraging with June nearly upon us. Still he's also saying that he thinks Anderson and Robinson should be fit for the first Ashes Test so perhaps he is just being cagey : I'd be a bit shocked if either of those two aren't perfectly ready to go with another fortnight to ease back into action.
Meanwhile Australia are still umming and aahing about Hazlewood : I fancy he is a little unlikely to start the WTC final (Why take a risk ? Let's have a look at Boland in English conditions , eh ? ) but you'd expect him to be ready a week or so later. They don't seem to have any other injury worries unless Green has taken some harm from his knock the other day in the IPL.
I think with Stokes his knee is at the point where this sporadic bowling is what we'll get from now on. Being a problem they can't fix through surgery I can't help but think his knee is cooked basically, when he does bowl he'll be squeezing a finite number of remaining deliveries out of his body in some significant pain.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
king_carlos wrote:A few stats courtesy of Alex Malcolm (cricinfo) on The Grade Cricketer. Hazlewood has only played 4 F-C games in 2 years. The last time he played back to back F-C games was the 2021 Border-Gavaskar trophy. I honestly didn't realise his absences had been that severe.alfie wrote:Guess that is much as expected...unsure which three pace men will start though , as I'd originally thought Wood might sit out but Duty's reasoning makes sense.
Not sure what to make of Stokes bowling "at some point" McCullum quote ? Had hoped for something a little more encouraging with June nearly upon us. Still he's also saying that he thinks Anderson and Robinson should be fit for the first Ashes Test so perhaps he is just being cagey : I'd be a bit shocked if either of those two aren't perfectly ready to go with another fortnight to ease back into action.
Meanwhile Australia are still umming and aahing about Hazlewood : I fancy he is a little unlikely to start the WTC final (Why take a risk ? Let's have a look at Boland in English conditions , eh ? ) but you'd expect him to be ready a week or so later. They don't seem to have any other injury worries unless Green has taken some harm from his knock the other day in the IPL.
I think with Stokes his knee is at the point where this sporadic bowling is what we'll get from now on. Being a problem they can't fix through surgery I can't help but think his knee is cooked basically, when he does bowl he'll be squeezing a finite number of remaining deliveries out of his body in some significant pain.
If that is true then England will be bowling with 4 bowlers. I can't see that working with Leach. When we had 4 bowlers it was Swann, a world class attacking spinner and like Ashwin got roughly 50% of his wickets of left-handers, whereas Leach it's 29% and Lyon it is 35%. Australia will be using a 5th bowler in Green.
Stokes bat and ball 35.92/32.10
Green bat and ball 37.64/34.30
Roughly the same.
Instead of going to the IPL Stokes could have had something done about his knee.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Big surprise as Tongue will make his debut, with Broad and Potts the other seamers. No Woakes or Wood. Rest of the team is as expected, with Bairstow at 7.
England XI vs Ireland: 1 Zak Crawley, 2 Ben Duckett, 3 Ollie Pope, 4 Joe Root, 5 Harry Brook, 6 Ben Stokes (capt), 7 Jonny Bairstow (wk), 8 Stuart Broad, 9 Matthew Potts, 10 Josh Tongue, 11 Jack Leach.
Really surprised at Tongue's inclusion. Since his injuries he's had very poor returns in Division 2, but the coaching staff see something in him.
Ah, I see Mark Wood returned home for the birth of his second child, so I wonder if the plan was to play Wood, but because of his absence they decided on Tongue as they didn't want to risk Woakes?
England XI vs Ireland: 1 Zak Crawley, 2 Ben Duckett, 3 Ollie Pope, 4 Joe Root, 5 Harry Brook, 6 Ben Stokes (capt), 7 Jonny Bairstow (wk), 8 Stuart Broad, 9 Matthew Potts, 10 Josh Tongue, 11 Jack Leach.
Really surprised at Tongue's inclusion. Since his injuries he's had very poor returns in Division 2, but the coaching staff see something in him.
Ah, I see Mark Wood returned home for the birth of his second child, so I wonder if the plan was to play Wood, but because of his absence they decided on Tongue as they didn't want to risk Woakes?
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Tongue concedes 4.5 runs an over in 2023 and 3.40 in his FC career. This is a concern.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Yeah, I'm not really getting the selection from a stats perspective. If they want to take a punt on a county player, it should be Sam Cook. It seems that Tongue did decently for the Lions in the winter, got Steve Smith out in a game v Sussex, and gave Crawley a right going over in the nets, as the reasons for selection.
Looking through some of Tongue's games this season is a bit concerning. 1/114 at an economy of over 6 v Derbyshire, in an innings of 321, is a particular concern. Only 8 maidens in 103 overs this season, and he has the worst average + economy + strike rate of Worcestershire's five main bowlers this season. And turns 26 this year, so not a raw 19/20 year old type either.
Still, let's see what he does v Ireland. For the Ashes he's presumably 7th choice at the moment (behind Anderson/Robinson/Woakes/Wood/Potts/Broad), but a strong performance this week may give him the chance in an Ashes test, especially if further injury happens.
Looking through some of Tongue's games this season is a bit concerning. 1/114 at an economy of over 6 v Derbyshire, in an innings of 321, is a particular concern. Only 8 maidens in 103 overs this season, and he has the worst average + economy + strike rate of Worcestershire's five main bowlers this season. And turns 26 this year, so not a raw 19/20 year old type either.
Still, let's see what he does v Ireland. For the Ashes he's presumably 7th choice at the moment (behind Anderson/Robinson/Woakes/Wood/Potts/Broad), but a strong performance this week may give him the chance in an Ashes test, especially if further injury happens.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Duty281 wrote:Big surprise as Tongue will make his debut, with Broad and Potts the other seamers. No Woakes or Wood. Rest of the team is as expected, with Bairstow at 7.
England XI vs Ireland: 1 Zak Crawley, 2 Ben Duckett, 3 Ollie Pope, 4 Joe Root, 5 Harry Brook, 6 Ben Stokes (capt), 7 Jonny Bairstow (wk), 8 Stuart Broad, 9 Matthew Potts, 10 Josh Tongue, 11 Jack Leach.
Really surprised at Tongue's inclusion. Since his injuries he's had very poor returns in Division 2, but the coaching staff see something in him.
Ah, I see Mark Wood returned home for the birth of his second child, so I wonder if the plan was to play Wood, but because of his absence they decided on Tongue as they didn't want to risk Woakes?
That is how I see it too Duty - Tongue more of a Wood replacement, and they were never risking/playing Woakes in this one, especially with doubts around Anderson and Robinson for the first test...Woakes is the natural replacement for both them bowling wise imo in home conditions.
Tongue does have some concerning stats, but they were by all accounts very impressed by his Lions work this winter. Sam Cook might feel harshly done by, but everytime I've seen him bowl I just see a good county bowler, and the speed gun has him coming in late 70s, early 80s...I suspect he's a bit Porter-esque really.
Also as others have noted with Cook (Guildford I think has raised this), he is a bit of a rabbit with the bat, and merely ok in the field too from what I've read. Not exactly a recipe for a modern international cricketer
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Mentioned above already but it wouldn't surprise me if it comes out eventually that Stokes is at the point where he has no cartilage left in that knee. Often referred to by players in several sports as 'bone on bone'.Jetty wrote:Instead of going to the IPL Stokes could have had something done about his knee.
From what's floating out it sounds like the issue can't be fixed through surgery, flares up when he bowls, is requiring frequent pain killing and anti-inflammatory injections. It's not uncommon for all-rounders due to their workloads from performing across multiple disciplines and just playing a lot of cricket as they're so valuable to any team they're in.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Only slightly surprised at the Tongue selection. Apparently he is a bit quicker than most of the fringe pace men (I've not seen him bowl but going on reports) so understandable they want to have a look at him with an eye to the future. I probably wouldn't have used Wood here anyway but expected Woakes to play... but I guess they already know what he can do so this doesn't mean his chances of appearing in the Ashes series are any less.
Lot of people on BBC hys frothing at the mouth of course but that is par for the course
Glad to see Potts getting a run. Did pretty well in those early Tests last summer and has had a good start to this year in the CC. Probably down the queue a bit when all are fit but remains a handy squad member I think. And who knows how many will be needed later over five close together Tests ?
Lot of people on BBC hys frothing at the mouth of course but that is par for the course
Glad to see Potts getting a run. Did pretty well in those early Tests last summer and has had a good start to this year in the CC. Probably down the queue a bit when all are fit but remains a handy squad member I think. And who knows how many will be needed later over five close together Tests ?
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
king_carlos wrote:Mentioned above already but it wouldn't surprise me if it comes out eventually that Stokes is at the point where he has no cartilage left in that knee. Often referred to by players in several sports as 'bone on bone'.Jetty wrote:Instead of going to the IPL Stokes could have had something done about his knee.
From what's floating out it sounds like the issue can't be fixed through surgery, flares up when he bowls, is requiring frequent pain killing and anti-inflammatory injections. It's not uncommon for all-rounders due to their workloads from performing across multiple disciplines and just playing a lot of cricket as they're so valuable to any team they're in.
Yeah I'm not sure it would be likely he could get a quick fix through surgery - at least for the purpose of fast bowling at Test level. He pretty much rested anyway for most of the IPL so probably hasn't done himself any harm ahead of this summer's Tests. I imagine he will have to be a bit selective about when and how much he bowls from now on ; but hopefully he will be able to put in a shift now and then as the situation requires.
May not be bowling much going further forward ; but that is something that can be addressed in time.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
king_carlos wrote:Mentioned above already but it wouldn't surprise me if it comes out eventually that Stokes is at the point where he has no cartilage left in that knee. Often referred to by players in several sports as 'bone on bone'.Jetty wrote:Instead of going to the IPL Stokes could have had something done about his knee.
From what's floating out it sounds like the issue can't be fixed through surgery, flares up when he bowls, is requiring frequent pain killing and anti-inflammatory injections. It's not uncommon for all-rounders due to their workloads from performing across multiple disciplines and just playing a lot of cricket as they're so valuable to any team they're in.
Yeah this is what it's been alluded too in many reports too Carlos, and even if it was something knee wise that could be addressed by surgery, knee surgery is not something that he would really have been able to fully recover from in time for the Ashes anyways. Just a case of trying to manage it as best as possible really.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Ireland (possible): 1 James McCollum, 2 PJ Moor, 3 Andy Balbirnie (capt), 4 Harry Tector, 5 Paul Stirling, 6 Lorcan Tucker (wk), 7 Curtis Campher, 8 Andy McBrine, 9 Mark Adair, 10 Graham Hume, 11 Craig Young.
That's the possible Ireland team, according to Cricinfo. The two openers put together a 232-run stand against Essex, albeit a very weak Essex bowling attack was present. Tector is the star batsman, getting three fifties in six innings in the subcontinent. Campher the potential star all-rounder; he recorded a test ton in Galle.
McBrine was very expensive in that game against Essex. Don't know much about Graham Hume, but he has 316 FC wickets at an average of 18.3, so he might be worth keeping an eye on. Although he did struggle in the subcontinent where he played his first two tests, conditions here should be much more to his liking.
Weather looks very good, so even though it's just a four-dayer the chances of a draw look tiny. England massive favourites. It would be, I think, the biggest shock in test history if Ireland were to win. But Ireland have given England some shocks before in the cricket.
That's the possible Ireland team, according to Cricinfo. The two openers put together a 232-run stand against Essex, albeit a very weak Essex bowling attack was present. Tector is the star batsman, getting three fifties in six innings in the subcontinent. Campher the potential star all-rounder; he recorded a test ton in Galle.
McBrine was very expensive in that game against Essex. Don't know much about Graham Hume, but he has 316 FC wickets at an average of 18.3, so he might be worth keeping an eye on. Although he did struggle in the subcontinent where he played his first two tests, conditions here should be much more to his liking.
Weather looks very good, so even though it's just a four-dayer the chances of a draw look tiny. England massive favourites. It would be, I think, the biggest shock in test history if Ireland were to win. But Ireland have given England some shocks before in the cricket.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Not long to wait now for the start of the English Test Summer... Not sure Ireland are the ideal "warm up" opponents for an Ashes contest ; but they can't have NZ over every year to start the season
Sounds like this is a bit of a minor diversion for Ireland too with their white ball WC qualification quest still the main event for them : though I am sure they'd love to add a red ball success to previous limited overs surprises over England !
You'd think an England win should be pretty straightforward , rather than this being a banana skin moment . But I guess they were shot out for 85 four years ago and ended up reliant on a Jack Leach batting masterclass to get back into the game , before Woakes turned on the afterburners and destroyed the Irish second innings ; so maybe should take nothing for granted.( Do have to wonder though if England weren't still just a little "high" from the WC victory a few days earlier when they came out to bat on day one ! )
Ireland have about five who played in that match going around again , I think. Not the destroyer Murtagh though so will need someone else to stand up for the bowling unit ; though they have a promising looking batting line-up.
As for England , only four players who played in 2019 up today. While Jack Leach will remember that match quite fondly , I imagine Jonny Bairstow will be rather less keen to recall it . He will doubtless be looking to improve his batting average against Ireland : a very low bar to clear since it stands at Zero after an inglorious "pair" last time around
Root and Broad the only other returnees ; and I confess I am most interested this time in seeing what surprise selection Tongue can bring to the party.
Suppose Crawley might be seen to be a bit "on trial" (though they seem committed to him for now in any case) Perhaps worth recalling that Jason Roy managed 70 odd in the second innings in 2019 - which unfortunately got him most of the following Ashes Tests . It really didn't do him , or England , much good ; so if he makes a quick hundred tonight I am not going to declare the opening spot problem "solved" immediately
Anyway never mind what we can take or not from this one for the future , it will be nice to get back to watching some proper cricket after all the colourful all singing and dancing short form circus stuff that has been hogging the local TV stations for the last couple of months. I'm sure Root (likely a bit bored of sitting on a bench) and Brook (after enduring an unaccustomed run of rubbish scores) will be glad to get back to this format too ; to say nothing of Stokes - fingers crossed for that knee !
Weather set fair , I trust ?
Sounds like this is a bit of a minor diversion for Ireland too with their white ball WC qualification quest still the main event for them : though I am sure they'd love to add a red ball success to previous limited overs surprises over England !
You'd think an England win should be pretty straightforward , rather than this being a banana skin moment . But I guess they were shot out for 85 four years ago and ended up reliant on a Jack Leach batting masterclass to get back into the game , before Woakes turned on the afterburners and destroyed the Irish second innings ; so maybe should take nothing for granted.( Do have to wonder though if England weren't still just a little "high" from the WC victory a few days earlier when they came out to bat on day one ! )
Ireland have about five who played in that match going around again , I think. Not the destroyer Murtagh though so will need someone else to stand up for the bowling unit ; though they have a promising looking batting line-up.
As for England , only four players who played in 2019 up today. While Jack Leach will remember that match quite fondly , I imagine Jonny Bairstow will be rather less keen to recall it . He will doubtless be looking to improve his batting average against Ireland : a very low bar to clear since it stands at Zero after an inglorious "pair" last time around
Root and Broad the only other returnees ; and I confess I am most interested this time in seeing what surprise selection Tongue can bring to the party.
Suppose Crawley might be seen to be a bit "on trial" (though they seem committed to him for now in any case) Perhaps worth recalling that Jason Roy managed 70 odd in the second innings in 2019 - which unfortunately got him most of the following Ashes Tests . It really didn't do him , or England , much good ; so if he makes a quick hundred tonight I am not going to declare the opening spot problem "solved" immediately
Anyway never mind what we can take or not from this one for the future , it will be nice to get back to watching some proper cricket after all the colourful all singing and dancing short form circus stuff that has been hogging the local TV stations for the last couple of months. I'm sure Root (likely a bit bored of sitting on a bench) and Brook (after enduring an unaccustomed run of rubbish scores) will be glad to get back to this format too ; to say nothing of Stokes - fingers crossed for that knee !
Weather set fair , I trust ?
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Weather is set fair Alfie - up to 20 degrees over the weekend, positively barmy! Think you can stay up in knowledge the british summer shouldn't effect this match
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
En-ger-land win the toss and will field first. Looks a bowl-first morning according to Nasser, but didn't he say that in 2002?
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Rather expected Stokes to field first if he got the choice - regardless of the state of the morning. They like chasing...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Zak Crawley is not too tall to be a test slip. Two for Broad early on.
Hopefully England get an innings win and don't have to do any of that chasing lark. Not after last time...
Hopefully England get an innings win and don't have to do any of that chasing lark. Not after last time...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Decent first few overs from Broad...only a centimetre away from having four in four overs.
Not quite the start Ireland wanted. Tector going so quickly a bit of a blow given his recent form.
And a good start to the day for Crawley with that nice catch. He's a bit of an "inconsistent" catcher , you'd have to say.
Not quite the start Ireland wanted. Tector going so quickly a bit of a blow given his recent form.
And a good start to the day for Crawley with that nice catch. He's a bit of an "inconsistent" catcher , you'd have to say.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Nice first over from Tongue...good line , brisk. Bit odd that the last two balls didn't carry to the keeper...will be interesting to see how this "different" pitch plays as we go on.
Leach with an early entry now...
Leach with an early entry now...
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Useful stand broken at 45 as Leach strikes... Stirling wanted to get after him ; but he was outfoxed there and it's 64/4. Leach has grown in confidence indeed under this regime.
Like the way Stokes has handled his bowlers today (and the field placings) . Short initial burst for the new boy - who was building up some lively pace , pushing 90. He's back again now I see.
They burned one review on a rather hopeful caught behind earlier : might have been a bit too keen to see Tongue get his first wicket ? But it was a ripper of a delivery. Let's see how he backs up this spell...
Like the way Stokes has handled his bowlers today (and the field placings) . Short initial burst for the new boy - who was building up some lively pace , pushing 90. He's back again now I see.
They burned one review on a rather hopeful caught behind earlier : might have been a bit too keen to see Tongue get his first wicket ? But it was a ripper of a delivery. Let's see how he backs up this spell...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Lunch after 26 overs (slightly surprised as I'd thought they were going quite quickly , and Leach bowled for some time) at 78/4.
McCollum has done well to bat through for 29. But I think England will be fairly happy with their morning's work .
McCollum has done well to bat through for 29. But I think England will be fairly happy with their morning's work .
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Quite gentle stuff. Lord's always has that sleepy feel. Broad's first spell was good, and Tongue's had a pleasant intensity and speed, but Potts has looked mostly one-paced and I'm never a fan of seeing Leach on the first morning (though he did get a wicket). Ireland have got a platform to reach 200+, although I'm not sure how good their tail is. Don't think conditions have been as favourable as England would have hoped, but they'll pleased enough with the outcome.
Key moment was Stirling getting that 1cm reprieve on DRS; without that Ireland would have been 19/4 and could have been shot out this morning.
Key moment was Stirling getting that 1cm reprieve on DRS; without that Ireland would have been 19/4 and could have been shot out this morning.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Worth noting with Leach that the big change has been the jigging of his action to get more (or any given the prior lack thereof!) drift. Previously he wasn't getting any movement in the air and when conditions didn't suit little of the deck either. Lots of side spin but no drift or dip meant he could be lethal when the stars aligned but often struggled otherwise. Hence those well known stats against right-handers in the 2nd innings on turning pitches being excellent!
Those changes started when he worked with Jeetan Patel I believe. It's been a winding road for Leach but it is showing some results now.
How he goes against an Australian side with lots of lefties on flat decks will be a big test of his progression.
Those changes started when he worked with Jeetan Patel I believe. It's been a winding road for Leach but it is showing some results now.
How he goes against an Australian side with lots of lefties on flat decks will be a big test of his progression.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Looks quite nice for batting after lunch , in the sunshine...but Broad has ended the McCollum vigil at 38 , enticing a little nibble to slip which Joe Root is happy to accept.
Four for the senior bowler and it's 98/5. Broad has his tail up...
Four for the senior bowler and it's 98/5. Broad has his tail up...
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Broad is bowling really well here...constantly threatening the outside edge and the batsman is having trouble picking whether the ball is coming in or leaving him. Slips are looking expectant...
Nearly had him lbw now. But not sure this isn't doing too much ? They review anyway...no bat...will be close...but missing leg , as I feared.
Only one review left. Better take care next time chaps...
But Leach has pinned his man now after a long delay from umpire Holdstock...umpire's call won't save Tucker. 109/6
Nearly had him lbw now. But not sure this isn't doing too much ? They review anyway...no bat...will be close...but missing leg , as I feared.
Only one review left. Better take care next time chaps...
But Leach has pinned his man now after a long delay from umpire Holdstock...umpire's call won't save Tucker. 109/6
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Broad was superb in that afternoon spell. Deserved more than just one wicket.
Two very poor reviews from England. Can't afford that in the Ashes.
Two very poor reviews from England. Can't afford that in the Ashes.
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Re: England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
Broad bowled beautifully, really getting the ball swinging - both ways! That newly talked about "outswinger" making an appearance
Good Golly I'm Olly- Tractor Boy
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» England's Summer of Cricket 2023, Featuring The Ashes
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