England 2023 - Post 6N and beyond - Prep for WC

by Sgt_Pooly Fri 30 Jun - 12:38

First topic message reminder :

Continued.....

by doctor_grey Sun 2 Jul - 16:32

Rugby Fan wrote:
This from Charlie Morgan:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2023/07/01/england-rugby-world-cup-back-row-tom-pearson/

While it was not as bombastic as anything his predecessor might have proclaimed, Steve Borthwick still caused ears to prick up by urging World Cup rivals to expect the unexpected from England.

Does this mean Farrell won't kick away possession inside the opposition 22?

by mountain man Sun 2 Jul - 16:55

Course not. It's the old double bluff, they'll expect England to now not do that but Youngs is primed and ready to go.

by formerly known as Sam Sun 2 Jul - 17:37

mountain man wrote:
The one that sticks in my head was I never thought farrell at 12 would work, spectacularly wrong on that.

So by that you think Farrell at 12 is a spectacular success? Got to say I am not convinced and think he is a far better 10 and England definitely have better 12s than him.

To be fair there was the record breaking winning run and the run to the 2019 final where he played 12 and England did pretty well. We were lacking a bit in options at 12 and benefitted more from Ford being at 10. We are back to lacking at 12 again which is a shame as I'd hoped we were at a point were we might be able to move on from Farrell entirely as a starter but doesn't seem likely.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 2 Jul - 18:03

formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:I'm trying to a spin on it that at least gives me hope! A large part of the media supported his appointment so yes it'll take some really poor results or displays to swing them.

So you're desperate for England to fail so that Borthwick goes?

There wasn't a better option for England to select. McCall and Baxter weren't interested. Robertson was after the All Blacks job (which he took shortly after Borthers was appointed). There's the likes of Sanderson and Skivington who are similar to Borthwick but so far less successful otherwise you were looking to buy out a more well known coach but most were not available.

It's always an awkward one that isn't it. I'll sit watching the games hoping it all falls into place. I'm in the mind space that we're not going to develop or play am entertaining game no matter what the time given to him is so it's a bit like a band aid.

As per the Leicester ceo (? Sorry forgotten her name again) Borthwick was the only guy in the picture. Long term planning can be a good thing of course. As much as I love the idea of the rfu doing a proper round Robin of candidates it didn't happen. 1 candidate. They were clapping their decision as it's the development coach thong they wanted.

I hope I speak enough crap on here for people to know I'll hold my hands up and say well done when I think I was wrong. The one that sticks in my head was I never thought farrell at 12 would work, spectacularly wrong on that.

Pinchen the Tigers CEO talked to the RFU last summer and asked was Borthwick in contention for appointment this summer. The RFU confirmed it. In a rare moment of decent organisation from the RFU they had clearly decided on their preferred successor well in advance of Eddie leaving. So when Eddie was sacked early then it made sense to bring ahead the plan. Tigers weren't very happy about it obviously as they had their own succession plans thrown into the toilet.

There has been an interview with the guy whose job it is to develop EQ coaches around the world. The RFU were keeping tabs on hundreds of coaches for both the current selection and for possible future hirings or assistance. Borthwick was just the obvious hire.

Think the one I read was after he'd been approached so while there may have been a wider pool one was approached. He may have been the obvious choice for some I think he's lacking.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 2 Jul - 18:05

mountain man wrote:
The one that sticks in my head was I never thought farrell at 12 would work, spectacularly wrong on that.

So by that you think Farrell at 12 is a spectacular success? Got to say I am not convinced and think he is a far better 10 and England definitely have better 12s than him.

Yes since 2016 I think he's been a huge success there. Would have been in the top 3 inside centres for me in most of those years tbh. That said I don't disagree with thoughts he's a better fly half.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 2 Jul - 18:07

formerly known as Sam wrote:
mountain man wrote:
The one that sticks in my head was I never thought farrell at 12 would work, spectacularly wrong on that.

So by that you think Farrell at 12 is a spectacular success? Got to say I am not convinced and think he is a far better 10 and England definitely have better 12s than him.

To be fair there was the record breaking winning run and the run to the 2019 final where he played 12 and England did pretty well. We were lacking a bit in options at 12 and benefitted more from Ford being at 10. We are back to lacking at 12 again which is a shame as I'd hoped we were at a point were we might be able to move on from Farrell entirely as a starter but doesn't seem likely.

I don't think it's ever been a case of considering Farrell not being in the team. If there's a choice between Ford or Farrell it's always been comfortably Farrell.

As for lacking a 12 well yeah I'd have liked to have seen newbies included in this squad but not chosen. It'll be Farrell tuilagi and Lawrence.

by mountain man Sun 2 Jul - 20:21

I'm thinking more of the last 12 months where we had Smith 10 and Farrell 12. When Lawrence came in at 12(finally) just looked so much better.

by No 7&1/2 Sun 2 Jul - 20:45

mountain man wrote:I'm thinking more of the last 12 months where we had Smith 10 and Farrell 12. When Lawrence came in at 12(finally) just looked so much better.

I'd agree. But that's like 6 or 7 years on.

by mountain man Sun 2 Jul - 21:56

Which is relevant. 6 or 7 years ago isn't really

by No 7&1/2 Mon 3 Jul - 7:19

mountain man wrote:Which is relevant. 6 or 7 years ago isn't really

It's relevant to the point I made.

by mountain man Mon 3 Jul - 8:45

Fair enough.

Would you though pick Farrell at 12 for RWC? I wouldn't unless there literally wasn't anyone else who could play there.
I as it happens pre 6N was calling for Smith 10 and Farrell 12 but it just didn't work. Would it with Ford 10 and Farrell 12 now?
Much as I think Manu best days long gone and he is just guaranteed to go off injured at some stage, I'd have him or Lawrence(if fit) at 12 every time over Farrell. Farrell far better 10.

Again as been said too many times now, issue is he's captain so he going to be picked.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 3 Jul - 8:50

I'd have him for cover there probably at some point, but I'd have been going with Kelly as my first choice 12.

by Geordie Mon 3 Jul - 8:54

We dont know if Lawrence will be fit. How bad was his injury...i thought i read about 6 weeks out but it was still being assessed.
If he doesnt make it...

10 Ford
12 Farrell
13 Tuilagi / Marchant

Dear lord i hope next season we see one or a couple of Atkinson, Ojomoh, Kelly, Ollie Hartley etc etc really start to make a claim for the 12 shirt with consistently outstanding performances in the prem .

by mountain man Mon 3 Jul - 8:54

I didn't mention Kelly as he's not in squad.

by mountain man Mon 3 Jul - 8:58

Geordie wrote:We dont know if Lawrence will be fit. How bad was his injury...i thought i read about 6 weeks out but it was still being assessed.
If he doesnt make it...

10 Ford
12 Farrell
13 Tuilagi / Marchant

Dear lord i hope next season we see one or a couple of Atkinson, Ojomoh, Kelly, Ollie Hartley etc etc really start to make a claim for the 12 shirt with consistently outstanding performances in the prem .

If Lawrence not fit then :

9 Care (JvP bench)
10 Farrell (Ford)
12 Manu (Farrell I guess)
13 Marchant (Daly?)

Basically we're back to not having enough options at centre AGAIN.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 3 Jul - 9:04

mountain man wrote:I didn't mention Kelly as he's not in squad.

Yeah well, more Borthwick errors. From the current squad Tuilagi at 12 else I would have Farrell there.

by mountain man Mon 3 Jul - 9:13

No 7&1/2 wrote:
mountain man wrote:I didn't mention Kelly as he's not in squad.

Yeah well, more Borthwick errors. From the current squad Tuilagi at 12 else I would have Farrell there.

As would I (see previous post). Who then is your 10 if Manu at 12?

by Geordie Mon 3 Jul - 9:21

Is Kelly fit though? Is he physically able to do a grueling world cup ? He cant make a few prem games on the trot.

And i know Manu is the same....

by No 7&1/2 Mon 3 Jul - 9:24

mountain man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
mountain man wrote:I didn't mention Kelly as he's not in squad.

Yeah well, more Borthwick errors. From the current squad Tuilagi at 12 else I would have Farrell there.

As would I (see previous post). Who then is your 10 if Manu at 12?

My ten if fit is always Smith. The best 10 we have by a distance. I'm a bit undecided by who I'd have at 9 given those options, well it's vP and Care but not sure which way round.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 3 Jul - 9:26

Geordie wrote:Is Kelly fit though? Is he physically able to do a grueling world cup ? He cant make a few prem games on the trot.

And i know Manu is the same....

Throw Lawes in there, all of the players in for rehab or just plain injured as well. Underhill etc etc. Rugby players are always going to pick up injuries to an extent. And fitness shouldn't overly be an issue, it was 1 of myriad reasons talked about through a poor 6Ns, they have the guru there now.

by mountain man Mon 3 Jul - 9:34

Underhill is/was a brilliant player but too many injuries and serious concussions. I was slightly suprised to see him in squad as at least backrow is one area of relative strength in depth for England.

Manu doesn't last a whole game these days let alone several on the trot.

by Poorfour Mon 3 Jul - 9:37

No 7&1/2 wrote:
mountain man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
mountain man wrote:I didn't mention Kelly as he's not in squad.

Yeah well, more Borthwick errors. From the current squad Tuilagi at 12 else I would have Farrell there.

As would I (see previous post). Who then is your 10 if Manu at 12?

My ten if fit is always Smith. The best 10 we have by a distance. I'm a bit undecided by who I'd have at 9 given those options, well it's vP and Care but not sure which way round.

A lot can change given time in camp, but if Smith is playing 10 I would tend to want Care at 9 for three reasons:
1) He and Smith know each others' games inside out. England are likely to get more out of both players by having them working together.
2) He offers the best balance of experience and form. JVP has form but is still very green at international level; Youngs has experience but his form has gone off the boil.
3) This is Care's last chance at an RWC and after missing 2011 with a freak injury, being bench fodder in 2015 and dropped altogether in 2019 he is going to be giving it everything. He'll also have been on the blower to Andy Gomarsall, who was one of his mentors at Quins and had a similar experience in 2007 of going from the scrapheap to the RWC.

I'd also argue that Care is the best scrum half pairing for Farrell, as he adds the element of creativity that Farrell lacks compared to Ford or Smith. JVP or Youngs would be better if Ford is going to start, though.

by mountain man Mon 3 Jul - 9:44

JVP or Youngs would be better if Ford is going to start, though.

Yeah but imagine that scenario :
9 Youngs
10 Ford
12 Farrell (as he's capt he'll be in team)

No thanks.

by Poorfour Mon 3 Jul - 9:48

mountain man wrote:Underhill is/was a brilliant player but too many injuries and serious concussions. I was slightly suprised to see him in squad as at least backrow is one area of relative strength in depth for England.

Manu doesn't last a whole game these days let alone several on the trot.

With you on Underhill, and a year or so ago I'd have agreed with you about Manu but he's put together a better run of games over the last two seasons. Still not week in, week out, but for a guy in his 30s (when did that happen?) playing his kind of game, 11 games per season at 60 minutes+ per game is not too bad.

Given the structure of England's tournament, they can also manage Manu quite carefully - they shouldn't need to play him in all the pool games, so the question is whether they can get a run of 4 50-60 minute games out of him.

One of the nicer things about England's backline options is that they can change the style of the game from the bench. I can imagine a team that starts with Ford or Smith at 10, Farrell at 12 and Manu at 13, which allows them to have two contrasting styles of centre on the bench - Lawrence and Marchant, say. That allows for several different backline configurations late in the game, depending on whether it's retaining its structure or is opening up.

I'm reminded of the de Glanville / Carling / Guscott combination of the late 90s, where Guscott was only brought onto the pitch when there was space for him to exploit (probably one of the earliest genuinely tactical substitutions in rugby). Borthwick's enough of a rugby nerd that I am sure he'll have that and many more examples in mind.

by Poorfour Mon 3 Jul - 9:50

mountain man wrote:
JVP or Youngs would be better if Ford is going to start, though.

Yeah but imagine that scenario :
9 Youngs
10 Ford
12 Farrell (as he's capt he'll be in team)

No thanks.

Got us to an RWC Final last time out, though. I do think Youngs is well below his best, though.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 3 Jul - 10:06

Geordie wrote:Is Kelly fit though? Is he physically able to do a grueling world cup ? He cant make a few prem games on the trot.

And i know Manu is the same....

Even with the big injury at the end of last season he managed 23 games (season before that 18 games). This season he wasn't fit until December from said injury and managed 13 games, there being a reoccurrence of the injury just before the 6N which ruled him out for a few weeks. At 22 he's played 57 games for Tigers (not inc internationals) having joined when he was 19 from Loughborough Uni. Not sure it's fair to tar him with the same injury prone brush as Manu. Manu managing just 39 games in the last 3 seasons at Sale (inc internationals).

Kelly and Seb Atkinson should be the future in the 12 shirt but can understand why Borthwick didn't want to throw them in the deep end, personally I'd have at least given Kelly a friendly or two to state his case.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 3 Jul - 10:07

Poorfour wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
mountain man wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:
mountain man wrote:I didn't mention Kelly as he's not in squad.

Yeah well, more Borthwick errors. From the current squad Tuilagi at 12 else I would have Farrell there.

As would I (see previous post). Who then is your 10 if Manu at 12?

My ten if fit is always Smith. The best 10 we have by a distance. I'm a bit undecided by who I'd have at 9 given those options, well it's vP and Care but not sure which way round.

A lot can change given time in camp, but if Smith is playing 10 I would tend to want Care at 9 for three reasons:
1) He and Smith know each others' games inside out. England are likely to get more out of both players by having them working together.
2) He offers the best balance of experience and form. JVP has form but is still very green at international level; Youngs has experience but his form has gone off the boil.
3) This is Care's last chance at an RWC and after missing 2011 with a freak injury, being bench fodder in 2015 and dropped altogether in 2019 he is going to be giving it everything. He'll also have been on the blower to Andy Gomarsall, who was one of his mentors at Quins and had a similar experience in 2007 of going from the scrapheap to the RWC.

I'd also argue that Care is the best scrum half pairing for Farrell, as he adds the element of creativity that Farrell lacks compared to Ford or Smith. JVP or Youngs would be better if Ford is going to start, though.

Care showed Vs Australia last summer he can't control an international game. He's the impact sub at most for me. JvP probably starts with Youngs the mentor in the squad who starts if JvP is injured.

by Geordie Mon 3 Jul - 10:11

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Geordie wrote:Is Kelly fit though? Is he physically able to do a grueling world cup ? He cant make a few prem games on the trot.

And i know Manu is the same....

Even with the big injury at the end of last season he managed 23 games (season before that 18 games). This season he wasn't fit until December from said injury and managed 13 games, there being a reoccurrence of the injury just before the 6N which ruled him out for a few weeks. At 22 he's played 57 games for Tigers (not inc internationals) having joined when he was 19 from Loughborough Uni. Not sure it's fair to tar him with the same injury prone brush as Manu. Manu managing just 39 games in the last 3 seasons at Sale (inc internationals).

Kelly and Seb Atkinson should be the future in the 12 shirt but can understand why Borthwick didn't want to throw them in the deep end, personally I'd have at least given Kelly a friendly or two to state his case.

Not tarring him with the same brush Sam...just saying at the moment he cant get fit for an England shirt. Its like James Simpson Daniel all over.

by **Rugby Fan** Mon 3 Jul - 10:38

I find it hard to have strong views about the composition of the squad. After the 2019 World Cup, even with the manner of defeat in the final, there would have been reasonable English representation in a World XV. Not so now, as so few of our best players kicked on at Test level, and newer talent has yet to make a mark.

For whatever reason - coaching, preparation, gameplan, or just finding it hard to step up - no-one has really looked to the manor born for some time. Lawrence certainly won widespread plaudits, and yet it seemed more like he didn't make obvious blunders, rather than standing out.

As a consequence, looking at any England XV gives little indication of how the team will perform. For instance, do we get 2019 Itoje and Tom Curry, or their less imposing 2021 Lions tour versions?

When Jones took over, he had some good players, who weren't especially well-rated. Jones himself had disparaged Chris Robshaw. However, during that record unbeaten run, the team showed some real dog. Robshaw, Haskell played their hearts out, with Vunipola getting us on the front foot. We didn't complain about not having a settled midfield, or relying too much on Tuilagi. Manu wasn't available, and Farrell and Joseph seemed to be able to handle everything thrown at them.

In the end, Borthwick has to work some alchemy to get the team playing for each other. Jones had a helping hand, with a core of decent players, determined to prove their detractors wrong. In some respects, I don't care who Borthwick picks, so long as he can make the team look greater than the sum of their parts. Even when England have won, that really hasn't been the case since the 2019 semi-final against NZ.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 3 Jul - 10:41

We've seen for a good while now though that Youngs is simply not good enough. I don't really understand the thinking between him being brought on vs Scotland to get dropped out of sight to being back in the squad.

by mountain man Mon 3 Jul - 10:45

Lawrence certainly won widespread plaudits, and yet it seemed more like he didn't make obvious blunders, rather than standing out.

I think that's a bit harsh, Lawrence proved in Premiership for Bath and also when he got into England side he made a big difference.

I agree likes of Itoje and Curry long way off their previous form although Itoje looked like he was getting back to it by end of season.

by **Rugby Fan** Mon 3 Jul - 11:16

mountain man wrote:Lawrence proved in Premiership for Bath and also when he got into England side he made a big difference.

Yes, Lawrence did make a big impact with Bath. I don't think he has so far done the same with England. The highlights video below starts with his try against Wales, but the contrast between his club and country impacts is noticeable. If he can start causing mayhem for England in the same way he did for Bath, then we'll be in a good place.

by doctor_grey Mon 3 Jul - 13:39

Rugby Fan wrote:
mountain man wrote:Lawrence proved in Premiership for Bath and also when he got into England side he made a big difference.
Yes, Lawrence did make a big impact with Bath. I don't think he has so far done the same with England. The highlights video below starts with his try against Wales, but the contrast between his club and country impacts is noticeable. If he can start causing mayhem for England in the same way he did for Bath, then we'll be in a good place.

I think we need to see a real 12 play in the 12 hole for England and see what can happen. Lawrence seems the best candidate for the moment.

If - and this is a big if - Tuilagi stays healthy, I would enjoy seeing him coming in off the bench around 60 minutes to help pulverize a tiring defense. Not sure how practical it would be, but would be fun.

by Geordie Mon 3 Jul - 13:44

Id rather focus Lawrence on his 13 position, get through the World Cup with Farrell or Manu then really push for one of the yonug kids to come through...Kelly, Atkinson, Hartley, Ojomoh.

All at different stages of development with Kelly then Atkinson probably most developed...but Hartley for example is at Saracens and already played some cup games at 19/20 year old. At 6'4 he also has a physical presence.

Surely to go from these and maybe some others who appear we can finally get our centres sorted!!

by doctor_grey Mon 3 Jul - 13:48

I am thinking only short term, just the RWC. Would you play Tuilagi and Lawrence together?

by Geordie Mon 3 Jul - 14:08

No i dont think id play Manu and Lawrence together.

Its Farrell and Lawrence
Or
Manu and Marchant i would say.

Of course were still waiting for the update on lawrences injury

by formerly known as Sam Mon 3 Jul - 14:10

Lawrence has 11 caps with 8 starts with four of those game and three of those starts coming in the 6N just gone. He's quite inexperienced at international level so far but has shown enough to keep the shirt.

I'd certainly trial Manu and Lawrence together though ideally you want Ford in at 10 and we know Farrell will start somewhere so that hampers that.

by doctor_grey Mon 3 Jul - 14:33

Part of the problem with Ford at 10 is that is seems to automatically imply Farrell at 12. At the minimum, in the training games Ford needs game time with Farrell not in the 23.

Since the last RWC Farrell is clearly showing mileage/age whilst Ford looks fresher. I like the idea of a powerful mid-field. At least, give it a lash.

by No 7&1/2 Mon 3 Jul - 14:39

It's clearly Farrell and Slade anyway.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 3 Jul - 16:19

doctor_grey wrote:Part of the problem with Ford at 10 is that is seems to automatically imply Farrell at 12. At the minimum, in the training games Ford needs game time with Farrell not in the 23.

Since the last RWC Farrell is clearly showing mileage/age whilst Ford looks fresher. I like the idea of a powerful mid-field. At least, give it a lash.

We live in hope.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 3 Jul - 16:19

No 7&1/2 wrote:It's clearly Farrell and Slade anyway.

With Lawrence or Manu in between might be ok, as a centre combination that's migraine inducingly bad.

by doctor_grey Mon 3 Jul - 18:09

formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:It's clearly Farrell and Slade anyway.

With Lawrence or Manu in between might be ok, as a centre combination that's migraine inducingly bad.

As your friendly neighborhood physician, I can help with the migraine. As you know, migraines can be very severe and debilitating. Most commonly, Sumatriptan (brand names Imitrex, Imigran), is prescribed and does a very nice job controlling/narrowing the blood vessels in the brain which relieves the discomfort. However, in the case of the above mentioned mid-field, I doubt its efficacy and would recommend going straight to whisky. By the bottle. And you don't need to wait for the NHS....

by doctor_grey Mon 3 Jul - 18:12

formerly known as Sam wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:Part of the problem with Ford at 10 is that is seems to automatically imply Farrell at 12. At the minimum, in the training games Ford needs game time with Farrell not in the 23.

Since the last RWC Farrell is clearly showing mileage/age whilst Ford looks fresher. I like the idea of a powerful mid-field. At least, give it a lash.

We live in hope.

New sign over Twickenham: Abandon hope all ye who enter here

by lostinwales Mon 3 Jul - 19:39

Hasn't SB already announced Farrell as skipper?
No hope....

by formerly known as Sam Mon 3 Jul - 21:29

lostinwales wrote:Hasn't SB already announced Farrell as skipper?
No hope....

Farrell is skipper with Genge and Lawes as vice captains.

by formerly known as Sam Mon 3 Jul - 21:32

doctor_grey wrote:
formerly known as Sam wrote:
No 7&1/2 wrote:It's clearly Farrell and Slade anyway.

With Lawrence or Manu in between might be ok, as a centre combination that's migraine inducingly bad.
As your friendly neighborhood physician, I can help with the migraine. As you know, migraines can be very severe and debilitating. Most commonly, Sumatriptan (brand names Imitrex, Imigran), is prescribed and does a very nice job controlling/narrowing the blood vessels in the brain which relieves the discomfort. However, in the case of the above mentioned mid-field, I doubt its efficacy and would recommend going straight to whisky. By the bottle. And you don't need to wait for the NHS....

Borthwick has always tended to have at least one running threat in the midfield so I'm hoping I won't need to turn to the hard stuff during the world cup. Just a couple of pints to see me through.

by **Rugby Fan** Mon 3 Jul - 23:51

A new England camp video has dropped. Henry Slade is in a lot of this one.

Tim Cocker thinks the squad points to how Borthwick wants the team to play i.e. what he did with Leicester when he first took over. He also thinks the eventual squad will look similar to Jones' 2019 selection.

by **Rugby Fan** Tue 4 Jul - 8:00

Danny Care popped up on a short BBC Rugby Podcast to talk about his experience at camp.

He is clearly loving it, as he'd all but written off his international chances. Despite a long England career, he was too late for the 2007 World Cup, injured in 2011, finally got a start in 2015 against Uruguay, and then not invited to the training camp in 2019.

He is impressed with the coaching team, even in such a short time. Care's delight at being back with the England set-up, for what will surely be his final chance at a World Cup, may mean he sees everything in a positive light. Of course, that's not a bad attitude to have.

He says the team instructions are clear and simple to follow, and Borthwick has told him to play his natural game.

by Geordie Tue 4 Jul - 8:33

Rugby Fan wrote:Danny Care popped up on a short BBC Rugby Podcast to talk about his experience at camp.

He is clearly loving it, as he'd all but written off his international chances. Despite a long England career, he was too late for the 2007 World Cup, injured in 2011, finally got a start in 2015 against Uruguay, and then not invited to the training camp in 2019.

He is impressed with the coaching team, even in such a short time. Care's delight at being back with the England set-up, for what will surely be his final chance at a World Cup, may mean he sees everything in a positive light. Of course, that's not a bad attitude to have.

He says the team instructions are clear and simple to follow, and Borthwick has told him to play his natural game.

This is a good thing. Especially as there is likely to be some inexperienced players in and around the side. Keep it simple...and let the experienced players like Care control things.

by mountain man Tue 4 Jul - 9:14

I was a bit surprised at Care inclusion seeing as he got another chance with Jones but had a bit of an off day and got yanked.
I rate him and feel England lost out on his best years when he wasn't picked.
With Youngs(!) providing more than enough experience to have Care in as well was not what I expected.

Personally I'd have had Care, Mitchell, JvP. Covers all bases with experience (Care), time with England set up (JvP) and the bolter (Mitchell).

Anyway, it is what it is.

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