Silly Season Transfer Rumours 23/24

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I need rumours.....and I need them now!

They just named the summer team. I'm a die hard Gatland supporter and even I'm scratching my head on some of those calls. I know we have an issue at Lock but Screech? I would have put Nott ahead of him as he has played much better for us.

I'm also a little gob smacked that he's left Ratti and Morris out. Would have thought this summer tour would have made sense to have a look at them. I also don't see any value given Jac Morgan's recent injury and already knowing he probably is our captain for the next world cup why you would risk him for this tour especially with SA in there as well. Reffell would have been plenty good enough and we could have had a look at some back rows. I also have no idea why Gatland persist with picking Watkins. I dont think he's good enough at club level at the moment let alone international level.

Geordie wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:You'd have thought there might be another body coming in as well looking at those numbers.

Well Mark has just said its not the last of the signings on the unoffy, so i guess we shall see. But we could do with a juggernaut of a lock really...

I know they havent announced Beauden Barrett yet, just a matter of time...

You won't need Beauden, you've got Wilkinson for next season.

Ha ha....
On a serious note what the Wilkinson we have signed like. Is he a decent upgrade on what we have? What type of 10?

Geordie wrote:Ha ha....
On a serious note what the Wilkinson we have signed like. Is he a decent upgrade on what we have? What type of 10?

He's diminutive so don't be expecting much in the defensive side of things. Really nice kicking game, good footwork. Seemed a good all rounder and I was annoyed he didn't get more chances at Tigers, he suited our style far more than Charlie Atkinson (who's kicking game is poor and we might have been better off converting to a centre). He had a spell at Sale where he and Quirke combined really nicely but then he fell out of favour. He's young, I'd say a step up on Connon as I think he's got better game management and plays a bit flatter to the line. Needs game time so the move to Falcons could work out well for both parties.

There was one particular game for Sale I remember well where Wilkinson and Quirke paired up at 9 and 10 Vs Quins who fielded Care and Smith. Quirke and Wilkinson dominated in terms of game management and territory. Very impressive and mature performance.

It's being reported Leinster have made an offer for Slimani to replace Big Al.

I'm guessing this probably puts to bed that the IRFU would block Leinster from signing a overseas tighthead.

Welshmushroom wrote:It's being reported Leinster have made an offer for Slimani to replace Big Al.

I'm guessing this probably puts to bed that the IRFU would block Leinster from signing a overseas tighthead.

Rabah? Always been a beast in the scrum, don't seem to remember him playing for France. He seems too old now as well.

Yep he's 34. Has been capped by France.

Not a done deal though as several other French clubs will probably be in for him as well.

57 caps for France but hasn't played for them since the 2019 world cup. He'll be a reliable stop gap in the interim if they've got a young gun on the horizon.

Think the talk is it's only a 1 year deal possibly. I imagine though some French clubs will offer him 2-3 years potentially which might give him more security.

Plus if he ends up retiring outside of France there is the whole benefit package that goes out of the window which would have entitled him to 1-2 years of his final salary.

Guess it will depend on if he potentially wants silverware over money.

Hoggy to Montpellier doing the press rounds today!

Welshmushroom wrote:Think the talk is it's only a 1 year deal possibly.  I imagine though some French clubs will offer him 2-3 years potentially which might give him more security.

Plus if he ends up retiring outside of France there is the whole benefit package that goes out of the window which would have entitled him to 1-2 years of his final salary.  

Guess it will depend on if he potentially wants silverware over money.  

I didn't know there was a benefit package for retiring in France.

With ProD2 the way it is currently and the whole JIFF status thing he could have an adventure in Ireland for a year before landing a contract back in France fairly easily if that's what he wants to do. If anything a good Euro title tilt from Leinster might raise his stock.

I'm not sure if this is purely for Sports People as a benefit. I'm not French so dont fully know how it works but there is a financial impact on rugby players over there.

Welshmushroom wrote:It's being reported Leinster have made an offer for Slimani to replace Big Al.

I'm guessing this probably puts to bed that the IRFU would block Leinster from signing a overseas tighthead.

Leinster are the IRFU's favourite child, they can do pretty much as they wish. I've nothing against it but something close to parity between the provinces would be nice. Ulster for example will have one single NIQ player on their books next season as things stand.

Jack Metcalf confirmed to Falcons.

Well at least we'll have some size in the backs next year with him, Doherty, Stevenson and Hutchison available...

There's a rumour I'm going to be transferred to the dog's basket unless I can knock this snoring thing on the head.

Prop Henry Thomas has joined Scarlets from Castres.

Wallaby fly half, Carter Gordon, has switched to Rugby League

https://www.bbc.com/sport/articles/cd11mr00l3ro

Australia fly-half Carter Gordon has dealt a blow to the Wallabies by announcing he will join rugby league club the Gold Coast Titans next year.

Gordon's decision comes before new coach Joe Schmidt announces his first Wallabies squad since taking over from Eddie Jones, with two home Tests against Wales and another with Georgia in July.

The 23-year-old has been capped eight times and was seen as a long-term prospect, but will switch to the 13-man game after his debt-laden Super Rugby club Melbourne Rebels was shut down.

"I'm excited with the direction that rugby league is taking and the positive feeling around the game," said Gordon, in a statement released by the Titans.

"I feel like I had to take this opportunity now. I'm under no illusions and understand that this will be a massive challenge."

Gordon was part of Jones' squad for their disastrous 2023 World Cup campaign with experienced fly-half Quade Cooper omitted.

He was a replacement in the 40-6 record defeat inflicted by Wales in Lyon as Australia failed to get out of their group for the first time.

Wallabies winger Mark Nawaqanitawase is also moving to rugby league next year after signing with the Sydney Roosters.

Things certainly ain't looking good for Australia at the moment

carpet baboon wrote:Things certainly ain't looking good for Australia at the moment

Reds will beat Wales once, and Aus will beat Wales twice. That would be pretty bad looking for Wales.

Rory Jennings from Newcastle to Cardiff.

Balmain has signed for Saracens. He was under contract with Gloucester but it appears they have let him go early.

Apparently Glaws are looking at Alfie Petch as a replacement. A blow for them if so. Balmain has become a very solid TH at Gloucester. His form hasn't been quite as good since injury though. I'd guess they may look to use Fasogbon more next season.

Balmain is a good signing for Sarries though. Also a necessary one with Riccioni guaranteed to be on Italy duty when fit. They need three THs due to that. Hoskins and Balmain are really good back up.

Jeez that's a terrible deal for Glaws. Lose you starting tighthead and gamble on squad filler and a youngster that's barely played as a replacement.

Real win for Sarries as Riccioni, Hoskins and Balmain is an experienced and reliable tighthead stable of props.

Losing Carter Gordon is a big blow for the Wallabies though there was some doubt he was the form option currently. They've got Loloseio, Donaldson and Tom Lynagh as likely options going into this summer.

formerly known as Sam wrote:Jeez that's a terrible deal for Glaws. Lose you starting tighthead and gamble on squad filler and a youngster that's barely played as a replacement.

That's a tad harsh on Fasogbon. He was part of last year's very impressive U20 front row along with Opoku-Fordjour and Jibulu, and the latter two have impressed in the Prem this season. Only Glaws will know if he's physically ready for the rigours of Prem games week in-week out, but if he is he has certainly got the talent.

And most teams are having to look at replacing departing star players with youngsters and journeymen. The increase in the cap has been offset by the end of the 25% credit for deals agreed before the reduced cap came into force, so teams have had to make some tough choices in negotiations.

Fasogbon is a monster but has a lot to learn

Poorfour wrote:

formerly known as Sam wrote:Jeez that's a terrible deal for Glaws. Lose you starting tighthead and gamble on squad filler and a youngster that's barely played as a replacement.

That's a tad harsh on Fasogbon. He was part of last year's very impressive U20 front row along with Opoku-Fordjour and Jibulu, and the latter two have impressed in the Prem this season. Only Glaws will know if he's physically ready for the rigours of Prem games week in-week out, but if he is he has certainly got the talent.

And most teams are having to look at replacing departing star players with youngsters and journeymen. The increase in the cap has been offset by the end of the 25% credit for deals agreed before the reduced cap came into force, so teams have had to make some tough choices in negotiations.

He's got bags of potential but there's a reason no 20 year old (he turns 20 in August as well, still only 19) tightheads are first team starters in the Prem. It's a brutal position physically and generally you have to grow into the role. As talented as he is it'll be a big ask to put his body through a full season on the back of having played age grade and being injured most of the season just finished.

It'll be a rotation of Ford-Robinsom, Fasogbon, Petch and Gorotsev I'd have thought. Not the strongest set of tightheads for a side that like the set piece.

Glaws do have a number of younger guys who might need to be paid though and with Tomos Williams, Anscombe and Wade all incoming they are spending.

Tigers and Dan McKellar part ways. Somewhat out the blue considering he's just hired his attack coach for next season and pre season is due to start on 1st July. Completely baffling.

Slightly odd that. Any reason given?

carpet baboon wrote:Slightly odd that. Any reason given?

Mutual apparently. Rumours of a significant bust up. Was only Friday we announced a new player with a quote from McKellar welcoming him to the club.

Massive shock and definitely not planned.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Slightly odd that. Any reason given?

Mutual apparently. Rumours of a significant bust up. Was only Friday we announced a new player with a quote from McKellar welcoming him to the club.

Massive shock and definitely not planned.

Rumours that he gave a presentation on how he planned to turn things around and it was so dismal that he got the boot. In the running for the worst PowerPoint ever if there's truth in that.

I don't mind McKellar going. Last season was dire. There were extenuating circumstances but even those were abjectly dealt with from a coaching perspective. Tigers had the second most RWC absentees, but they dealt with it dreadfully. Alan Dickens was meant to be attack coach, then wasn't, so McKellar had no attack coach. Far from ideal, but it was then McKellar who insisted on trying to install a new attack with no attack coach and just ploughed ahead with that plan even though it clearly wasn't working. He got a tough hand but you play the hand you're dealt, he did that about as poorly as he could have done. I wasn't honestly expecting him to turn it around.

It's bizarre for the decision to come this late and after they signed Hewat, a former right hand man to McKellar, as attack coach. Rubbish work from an administrative perspective even if it might be the right decision to get someone else in.

I'll wait to see who the replacement is. Last season was so abysmal that I'm feeling more optimistic now we don't have a head coach than I did when we had McKellar. Which says a lot.

Rumours of Cheika being in the running. I'd take that.

Mike Catt is leaving Ireland after the summer tour but I'm half expecting him to join England. Were he to fancy a head coach role rather than assistant job then he'd be a fantastic coup.

Rumours that Cheika might be announced in the next few days and be in post by the 1st July when preseason starts. If so, it reads a bit like the board might've tapped Cheika up about potential interest, heard that he was interested and made a brutal, but IMO correct, decision to upgrade significantly on McKellar. We'll see what happens in the next few days. I believe the club were previously in contact with Cheika when they chose McKellar though. So it isn't farfetched that they'd have contacted him after such a poor season. Cheika is unattached at present.

Not sure I fancy Chieka coming in, he's a bit to free with his complaints in the media. I'm not sold on him though he's had some good results before. Mike Catt would be a great option but he's arrive late to pre season which might not be ideal but with his former teammate Hewatt (a head coach as recently as a few weeks ago) we could probably make do for a little while.

I also suspect that the ARU approached McKellar with the double offering of the Waratahs job and a shot at replacing Schmidt after his short stint ends. That maybe playing a part in the mutual consent piece.

I thought McKellar came across as a decent bloke and frustrated figure. He desperately wanted Tigers to play his way and we did in flashes. Dickens off field issues and then throwing his toys out the pram and refusing to come back definitely caused issues. I'd have been happy to give McKellar another season to show what he could do before passing judgement. Another season like last and I'd have put him back on the plane and sent him home though.

I too thought McKellar seemed sincere enough and he's clearly a smart coach. He's also relatively new to being a head coach and had basically no experience outside Oz (1 season as an assistant in Japan). I think that inexperience showed.

There's a big difference between Super Rugby and the Prem. Not just the on pitch stuff with style of rugby generally played, the weather, reffing, etc. It's a longer season. There significant international vs club clashes. Expectations in Super Rugby, particularly Australian, are completely different. Funding models and recruitment are completely different.

McKellar largely seemed unable to hit a curve ball. Which is a massive issue for an inexperienced head coach.

I'd bet on McKellar going on to being successful longer term. At which point folk might look back on his season at Tigers as a crash course in how differently rugby works in different countries. I'm not sad that crash course is only lasting one season after what we saw last year.

Regardless of the extenuating circumstances, McKellar took a good squad and coached them to a dire season. It was awful in terms of immediate results but also rubbish in terms of longer term player development. It's not like he was playing the kids, finding stuff out about them for the future. Ilione looked impressive early season, struggled against Chiefs in December in a game where most the 23 were rubbish, then played 4 more minutes of Prem rugby all season. It was conservative selection with nothing to show for it in the short term. Not great.

Maybe he'd have turned it around with Hewat as attack coach and a new head of S&C. Though, as things stand it's looking like he'd have had a worse squad than he manage to epically s**t the bed with last season. As said many times, ploughing ahead with a new game plan that he clearly couldn't get right without an attack coach wasn't an encouraging way to respond to the unideal scenario of not having an attack coach. I don't have a car at the minute because I only bike 10 minutes work. When I need go further afield, I get the train. When visiting family I don't try to ride my bike from Scotland to Yorkshire, pedalling for my life down the A1, because that's the route I'd often take when I had a car. That's what I felt like I was watching McKellar do last season. You've got a different circumstances to what you expected mate, maybe try a different plan.

I wasn't completely in the McKellar out camp. In lieu of a better option I'd lean towards giving him another season. Which is usually where I stand when removing a coach. The question should be far more about who's coming in that who's going. Someone like Cheika is definitely a better head coach than McKellar at this point in time though. Significant international experience and NH experience in Ireland and France. Compared to what we've just seen for a year? Yes and thank you.

I don't disagree with any of that though I would point to the emergence of Carnduff to point out he would give players a chance if he thought they'd get the job done though he did have a fixation with the physical aspect of the young players.

I agree I think his future will be bright which is why I'd have kept him for another season to see if he could have turned things around. Sometimes a rebuild takes time and we certainly needed that given the mass change in personnel from the Borthwick title winning side as the old man brigade Wigglesworth turned to rescue things wasn't going to be sustainable.

I think he did change his game plan at times though he was very unhappy to do so. Problem was that the change was back to the kicking game if the Borthwick era but done not as well and with most oppositions more than ready to play against it.

On the BBC pod, Danny Care said he was impressed with Fergus Burke during their Barbarians stint together. He saw some touches of Beauden Barrett in his play.

Burke has said he's open to the idea of international rugby. It'll be interesting to see if Scotland or England make an early approach, or wait to see how he goes in the Premiership with Saracens.

Rugby Fan wrote:On the BBC pod, Danny Care said he was impressed with Fergus Burke during their Barbarians stint together. He saw some touches of Beauden Barrett in his play.

Burke has said he's open to the idea of international rugby. It'll be interesting to see if Scotland or England make an early approach, or wait to see how he goes in the Premiership with Saracens.

I brought up Burke when it looked like Finn Smith might be injured on top of Ford. Charlie Atkinson was the next option in the squad. I rate Burke higher from what I've seen of both. I think he's a really good player at 10 or 15.

No thanks....lets stick with Ford, Fin and Marcus thanks.

According to Charlie at the telegraph mckeller went due to senior players having no faith in him.

carpet baboon wrote:According to Charlie at the telegraph mckeller went due to senior players having no faith in him.

Yeah I saw that and probably played a factor but timeline doesn't quite stack does it. Player meeting at the end of May. Signs his preferred attack coach, confirmed as part of coaching team for next season and nearly a month after that meeting goes rapidly under a cloud. The unnamed source feels a bit like face saving from the club or someone with an axe to grind maybe.

formerly known as Sam wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:According to Charlie at the telegraph mckeller went due to senior players having no faith in him.

Yeah I saw that and probably played a factor but timeline doesn't quite stack does it. Player meeting at the end of May. Signs his preferred attack coach, confirmed as part of coaching team for next season and nearly a month after that meeting goes rapidly under a cloud. The unnamed source feels a bit like face saving from the club or someone with an axe to grind maybe.

Yeah that did seem odd. Also helps.shift any blame from the boardroom if they can claim they were listening to the players

Murmurs now are that McKellar had been in contact with the ARU during the season. Which does make some sense. He was meant to be Rennie's long term successor, then Rennie got binned for Jones and McKellar was announced by Tigers soon after. Jones joined Oz in January, McKellar confirmed by Tigers in February. It would make sense that he might've seen the Oz RWC campaign go to s**t and had half an eye on what was happening at home.

It's even more bizarre that he apparently turned down the chance to get a short term coach in to help with the attack. Opting to plough on doing it between himself and inexperienced academy coach Matt Smith. All the while, trying to install a new game plan. Which just wasn't working. With plan B being simple but poorly executed.

It's odd.

As said, I'm happier to be seeing McKellar moved on than I was about him getting more time.

king_carlos wrote:Murmurs now are that McKellar had been in contact with the ARU during the season. Which does make some sense. He was meant to be Rennie's long term successor, then Rennie got binned for Jones and McKellar was announced by Tigers soon after. Jones joined Oz in January, McKellar confirmed by Tigers in February. It would make sense that he might've seen the Oz RWC campaign go to s**t and had half an eye on what was happening at home.

It's even more bizarre that he apparently turned down the chance to get a short term coach in to help with the attack. Opting to plough on doing it between himself and inexperienced academy coach Matt Smith. All the while, trying to install a new game plan. Which just wasn't working. With plan B being simple but poorly executed.

It's odd.

As said, I'm happier to be seeing McKellar moved on than I was about him getting more time.

I suspect having allowed Tigers to find him Dickens he wasn't going to go with anyone that wasn't his man hence going all in on Hewatt.

The move back to Australia would make loads of sense for him. The Waratahs are an underperforming basket case and doing well there is a potential stepping stone for the top job with the Wallabies.

king_carlos wrote:

Rugby Fan wrote:On the BBC pod, Danny Care said he was impressed with Fergus Burke during their Barbarians stint together. He saw some touches of Beauden Barrett in his play.

Burke has said he's open to the idea of international rugby. It'll be interesting to see if Scotland or England make an early approach, or wait to see how he goes in the Premiership with Saracens.

I brought up Burke when it looked like Finn Smith might be injured on top of Ford. Charlie Atkinson was the next option in the squad. I rate Burke higher from what I've seen of both. I think he's a really good player at 10 or 15.

Burke does look like some incredible business from Sarries. Any call up might be a bit premature, he spent about a year out before returning to spur the Crusaders into life a month or so back. A full pre season will probably be good for him but if he starts the season well then Gregor and Steve will no doubt both be in touch.

Sam Matavesi leaving Saints to pursue a career "overseas" with immediate effect. Doesn't say where overseas is, but, if he is leaving now, Japan possibly.

Sam is a serving member of the Royal Navy, don't see how that is going to work if he is overseas.

Slimani to Leinster now confirmed. Scot Alex Craig re-signs with Scarlets. Ruan Dreyer rumoured to be joining Sharks (SA), after a previous link to Scarlets - shame as Ruan would have been a great acquisition.

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:Sam Matavesi leaving Saints to pursue a career "overseas" with immediate effect. Doesn't say where overseas is, but, if he is leaving now, Japan possibly.

Sam is a serving member of the Royal Navy, don't see how that is going to work if he is overseas.

I believe he is going to Lyon in the Top 14.

Dan Palmer the Tigers scrum coach has also now left though the other assistant coaches are confirmed as are at work ahead of pre season starting on Monday.

Callum Hunter-Hill has left Saracens. Looked a good squad player so assume he has something else lined up.

Michael Cheika confirmed as the new Tigers head coach.

On his appointment, Cheika said: “Honestly, I wasn’t looking at the Premiership and didn’t have the desire to coach in it until Leicester Tigers came to me. But, the opportunity to coach at Tigers and lead this group of players turned my head.”

Tigers chief executive Andrea Pinchen said Leicester feel Cheika is the "right person to take this team, this club, back to where we know we should be".

“I also accept that the past week is not what fans expected, and nor did we, but the decisions we have made are for the long-term benefit of Leicester Tigers and after lengthy, detailed and very honest conversations with Michael in recent days, we are on the same page about what is now necessary to see this club back on top," Pinchen said.