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England U20s Six Nations

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TAFKA The Oracle
RiscaGame
Yoda
doctor_grey
mikey_dragon
king_carlos
mountain man
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No 7&1/2
Geordie
lostinwales
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Post by Cumbrian Wed 31 Jan 2024, 9:52 pm

First topic message reminder :

Squad has been named for the Italy game.  


15 Ben Redshaw (Newcastle Falcons)
14 Toby Cousins (Northampton Saints) *
13 Ben Waghorn (Harlequins) *
12 Sean Kerr (Harlequins)
11 Alex Wills (Sale Sharks) *

10 Rory Taylor (Gloucester Rugby)
9 Archie McParland (Northampton Saints)

1 Asher Opoku-Fordjour (Sale Sharks) *
2 Craig Wright (Northampton Saints) *
3 Billy Sela (Bath Rugby)
4 Olamide Sodeke (Saracens)
5 Junior Kpoku (Racing 92)
6 Finn Carnduff (c) (Leicester Tigers) *
7 Henry Pollock (Northampton Saints)
8 Zach Carr (Harlequins) *


Replacements

16 Jacob Oliver (Newcastle Falcons)
17 Scott Kirk (Bath Rugby)
18 James Halliwell (Bristol Bears) *
19 Joe Bailey (Exeter Chiefs) *
20 Nathan Michelow (Saracens) *
21 Ben Douglas (Newcastle Falcons)
22 Josh Bellamy (Harlequins)
23 Ollie Spencer (Newcastle)

Some good players, the two starting props are beasts for this level, both exceptional in the loose.  There are quite a few other recognisable names in there (and ones I'm not too familiar with).  To be honest we could do with another strong generation.  The last couple of tournaments the performances have been pretty underwhelming.
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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 09 Feb 2024, 9:26 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:
RiscaGame wrote:Has Pollock taken a load of ultimate orange?

Do you think he knew he was on the big screen?
Methinks the lad might be a wee bit wired at times.  

Not sure what was going on, but he was very good tonight and last week. If he's annoying the opposition and fans, he is clearly doing a lot right...

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Post by TAFKA The Oracle Fri 09 Feb 2024, 9:32 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:England were sloppy tonight, Wales too obviously. If England played to their potential and the ref wasn't favourable to Wales that could have been 100 points put on them. Dick Whiffin and Howley not good enough but it's jobs for the boyo's again.

Dick Whiffin? Please tell me that’s a joke name?!

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 09 Feb 2024, 9:37 pm

TAFKA The Oracle wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:England were sloppy tonight, Wales too obviously. If England played to their potential and the ref wasn't favourable to Wales that could have been 100 points put on them. Dick Whiffin and Howley not good enough but it's jobs for the boyo's again.

Dick Whiffin? Please tell me that’s a joke name?!

I think it's his nickname.

https://www.wru.wales/staff/richard-whiffin/

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 09 Feb 2024, 9:37 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:England were sloppy tonight, Wales too obviously. If England played to their potential and the ref wasn't favourable to Wales that could have been 100 points put on them. Dick Whiffin and Howley not good enough but it's jobs for the boyo's again.
Would also help if they didn't lose the ball going over the line a few times. Better decision making on the Wales line would have helped too.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 09 Feb 2024, 9:48 pm

In my opinion the most important thing at this level is the learning curve and I'm not sure that either team can be satisfied by it after that. Wales were pummelled for 60+ minutes and didn't really offer a lot. England had a very dominant forward display but didn't really do a lot with it.

What do Sela and AOF learn from the the opposition melting in front of them?

I think there was a tongue in cheek comment about the England full back, but I think it is closer to the mark, he looked a cut above (the other backs) and I'll be amazed if he doesn't have Welsh heritage and ends up opting for Wales at some point
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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 09 Feb 2024, 10:39 pm

I’m not sure the ins and outs, but I think Jones and the replacement back-row James are Welsh. Like Hathaway and Jenkins I hope they come back, we need the help…

Usually you see a lot of Welsh around the West Country and Liverpool.

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Post by RiscaGame Sat 10 Feb 2024, 7:03 am

TBH, Wales did well to hang in there. I nearly didn't watch it, as I expected a mauling and to be overpowered. I didn't expect the scrum to be quite as horrendous, but it was. Not sure how much the one lad is playing for RGC, but it is worrying for the whole Welsh front row there.

Seeing as Dragons are constantly mentioning budgets and blooding youngsters, we really need to look at the 15 (Anderson) ASAP.

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Post by lostinwales Sat 10 Feb 2024, 9:54 am

mikey_dragon wrote:I’m not sure the ins and outs, but I think Jones and the replacement back-row James are Welsh. Like Hathaway and Jenkins I hope they come back, we need the help…

Usually you see a lot of Welsh around the West Country and Liverpool.

Commentary said James played U18 for Wales. I tried searching for Jones. He ws brought up outside Stroud - I would bet parents are Welsh but has lived most if not all his life in England.

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Post by lostinwales Sat 10 Feb 2024, 9:59 am

Cumbrian wrote:I think it is good that Wales reminded England that they are still there, they need to guard against complacency.  

Pollock has the markings of an exceptional player, but I hate to say it... Is he big enough?  I only say it because I remember Alex Gray.  He looked amazing at this level, but didn't have the physicality to make it at senior level.  Pollock is only young though, so should naturally put on timber.

Age 19. With the usual provisos about reported stats he's currently listed (using mixed units!) as 6' 2'' and 100kg. Worth pointing out that Earl and Simmonds are both 6' 0'' and around 107-108 kg. He should be able to get big enough

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 10 Feb 2024, 10:50 am

lostinwales wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I’m not sure the ins and outs, but I think Jones and the replacement back-row James are Welsh. Like Hathaway and Jenkins I hope they come back, we need the help…

Usually you see a lot of Welsh around the West Country and Liverpool.

Commentary said James played U18 for Wales. I tried searching for Jones. He ws brought up outside Stroud - I would bet parents are Welsh but has lived most if not all his life in England.

Yeah possibly. It could be another Lloyd Evans type thing, both are at Gloucester.

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Post by mikey_dragon Sat 10 Feb 2024, 10:51 am

lostinwales wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:I think it is good that Wales reminded England that they are still there, they need to guard against complacency.  

Pollock has the markings of an exceptional player, but I hate to say it... Is he big enough?  I only say it because I remember Alex Gray.  He looked amazing at this level, but didn't have the physicality to make it at senior level.  Pollock is only young though, so should naturally put on timber.

Age 19. With the usual provisos about reported stats he's currently listed (using mixed units!) as 6' 2'' and 100kg. Worth pointing out that Earl and Simmonds are both 6' 0'' and around 107-108 kg. He should be able to get big enough

Pollock is big enough for an open-side if you want that fetcher type, but he is good at everything else as well.

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Post by Flintoff05 Tue 13 Feb 2024, 1:25 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:There’s some good players up front for England. Wales’ scrum is embarrassingly bad though.

Yup it is a strong pack this year. Props Opoku & Sela, locks Kpoku & Sodeke plus flankers Carnduff & Pollock could all have good careers. Backs not so impressive although McParland and Redshaw are eligible again next year. Plus Ioan Jones was solid at full back.

mikey_dragon wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I’m not sure the ins and outs, but I think Jones and the replacement back-row James are Welsh. Like Hathaway and Jenkins I hope they come back, we need the help…

Usually you see a lot of Welsh around the West Country and Liverpool.

Commentary said James played U18 for Wales. I tried searching for Jones. He ws brought up outside Stroud - I would bet parents are Welsh but has lived most if not all his life in England.

Yeah possibly. It could be another Lloyd Evans type thing, both are at Gloucester.

Exactly the same. I believe both Jones & Evans are from Gloucestershire with an English mother and Welsh father.

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Post by lostinwales Tue 13 Feb 2024, 1:29 pm

Flintoff05 wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:There’s some good players up front for England. Wales’ scrum is embarrassingly bad though.

Yup it is a strong pack this year. Props Opoku & Sela, locks Kpoku & Sodeke plus flankers Carnduff & Pollock could all have good careers. Backs not so impressive although McParland and Redshaw are eligible again next year. Plus Ioan Jones was solid at full back.

mikey_dragon wrote:
lostinwales wrote:
mikey_dragon wrote:I’m not sure the ins and outs, but I think Jones and the replacement back-row James are Welsh. Like Hathaway and Jenkins I hope they come back, we need the help…

Usually you see a lot of Welsh around the West Country and Liverpool.

Commentary said James played U18 for Wales. I tried searching for Jones. He ws brought up outside Stroud - I would bet parents are Welsh but has lived most if not all his life in England.

Yeah possibly. It could be another Lloyd Evans type thing, both are at Gloucester.

Exactly the same. I believe both Jones & Evans are from Gloucestershire with an English mother and Welsh father.

Thanks for the info. Worth pointing out that the two giants Kpoku and Sodeke are both only 18, so could (in theory, depending on birthdays) be in the U20's for another couple of years. If Kpoku fulfills his promise I wouldn't be surprised to see him wearing blue instead of white.

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Post by Poorfour Tue 13 Feb 2024, 2:38 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Free kick?  They just destroyed the Welsh pack,  odd take.

Tbf. Going backwards isn't against the law.

I didn't see the game, but that's spot on. Wayne Barnes once put it (at a Meet the Ref evening) that a prop under pressure has a couple of options: they can pop up, they can go down or they can go backwards. Two of those are likely to result in a penalty, but "they've always go the option to go backwards".
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Post by mountain man Tue 13 Feb 2024, 2:40 pm

True however quite often see refs giving a penalty because a scrum is retreating and seemingly no other reason.

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Post by Poorfour Tue 13 Feb 2024, 2:46 pm

mountain man wrote:True however quite often see refs giving a penalty because a scrum is retreating and seemingly no other reason.

I think there's often some technical offence that triggers it - it's hard to resist being shunted backwards without at some point popping up, going to a knee, dropping your bind or ending up with an illegal body angle. Watching when refs put their arm out, it's usually at the point where the scrum has moved a couple of yards and starts to get disorganised.

That said, the trend has also been towards not blowing up for a collapsed scrum as long as it's safe and the ball is available.
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Post by lostinwales Wed 21 Feb 2024, 2:15 pm

England U20 squad vs Scotland (copied shamelessly from tw@tter)

1) Opoku-Fordjour 🦈
2) Wright 😇
3) Sela 🛁
4) Bailey ❌
5) Carnduff 🐯 (C)
6) Michelow 💫
7) Pollock 😇
8) Carr 🃏
9) McParland 😇
10) Bellamy 🃏
11) Wills 🦈
12) Kerr 🃏
13) Redshaw 🦅
14) Cousins 😇
15) Jones 🍒

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Post by mountain man Wed 21 Feb 2024, 2:18 pm

No Sodeke? He was really good against Wales despite being carded.

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Post by king_carlos Wed 21 Feb 2024, 2:48 pm

The U20 Six Nations has generally seen some rotation from England in recent years. Then they try to settle on a strongest team for the JRWC.

Sodeke, Kpoku, Michelow Taylor and Spencer are all rated players that were starting last week. It's looks a bit like shuffling through options to me.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 21 Feb 2024, 2:49 pm

mountain man wrote:No Sodeke? He was really good against Wales despite being carded.

No Kpoku either - all new boiler room with Carnduff moving over from 6

Subs/

16 Jacob Oliver (Newcastle Falcons)

17 Scott Kirk (Bath Rugby)

18 Afolabi Fasogbon (Gloucester Rugby)

19 Harry Browne (Harlequins)

20 Kane James (Exeter Chiefs)

21 Ben Douglas (Newcastle Falcons)

22 Rory Taylor (Gloucester Rugby)

23 Ben Waghorn (Harlequins)


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Post by king_carlos Wed 21 Feb 2024, 3:12 pm

Fasogbon is a big ol' boy to be throwing off the bench at U20s.

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Post by lostinwales Wed 21 Feb 2024, 3:57 pm

king_carlos wrote:Fasogbon is a big ol' boy to be throwing off the bench at U20s.

The U20's pack with Kpoku/Sodeke and Fasogbon would be massive

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Post by mountain man Wed 21 Feb 2024, 4:18 pm

Problem with U20s though in first two matches rather similar to senior side, or certainly past senior sides who had massive pack but when backs get ball they've looked a bit lost.
The U20s totally dominated upfront but backs so far not matching them.

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Post by Geordie Fri 23 Feb 2024, 7:33 pm

Watching the U20 England game....desr lord this female commentator is painful...

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 23 Feb 2024, 7:39 pm

Female? It's the Scottish bloke who appears to only have one eye and be talking rubbish that's doing my head in.

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Post by Geordie Fri 23 Feb 2024, 7:43 pm

Ah I'm not talking about bias Sam...just the commentator in general..the terminology and description...God its awful.

"The extraction from the ruck there"

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Post by mountain man Fri 23 Feb 2024, 7:45 pm

Think it's Rory Lawson (the bloke) not sure on woman but no problem for me.
Shame weather so filthy

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Post by Geordie Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:02 pm

Good referring he couldn't avoid that tackle.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:02 pm

Yeah the female commentator has been fine for me.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:03 pm

Geordie wrote:Good referring he couldn't avoid that tackle.

I think he jumped into the contact. He doesn't need to jump to regather that, he's jumped because he's trying to brace as he regathers.

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Post by Yoda Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:03 pm

If they learn some skills to go with their size they could be quite tasty. England have thrown away so many passes it amazes me that things like that are not autonomous with professional athletes.

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Post by Yoda Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:04 pm

formerly known as Sam wrote:
Geordie wrote:Good referring he couldn't avoid that tackle.

I think he jumped into the contact. He doesn't need to jump to regather that, he's jumped because he's trying to brace as he regathers.

Jumping into a tackle used to be a penalty?

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Post by Yoda Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:06 pm

Ref looks good, I wish we could have him instead of the sh refs.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:19 pm

Ref has been pretty relaxed, he could have definitely got his card out but has tried to let the game settle instead. It's been a feisty game and he hasn't quite kept a lid on it. He's doing a decent job, appears to be consistent which is the most important thing.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:28 pm

Not sure how that isn't another yellow card, young Scots lad just slapped it into touch...
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Post by Yoda Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:32 pm

Not sure the eng 9 released after the tackle there.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:34 pm

Ref has been pretty lenient on the old slap downs for Scotland.

Good strong finish by Carnduff. He's some player the young Tiger. Very highly rated at Tigers. Came off the bench to play against Quins in the Prem last month even though Tigers had former Aussie Sam Carter on the bench as well, Carnduff got the nod and looked right at home. Whether he'll settle at lock or 6 we'll see. If he were to stay at 6 he could very much be the Liebenburg successor, they've got similar attributes.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:35 pm

English lads just keep going on their own and getting isolated, the support need to work harder to support, but the carrier needs to be aware of what is going on.
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Post by Yoda Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:38 pm

Decent Scottish try. Scottish 7 making Pollock look like a show pony, he needs to do some ruck clearing. We are starting to lose the breakdown.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:39 pm

I'd opt for a scrum here...
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Post by Cumbrian Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:39 pm

...And I would have been wrong.
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Post by Geordie Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:40 pm

Yeah they have work to do obviously individually...and there's lots of mistakes being made...bit some huge lads in this England side...hope a few of them make the step up...

The England hooker looks good.
The scrum half ...
And finally a few big wingers Coming through...

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Post by mountain man Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:41 pm

Don't know why England didn't go for scrum there as so dominant. Ok got try from lineout but that's never as certain to retain possession. Anyway minor gripe.

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Post by Geordie Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:41 pm

Yoda wrote:Decent Scottish try. Scottish 7 making Pollock look like a show pony, he needs to do some ruck clearing. We are starting to lose the breakdown.

He looks outstanding doesn't he. One to watch for the next few years in a senior shirt.

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:43 pm

Scotland absolutely butchered that...
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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:47 pm

Geordie wrote:
Yoda wrote:Decent Scottish try. Scottish 7 making Pollock look like a show pony, he needs to do some ruck clearing. We are starting to lose the breakdown.

He looks outstanding doesn't he. One to watch for the next few years in a senior shirt.

Scottish 7 looks a real menace, very difficult to shift once he latches on at the breakdown.

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Post by mountain man Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:47 pm

By the way think female commentator is Clare Thomas if anyone interested.
I think she's ok. I also don't mind Sarah Orchard who is often on rugby union daily podcasts.

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Post by Geordie Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:47 pm

Aww that doesn't look good for the lad

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:52 pm

How far did they go back for that?!
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Post by Heaf Fri 23 Feb 2024, 8:54 pm

Drat - only just seen this is on BBC iPlayer

Heaf

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Join date : 2011-07-30
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England U20s Six Nations - Page 2 Empty Re: England U20s Six Nations

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