England vs Wales

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England vs Wales

Date: Saturday 10th February 2024
Twickenham, London
Kick-off: 4:45pm
Referee: James Doleman (New Zealand)

TV Coverage: Live on ITV and S4C (UK) and RTÉ (ROI)

Teams

England

15-Steward, 14-Freeman, 13-Slade, 12-Dingwall, 11-Daly, 10-Ford, 9-Mitchell; 1-Stuart, 2-Marler, 3-George (capt), 4-Itoje, 5-Chessum, 6-Roots, 7-Underhill, 8-Earl
Replacements: 16-Dan, 17-Genge, 18-Cole, 19-Coles, 20-Cunningham-South, 21-Care, 22-Smith, 23-Feyi-Waboso

Wales

Winnett; Dyer, North, Tompkins, Adams; Lloyd, Williams; G Thomas, Dee, Assiratti, Jenkins (capt), Beard, Mann, Reffell, Wainwright.

Replacements: Elias, Domachowski, Griffin, Rowlands, Basham, Hardy, Evans, Grady.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Poorfour wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:
Yeah we didn't much with it all in the end but good to see. I do take those ruck stats with a pinch of salt as the measure is from when the ball is available to being picked up isn't it? You then tend to have a lower time for teams playing narrower, or indeed not making much of a dent. Useful of course but as with others like missed tackles does need the context.

I don't think so; that would be a pretty pointless thing to measure (unless you want refs to apply the use it rule more firmly). I bedlieve it's from tackle completion to the ball being played

Bar some different words what is the real difference there? Ball is available the second you place it immediately...

Semantics perhaps? But is still easy to throw a pass 1 yard and for it to be placed and thrown 1 yard than it is to spin it out past 3 defenders and for the SH to get there etc? A very low time suggests you're not moving the ball or perhaps stretching the defence quite as much?

context is everything with stats....

You left out the time when a scrum half gets to the breakdown then flaps his/her arms like an epileptic flightless bird waiting for perfectly clean ball (which frequently ends up with the referee giving the ball to the defending team because the 9 wouldn't go and dig it out, ffs.)...

Ah the old trying to kid referee into giving a penalty because opposition are holding ball into ruck. Care particularly adept at that move.
None though are at Biggar level of arm flappage.

mountain man wrote:Ah the old trying to kid referee into giving a penalty because opposition are holding ball into ruck. Care particularly adept at that move.
None though are at Biggar level of arm flappage.

I'm still convinced that Care was dropped after that set of AIs because of his attempt to buy a pen against NZ with these attempts,/falling over people not in the way etc. If he'd just looked to play and make a chance we may have been celebrating another win (think that was the Lawes 'offside' Underhill try game?

No 7&1/2 wrote:

mountain man wrote:Ah the old trying to kid referee into giving a penalty because opposition are holding ball into ruck. Care particularly adept at that move.
None though are at Biggar level of arm flappage.

I'm still convinced that Care was dropped after that set of AIs because of his attempt to buy a pen against NZ with these attempts,/falling over people not in the way etc. If he'd just looked to play and make a chance we may have been celebrating another win (think that was the Lawes 'offside' Underhill try game?

Don't remember if that was that game, but I do remember Care against NZ looking like an angry goose taking methamphetamines. And the not taking charge at the breakdown, I agree, may have cost him with England.

By the way, the older Care gets, to me he is really starting to look more and more like Ringo Starr. Not for nothing.

Wales' bench shows the weakness of their squad overall (Rowlands and maybe Domachowski aside). Elias deserves dropping as much as Gareth Davies has been, but is in a position where he has to be involved due to the selection of Evan Lloyd. Not sure why somebody like Sam Parry isn't in the squad. I still don't feel like Basham should be there and would be concerned if Cai Evans has to come on. Interested to see what Griffin can offer, but I don't know enough about him to suggest he deserves to be in an international 23.

RiscaGame wrote:Wales' bench shows the weakness of their squad overall (Rowlands and maybe Domachowski aside). Elias deserves dropping as much as Gareth Davies has been, but is in a position where he has to be involved due to the selection of Evan Lloyd. Not sure why somebody like Sam Parry isn't in the squad. I still don't feel like Basham should be there and would be concerned if Cai Evans has to come on. Interested to see what Griffin can offer, but I don't know enough about him to suggest he deserves to be in an international 23.

I agree, Risca. The hooker issue is interested. Developing for the future is really important. But if we’re in a bit of trouble there due to form and injuries I would prefer to draft in an older head. Parry at the O’s, as you say. Bradley Roberts at Dragons, even Liam Belcher who is playing well this season. All are playing regularly and are vastly more experienced (and therefore perhaps less risky) than a young lad with only 6 appearances at club level. He’s also listed as an 8 on the WRU site so looks like he’s been converted fairly recently. It’s a big ask. And if he’s only there to experience the ‘environment’ then he’s taking up a valuable space.

ITV coverage. Oh. joy...

Swings and roundabouts. No Jiffy.

lostinwales wrote:ITV coverage. Oh. joy...

S4C is the better option...

Always said Steward reminded me of Blanco.

Knew thatd happen when I posted those attacking ruck stats. 2nd min again so we ll go through another 90 tackles not losing one.

Get to 22 and kick away. Why. Overlap.

Itoje is just so good.

Balls.

It's a red

Or a yellow

Or nothing

Or a pen.

A yellow. Not sure that was deserved

Thought it was just a penalty tbh.

Just a run of the mill rugby incident, happening in a split second, blown out of all proportion by the laws of the game.

Yeah think id say probably just a pen.

The Wales curse

After a good first 5 alot of mistakes from England now.

Great kick for the corner.

Brilliant from Wales. Who goes for that Itoje?

Down to 13 now, this is starting to look like the last time we came to Twickenham…

Itoje was on that ball would be hard to get that down...can understand it given tho.

How much did Wales pay the ref?

Itoje is immense so far.

Is the ref Welsh? Seriously.

That Ben Earl he's rubbish....

mountain man wrote:That Ben Earl he's rubbish....

Who ever said that.

Awful by Ford.

Really strong by Earl, but such powderpuff D by Wales.

That was like Dallaglio's try against Wales in 2000.

Anyone know what 'approach' actually means?

Discipline is atrocious. When will England learn that everyone else hates us so we have to be squeaky clean?

I'm getting Steve Walsh vibes here. Ref has been awful so far. Been knobbled by gats.

Heaf wrote:Anyone know what 'approach' actually means?

Any movement that starts your kicking. A step back can count. And so can Ford's step to the side. He should have asked the ref.

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Heaf wrote:Anyone know what 'approach' actually means?

Any movement that starts your kicking. A step back can count. And so can Ford's step to the side. He should have asked the ref.

So not the dictionary definition then? So how did Biggar get away without being charged down every time he did his thing?

Trying to eat time there seemed to mess with the timing and concentration.

Heaf wrote:

No 7&1/2 wrote:

Heaf wrote:Anyone know what 'approach' actually means?

Any movement that starts your kicking. A step back can count. And so can Ford's step to the side. He should have asked the ref.

So not the dictionary definition then?   So how did Biggar get away without being charged down every time he did his thing?

His twitches?just classed at him setting himself. It was the right decision by the ref.

Great defence. Great kick by Daly.

On the bright side we were down to 13 and we scored the try

That was some tackle by Underhill, Thomas will have sore ribs tomorrow

Sigh.

Hmmm.

Very nice try.

Yoda wrote:I'm getting Steve Walsh vibes here. Ref has been awful so far. Been knobbled by gats.

You literally say it every time England play Wales. It’s just not possible.