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Premiership Rugby Round 16 in the Land of Hope and Glory

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 26 Apr 2024, 11:57 am

Here we go:
  
MatchEDTBSTWhere
Bath Rugby v Saracens2:45 PM7:45pmRecreation Ground, Bath
Leicester Tigers v Bristol10:00 AM3:00pmMattioli Woods Welford Road Stadium, Leicester
Harlequins v Saints 10:05 AM3:05pmTwickenham HQ, London
Gloucester v Exeter Chiefs 10:00 AM3:00pmKingsholm, Gloucester
Newcastle Falcons v Sale Sharks  10:00AM3:00pmKingston Park, Newcastle

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 26 Apr 2024, 12:02 pm

Playoff and/or Europe implications in every match.  The way it is supposed to be.


Last edited by doctor_grey on Fri 26 Apr 2024, 12:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by doctor_grey Fri 26 Apr 2024, 12:04 pm

HARLEQUINS vs NORTHAMPTON SAINTS
Gallagher Premiership, Round 16
Saturday 27 April, 2024
Kick-off: 3.05pm


Northampton Saints Harlequins
George Furbank15Tyrone Green
James Ramm14Louis Lynagh
Tommy Freeman13Luke Northmore
Tom Litchfield 12Andre Esterhuizen
Ollie Sleightholme11Cadan Murley
Fin Smith10Marcus Smith
Alex Mitchell9Danny Care
   
Emmanuel Iyogun1Fin Baxter
Sam Matavesi2Jack Walker
Trevor Davison3Will Collier
Temo Mayanavanua4Irne Herbst
Tom Lockett5Stephan Lewies (C)
Courtney Lawes6Chandler Cunningham-South
Lewis Ludlam (c)7Will Evans
Sam Graham8Alex Dombrandt
   
Replacements:  
Robbie Smith16Sam Riley
Tarek Haffar17Joe Marler
Elliot Millar Mills18Simon Kerrod
Chunya Munga19George Hammond
Angus Scott-Young20Tom Lawday
Juarno Augustus21Will Porter
Tom James22Jarrod Evans
Fraser Dingwall23Oscar Beard

Saints not available for selection:  Callum Braley, George Hendy, Paul Hill, Rory Hutchinson, Burger Odendaal and Tom Pearson.
Referee: Karl Dickson
Assistant referees: Joe James and Jonathan Healy
No. 4: Jonathan Cook
TMO: Andrew Jackson

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Post by formerly known as Sam Fri 26 Apr 2024, 12:32 pm

STARTING XV

15 Freddie Steward [85]
14 Mike Brown [25]
13 Matt Scott [77]
12 Dan Kelly [78]
11 Ollie Hassell-Collins [19]
10 Handré Pollard [30]
9 Jack van Poortvliet [70]
1 James Cronin [32]
2 Julián Montoya [57]
3 Dan Cole [320]
4 George Martin [63]
5 Ollie Chessum [55]
6 Hanro Liebenberg [104]
7 Tommy Reffell [111]
8 Jasper Wiese [76]

REPLACEMENTS

16 Charlie Clare [92]
17 Francois van Wyk [51]
18 Will Hurd [40]
19 Harry Wells [196]
20 Olly Cracknell [40]
21 Tom Whiteley [27]
22 Jamie Shillcock [25]
23 Phil Cokanasiga [17]

Bar Brown on the wing the starting side looks good. The bench looks mightily weak though. Still quite a few players out though having Martin and Liebenburg back is a big help.

Bristol Bears team to face Leicester Tigers at Mattioli Woods Welford Road on Saturday (3pm KO):

15. Max Malins (31 apps), 14. Siva Naulago (32 apps), 13. Benhard Janse van Rensburg (22 apps), 12. James Williams (39 apps), 11. Gabriel Ibitoye (38 apps), 10. AJ MacGinty (35 apps), 9. Harry Randall (123 apps); 1. Ellis Genge (41 apps), 2. Gabriel Oghre (14 apps), 3. Kyle Sinckler (58 apps), 4. James Dun (31 apps), 5. Joe Batley (60 apps), 6. Steven Luatua (127 apps), 7. Fitz Harding (c) (69 apps), 8. Magnus Bradbury (42 apps).

System players: 16. Harry Thacker (112 apps), 17. Jake Woolmore (147 apps), 18. Max Lahiff (84 apps), 19. Josh Caulfield (21 apps), 20. Jake Heenan (108 apps), 21. Kieran Marmion (21 apps), 22. Virimi Vakatawa (16 apps), 23. Rich Lane (33 apps).

Bristol look pretty loaded for this one.

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Fri 26 Apr 2024, 4:28 pm

That is a Saints backline I have not seen before, some interesting match ups. Tom Litchfield vs Andre Esterhuizen could be a make or break contest, I wonder if Esterhuizen remembers Furbank flattening him a couple of times in the reverse fixture. Litchfield is a lot bigger than Furbank (about 2.5 stone) but also a lot less experienced, especially at 12. Powerful combo though with Freeman outside of him and very pacy for big centres.

CCS vs Lawes will be interesting, Lawes having just been inducted to the RPA Hall of Fame is still good enough to teach the young whippersnapper a lesson or two.

Really looking forward to the game.
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Post by Poorfour Fri 26 Apr 2024, 4:37 pm

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:That is a Saints backline I have not seen before, some interesting match ups. Tom Litchfield vs Andre Esterhuizen could be a make or break contest, I wonder if Esterhuizen remembers Furbank flattening him a couple of times in the reverse fixture. Litchfield is a lot bigger than Furbank (about 2.5 stone) but also a lot less experienced, especially at 12. Powerful combo though with Freeman outside of him and very pacy for big centres.

CCS vs Lawes will be interesting, Lawes having just been inducted to the RPA Hall of Fame is still good enough to teach the young whippersnapper a lesson or two.

Really looking forward to the game.

I think Saints probably have the edge in the back row, especially with subs, but Quins will probably have an advantage in the scrums. The weather forecast is for intermittent showers, so if the ball is slippery Quins may benefit.

Two exceptional backlines and I think it will come down to which clicks better on the day, and whether Quins can tighten up their defence enough to contain Saints.
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Post by doctor_grey Fri 26 Apr 2024, 5:46 pm

Poorfour wrote:
WELL-PAST-IT wrote:That is a Saints backline I have not seen before, some interesting match ups. Tom Litchfield vs Andre Esterhuizen could be a make or break contest, I wonder if Esterhuizen remembers Furbank flattening him a couple of times in the reverse fixture. Litchfield is a lot bigger than Furbank (about 2.5 stone) but also a lot less experienced, especially at 12. Powerful combo though with Freeman outside of him and very pacy for big centres.

CCS vs Lawes will be interesting, Lawes having just been inducted to the RPA Hall of Fame is still good enough to teach the young whippersnapper a lesson or two.

Really looking forward to the game.

I think Saints probably have the edge in the back row, especially with subs, but Quins will probably have an advantage in the scrums. The weather forecast is for intermittent showers, so if the ball is slippery Quins may benefit.

Two exceptional backlines and I think it will come down to which clicks better on the day, and whether Quins can tighten up their defence enough to contain Saints.
Final score will be 50-49.

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Post by Poorfour Fri 26 Apr 2024, 6:31 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
Final score will be 50-49.

Ah, but to whom? That's the real question!
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Post by doctor_grey Fri 26 Apr 2024, 8:12 pm

Poorfour wrote:
doctor_grey wrote:
Final score will be 50-49.

Ah, but to whom? That's the real question!
Exactly

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 26 Apr 2024, 8:51 pm

I know you get 'one for the purists', but that was a dire half. I quite often dislike watching Saracens play because they drag it down to a street fight and it just isn't good viewing as a neutral. Here's to a better second half...
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Post by Cumbrian Fri 26 Apr 2024, 8:59 pm

So far...Nope!
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Post by doctor_grey Fri 26 Apr 2024, 9:20 pm

In my clinical opinion, this game is vomitus. You know the game is not exactly hitting on all cylinders when the commentators are doing everything short of boring. Counting the number of kicks must have required a Cray Super Computer (51 reported in the first half).

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Post by Cumbrian Fri 26 Apr 2024, 9:46 pm

Second half was a bit better, but what was Redpath thinking when he carried that ball over? Could be a really crucial moment in Bath's season...
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Post by doctor_grey Sat 27 Apr 2024, 4:50 am

Cumbrian wrote:Second half was a bit better, but what was Redpath thinking when he carried that ball over? Could be a really crucial moment in Bath's season...
I don't think he knew how far away the defender was.  That said, it looked to me like he could have run the ball a few yards out of the in-goal but panicked instead.  

I agree this could be a real significant moment for Bath.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 27 Apr 2024, 2:49 pm

doctor_grey wrote:
Cumbrian wrote:Second half was a bit better, but what was Redpath thinking when he carried that ball over? Could be a really crucial moment in Bath's season...
I don't think he knew how far away the defender was.  That said, it looked to me like he could have run the ball a few yards out of the in-goal but panicked instead.  

I agree this could be a real significant moment for Bath.

It looked like it was dying on Redpath on the replay. I think we was concerned about how quickly it would go over the line. He needed to pick and kick a lot quicker but maybe didn't get the call from his teammates. Poor really as picking and turning to his right made kicking off his preferred foot harder, if he's turned to the left the kick comes far more naturally.

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Apr 2024, 3:29 pm

hmmm - Saints maybe a bit lucky with that last pass

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Post by Geordie Sat 27 Apr 2024, 3:33 pm

For England would it be a case of Sleightholme or Murley as they're similar or would you have them both in the squad if they're at top form?

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Post by Geordie Sat 27 Apr 2024, 3:53 pm

Rubbish decision there...nothing wrong with that try....

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Apr 2024, 3:56 pm

Makes up for the forward pass maybe?

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Post by Geordie Sat 27 Apr 2024, 4:35 pm

Ah another rubbish decision...Dicksons awful....

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Post by Geordie Sat 27 Apr 2024, 4:36 pm

Deserved try for Saints...but quins should be down to 14

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Apr 2024, 4:38 pm

Yep - and also missed Saints pulling back Lynagh at the other end before that when he was going for the loose ball .... Typical Dickson shambles all round

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Apr 2024, 4:40 pm

So I guess really Quins should have had a pen in front of the posts at that point so what followed wouldn't have happened ...

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Post by Geordie Sat 27 Apr 2024, 4:42 pm

Dickson is the worst ref in the league by a mile..awful awful referee...

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Apr 2024, 4:43 pm

Absolutely ...

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Post by Geordie Sat 27 Apr 2024, 4:48 pm

Good little player rhat Porter mind.

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Apr 2024, 4:50 pm

Uphill for Saints now ...

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Post by Geordie Sat 27 Apr 2024, 4:57 pm

Dombrandt MOTM

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Apr 2024, 4:58 pm

Crazy match ... still can't understand how Dickson keeps getting gigs.

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Post by Geordie Sat 27 Apr 2024, 5:01 pm

Oh dear Tigers..19-0 up abd lose .

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Post by Geordie Sat 27 Apr 2024, 5:01 pm

Heaf wrote:Crazy match ... still can't understand how Dickson keeps getting gigs.

Nah I can't...he's just awful for both teams whenever he's there. We hate him up here in Newcastle ..

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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Apr 2024, 5:26 pm

Geordie wrote:Oh dear Tigers..19-0 up abd lose   .

I had Bears by 4 on Superbru so I'm happy

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Post by Poorfour Sat 27 Apr 2024, 5:37 pm

Heaf wrote:Crazy match ... still can't understand how Dickson keeps getting gigs.

I have been a supporter of his but he had a bad game today. Missed some stuff he shouldn't have , Saints got two tries and a yellow card out of him missing blatant interference on a player chasing his own kick.

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Post by formerly known as Sam Sat 27 Apr 2024, 6:14 pm

Heaf wrote:
Geordie wrote:Oh dear Tigers..19-0 up abd lose   .

I had Bears by 4 on Superbru so I'm happy

Glad you are, I was at the game and the final try was a gut punch. Bristol barely threw a proverbial punch for the first hour and were rather lucky Carley was in a lenient mood. Mike Brown got two unnecessary yellows for him play and with less than 2 mins on the clock Whiteley decides to box kick in Bristol's half and spoons it. From the inevitable carnage Bristol break and ultimately score.


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Post by Heaf Sat 27 Apr 2024, 6:22 pm

Yep sorry about that. One of the silver linings with LI going bust is I don't have the stress of watching them - small compensation though ...

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Post by WELL-PAST-IT Sun 28 Apr 2024, 1:05 pm

i think my views on Dickson's abilities have been made very clear, just above schoolboys U13s level.

But how can a ref be assigned a game of such importance when one of the sides is his old club and and a number of his old mates are playing or on the management team. Assigning him to this game is like assigning him to ref England Vs France at Twickenham in a 6N decider.

I have not seen the game but I have seen some of the controversial footage, I cannot see any mitigation for the hit on Lawes, Care did not bend down at all, I can understand that he thought his lack of height would make him okay, but it didn't and it was a clear h2h, without a mitigating factor. Straight red for me. Then, there is a promising attacking position for Saints, he dives over the ruck to take the ball out of Mitchell's hands, a straight and obvious yellow. But, thinks Dickhe*d wait hasn't he been carded before, he is my old mate, if I card him again it's red! What do I do, I'll pretend that I forgot my law book and just give a penalty.

He is appalling as a ref and worse, he is starting to officiate in lower level international matches. Who has he get incriminating evidence on?
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Post by Poorfour Sun 28 Apr 2024, 2:53 pm

You might want to read the head contact protocol again WPI. There was head contact, and it was foul play (because Care was too upright) but it was a medium degree of danger - it wasn’t an aggressive tackle at all.

There was also clear mitigation in that Lawes received the ball late and dipped into the tackle, so that Care had a sudden change in the picture (I don’t actually think he was expecting to tackle at all). That would have reduced it from a YC to a penalty, if applied.

However, refs have been instructed not to apply mitigation if the tackler was always too high, so no mitigation was applied.

I think that makes the framework overly harsh in situations where a player has to react to sudden unexpected contact, and in practice we’ve seen evidence that mitigation sometimes is applied (as with the example of Etzebeth’s YC in the RWC QF, which would have been red if the same standard had been applied as was applied to Farrell’s almost identical tackle). The directive not to apply mitigation makes a bit of a nonsense of the framework, which explicitly asks about mitigation after it has asked about foul play.

But it is what it is, and yellow was probably strictly the right call.
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Post by Geordie Sun 28 Apr 2024, 3:21 pm

Feyi Waboso is some player...glad England got him and not Wales...

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Post by Poorfour Sun 28 Apr 2024, 3:28 pm

Geordie wrote:Feyi Waboso is some player...glad England got him and not Wales...

Sam Warburton made the point in a RugbyPass interview recently that Waboso is only at Exeter because Cardiff rejected him for medicine… and he chose England because he wanted to complete his studies rather than move back to Wales to be eligible. While I’m not a fan of the old (and happily largely defunct) “go to Cambridge on a Land Economy ticket to play rugby”, I can see his point that the WRU may need to liaise with its academic institutions and have some flex on grades if they want to keep their players.
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Post by mountain man Sun 28 Apr 2024, 3:36 pm

Feyi-Wasobo is an amazing athlete. So powerful in carry and breaks so many tackles. Unlucky not to score there, it was worthy of try.

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Post by Geordie Sun 28 Apr 2024, 4:19 pm

I think Tom Cairns is looking a prospect at 9 aswell

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Post by Geordie Sun 28 Apr 2024, 4:21 pm

Poorfour wrote:
Geordie wrote:Feyi Waboso is some player...glad England got him and not Wales...

Sam Warburton made the point in a RugbyPass interview recently that Waboso is only at Exeter because Cardiff rejected him for medicine… and he chose England because he wanted to complete his studies rather than move back to Wales to be eligible. While I’m not a fan of the old (and happily largely defunct) “go to Cambridge on a Land Economy ticket to play rugby”, I can see his point that the WRU may need to liaise with its academic institutions and have some flex on grades if they want to keep their players.

Yes it was mich publicised PF ....the Welsh set up totally f'ed up...and lost huge talent. Its clear how I feel about eligibility etc...but meh I'll have this one...he's some player....

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Post by Rugby Fan Tue 30 Apr 2024, 7:56 am

It's a good week for Premiership first-hand accounts on podcasts.

On his show, Max Lahiff talks about his brace of tries in Bristol's comeback. Meanwhile, on the BBC, Danny Care gives his view of the non-yellow card incident. Both are worth a listen.

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Post by Rugby Fan Wed 01 May 2024, 4:01 pm

Itoje escaped a ban, and is clear to play.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/rugby-union/2024/05/01/maro-itoje-saracens-not-banned-dangerous-tackle-bath/

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