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URC Play Offs

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Pete330v2
RugbyFan100
BigGee
carpet baboon
jimbopip
geoff999rugby
LeinsterFan4life
bsando
Unclear
formerly known as Sam
Welshmushroom
thebandwagonsociety
mikey_dragon
RiscaGame
neilthom7
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URC Play Offs  - Page 2 Empty URC Play Offs

Post by neilthom7 Sun 02 Jun 2024, 10:20 am

First topic message reminder :

It's play off time

QUARTER-FINALS

Munster 23 v Ospreys 7
Vodacom Bulls 30 v Benetton 23
Leinster 43 v Ulster 20
Glasgow Warriors 27 v DHL Stormers 10


SEMI-FINALS

Vodacom Bulls 25 v Leinster 20
Munster 10 v Glasgow Warriors 17

URC GRAND FINAL

Saturday 22nd June 2024
Vodacom Bulls v Glasgow Warriors
Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria.
17:00 UK/Ireland (18:00 SA)
Live on- RTE (Ireland), Premier Sports (UK & Ireland), SuperSport (South Africa), Sky Italia (Italy), Flo Rugby (USA) and URC.tv



Last edited by neilthom7 on Sun 16 Jun 2024, 5:46 pm; edited 3 times in total

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Post by bsando Sun 09 Jun 2024, 8:23 am

So the top four sides all win their respective matches. Why do the URC have quarterfinals? It seems like an extra fixture that extends the season unnecessarily.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 09 Jun 2024, 8:36 am

bsando wrote:So the top four sides all win their respective matches. Why do the URC have quarterfinals? It seems like an extra fixture that extends the season unnecessarily.
Poor attendances all round too. I don't understand the logic.

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Post by geoff999rugby Sun 09 Jun 2024, 11:26 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
bsando wrote:So the top four sides all win their respective matches. Why do the URC have quarterfinals? It seems like an extra fixture that extends the season unnecessarily.
Poor attendances all round too. I don't understand the logic.

What is the magic number then?
4 as in the Premiership, 6 as in France or 8 as in the URC.

Sure all the home teams one, last year there were 2 away wins - whats the point being made?
8 teams maintains interest in the league.
No change for me.

As to crowds what were they?
Over 18,000 watch Leinster v Ulster
If they were similar to a league game that seems ok to me

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Post by jimbopip Sun 09 Jun 2024, 12:06 pm

Also, the thing about the play offs it fans don't really get a lot of time to make travel arrangements between rounds so you don't see too many away fans.

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Post by carpet baboon Sun 09 Jun 2024, 2:38 pm

I think telhe 8 team playoff was in part, the hope that you would get every participating nation with a team in it and keep all the countries interested.
Also the hope of more money

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 09 Jun 2024, 3:10 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
bsando wrote:So the top four sides all win their respective matches. Why do the URC have quarterfinals? It seems like an extra fixture that extends the season unnecessarily.
Poor attendances all round too. I don't understand the logic.

What is the magic number then?
4 as in the Premiership, 6 as in France or 8 as in the URC.

Sure all the home teams one, last year there were 2 away wins - whats the point  being made?
8 teams maintains interest in the league.
No change for me.

As to crowds what were they?
Over 18,000 watch Leinster v Ulster
If they were similar to a league game that seems ok to me
I like the top 14 system. Having Leinster completely dominate the regular season last year to only have to play a completely pointless home game against the 8th placed side, in front of an empty stadium was a total waste of time for instance.

The amount of interest in these QFs is very low and then you only have a week to build it up and sell tickets. The amount of empty seats for the Glasgow Stormers game was shocking. It's not working imo.

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Post by BigGee Sun 09 Jun 2024, 3:57 pm

It is a league with more sides in it than the others.

Clearly a quarter final in the English League would be currently ridiculous and the French have a sort of half way house.

The URC was pretty competitive right to the death this year and that definitely makes it a better league. So keeping the interest going can only be a good thing.

If it is not broken don't try and fix it!

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Post by Unclear Sun 09 Jun 2024, 4:04 pm

Personally I don't like play-offs to decide what is called a league. Whoever is top after all the games should be the winner. But I fully accept this is an archaic view in professional sport, particularly one desperate to make money. As long as some of the proceeds from the playoffs leads to better funding for recruiting and training gameday officials I'm content. For all the improvements over the years, and there have been some, refereeing standards still need raising.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Sun 09 Jun 2024, 4:23 pm

Unclear wrote:Personally I don't like play-offs to decide what is called a league.  Whoever is top after all the games should be the winner.  But I fully accept this is an archaic view in professional sport, particularly one desperate to make money.  As long as some of the proceeds from the playoffs leads to better funding for recruiting and training gameday officials I'm content.  For all the improvements over the years, and there have been some, refereeing standards still need raising.
I think playoffs make perfect sense for rugby to be fair. Teams can't send out their full squads every week for various reasons, so I don't think the regular season is the truest reflection on who is the top side.

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Post by neilthom7 Sun 09 Jun 2024, 7:29 pm

Play offs are a necessity the way the league is formatted otherwise the teams with weaker schedules could potentially win it and not really deserve it.

8 is fine the way it is, keeps it all interesting to the final week of the season, stops teams getting to the semis who shouldn't be there and yes this year the home teams won but last year 2 away teams won in the quarters and a team from outside the top 4 won the whole thing so the idea of it not being competitive because of one season is daft.

Also it's not like we went into these games thinking the top 4 would all easy win. Benetton only lost by a score and pushed the bulls the whole way, Glasgow and Stormers before hand I couldn't call and Ulster beat Leinster twice this year so not like they were slam dunks.

If you want to get rid of a pointless game the last 16 in the Champions Cup is the one to go for.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Mon 10 Jun 2024, 11:21 am

Apparently this wasn't penalised. No TMO check and no replays were shown on TV. What a league  URC Play Offs  - Page 2 1f605

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SY8WS

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Post by carpet baboon Mon 10 Jun 2024, 12:44 pm

We have all missed you RF100 welcome back

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Post by geoff999rugby Mon 10 Jun 2024, 4:14 pm

neilthom7 wrote:Play offs are a necessity the way the league is formatted otherwise the teams with weaker schedules could potentially win it and not really deserve it.

8 is fine the way it is, keeps it all interesting to the final week of the season, stops teams getting to the semis who shouldn't be there and yes this year the home teams won but last year 2 away teams won in the quarters and a team from outside the top 4 won the whole thing so the idea of it not being competitive because of one season is daft.

Also it's not like we went into these games thinking the top 4 would all easy win. Benetton only lost by a score and pushed the bulls the whole way, Glasgow and Stormers before hand I couldn't call and Ulster beat Leinster twice this year so not like they were slam dunks.

If you want to get rid of a pointless game the last 16 in the Champions Cup is the one to go for.

+1 on all points made

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Mon 10 Jun 2024, 7:05 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:Apparently this wasn't penalised. No TMO check and no replays were shown on TV. What a league  URC Play Offs  - Page 2 1f605

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SY8WS
Great to see neutral fans interested in the playoffs.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 11 Jun 2024, 9:10 am

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Apparently this wasn't penalised. No TMO check and no replays were shown on TV. What a league  URC Play Offs  - Page 2 1f605

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SY8WS
Great to see neutral fans interested in the playoffs.

I wasn't interested enough to watch it, don't worry. Just saw this example of the usual great URC refereeing standards posted on another forum.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 11 Jun 2024, 10:23 am

The referee actually had a good game.

He may have missed this and an offence by Doris that should have been an Ulster try but overall did well.
Certainly better than Carley in the European Final

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Post by carpet baboon Tue 11 Jun 2024, 10:36 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Apparently this wasn't penalised. No TMO check and no replays were shown on TV. What a league  URC Play Offs  - Page 2 1f605

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SY8WS
Great to see neutral fans interested in the playoffs.

I wasn't interested enough to watch it, don't worry. Just saw this example of the usual great URC refereeing standards posted on another forum.

Well we're all happy you rushed here to share it. Your opinion is always welcome

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 11 Jun 2024, 11:54 am

carpet baboon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Apparently this wasn't penalised. No TMO check and no replays were shown on TV. What a league  URC Play Offs  - Page 2 1f605

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SY8WS
Great to see neutral fans interested in the playoffs.

I wasn't interested enough to watch it, don't worry. Just saw this example of the usual great URC refereeing standards posted on another forum.

Well we're all happy you rushed here to share it. Your opinion is always welcome

Nobody can be arsed to even discuss it, such is the apathy for the league.

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Post by Pete330v2 Tue 11 Jun 2024, 12:11 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Apparently this wasn't penalised. No TMO check and no replays were shown on TV. What a league  URC Play Offs  - Page 2 1f605

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SY8WS
Great to see neutral fans interested in the playoffs.

I wasn't interested enough to watch it, don't worry. Just saw this example of the usual great URC refereeing standards posted on another forum.

Well we're all happy you rushed here to share it. Your opinion is always welcome

Nobody can be arsed to even discuss it, such is the apathy for the league.

Well can we begin the discussion with what it is you think should have been penalised and we'll either agree or counter.

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Post by carpet baboon Tue 11 Jun 2024, 12:50 pm

My assumptions are he believes cooney and Doris are part of the ruck, which they aren't so probably thinks it's a side.entry.
He may also believe it's a contact with head, but to me anyway it looks like it's shoulder to shoulder contact and he uses his arms, they are not tucked.
If he had watched the game after the clear out I believe it is Henshaw makes no remonstrations and gets up with no complaints. So I don't believe he thinks the clear out was illegal .

But from a short clip with no other knowledge he has probably come to a conclusion that confirms his preconceived bias.
But who knows

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Tue 11 Jun 2024, 12:51 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Apparently this wasn't penalised. No TMO check and no replays were shown on TV. What a league  URC Play Offs  - Page 2 1f605

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SY8WS
Great to see neutral fans interested in the playoffs.

I wasn't interested enough to watch it, don't worry. Just saw this example of the usual great URC refereeing standards posted on another forum.

Well we're all happy you rushed here to share it. Your opinion is always welcome

Nobody can be arsed to even discuss it, such is the apathy for the league.
The league has never been more watched or attended.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 11 Jun 2024, 1:34 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Apparently this wasn't penalised. No TMO check and no replays were shown on TV. What a league  URC Play Offs  - Page 2 1f605

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SY8WS
Great to see neutral fans interested in the playoffs.

I wasn't interested enough to watch it, don't worry. Just saw this example of the usual great URC refereeing standards posted on another forum.

Well we're all happy you rushed here to share it. Your opinion is always welcome

Nobody can be arsed to even discuss it, such is the apathy for the league.
The league has never been more watched or attended.

Lolz, not here it's not.

Attendances in Ireland are also down

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 GPOj6nWaMAA_Es_?format=jpg&name=large

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Tue 11 Jun 2024, 2:06 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Apparently this wasn't penalised. No TMO check and no replays were shown on TV. What a league  URC Play Offs  - Page 2 1f605

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SY8WS
Great to see neutral fans interested in the playoffs.

I wasn't interested enough to watch it, don't worry. Just saw this example of the usual great URC refereeing standards posted on another forum.

Well we're all happy you rushed here to share it. Your opinion is always welcome

Nobody can be arsed to even discuss it, such is the apathy for the league.
The league has never been more watched or attended.

Lolz, not here it's not.

Attendances in Ireland are also down

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 GPOj6nWaMAA_Es_?format=jpg&name=large
Where's the 2024 figure?

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 11 Jun 2024, 2:07 pm

So attendance is up in Italy, Scotland, Sounth Africa and overall but that equates to it not being the most watched season Headscratch
Unless your making a silly reference to the 2024 figures

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 11 Jun 2024, 2:09 pm

The reality is the URC is going from strength to strength since the Saffers joined.

The English Premiership by contrast has lost 3 teams in the last few years and of the, now only 10 team league,
has one who won zero games and only accumulated 5 points all season.
Now that is a league with issues

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 11 Jun 2024, 2:11 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Apparently this wasn't penalised. No TMO check and no replays were shown on TV. What a league  URC Play Offs  - Page 2 1f605

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SY8WS
Great to see neutral fans interested in the playoffs.

I wasn't interested enough to watch it, don't worry. Just saw this example of the usual great URC refereeing standards posted on another forum.

Well we're all happy you rushed here to share it. Your opinion is always welcome

Nobody can be arsed to even discuss it, such is the apathy for the league.
The league has never been more watched or attended.

Lolz, not here it's not.

Attendances in Ireland are also down

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 GPOj6nWaMAA_Es_?format=jpg&name=large
Where's the 2024 figure?

I'm guessing that that one is next season.

I think these are regular season games only but not sure. Anyway the point is, that the URC is growing in soem places and is falling in some places. Adding the SA teams was only ever going to boost the numbers of veerything.

Some of the crowds in Joberg have though, been absolutely pathetic. Per capita, far more pathetic than anything served up in Wales for instance.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 11 Jun 2024, 2:12 pm

And yes, there is clear head contact here, you can see the way his head jolts sideways. No review, no replay, no nothing.

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SYCGW

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 11 Jun 2024, 2:15 pm

geoff999rugby wrote:The reality is the URC is going from strength to strength since the Saffers joined.

The English Premiership by contrast has lost 3 teams in the last few years and of the, now only 10 team league,
has one who won zero games and only accumulated 5 points all season.
Now that is a league with issues

The English Prem is a far, far better product IMO, week in, week out due to the salary cap. Other than the recent gloucester debacle which was appallign and newcastle which was an outlier. The final was an amazing game.

Leisnter are signing Jordie Barrett while the Welsh teams have a squad spend of less than leinster's central contract players.

It's a broken league.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Tue 11 Jun 2024, 2:17 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:Apparently this wasn't penalised. No TMO check and no replays were shown on TV. What a league  URC Play Offs  - Page 2 1f605

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 SY8WS
Great to see neutral fans interested in the playoffs.

I wasn't interested enough to watch it, don't worry. Just saw this example of the usual great URC refereeing standards posted on another forum.

Well we're all happy you rushed here to share it. Your opinion is always welcome

Nobody can be arsed to even discuss it, such is the apathy for the league.
The league has never been more watched or attended.

Lolz, not here it's not.

Attendances in Ireland are also down

URC Play Offs  - Page 2 GPOj6nWaMAA_Es_?format=jpg&name=large
Where's the 2024 figure?

I'm guessing that that one is next season.

I think these are regular season games only but not sure. Anyway the point is, that the URC is growing in soem places and is falling in some places. Adding the SA teams was only ever going to boost the numbers of veerything.

Some of the crowds in Joberg have though, been absolutely pathetic. Per capita, far more pathetic than anything served up in Wales for instance.

From what I've read from SA fans...I don't think there's anything they can do with joberg because people are afraid to go to the stadium due to the crime there. I know nothing about the situation there however.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 11 Jun 2024, 2:22 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:

From what I've read from SA fans...I don't think there's anything they can do with joberg because people are afraid to go to the stadium due to the crime there. I know nothing about the situation there however.

So the URC invite a team that play rugby there into it's league?

Good going guys.

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Post by LeinsterFan4life Tue 11 Jun 2024, 2:26 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:

From what I've read from SA fans...I don't think there's anything they can do with joberg because people are afraid to go to the stadium due to the crime there. I know nothing about the situation there however.

So the URC invite a team that play rugby there into it's league?

Good going guys.
Yeah they played in super rugby too... they also had some of the highest TV ratings last year.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Tue 11 Jun 2024, 2:37 pm

LeinsterFan4life wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
LeinsterFan4life wrote:

From what I've read from SA fans...I don't think there's anything they can do with joberg because people are afraid to go to the stadium due to the crime there. I know nothing about the situation there however.

So the URC invite a team that play rugby there into it's league?

Good going guys.
Yeah they played in super rugby too... they also had some of the highest TV ratings last year.

I'm not surprised, in a city of 6 million people, everyone was watching at home instead of going to the game.

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Post by Welshmushroom Tue 11 Jun 2024, 5:38 pm

You know from a pure sponsorship point of view that's actually a good thing.....TV revenue is based on viewership numbers. My understanding they had massive numbers last season in the URC and the number is bigger again this year.

They have also said they are expecting the TV deal to increase at the next renewal and several new broadcasters are interested in the bidding process this time.

Meanwhile the Premiership deal was reduced by a lot and while the PRL said they hope that in 2 years they will increase it, TNT have indicated it is likely to drop further unless their viewership numbers go up a lot.

So just on Sponsorship alone it appears the URC is in larger demand than the Premiership.

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Post by geoff999rugby Tue 11 Jun 2024, 5:41 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:

The English Prem is a far, far better product IMO, week in, week out due to the salary cap. Other than the recent gloucester debacle which was appallign and newcastle which was an outlier.


As you say IMO - my opinion is the opposite
Trouble is 2 outliers when you only have 10 teams is 20%

RugbyFan100 wrote:
The final was an amazing game.


Really -- some decent rugby I grant you but Saints were poor against 14 men and in truth thne sending off decided the game
Amazing game is a bit of a stretch.
We haven't had our final yet

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Leisnter are signing Jordie Barrett while the Welsh teams have a squad spend of less than leinster's central contract players.

So you reckon the 10 Leinster Central Contract players will be getting more thnan £4.5 million - wrong

RugbyFan100 wrote:
It's a broken league.

A broken league is one where 23 teams have gone bust and another cant win a single game and only get 5 points all season.

I get you support your league as I do but I really dont see the point in your continued wind up posts on URC matter
In the end it becomes very tedious

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Post by Welshmushroom Tue 11 Jun 2024, 5:53 pm

RugbyFan100 wrote:
geoff999rugby wrote:The reality is the URC is going from strength to strength since the Saffers joined.

The English Premiership by contrast has lost 3 teams in the last few years and of the, now only 10 team league,
has one who won zero games and only accumulated 5 points all season.
Now that is a league with issues

The English Prem is a far, far better product IMO, week in, week out due to the salary cap. Other than the recent gloucester debacle which was appallign and newcastle which was an outlier. The final was an amazing game.

Leisnter are signing Jordie Barrett while the Welsh teams have a squad spend of less than leinster's central contract players.

It's a broken league.

Why is Newcastle and outlier?  They have spent under the salary cap for a number of years.  They have already indicated this will the same next year and probably continue that way unless they get new investors (which I believe the owner has been trying to do for several years without success).

I'd also question your basis on what makes you think the product on the field is better than the URC.  Substantially less international players on show that either Top14 or the URC.  1 third of all the players are not English whereas the URC teams have a majority of home grown squads on almost every level.

I actually think your argument is a little foolish given neither league or teams within it actually share that many similarities.  

To be honest the one thing that did actually add drama to the Premiership was relegation but now that's gone I doubt they will ever bring that back so they can secure their own self interests of staying at the top table.  Without that the league basically isn't even particularly demanding any longer as the are very few reasons to have to play well.

I'd also say there are plenty of Sports that do just fine without salary caps with football probably being the most successful example of them all.


Last edited by Welshmushroom on Tue 11 Jun 2024, 6:08 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by carpet baboon Tue 11 Jun 2024, 6:05 pm

Arguing with RF100 I'd as pointless as arguing with Phillbb was. He will cherry pick stats to suit his argument, claim opinion is fact. And anything to do with the URC is wrong and that is what's destroying Welsh rugby.
All the while dreaming of the day the PRL ride to the rescue.

But the facts remain the same. The PRL/RFU have and never have had any interest in an Anglo Welsh league. Every news article claiming that "Welsh clubs are set to join PRL shock" can be attributed to simple client journalism and outright fantasy from "unnamed sources" that needed a bit of an extra lever in negotiating with there own union.
The one talks we know happened were a very brief (for the moment) British and Irish league which was more to do with CVC than the URC/PRL unions. And the outcome was rumoured to be the IRFU and SRU saying they wouldn't be willing to abandon the Italians and South Africans, but no solid plan for tournament structure was ever discussed it was all a bit of a "think this might make us money/are we all willing" chat

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Post by Welshmushroom Tue 11 Jun 2024, 6:13 pm

Welsh Rugby leaving the URC at this point would be simply foolish. Playing English teams would make zero difference to attendances except maybe bring some more away supporters to our grounds.

Our player development would take a hit too as right now we get to face 4 different cultures and playstyles which is better preparation for international rugby than anywhere else.

Sure the URC has some drawbacks but for me since the Saffers have joined the product has got better each season.

I can never rule out what welsh rugby ends up doing but doing this in my opinion would probably be the start of the end for welsh rugby.


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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 12 Jun 2024, 9:43 am

Welshmushroom wrote:You know from a pure sponsorship point of view that's actually a good thing.....TV revenue is based on viewership numbers.  My understanding they had massive numbers last season in the URC and the number is bigger again this year.  

They have also said they are expecting the TV deal to increase at the next renewal and several new broadcasters are interested in the bidding process this time.

Meanwhile the Premiership deal was reduced by a lot and while the PRL said they hope that in 2 years they will increase it, TNT have indicated it is likely to drop further unless their viewership numbers go up a lot.  

So just on Sponsorship alone it appears the URC is in larger demand than the Premiership.  

Interesting, have you got any figures?

Because in the WRU annual report, competition income (which includes broadcasting) has gone down.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 12 Jun 2024, 9:50 am

carpet baboon wrote: The PRL/RFU have and never have had any interest in an Anglo Welsh league. Every news article claiming that "Welsh clubs are set to join PRL shock" can be attributed to simple client journalism and outright fantasy from "unnamed sources" that needed a bit of an extra lever in negotiating with there own union.
t


You continue to make yourself look like a fool. A direct quote from Exeter head coach Rob Baxter in February:

"It is an interesting concept and one I would not be against,” said Exeter director of rugby Rob Baxter, below, whose side played the Scarlets yesterday in a friendly. “It would depend on how much money there is. That is what drives league structures, television and sponsorship deals and opportunities for big gates. “The approach we must have is what makes us most viable as clubs and the question is the same for the Welsh regions. Revenue is the key. I have no problem with the idea of it – it would be fantastic going to games in Wales and it would cut down our travel costs. If there is a taste for it and a willingness from backers I would say it is likely to happen.

https://gb.readly.com/magazines/the-rugby-paper/2024-02-11/65c8a9310c4ec08922a5cdda

I don't expect an apology.

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Post by Welshmushroom Wed 12 Jun 2024, 9:59 am

Baxter is hardly main stream in terms of his views though.....lets be fair he has thrown some outlandish comments out there at times as well.....He's also been critical of World Rugby and the PRL when changes haven't favored his team. My point is I don't think he is taking the whole of England into consideration with his views at times.

The outlier is not the rule - if you get what I'm saying.

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Post by Welshmushroom Wed 12 Jun 2024, 10:10 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:You know from a pure sponsorship point of view that's actually a good thing.....TV revenue is based on viewership numbers.  My understanding they had massive numbers last season in the URC and the number is bigger again this year.  

They have also said they are expecting the TV deal to increase at the next renewal and several new broadcasters are interested in the bidding process this time.

Meanwhile the Premiership deal was reduced by a lot and while the PRL said they hope that in 2 years they will increase it, TNT have indicated it is likely to drop further unless their viewership numbers go up a lot.  

So just on Sponsorship alone it appears the URC is in larger demand than the Premiership.  

Interesting, have you got any figures?

Because in the WRU annual report, competition income (which includes broadcasting) has gone down.

WRU figures will include the national teams tv revenue deals as well. I believe the reduction for team wales has been that some of the national tv income has reduced and actually has nothing to do with the URC money. Also European rugby tv deals have also gone down but again this is separate from the URC TV deals.

The URC have published these numbers previously so you can look these up yourself if you like.

I notice you skated straight past the fact that the PRL TV deals have been significantly reduced? I would argue on the latest TV data that the URC is significantly more popular than the Premiership. But again it's a foolish argument because the URC as a whole is almost is 3 times the size of English population so has a clear advantage.

I actually think comparing the URC to the Premiership in anyway is silly as there are very few things they have in common.

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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 12 Jun 2024, 10:32 am

Welshmushroom wrote:
RugbyFan100 wrote:
Welshmushroom wrote:You know from a pure sponsorship point of view that's actually a good thing.....TV revenue is based on viewership numbers.  My understanding they had massive numbers last season in the URC and the number is bigger again this year.  

They have also said they are expecting the TV deal to increase at the next renewal and several new broadcasters are interested in the bidding process this time.

Meanwhile the Premiership deal was reduced by a lot and while the PRL said they hope that in 2 years they will increase it, TNT have indicated it is likely to drop further unless their viewership numbers go up a lot.  

So just on Sponsorship alone it appears the URC is in larger demand than the Premiership.  

Interesting, have you got any figures?

Because in the WRU annual report, competition income (which includes broadcasting) has gone down.

WRU figures will include the national teams tv revenue deals as well.  I believe the reduction for team wales has been that some of the national tv income has reduced and actually has nothing to do with the URC money.  Also European rugby tv deals have also gone down but again this is separate from the URC TV deals.

The URC have published these numbers previously so you can look these up yourself if you like.  

I notice you skated straight past the fact that the PRL TV deals have been significantly reduced?  I would argue on the latest TV data that the URC is significantly more popular than the Premiership.  But again it's a foolish argument because the URC as a whole is almost is 3 times the size of English population so has a clear advantage.

I actually think comparing the URC to the Premiership in anyway is silly as there are very few things they have in common.  

The Premiership deals have been reduced because the number of teams has reduced. Likewise, the URC has increased in overall figure since the South African teams joined. But It's not rocket science.

There was a report in the Financial times that claiemd a large figure of over 50m a year for the URC but that was never backed up, and apparently it's not evenly distributed as the South Africans apparently get more of their own super sport deal than any of the otehr teams.

A with everything URC and Union backed, it's opaque, not transparent and shrouded in vagueness.

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Post by carpet baboon Wed 12 Jun 2024, 10:57 am

RugbyFan100 wrote:
carpet baboon wrote: The PRL/RFU have and never have had any interest in an Anglo Welsh league. Every news article claiming that "Welsh clubs are set to join PRL shock" can be attributed to simple client journalism and outright fantasy from "unnamed sources" that needed a bit of an extra lever in negotiating with there own union.
t


You continue to make yourself look like a fool. A direct quote from Exeter head coach Rob Baxter in February:

"It is an interesting concept and one I would not be against,” said Exeter director of rugby Rob Baxter, below, whose side played the Scarlets yesterday in a friendly. “It would depend on how much money there is. That is what drives league structures, television and sponsorship deals and opportunities for big gates. “The approach we must have is what makes us most viable as clubs and the question is the same for the Welsh regions. Revenue is the key. I have no problem with the idea of it – it would be fantastic going to games in Wales and it would cut down our travel costs. If there is a taste for it and a willingness from backers I would say it is likely to happen.

https://gb.readly.com/magazines/the-rugby-paper/2024-02-11/65c8a9310c4ec08922a5cdda

I don't expect an apology.

Should I send.you the quote.from the head of the PRL and RFU who stated, in public, that they " have not had discussions and have no future plans to hold discussions" with regards an Anglo Welsh league. I'm pretty sure they are more informed than one PRL coach.

But again arguing with you is pointless. You hate the URC and nothing will change that. You don't watch a game but come here to point out how 'shocking" the refereeing is. I wonder did you show such outrage with the PRL ref who only gave a 7 minute yellow? Or when Danny cares old teammate reached for a yellow ( would have been his second so a red) then decided against it?? No I doubt you did.

Thing is even if you did get an Anglo Welsh league I wonder how long it would take for the same complaints to appear when your fighting with Newcastle for bottom place. "Biased English ref" "Friday night game in Newcastle " "Sunday away at quins at 3pm"



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Post by RugbyFan100 Wed 12 Jun 2024, 11:01 am

At least I'd be able to get to a Sunday 3pm game at Quins without taking an airplane or boat.

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Post by geoff999rugby Wed 12 Jun 2024, 5:40 pm

Leaving this thread - another one ruined by a wind up merchant

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Post by Old Man Wed 12 Jun 2024, 7:51 pm

Evening guys, long time no see.

From a South African perspective I think the URC seems to be getting more and more popular, attendances are growing, tv viewership is growing.

I think the competition is getting more and more competitive and the rugby overall is rather entertaining.

Considering that down to 11 spot on the ladder was in the running for a play off spot up the the final rounds meant that foregone conclusions and predictability went out the window and that is what crowds want.

Stormers and Bulls fans are again starting to strwam back through the turnstyles is a very positive sign. The Sharks after winning the Challenge cup will most likely start seeing more growth in attendance as well. It has been a disappointing season in the URC for them and I expected their new coach John Plumtree to make an impact sooner.

As for the Lions, they might be the weaker of the SA teams due to less sponsorship, fewer stars, less revenue and lowest attendance between the SA teams, but considering where their stadium is situated an average of 10 000 spectators is really not that bad. Personally I love the rugby they have been putting on display.

Someone earlier commented how pathetic their attendances are (think it was rugbyfan) for a city with a population of 6 million. Well the stadium is situated in Doornfotein which over the last thirty years have turned into a drug infested and crime ridden area where very few people with common sense would drive to at night and leave their vehicles unattended. Most will use park and ride (buses) to go to the stadium and there are limited transport of that nature available. Some companies in the area will allow their secure parking lots to be available to leave vehicles, but even that only allows so many to go to the stadium on their own accord.

A number of years back there were rumours of a new stadium to be built in Alberton a suburd south of Johannesburg but that never came to fruition. I suspects the Lions just don't have the finances for it.

Anyhow, URC looking good from my perspective

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Post by Welshmushroom Thu 13 Jun 2024, 7:06 pm

Welcome back old man!

I suspected the move for SA has been really good as well and you can see that moving into season 4 most of the SA teams are getting a much bigger salary cap as well.

And what that has now lead to is top players heading back home which is good for SA and the URC.  

I'm guessing Plumtree will run out of excuses next year at the Sharks given how many top end players they are bringing in this summer.  He's going to have access to one of the biggest packs in the league and probably the best centre pairing.  I would have thought anything less than top 4 for them next year would be disappointing and not making top 8 would probably be unacceptable.

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Post by Old Man Thu 13 Jun 2024, 7:26 pm

Thanks Welshmushroom, yes Plumtree has previously been succesful with the Sharks, he did coach them for quite a number of years, I think he won the Currie Cup a couple of times and if memory serves then his 2012 season in Super Rugby took them to the finals, I remember a 13 man Sharks tram beat the Crusaders in Christchurch in the play offs, bu they eventually succumbed in the final after having to cross the Indian ocean in three consecutive weekends.

I had big hope that the Sharks with their new found riches and talent pool would do well this season, perhaps next season we will begin to see the fruition of all of this.

There has been talk about the SA teams realising they need bigger squads to navigate between the URC and Champions Cup.

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Post by mikey_dragon Fri 14 Jun 2024, 4:04 pm

Bulls vs Leinster will be a humdinger. I also suspect Leinster could turn over Munster (or Glasgow) in the final, I think Bulls would be less likely to do so.

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Post by neilthom7 Sat 15 Jun 2024, 5:29 pm

Bulls through then in a tight contest. Will it be a final in Ireland or South Africa now is the question.

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