Who should play fly-half for Ireland against Australia?

My vote is for Sexto.

Sorry I left out Jezza Staunton. Poor guy.

Sexton's taking the lead. Glad to see that Ronan O'Gara has finally and rightly been cast aside.

definitely Sexton. He is already more of a player than Ogara was at his peak.

mckay1402 wrote:He is already more of a player than Ogara was at his peak.

Really? I'd say you'd find few people who'd agree.

I mean a more complete player. Whether he's better or not is debatable but I think he brings more dimensions to a game. You pretty much know that O'Gara is going to kick for territory. he does it very well but I think Sexton is more of a threat with ball in hand.

We all know it's between O'Gara and Sexton for this one lads- no need to throw Wallace and Humph. Jnr into the mix. Paddy will be tearing it up in the Irish midfield and Humph will be helping Ulster get our season off to a cracking start.

red_stag wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:He is already more of a player than Ogara was at his peak.

Really? I'd say you'd find few people who'd agree.

I agree. Sexton is miles ahead of O'Gara in every facet of the game. Importantly, he can actually defend. He's a way better runner with ball in hand, a better kicker from hand and his place kicking is improving.

mckay1402 wrote:I mean a more complete player. Whether he's better or not is debatable but I think he brings more dimensions to a game. You pretty much know that O'Gara is going to kick for territory. he does it very well but I think Sexton is more of a threat with ball in hand.

Ok that I agree with

ruggerbyplayer wrote:

red_stag wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:He is already more of a player than Ogara was at his peak.

Really? I'd say you'd find few people who'd agree.

I agree. Sexton is miles ahead of O'Gara in every facet of the game. Importantly, he can actually defend. He's a way better runner with ball in hand, a better kicker from hand and his place kicking is improving.

A better kicker from hand. are you having a laugh. To say O'Gara is not a good player with ball in hand is silly too. The man has set up more tries for Ireland than any other OH. Just because he can't make a break himself does not mean he is a bad player with ball in hand.

Paddy Wallace

Ha ha can't believe Paddy and Humphreys are getting more votes than ROG.

Seriously it should be Sexton. No doubt about it.

Seriously, who is voting for Wallace and Humphreys?

I don't care about Wallace, but get yer hands off Humphreys! We need him on the home front

Has to be Sexton doesn't it? A more complete game than O'Gara certainly. Or course if you need someone to close out the game in the last quarter than O'Gara's a decent bet. Not sure about whoever said Sexton was the better kicker from hand though

Notch wrote:Seriously, who is voting for Wallace and Humphreys?

I don't care about Wallace, but get yer hands off Humphreys! We need him on the home front

Sorry I gave Wallace my vote. I felt sorry for him because he gets such a hard time.

I think we have to attack australia and retain the ball, therefore it has to be Sexton. Some of the stuff above about ROG is rubbish, of course he can play with the ball in hand but he can't do it as effectively as Sexton.

caoimhincentre wrote:

ruggerbyplayer wrote:

red_stag wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:He is already more of a player than Ogara was at his peak.

Really? I'd say you'd find few people who'd agree.

I agree. Sexton is miles ahead of O'Gara in every facet of the game. Importantly, he can actually defend. He's a way better runner with ball in hand, a better kicker from hand and his place kicking is improving.

A better kicker from hand. are you having a laugh. To say O'Gara is not a good player with ball in hand is silly too. The man has set up more tries for Ireland than any other OH. Just because he can't make a break himself does not mean he is a bad player with ball in hand.

Yeh I do think Sexton is a better kicker from hand. He beats O'Gara for distance hands down. His kicking in the Heineken Cup final was brilliant.

There are two key problems with O'Gara:

1) He poses absolutely no attacking threat with ball in hand. The opposition know he will pass. Look at Dan Carter, Quade Cooper or Matt Giteau - the opposition haven't got a clue what they're doing. They could step, run straight, dummy, kick, chip, pass.... the list goes on. With O'Gara it's just same old, same old. Sexton can inject a bit of dynamism and pace.

2) He can't defend. We want a fly-half who can actually defend. O'Gara stands no chance against big ball carrying forwards or centres. It's laughable how many tackles he misses.

Notch wrote:
I don't care about Wallace

You are a liar.

I think at the start of last year O'Gara was slightly ahead of Sexton but that over the course of this season, Sexton has put his head in front for team selection with some assured quality performances in big games.

I like that O'Gara still has enough experience and quality to be pushing for the starting position and the competition is bringing the best out of both players. But Sexton is just ahead in my view and should, barring injury, be the starting 10 for the RWC.

I'm finding it pretty amusing that O'Gara hasn't got any votes yet. Poor old ROG.

ruggerbyplayer wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:

ruggerbyplayer wrote:

red_stag wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:He is already more of a player than Ogara was at his peak.

Really? I'd say you'd find few people who'd agree.

I agree. Sexton is miles ahead of O'Gara in every facet of the game. Importantly, he can actually defend. He's a way better runner with ball in hand, a better kicker from hand and his place kicking is improving.

A better kicker from hand. are you having a laugh. To say O'Gara is not a good player with ball in hand is silly too. The man has set up more tries for Ireland than any other OH. Just because he can't make a break himself does not mean he is a bad player with ball in hand.

Yeh I do think Sexton is a better kicker from hand. He beats O'Gara for distance hands down. His kicking in the Heineken Cup final was brilliant.

There are two key problems with O'Gara:

1) He poses absolutely no attacking threat with ball in hand. The opposition know he will pass. Look at Dan Carter, Quade Cooper or Matt Giteau - the opposition haven't got a clue what they're doing. They could step, run straight, dummy, kick, chip, pass.... the list goes on. With O'Gara it's just same old, same old. Sexton can inject a bit of dynamism and pace.

2) He can't defend. We want a fly-half who can actually defend. O'Gara stands no chance against big ball carrying forwards or centres. It's laughable how many tackles he misses.

Rubbish. If O'gara is as bad with ball in hand as you say he is how do explain his try scoring record. 16 tries at international level for an OH is not bad at all.
Just because he doesn;t have the break that the players you mention have doesn't mean all he is going to do is pass or kick.

caoimhincentre wrote:

ruggerbyplayer wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:

ruggerbyplayer wrote:

red_stag wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:He is already more of a player than Ogara was at his peak.

Really? I'd say you'd find few people who'd agree.

I agree. Sexton is miles ahead of O'Gara in every facet of the game. Importantly, he can actually defend. He's a way better runner with ball in hand, a better kicker from hand and his place kicking is improving.

A better kicker from hand. are you having a laugh. To say O'Gara is not a good player with ball in hand is silly too. The man has set up more tries for Ireland than any other OH. Just because he can't make a break himself does not mean he is a bad player with ball in hand.

Yeh I do think Sexton is a better kicker from hand. He beats O'Gara for distance hands down. His kicking in the Heineken Cup final was brilliant.

There are two key problems with O'Gara:

1) He poses absolutely no attacking threat with ball in hand. The opposition know he will pass. Look at Dan Carter, Quade Cooper or Matt Giteau - the opposition haven't got a clue what they're doing. They could step, run straight, dummy, kick, chip, pass.... the list goes on. With O'Gara it's just same old, same old. Sexton can inject a bit of dynamism and pace.

2) He can't defend. We want a fly-half who can actually defend. O'Gara stands no chance against big ball carrying forwards or centres. It's laughable how many tackles he misses.

Rubbish. If O'gara is as bad with ball in hand as you say he is how do explain his try scoring record. 16 tries at international level for an OH is not bad at all.
Just because he doesn;t have the break that the players you mention have doesn't mean all he is going to do is pass or kick.

Why are you being so argumentative? If Ireland want a player who can run with the ball, beat defenders, tackle and score tries, Sexton is the right option. If Ireland want a fly-half who can't tackle, can't run and plays an outdated one-dimensional brand of rugby, then O'Gara is the right option.

Someone went fishing and caught themselves a big one

ruggerbyplayer wrote:

caoimhincentre wrote:

ruggerbyplayer wrote:

red_stag wrote:

mckay1402 wrote:He is already more of a player than Ogara was at his peak.

Really? I'd say you'd find few people who'd agree.

I agree. Sexton is miles ahead of O'Gara in every facet of the game. Importantly, he can actually defend. He's a way better runner with ball in hand, a better kicker from hand and his place kicking is improving.

A better kicker from hand. are you having a laugh. To say O'Gara is not a good player with ball in hand is silly too. The man has set up more tries for Ireland than any other OH. Just because he can't make a break himself does not mean he is a bad player with ball in hand.

Yeh I do think Sexton is a better kicker from hand. He beats O'Gara for distance hands down. His kicking in the Heineken Cup final was brilliant.

There are two key problems with O'Gara:

1) He poses absolutely no attacking threat with ball in hand. The opposition know he will pass. Look at Dan Carter, Quade Cooper or Matt Giteau - the opposition haven't got a clue what they're doing. They could step, run straight, dummy, kick, chip, pass.... the list goes on. With O'Gara it's just same old, same old. Sexton can inject a bit of dynamism and pace.

Looks like Isa & Shaggy got caught out on that one recently in Thomond Park.

Sin don't be so flipping stupid. It was Malcolm O'Kelly who got caught out in 2006. Honestly get with the programme

The moronic 'debate' above aside, what I love about our current situation is what Secton has done for ROG. If those who are quick to judge watched ROG in any match this season you would see that he has varied his game massively compared to previous seasons.

Who shouyld start? No question, I voted for Sexton, but having ROG there for 5 mins or 75mins doesnt bother me much.

Oh and a small point re ROG and tackling, he doesnt miss tackles, he is a speed bump. Humph senior, now there was a revolving door tackler.

This is just ridiculous. Of course Sexton is going to start!

red_stag wrote:Sin don't be so flipping stupid. It was Malcolm O'Kelly who got caught out in 2006. Honestly get with the programme

You are not allowed mention that here.

Its ok to look at it though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fvh1iQ2uAXg

Rodders - I gave iHumphs a vote

Lol this is my first post on the new 606 and I can honestly say I missed it!


Sexton hands down by the way. I wouldn't even let Paddy Wallace near the plane he would just do something to break it!

I don't seem to be able to vote for Paddy Jackson.

red_stag wrote:

Notch wrote:
I don't care about Wallace when it comes to the outhalf position.

You are a liar.

Happy now?

This is actually very difficult as I think O'Gara's game of pinning the opposition back in their own 22 is very effective against Australia, especially thinking back to when we beat the Australians 20-6 a couple of seasons ago.

O'Gara kicking the corners and O'Connell dominating the lineout and the Aussies just couldnt play. However Im going for Sexton this time round I think we play a different game now and Sexton is the better option for the future as well.

Sin é wrote:
Rodders - I gave iHumphs a vote

Are you nuts his defence is worse than ROG's!

It should be Sexton but i have to say the 2007 vintage of Rog (pre world cup obviously) is still better than Sexton has shown

I voted for Sexton but I feel bad for ROG now. How have Paddy Wallace and baby Humphreys got more votes than our grand slam hero? I hope it's foreigners who are still bitter about the Lions and not fellow Irish fans having a provincial dig who are voting for the other boys. I know it's already been said, but ROG pushing Sexton and vice-versa is great for our team and, although Sexton would undoubtedly be a loss if he was injured during or before the world cup, if ROG started against Australia I wouldn't be even slightly concerned (how many nations can say that about their "second" choice fly half?)

I would be quite concerned if ROG was to start for us now in a big game. He's not the player he once was. He can do the job for us, but if we're really serious about reaching the next level- it has to be Sexton with O'Gara backing him up on the bench.

Humphreys isn't in the frame, and Wallace shouldn't be considered unless there is some kind of injury crisis. He'll travel as an inside centre who can cover 10 in an emergency.

It certainly has to be Sexton starting with ROG as back up Notch but, although we'd certainly suffer if we lost Sexton, ROG could still do a very good job for us and, honestly honestly hand on heart, I'd see no reason why ROG could not be in an Irish team that could beat Australia or South Africa (depending on what happens) in the world cup.

On Humphreys not being in the frame, I would certainly say he's not if everyone is fit but what happens if god forbid one of ROG or Sexton gets injured pre world cup? I'd imagine one of them + Humphreys + Wallace would go in that situation and I'd also imagine that Humphreys would surely go ahead of Wallace in the queue of Irish FH's in such a situation? Obviously hope it doesn't happen though as Humphreys is nowhere near ROG or Sexton level just yet.

Sexton can pin the Aussies back too I think his kicking's underrated.

If the game was in Invercargill with horizontal rain then O'Gara may have had a look in!

Just for the record Notch, the last time ROG started against Australia, it was a draw in Nov. 2009. (Bowe & BOD tries + a couple of penalties).

Now Sexton has not even played in an Ireland team that managed to score a try, let alone beat Australia (2010).

Edit: and I should add that Ireland conceeded two tries to Australia - so much for not having a weakling defender!

SinE, thats the most laughable comparison I've seen. Firstly it doesn't matter diddly squat what Ireland did in 2009. We have a new game plan since then and have changed much of our Grandslam winning team. Secondly wasn't that 2010 match on that injury depleted tour away from home?

The pack that day was:

01 Cian Healy
02 Sean Cronin
03 Tony Buckley
04 Donnacha O'Callaghan
05 Mick O'Driscoll
06 Niall Ronan
07 Shane Jennings
08 Chris Henry

Most of the pack was missing.

See that's the thing Sin- it's not about O'Gara vs Sexton. It's about who best fits into this team right now and really, losing Sexton hurts the kind of game we are trying to play.

You don't need to interpret my opinion as some sort of attack on ROG, because while he was never one of the very top outhalves at any time he still may well be amongst the most significant in the history of Irish Rugby. I respect everything he's done for us, and everything he continues to do, but there comes a time when you have to look at what's best for the team and I think this team can't achieve it's potential without Sexton.

But that's just, like, my opinion man.

I was responding to Notch's comment expressing 'concern if ROG was to start for us now in a big game.'

I'm simply pointing out that Notch does not need to be concerned. As recently as the last 6Ns, he got a man-of-the-match, so I wouldn't be 'concerned at all with O'Gara starting in any big game.'

Reminder folks. Banter is fine. Personal abuse isn't.

Notch wrote:See that's the thing Sin- it's not about O'Gara vs Sexton. It's about who best fits into this team right now and really, losing Sexton hurts the kind of game we are trying to play.

Thing is, we're into knockout rugby now. In the recent head-to-head in the Magners Final, Leinster were kept in their own 22 for most of the time. Sexton couldn't get them out of there. Reddan shipped the blame a bit, but Sexton should have been controlling the match and how it was being played.

Also worth noting that Leinster (still the best backline/team in Europe even if they were tired) went tryless.

Ireland are going to be in big trouble in the world cup if they are not able to play a couple of games in a row.

Surely that's got to be the biggest no-brainer since "do you want fries with that?"?

No-one is saying that O'Gara doesn't have strengths in his game that Sexton doesn't to the same extent. In fact, I wouldn't even say he's necessarily a weaker player than Sexton. But the truth as I see it is this; we have to be able to open sides up, to play on the gainline and threaten defences. The days when we could rely on putting the ball into the corners and relying on our lineout and defence to win us games are over. And the days where a spark of magic from our centres made up for very predictable halfbacks are over too. We, as a team, need more from our 10. We need that cutting edge at 10 otherwise we'll become very easy to defend and very easy to counter.

I really, really don't want to see us running out of ideas against Australia and giving them the ball back, even in their own half, because they have the backs to kill us from anywhere on the pitch. We need to keep the ball in hand; right now, possession is more important to us than territory. Not saying territory isn't important, or playing the game in their half isn't important. But it's what we do with the ball when we have it which will define how successful (or not) we are.

Of course it is PJ (thats why I gave iHumps my vote).

Sin é wrote:Of course it is PJ (thats why I gave iHumps my vote).

FAF

Notch, moving on from O'Gara (note I haven't said he should start) - but I don't think Sexton/Ireland is good enough to play the game you want them to play.

It would be worth your while having a look at the recent Magners Final. You seem to think that O'Gara was kicking the corners - he wasn't. Keith Earls scored a try from a crossfield kick which was worth the risk because there was a penalty coming. O'Gara was not kicking away possession. O'Gara's boot keeps many a defense honest. Worth 10/20 tackles made and much easier on the body.

And, Munster's defense was well up to Leinster's attack (even with Leinster running at O'Gara all day). They didn't score a try.

PJHolybloke wrote:

Sin é wrote:Of course it is PJ (thats why I gave iHumps my vote).

FAF

I had to look up what FAF was ! (Must ask hobo for an 'embarrassed' emoticans )

Good point. However, I don't seem to be able to vote for James McKinney.

No, I don't recall ROG kicking away possession all day either... a lot is made of the differences between the players. Of course they have different strengths but it's not as polarised as they discussion may indicate.

I've really expressed my opinion on this and have nothing left to add.