Rafachintz

First topic message reminder :

Fed up of all those hard edges ... here's the place to discuss all the soft furnishings!!

I'm not even going to debate the toss with you YI Man. You're welcome to it and your opinion. In fact ... you've helped a great deal. So thanks for that.

Don't be silly Wooffs, this is the real world where people like and dislike different things.
If we went down the route of deleting comments and banning people for posting things about people or sports organisations they dislike we would have to ban half the board on here.

Came back here as I've found Rafa's presser so you can read it here.

Candid and frank as always. Thanks for that Rafa. Its a bit like that awful time at the end of 2009. He knew it was bad, but he kept believing that at some point it would come, and it did. Keep Colm And Carry On we used to say, eh Rafateers?? Keep going lovely Rafa.

Y I Man, I'm not sure that I understand the concept of hating a sportman. I wanted Novak to lose to JWT, but only because I thought that would be better for Rafa. I have nothing against Novak. He was clearly the best player today and is a worthy Wimbledon champion and world No 1. To quote Rafa "I congratulate him".

We take it to heart because Rafa was obviously very upset to lose and that upsets us. I have no problem at all in someone rejoicing in Novak's victory (like NITB). To rejoice in Rafa's loss, however, as Tenez does, when Rafa is always so gracious in defeat and has put up with painful injections and all sorts to give himself a shot at defending the title he values most seems extremely mean spirited.

Wimbledon 2011 is now finished and the tennis world moves on. When Rafa steps back on the court, we will be there supporting him as we always have.

Hi Wooffie. Thanks for the presser.

AFC, people hate sportsmen.

We have half the motorsport section who hate Lewis Hamilton. They want him to lose and constantly find faults with his driving.
We have people in athletics who hate the UKA (UK Athletics organisation)
People in boxing who hate David Haye and are pleased he lost last night and other boxers they don't like.
People in wrestling who hate John Cena.
Cricket section has posters who hate other international teams.
Football section has posters who hate other teams.

The list goes on.

You can still appreciate a sport and hate someone who plays it and take pleasure from them losing.

You're welcome Womble. And what a great post. Its really difficult tonight with things being so emotive to take a step back, but what always does enlighten me are Rafa's words.

And you are quite correct ... to rejoice in a player's loss is really bad. As is denigrating any win with accusations of cheating (whether its the incessant time between points theory or the chemical intervention) coupled also with essentially calling into question a player's integrity over their fitness when they have said they were OK ... its poor form. But hey, you reap what you sow.

And I don't think actually I'm being silly over any of this, because there's too much history from 606 and now. And I feel a bit for our Murray pals right now to be able to read that their admin. hopes he loses every time he steps on the court. And this isn't the real world, its the internet ... but it still brings responsibility.

Wooffie wrote:Haddie

Please keep on popping on by cos of PMs and stuff. I know Denz can get hold of you anyhow. We've come this far as our little gang and enjoy each other's company. There's always a way.

Ill pop my head in from time to time Wooffie... just to see how you all are..But I feel the same as when I left 606.. Hey girls we are better than this place and we deserve better.

In the meantime you take care of yourselves ....and have great summer Luv ya

Y I Man wrote:Why are you taking it to heart so much? Its up to him if he doesn't like Rafa.

I cant stand Murray, I hope he loses every match. I've never liked him and I never will. Am I not allowed that opinion?

Its got nothing to do with having a lack of respect for the tennis players, I simply cant stand him. Likewise Tenez hates Rafa and he is perfectly entitled to do so.

If people want to dislike someone in the sporting world there is nothing wrong with that and if they want to post accordingly then they can.

What the hell makes you think this forum is any better than 606 was... at least their administrators and moderators didn´t openly come out and agree with him. When are you going to see that it isn´t about like or dislike There are many on here who dislike players that do not speread their sick bile all over every thread they post on... YIman you and the other admininistrators (discounting legendkiller) encourage him in fact ILL GO AS FAR AS SAYING YOU ACTUALLY LOVE IT DONT YOU.... well revel in it and enjoy because he and you will be the death of this forum It makes you as bad as he is

You are missing the point completely. There is nothing wrong in rejoicing in someone losing and wanting them to lose.

If I work on your principle I'm therefore not allowed to say I hate chelsea, Drogba is a diving cheat, I hope they lose every match.
Or posting in motorsport saying I hope Alonso never wins a race because i cant stand him.

But for some reason when its said about a tennis player its wrong? Why? Why do you take it so personally?

Y I Man wrote:You are missing the point completely. There is nothing wrong in rejoicing in someone losing and wanting them to lose.

If I work on your principle I'm therefore not allowed to say I hate chelsea, Drogba is a diving cheat, I hope they lose every match.
Or posting in motorsport saying I hope Alonso never wins a race because i cant stand him.

But for some reason when its said about a tennis player its wrong? Why? Why do you take it so personally?

Sorry YI Man but you are in a position of high responsibility and you are showing a complete disregard for running this forum on a tight basis. Fine I can accept you detest Andy Murray so that obviously means to me that any poster who wishes can post whatever malicious slanderous stuff they want about Andy and what chance do we have of that being deleted or member banned with an Administrator who would gleefully read that stuff. As Administrator (and I know as I have been one on my own forum for over five years) you must remain impartial and treat each malicious post with equal contempt but I have now lost faith you will do that.

Fine if you want to hate Andy that is your problem but openly saying so on the forum I believe should either disqualify you from the post (as your stance is clear) but sadly it won't happen.

Craig

So you think people are not allowed to express their dislike at someone or something on an open forum. That they should have their comments deleted and the member banned?

I dont see motorsport section kicking up a fuss about the Lewis Hamilton haters, wrestling section doesnt care that people hate John Cena. Boxing section dont give a monkeys that members want certain boxers to lose.

Why is the tennis section different?
Please explain that to me because I dont understand.

No I have no problem with reasoned debate but with your expressed opinion of a hatred for Andy Murray what hope do I have of you deleting WUM posts. After all I joined this forum on the belief it was going to be so different from 606 as in properly moderated and policed with no WUM posts. Well reading your views tells me you would be a sympathiser towards those sort of posters. I mean here we have Rafa fans and myself querying your stance doesn't that tell you something?

We dont censor opinion. If people want to express their dislike at someone or something it doesn't make them a wum.

Like I have asked, all the other sections do not have a problem with people expressing a hatred for someone or the desire for wanting someone to lose.

Why is the tennis section different?

Haddie-nuff wrote:

Wooffie wrote:Haddie

Please keep on popping on by cos of PMs and stuff. I know Denz can get hold of you anyhow. We've come this far as our little gang and enjoy each other's company. There's always a way.

Ill pop my head in from time to time Wooffie... just to see how you all are..But I feel the same as when I left 606.. Hey girls we are better than this place and we deserve better.In the meantime you take care of yourselves ....and have great summer Luv ya

Yeah, suggesting "ROLL ON TO HIS RETIREMENT" for Federer makes you "better".

Pot and kettle.

It does make them a WUM when they post falsehoods as I've already seen in the tennis section as I am sure Rafa fans would admit as well. Besides a WUM doesn't appear as a WUM to one who sympathises no strike that revels in their views and opinions which is my point here. You have said you hate Andy Murray, fair enough your opinion, but I'd feel a whole lot better if you weren't Admin on the tennis section ans someone took over that never had such a strong view on him then we may get better moderation of wum posts.

Again, you are taking it personally by saying I shouldnt Admin the tennis section just because I dont like one of the players. It does not affect any moderation I do because I dislike Murray.

Should I therefore not Admin the footy section because I hate Man Utd, or motorsport because I dont like Alonso, or boxing because I hate Floyd Mayweather?

Everyone is entitled to their own likes, dislikes and opinions on people. Including Admin.

I am not saying they aren't but surely they are certainly NOT allowed to come out and say they hate someone as you are supposed to be in a position of responsibility. I mean it hardly gives certain fans hope should they turn to you to report a post regarding Andy Murray and hold out hope of getting a swift and proper response. Also it hardly sets an example for other posters that you openly admit to your hatreds on the forum. It undermines your position somewhat should a thorny issue with Andy Murray arise.

All Admin has to do is regulate impartially. Does anyone think that Umpires don't have player preferences? It doesn't matter.

The problem with many posters isn't bias, it's intolerance of opinion.

Yes bogbrush but did the umpire yesterday come out in the papers and say he hated Nadal/Djokovic. Of course not and so he cones across as completely impartial but YI Man does not now that he has cone out with his hatred of Murray.

Craig, if a post is reported because somebody is having a go at Murray without resorting to abuse, then it will be allowed to stay whoever deals with it.

I like Murray, but if people want to criticise him then that is their right on this forum and if I dealt with a report I would allow it to stand. The same goes for every other tennis player.

The rule is that everyone is entitled to voice their opinion, including mods and admin, whether positive or negative providing it is not abusive. That isn't going to change.

And I can assure you that I always act impartial when it comes to moderating and always put my personal preferences to one side. As I have done on numerous occasions.

Also, as I like Murray and always want him to win should I not be allowed to be an admin for tennis?

If somebody pro-Murray is abusive towards another member, do you think I will be unable to rationally deal with it due to my support of Murray?

bogbrush wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:

Wooffie wrote:Haddie

Please keep on popping on by cos of PMs and stuff. I know Denz can get hold of you anyhow. We've come this far as our little gang and enjoy each other's company. There's always a way.

Ill pop my head in from time to time Wooffie... just to see how you all are..But I feel the same as when I left 606.. Hey girls we are better than this place and we deserve better.In the meantime you take care of yourselves ....and have great summer Luv ya

Yeah, suggesting "ROLL ON TO HIS RETIREMENT" for Federer makes you "better".

Pot and kettle.

O so you do read Rafachat after alll .... roll on his retirement ... Kettle pot... there is one thing disliking someone quite another the things you and he post on here about Nadal...

Anyway as I say I dont give a toss.. I leave 606v2 with the dregs like those you entertain. But in futurte 606v2 dont put yourself on a pedestal proporting to be better than 606 because you most definite are not.

I may be mistaken but Rafa seemed to be running around to play his forehand whereas in the past he would have been playing his sublime "double" handed backhand (which has been described as a second forehand considering he is naturally right handed).

Haddie-nuff wrote:Anyway as I say I dont give a toss.. I leave 606v2 with the dregs like those you entertain. But in futurte 606v2 dont put yourself on a pedestal proporting to be better than 606 because you most definite are not.

Of course we are better than 606. That doesn't exist anymore, we do.

With regard to admin and related on these boards I would say it has a masculine rather than a feminine style.

We'll decorate it with some chintz for you

There seems to be some strong words and opinions stressed.

I for one would like to say the following:

This is a relatively new website. This was created by people who are clearly passionate about debating and discussing sport as well as other means of entertainment. And even has an off topic thread for people just to speak their mind, within reason of course. Anyone who joins this website does as a 'new' member with a clean slate. No matter what their behaviour has been on other websites or how they conduct their views. This is fair. Everyone is entitled to a chance on a new website.

The people that have created this website and maintain it do it out of their own free time without being paid a single penny.

People are entitled to voice their opinion. As demonstrated by YI Man and Enforcer as an example. One likes Andy Murray and the other doesn't. No use of logic and both views and opinions have been accepted by both parties. If people choose to use a means of logic to voice their opinions, that is fine, if their logic is challenged and percieved to be flawed, they are the ones that will look foolish and that in itself is a reasonable discussion. If people choose not to use logic to validate their point, even better as it doesn't cause disruption if they are acknowledging that.

I am a fan of tennis. I like all the players on tour. I support Andy Murray in every tournament because I am a fan. I don't love or hate players (seems an extreme emotion to display for people that we don't know personally) and nor do I dislike players. I may not agree of the decisions or actions that players make, but again that is their choice and they are the ones that live with it. I love the game of tennis more importantly. I like to see good tennis. If Murray loses, so be it. For me I look forward as he would.

I accept there are people that don't like Murray. Like I accept there are people that like Murray. I just wish that some posters and fans can at times show respect for all the players and the game of tennis at times no matter how much they are dying to express their opinions. But that is something i can't enforce.

So as a fan, poster and moderator I do ask that ALL posters debate respectfully.

Fine enough YI Man if you can remain impartial however the point I am making is that you have pointed out you hate Murray so it just means that should a point come when I need to report a post (not my style mind) about Andy Murray-related stuff I'd sooner report it to another Admin.

Craig - you don't seem to be reading what the other mods/admins are saying. If you report a post and it breaks rules, it will be dealt with. If it doesn't break rules it will have no effect. Simple. It doesn't make any difference who we like or dislike

Y I Man wrote:

I cant stand Murray, I hope he loses every match. I've never liked him and I never will.

ROFL! I didn't know that, YI.

You'd get on well with my father-in-law.....he can't stand Murray, either. You should hear some of the things he says about him......normally I could defend Andy but can't say much to my FIL.....as I have to think of my inheritance.

Anyway, I can't stop.......I've been away for a couple of days and I'm just catching up on the goings on on the tennis forum........happy days!

Solerina

If my judgement is bias then Craig, why has there been no issues or complaints against me dealing with reported posts or articles in the passed 5 months? Why all of a sudden is my judgement clouded just because i've declared I dont like Murray?

I think the last 5 months shows I am impartial when it comes to moderating.

If you are taking that approach then I assume you will not report a post to Enforcer either as he likes Murray, and in your book that will affect his judgement when dealing with a post made by a pro Murray supporter which has been reported?

Its pretty simple. If a post breaks the site rules it will be dealt with. It makes no difference who posted it, whether its posted by a Murray fan, a Rafa fan or whoever, the action taken will always be the same.

If you refuse to accept that, then that is your choice.

Haddie-nuff wrote:legend... you should know that there will always be a little sneeky hole for Federer to get out of... ROLL ON HIS RETIREMENT

Nasty nasty

What's happened to our Rafachat thread?

Any Rafateers out there, this is for you. Hope everyone is okay and not feeling too sad. I have no doubt Rafa will come back stronger than ever. Remember the dark days of 2009 and what then followed. He's had a great year so far, so once he steps back from it and the recent disappointments, has some time off and gets some much needed rest, he'll be back and hungry and we'll be there

Hey CC.

It did get a bit chaotic earlier. Had peek when I got back from work and saw lots had been posted.

I hope everyone is having a good day.

Hello Cats and LK. I've been popping in and out all day, but not posting. I thought I'd try and let the emotion from all sides die down a bit first.

Yes, I'm still sad, but to paraphrase Rafa, if you can't deal with the losses, you shouldn't follow sport. Hope he's back on his island now and enjoying some sunshine.

All I can say now is that I was very surprised. Very surprised indeed to see all the heavies piling into this nice genteel place. I thought the fans threads would be protected from the heavy booted mob.

Apologies Rafa fans if I upset anyone with my views but I had to get it off my chest. Sorry it had to be here.

Craig

Love the new title. But does that mean we are only serving tea now?

Cats....Womble...Angie...Rafan....Haddie You all have mail

Morning Denzy. I can't check Gmail at work, but will do so when I get home this evening.

If anyone wants cheering up, read the WSJ article that Miri has included in yesterday's Rafalint on NN.

There are simply no words to describe my thoughts when I saw Novak singing and dancing on a stage in Serbia. Yes, it looked as though he was having a great time, but Andy, if you do win a slam (and I hope you do, just not at Rafa's expense), please don't do it.

Don't you think that the exuberant celebrations are due to the fact that it is just so good for Serbia to be able to be in the world news with a wonderful athlete winning a prestigious tournament, after all the horror and turmoil of recent decades, not to mention the unwelcome revisiting of such horrors with recent arrest of Mladic?

So many of these things are cultural - Federer is loathed by a lot of Rafa fans because he is quite typically Swiss (just like my mother) - they are very honest about themselves and others, quite reserved and don't really understand false modesty - Rafa on the other hand has very charming well brought up Spanish manners, but his on court bravado tells you that his self deprecatory comments on occasion are just that, manners, not what he actually believes. Dear Andy - well, I rest my case!

Time, I understand the exhuberance of the crowd, certainly, just not the Novak singing/dancing bit.

I'm not sure that there are many Rafa fans that "loathe" Federer. I don't. I think he's a truely fabulous player. It's just that I've always preferred Rafa's brand of excitement filled tennis to Roger's artistry.

My, my, my ... it really is "open season" now on Nadal, isn't it? Even on a pub-style chat thread specifically designed for his own fans.

Nole is an extrovert both at work and play, and I suspect a lot of fun. Rafa is extremely extrovert on court with exaggerated fist pumps and macho posturing and rather introverted (or under Toni's thumb) seemingly, off it. Federer has worked hard to keep his temper under control with zen like calm (mostly!! ) on court - we all appreciate and are irritated by different things, it's a gladiatorial sport, after all.

I don't much care for either Rafa or Nole knees up to chest and exaggerated celebrations on court at certain points, (I prefer Fed's quiet fist clench to self) but it all seems to have become part of the sport sadly - and is taken by some to be "peacock like behaviour" just as much as you find Nole dancing amongst his countrymen irritating. They are all very young (even the old man!) and Nole has really worked and waited for this - as has Serbia and both deserve their celebrations imo

No, Wooffie, it is not open season on Nadal - I posted in response to Womble's post about Nole's celebrations.

I didn't realise that wasn't acceptable on a Rafa fan thread - apologies!

Hola Cats and Womble , Rafateers and friends that come in peace!

That was a great article posted on NadalNews, thanks for drawing it to my attention Womble. It is that thing of meeting triumph and disaster and treating each one the same (apologies if some of that is wrong). Losing a tennis match isn't really a disaster, but I thought Rafa dealt with it well, and his on-court interview at the end was gracious and charming as ever – particularly given the non-working microphones (get it right Beeb!!!). There is of course much more to catch up on – like the BBC studio interview – but I thought I'd give it a couple of days before delving into all of that.

Regardless though, I enjoyed Wimbledon up to that point – had a couple of great days there and fun time with friends as always.

Denzy, I didn't get chance to check my gmail last night but will look tonight.

I'd also just like to say how lovely Rafa was with the young boy with Down's Syndrome at the net on Sunday, before and after the coin toss. It may be because I've got hormones, which I know freaks some posters out, but his warmth is one of things I love about Rafa.

Now…where are those pictures of Rafa in his latest pair of checked shorts :run2:

Ok Time, let's just agree to disagree about our favourite tennis players and their behaviour. If we all liked the same one best, tournaments could become a bit boring. I didn't say I found Novak's celebrations irritating. I just thought it was bizarre, but probably in line with his extrovert nature, as you say.

Hello Rafan. Maybe it's the perspective of another 24 hours having gone, but I've really perked up today. I can't believe how depressed I was yesterday morning about a guy I've never met losing a tennis match. I am a very sad case and probably need to get a grip.

Funny thing Womble, I felt more sad during the match than afterwards, and actually felt quite perky yesterday. Sometimes it's a relief when these things are actually over, and there's only ever going to be one set of fans that are left happy, and this time it wasn't us. Let's take ourselves back to the US Open last year when we thought that anything on top of the career Golden Slam would be a bonus. Seems like a long time ago

By the way, I love the new thread title Wooffs – that is turning something negative into something positive. Good call!

More tea, vicar?