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Welsh Rugby World Cup Squad 606 genius selection panel... WRU please take note

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 7:52 am

THanks for all your input lads, really enjoyed debating and reading your thoughts, hope you all have enjoyed as much as me. May it continue...

so so far we have the following...


Props

Adam Jones
Craig Mitchell
Paul James
Gethin Jenkins

Hooker

Matthew Rees (Captain)
Richard Hibbard - injury permitting unfortunately... 50-50 from the inside info by JB
Lloyd Burns

Locks

AW Jones
Luke Charteris
Bradley Davies
Ryan Jones


Back Row

Sam Warburton
Martyn Williams
Toby Faletau
Dan Lydiate
Gareth Delve
(Josh Turnbull) pending on whether we go for extra backs or forwards

What are your thoughts


Last edited by maestegmafia on Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:12 am; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 Jul 2011, 7:54 am

I'd be very happy if those were our forwards for the World Cup.

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Post by dogtooth Wed 06 Jul 2011, 7:56 am

it would be hard to choose a bad pack from those players.
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Post by red_stag Wed 06 Jul 2011, 7:58 am

You picked too many backrows.
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Post by pete (buachaill on eirne) Wed 06 Jul 2011, 7:59 am

Could be a 17-13 split

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 06 Jul 2011, 8:00 am

That's a good selection.

My only thought would be to put Josh Turnbull in brackets pending discussion of the backs. Not sure you need him, Williams and Warburton, and you may feel that the extra back would be more useful.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 06 Jul 2011, 8:08 am

If you had to drop a backrower wouldn't Williams be a better choice to be dropped. Turnbull is capable of playing from 4 through to 8, is younger, faster and fitter. That said Martyn Williams is Martyn Williams and on that ground will either start or be on the bench for SA, Fiji and Samoa (and the QF if we make it).
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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 06 Jul 2011, 8:21 am

To be honest, I think Turnbull ahead of Williams has merits. I was going with experience ahead of form, but as you say, Turnbull is certainly physically the more impressive player, and Wales aren't short of physical opponents.

I guess that decision can be trusted to the Welsh coaches who will have a better read on the sort of shape that Williams is in during the pre-camp. If he can't deliver over 80 minutes, then he shouldn't be going.

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Post by red_stag Wed 06 Jul 2011, 8:22 am

pete (buachaill on eirne) wrote:Could be a 17-13 split

Still though don't forget Ryan Jones is a backrow too.
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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 06 Jul 2011, 8:24 am

FES - I just looked at the vote, it is Williams (10%) going and Turnbull (7%) as first reserve
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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 Jul 2011, 8:26 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:If (Martyn Williams) can't deliver over 80 minutes, then he shouldn't be going.

That's not necessarily so - they could use him off the bench. But if I had to choose between the two, I'd take Josh Turnbull. To use a cliche, age is catching up with Martyn Williams.

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Post by welshy824 Wed 06 Jul 2011, 9:06 am

would be very happy with that forward pack, the problem is though that its the backs in which we have the problem, i mean fair play to Gatland he has certainly improved our forwards with set plays and everything. And for past few seasons we havent been bullied around the forwards like wales used to

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:16 am

luckless_pedestrian wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:If (Martyn Williams) can't deliver over 80 minutes, then he shouldn't be going.

That's not necessarily so - they could use him off the bench. But if I had to choose between the two, I'd take Josh Turnbull. To use a cliche, age is catching up with Martyn Williams.

I thought Martyn Williams had a good season. He would add experience this would be his fourth RWC. We don't have too much experience if we start dropping players like him for guys with only a couple of bench caps.

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:17 am

luckless_pedestrian wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:If (Martyn Williams) can't deliver over 80 minutes, then he shouldn't be going.

That's not necessarily so - they could use him off the bench. But if I had to choose between the two, I'd take Josh Turnbull. To use a cliche, age is catching up with Martyn Williams.

I thought Martyn Williams had a good season. He would add experience this would be his fourth RWC. We don't have too much experience if we start dropping players like him for guys with only a couple of bench caps.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:36 am

There's no doubt he would add experience, and his mind's as sharp as it ever was - but his actions are slower.

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:44 am

luckless_pedestrian wrote:There's no doubt he would add experience, and his mind's as sharp as it ever was - but his actions are slower.
I thought he looked very canny this year, maybe lost a yard of pace but possibly makes up for that in old age nowse.

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Post by ScarletSpiderman Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:46 am

The problem is it seems (in my opinion) that his pen count has risen exponentially, whether that is just me noticing it now or him getting caught out more I don't know
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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:50 am

ScarletSpiderman wrote:The problem is it seems (in my opinion) that his pen count has risen exponentially, whether that is just me noticing it now or him getting caught out more I don't know

There is a lot to be said about getting regular matches. And Martyn Williams has been second fiddle for the first time in his fifteen year career, to Sam Warburton.

In the vote we saw most internet pundits on 606 see Williams as the second choice openside in their selections, i think that is a good case for our unanimous conclusion.

But I agree with your points.

I would actually be surprised if he didnt make the cut for the squad. If he didnt I would like him to go in a support/coaching/water boy capacity. A great player, great bloke and invaluable to the youngsters.

On a side note I really do see young Tipuric being the man to take us forward at 7, but possibly this RWC is a touch early for him. I would love to be proved wrong.

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:52 am

ScarletSpiderman, it was his penalty count that I was getting at. He's just that fraction slower and he gets pinged as a result.

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 10:57 am

luckless_pedestrian wrote:ScarletSpiderman, it was his penalty count that I was getting at. He's just that fraction slower and he gets pinged as a result.

That could be a case of the rules too, I noticed Richie McCaw is giving away a few more recently too.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Wed 06 Jul 2011, 11:36 am

luckless_pedestrian wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:If (Martyn Williams) can't deliver over 80 minutes, then he shouldn't be going.

That's not necessarily so - they could use him off the bench. But if I had to choose between the two, I'd take Josh Turnbull. To use a cliche, age is catching up with Martyn Williams.


Warburton shouldn't have to start every game at 7, and I think it's fair to suggest that if Williams is taken ahead of Turnbull, that Williams at the very least be expected to face Namibia and give Warburton a break.

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Post by welshy824 Wed 06 Jul 2011, 11:49 am

is tipuric better than warbuton as Tipuric gets alot of praise but is it him being overhyped as i havent seen him play much, and when i did he didnt do anything "special"

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 11:50 am

funnyExiledScot wrote:
luckless_pedestrian wrote:
funnyExiledScot wrote:If (Martyn Williams) can't deliver over 80 minutes, then he shouldn't be going.

That's not necessarily so - they could use him off the bench. But if I had to choose between the two, I'd take Josh Turnbull. To use a cliche, age is catching up with Martyn Williams.


Warburton shouldn't have to start every game at 7, and I think it's fair to suggest that if Williams is taken ahead of Turnbull, that Williams at the very least be expected to face Namibia and give Warburton a break.

But if you were only thinking of a substitute 7 starter for a pool game against a weakened opposition i would consider Turnbull or Tuperic. They would gain a lot of experience from the environment.

I would rather Williams was there for experience.

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 11:51 am

welshy824 wrote:is tipuric better than warbuton as Tipuric gets alot of praise but is it him being overhyped as i havent seen him play much, and when i did he didnt do anything "special"

he is pretty special, captained the Ospreys a lot this year, different player to Warburton, more in the Williams mold. Great skills fast and clever. Good leader as well.

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Post by welshy824 Wed 06 Jul 2011, 11:58 am

will keep an eye out for him then, will be good if we have two players battling it out for the 7 shirt can only make them better

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 12:07 pm

welshy824 wrote:will keep an eye out for him then, will be good if we have two players battling it out for the 7 shirt can only make them better

Three, Tuperic, Warburton and Turnbull all giving it a good go. Jonathan Edwards at the Scarlets also looks very good too as does Lewis Evans at the Dragons.

From thinking we had no one a year ago, we now have some promise for future talent and depth.

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Post by welshy824 Wed 06 Jul 2011, 12:16 pm

the near future does look bright- grand slam 2012??

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 12:32 pm

welshy824 wrote:the near future does look bright- grand slam 2012??
Several would be great... but lets see how things develop.

I would just like to see Wales give a good account of themselves and to read the fans giving a bit of patience towards the latest developments and results.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 06 Jul 2011, 12:35 pm

mm,

Gr8 set of posts but we all know Bennett will be there and possibly JT Sad
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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 06 Jul 2011, 12:39 pm

Out of that list my set of forwards for the Boks game would be

Jenkins Rees Jones
Davies AWJ
Lydiate Delve Warburton

Bench - James Hibbard R Jones Faletau
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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 12:42 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:mm,

Gr8 set of posts but we all know Bennett will be there and possibly JT Sad

I dont dislike Jonathan Thomas anywhere near as much as you guys do. I thought he had a good season, he is lightweight carrying the ball, but he is athletic, fast and I thought he played very well at eight for Wales and the Ospreys.

Bennet is not great but he isn't as appalling as many people so regularly state, at least he has experience and that does count for a lot. He also has a long time over the next two months to practice throwing line out ball. Something good must come of that.. SURELY....!

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 12:43 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Out of that list my set of forwards for the Boks game would be

Jenkins Rees Jones
Davies AWJ
Lydiate Delve Warburton

Bench - James Hibbard R Jones Faletau

I think along the same lines...

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Post by Luckless Pedestrian Wed 06 Jul 2011, 12:44 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
welshy824 wrote:will keep an eye out for him then, will be good if we have two players battling it out for the 7 shirt can only make them better

Three, Tuperic, Warburton and Turnbull all giving it a good go. Jonathan Edwards at the Scarlets also looks very good too as does Lewis Evans at the Dragons.

From thinking we had no one a year ago, we now have some promise for future talent and depth.

It's quite a turnaround, isn't it? One question is whether the sudden strength we have in the back row was helped by the NWQ back rowers signing for Welsh regions (Holah, Collins, Lyons, Rush) or whether it would have come about sooner without them.

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Post by maestegmafia Wed 06 Jul 2011, 1:01 pm

Hindsight is clear as mud.

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Post by bedfordwelsh Wed 06 Jul 2011, 4:57 pm

It's quite a turnaround, isn't it? One question is whether the sudden strength we have in the back row was helped by the NWQ back rowers signing for Welsh regions (Holah, Collins, Lyons, Rush) or whether it would have come about sooner without them

Last time I looked none of them played for the Dragons yet we have Lydiate and Faletau in the squad and if it wasn't for injury Lewis Evans would have been pushing to ( he will be in mix next season)
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