The Dew Drop Inn Virtual Rugby Pub

Welcome to the virtual rugby pub - a place where you can come in for a sly beverage and discuss whatever's on your mind, or just eavesdrop on the regulars if you fancy a break from all the rugby chat.

The only rule in this pub is one of mutual respect for everyone in it, oh and no defacing the Tommy Bowe photo on the bar. That's a banning offence

So pull up a chair....what'll it be?

I had no idea, Willy. Good question on the BBC live text thingy: if Tim Bresnan goes on to get a century, will they drop him for Chris Tremlett?

"Bresnan made his maiden first-class century in a County Championship match versus Surrey at the Oval whilst playing for Yorkshire. He scored 116 and in doing so, alongside Jason Gillespie, set a record ninth wicket partnership for Yorkshire. The pair put on 246 before Bresnan was stumped off the bowling of Nayan Doshi and on the 13 July 2007, Bresnan scored his second first-class ton for England Lions against a touring Indian team, which included Sachin Tendulkar, Ramesh Powar, and Shanthakumaran Sreesanth. Bresnan scored 116 not out from 156 deliveries in the first day and shared a partnership of 129 with Nottinghamshire bowler Stuart Broad who scored 50."

I don't know how it can be improved but somehow the education system needs to be not completely centred on performance in exams.

hmmm Bresnan or Tremlett....I know from my own personal point of view who I would pick, and it would be nothing to do with their cricketing ability

In all seriousness though, if Bresnan continues playing as he has, I think it would be pretty harsh tod rop him for Tremlett.

MBTGOG wrote:I don't know how it can be improved but somehow the education system needs to be not completely centred on performance in exams.

I think something is being done to try and make certain subjects less exam focused and have more to do with coursework modules spread throughout the whole year that count for more than exams, but I'm not sure that's the answer either. It certainly isn't working very well at the moment though and needs some sort of change to occur.

The other alternative ( continious assessment) has other pitfalls though.

Maybe a 50-50 - continious assessment v exam performance is the way to go.

Do tell, Dreamer!

I'd pick Tremlett every time Lucky. That man has the most amazing shoulders.

Marker.

Lucky: are you attending on Saturday?

Ah and he's gone for 90 fair play to him.

The problem with placing more weight on coursework is that there's nothing to stop parents helping their children to the point of doing some of their work for them. The aim is to test the pupil's ability.

Prop, I hadn't planned on going but then I don't think I've got much else on. It could be a decent way of spending a Saturday!

I'd have gone for Bresnan, Dreamer

Class work?

Shame Bresnan didn't make 100, but if Tremlett is fit he's a very good bowler. Bresnan was solid in the first innings with the ball, but I think he'll need to take more than a couple of wickets to save his place.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:The problem with placing more weight on coursework is that there's nothing to stop parents helping their children to the point of doing some of their work for them. The aim is to test the pupil's ability.

I agree. I also don't like the current trend of "deferred success" They either passed or they didn't.

Ha good stuff Lucky!

Oh no!! I forgot that the canteen won't be open at work cos its a bank holiday. I have literally got 2 slices of bread with a bit of ham between them to keep me going until 6pm when I'll be home.

Update: oh joy I have €1 in my pocket. I can buy a bag of crisps or a bar of chocolate from machine

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Prop, I hadn't planned on going but then I don't think I've got much else on. It could be a decent way of spending a Saturday!

Keep me posted if you decide to, i'm heading there with 3 other guys from my squash league so should be a good craic!!

Stag,that sounds like a fine lunch for me!

It does now that I can get something with the bread and ham Alarm bells were ringing before that though.

red_stag wrote:It does now that I can get something with the bread and ham Alarm bells were ringing before that though.

You just need some Branston or English mustard to go on the ham though.

"I have literally got 2 slices of bread with a bit of ham between them to keep me going until 6pm when I'll be home."

That's all I have most days, with a couple of pieces of fruit.

Bread and ham is grand,if you have good qualiy ham and some wholegrain bread.

nottins wrote:

red_stag wrote:It does now that I can get something with the bread and ham Alarm bells were ringing before that though.

You just need some Branston or English mustard to go on the ham though.

French or Dijon mustard is much nicer

Rava wrote:"I have literally got 2 slices of bread with a bit of ham between them to keep me going until 6pm when I'll be home."

That's all I have most days, with a couple of pieces of fruit.

Yes with fruit I wouldn't bat an eyelid.

I think more weight has to be given to personal statements, references from teachers and interviews with pupils, from Universities and I would say for people going straight from school to work.

In this country, University applications are done by UCAS, and you can apply to six universities. For me, it was pick 6 decent universities and see which ones would have me, but if that was reduced (and maybe more rounds of application were brought in) to 1 or 2, universities would get less applications and could really judge each candidate on their merit, rather than looking at every candidate with decent GCSEs and giving them all offers of AAB or whatever. Make it about the person, not just their exam results. For example, I applied for 6 Unis and got 0 interviews. 3 came back and said yes, 3 came back and said no, without much apparent rhyme or reason as to why.

From my experience, I felt the worst thing was no talk of career development. What do you want to do? Right, that's how you can look to get there. I think not only did I do the wrong course, but maybe University was the wrong choice for me as well. But it was all about do your exams, do your UCAS, get your grades and go to University.

Career advice in school is apalling.

Your good at science and could do ok in other subject = Do Medicene

Your good at English and History = Do Law

You don't know what you want = Do Arts

etc

In my school I found it like that anyway. Very poorly done. Very hasty with no questions about what you want or like.

Completely agree Robbo. We had very little talk about career prospects at school or at Uni. Looking back, I'd have done completely different A-Levels and Uni degree. The gift of hindsight eh?

red_stag wrote:Career advice in school is apalling.

Your good at science and could do ok in other subject = Do Medicene

Your good at English and History = Do Law

You don't know what you want = Do Arts

etc

In my school I found it like that anyway. Very poorly done. Very hasty with no questions about what you want or like.

At school we had a careers advice person. I wanted to be involved in computing/IT. I had a weeks work experience in the computer department of the county council. When it came to what subjects I studied for O level, my form teacher suggested I did English/English Lit/Spanish and French. I dropped the Spanish and did physics and technical drawing.

I don't see why people see University and a degree as the be all and end all. Far too much money has been wasted on people who now work in call centres or doing jobs that have nothing to do with their degree.

Nottins, it was shortsightedness on the part of New Labour in 1997 to declare that they aimed for 50% of school leavers to go to university without trying to make sure there was a corresponding increase in the number of graduate jobs.

Agree Nottins. I have used rugby more than I have used my degree in some ways.

Did my uni thesis on rugby and have got a job that I got due to my knowledge of rugby.

Uni isn't for everyone. My sister is 16 and is thinking about what to do. I suggested that if she isn't sure why go to uni. My parents were horrified by the idea.

I've a pal who REALLY didn't apply himself in school. Got 270 points in leaving cert (thats out of 600). He spend time working in golf clubs and shops. After 2 years he decided to do a law degree. Qualified this year and is hoping to go to Dublin to be a barrister.

Uni only matters so much.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Nottins, it was shortsightedness on the part of New Labour in 1997 to declare that they aimed for 50% of school leavers to go to university without trying to make sure there was a corresponding increase in the number of graduate jobs.

I much prefer stupidy over shortsightedness

Well one or the other, Nottins!

Another thing is that some people aren't ready for university at eighteen.

rugbydreamer wrote: I think something is being done to try and make certain subjects less exam focused

= EASIER

When I was still in school, admittedly when you had forms (EG 1st Form, 2nd Form ,,etc) instead of years (I mean Year 12 WTF ???) it was ALL exams

Then , when I was at college doing my HNC, it was exams and course work. For Statistics I was given, Exam C, Course Work B+. Now I wonder how that happened ?
Oh yes I remember, I was sh!te hot at Ecomonics (Exam B+, Course A-) and my mate wasn't, but he was good at statistics (No it wasn't Huggy and it wasn't those statistics ) He got Exam C, Course Work B+ for his Economics

I think you learn a hell of a lot more from course work than exams.

Schools have become less about teaching the subject, more about teaching you to how to pass an exam in the subject. This promotes not understanding or intellectual insight, but rather memorisation and regurgitation of information en masse which you later forget.

And then, a few moths later, it's all forgotten.

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Well one or the other, Nottins!

Another thing is that some people aren't ready for university at eighteen.

Fully agree. I remember I had the chance to go to university at aged 16 which would have been madness. I really think I would have hated it so much to go there so young.

PenfroPete wrote:

rugbydreamer wrote: I think something is being done to try and make certain subjects less exam focused

= EASIER

I'd disagree with that Penfro, personally I picked my uni courses on the basis of no written exams. And I have two pieces of evidence for the reason. I did P.E A level, got and A in contemporary coursework yet got a U in the exam. With AS Biology I got a B in coursework but again, due to the exam I came out with an E.

I think that some courses are getting easier but also some areas are finally recognising that exams aren't the be all and end all of judging the talent some people have.

nottins wrote:

luckless_pedestrian wrote:Nottins, it was shortsightedness on the part of New Labour in 1997 to declare that they aimed for 50% of school leavers to go to university without trying to make sure there was a corresponding increase in the number of graduate jobs.

I much prefer stupidy over shortsightedness

Ridiculous. And ridiculous that we encourage everybody to go to University aged 18. I think the best thing to do is to go out and get a job after school save some money, and go back to University in your early twenties. Honestly think, nine times out of ten, that's the best age to start Uni. You need a job first to teach you about work ethic and personal responsibility otherwise you won't have the self-discipline and drive to actually get the best out of a University education.

So, so many people are nowhere near mature enough to make the best out of a University education immediately after they they leave school.

In many countries you have to take a year of social work/military service before you can study further.

nottins wrote:
I don't see why people see University and a degree as the be all and end all. Far too much money has been wasted on people who now work in call centres or doing jobs that have nothing to do with their degree.

I think you are forgetting the grant system has long since been abolished nottins. If people haven't made the most of their University education it is more than likely at their own expense and not the goverments.

I did a degree and masters, neither of which I use in my job but I don't think either have been a waste of time or money.

I think New Labour did get it wrong by trying to encourage too many people into University, however I think this goverment are getting it even wrong as well by cutting the University funding and essentially making Unversity education the preserve of the wealthy.

prop_lyd wrote:

I think that some courses are getting easier but also some areas are finally recognising that exams aren't the be all and end all of judging the talent some people have.

Exams are defintely getting easier. We did integration and differentiation at O level, now it is part of A level.

roddersm wrote:
I think you are forgetting the grant system has long since been abolished nottins. If people haven't made the most of their University education it is more than likely at their own expense and not the goverments.

So what are these "student loans" then ? Is that the ones where the full cost of the tuition fee is paid by the Government and the student only has to start paying it off when they start to earn over £15,000 ?

nottins wrote:

roddersm wrote:
I think you are forgetting the grant system has long since been abolished nottins. If people haven't made the most of their University education it is more than likely at their own expense and not the goverments.

So what are these "student loans" then ? Is that the ones where the full cost of the tuition fee is paid by the Government and the student only has to start paying it off when they start to earn over £15,000 ?

£17,000. And yes they are.

A lot of exams nowadays are a mixture of both exam and coursework, some even just based on continuous assessment. Having had a quick look at the conversation is looks to me as it depends on your age-group which aspect is best.

roddersm wrote:

nottins wrote:
I don't see why people see University and a degree as the be all and end all. Far too much money has been wasted on people who now work in call centres or doing jobs that have nothing to do with their degree.

I think you are forgetting the grant system has long since been abolished nottins. If people haven't made the most of their University education it is more than likely at their own expense and not the goverments.

I did a degree and masters, neither of which I use in my job but I don't think either have been a waste of time or money.

I think New Labour did get it wrong by trying to encourage too many people into University, however I think this goverment are getting it even wrong as well by cutting the University funding and essentially making Unversity education the preserve of the wealthy.

Well, what they've done is tripled fees. In the short term, this triples government expenditure in that area because they are the ones paying out the student loans. So they're really relying on the currently very bleak graduate job market to really pick up a lot so they can recoup that because you don't start paying that back until you're earning a certain amount.

At the same time, they're cutting funding to the Universities which is inevitably going to hit undergraduate teaching. So the degrees, which are now more expensive to fund, are actually worth a lot less. Hence the employability of a lot of graduates is going to drop further.

I have ideological problems with their policies on education, but what they've done really doesn't make sense on any level including in terms of basic economics. It's large scale incompetence and social vandalism.

nottins wrote:

roddersm wrote:
I think you are forgetting the grant system has long since been abolished nottins. If people haven't made the most of their University education it is more than likely at their own expense and not the goverments.

So what are these "student loans" then ? Is that the ones where the full cost of the tuition fee is paid by the Government and the student only has to start paying it off when they start to earn over £15,000 ?

There the ones the Tories have tripled, yes. Paying 3 times as much taxpayers money for something that is now worth a lot less- genius

MBTGOG wrote:
£17,000. And yes they are.

I went by the current regulations: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/EducationAndLearning/UniversityAndHigherEducation/StudentFinance/Typesoffinance/DG_171539

I'll keep you posted on the Sevens, Prop

Guys

quick announcement primarily for those Ulster men on here but for everyone as well who may visit Belfast.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Taphouse-Rugby-Club/221744917850611

Is the facebook page for the Rugby fraternity at The Taphouse Bar. I will be updating this with dates and times of fixtures we are showing and drinks offers aswell. This weekend obviously we will show the Scotland v Ireland game with promos on Guinness and other drinks offers to be updated later this week.

If anyone and everyone could like the link i would greatly appreciate and it will purely be rugby updates on your profile and not other things to do with the bar.

Cheers Guys (and special thanks to Stag who has been helpful)