England Squad Update (Players released)

First topic message reminder :

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/other/126508508.html

It has been announced that the following players have been released:

Joe Worsley, George Chuter, Thomas Waldron, David Strettle and James Simpson-Daniel.

So the picture becomes a bit clearer. The three hookers going will be Steve Thompson, Dylan Hartley and Lee Mears.

Mike Browns pretty quick, and a very smart player, but to be honest i'd have had Goode as he can kick for goal etc as well.

If there was an injury at15 it'd be between those two i think. Brown being a like for like replacement with Armitage and Goode being very handy squad cover.

meflanker the biggest problem is will Armitage rediscover his form? If he doesn't......

Yappysnap I agree.

Is Mike Brown quick or slow? Suppose it really depends who you compare him to.

beshocked wrote:meflanker the biggest problem is will Armitage rediscover his form? If he doesn't......

And if Goode was selected it would have been "Can he perform at the next level?"

If it was Brown it would be "Has he improved enough since his last chance? Has his temperament improved enough? Will he get into bother again?"

There're questions over all these players

If only Johnson had picked Cipriani!

TheGreyGhost wrote:

tomathy wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:
Flutey was making Ashton look good in the early stages of the 3N. Watch the Italy game again and note the work that Flutey does in setting up the tries that he runs in/dots down. It's all Flutey. All of it.

They've only played in the same team together once and it was against France in 2010. Flutey didn't play in this year's six nations (which is what I assume you meant)

You know what I meant.

So, you meant that Flutey made the tries for Ashton against Italy in this years 6N ?

How did he manage to do that when his last appearance for England was in 2010 ?

It was Hape wasn't it. Doh. You are right.

Excuse me if I get one rising England star confused with another occassionally. It's just that England is finding so much new talent recently, especially in the centers, that It's easy for a foreigner to lose track of quite which exciting young English lad is filling that space at any given moment.

TheGreyGhost wrote:It was Hape wasn't it. Doh. You are right.

Excuse me if I get one rising England star confused with another occassionally. It's just that England is finding so much new talent recently, especially in the centers, that It's easy for a foreigner to lose track of quite which exciting young English lad is filling that space at any given moment.

As a new member I can't yet post links, but look at the youtube video called "Six Nations 2011 - England v Italy - 12 Feb. 2011"

Ashton's tries are at:
1:35
3:36
4:46
7:18

Hape does give the final pass for the second try. I'll give you that. I can't spot his contribution at all for the other three though. All the defenders must have just been too busy marking him and leaving space for the others.

TheGreyGhost wrote:It was Hape wasn't it. Doh. You are right.

I usually am and you're wrong. Again. The first try was set up by Flood. Hape passed to Ashton about 3 yards out for the 2nd one where he still had to break the tackle of his opposite winger. Flood set up the 3rd try for Cueto. Easter gave the pass to Tindall for the 4th try. Flood passed to Banahan to make the break from which Ashton picked up from the ruck to dive over for the 5th and his 3rd try. Danny Care dummying the pass then a sidestep and cross the line for the 6th try. Haskell took the ball at a standstill outside the 22 and used his pace and skill to score the 7th. For the final try Matt Banahan made the break and pass to Ashton for his run in for the 8th and his 4th try.

You said:

"Flutey was making Ashton look good in the early stages of the 3N. Watch the Italy game again and note the work that Flutey does in setting up the tries that he runs in/dots down. It's all Flutey. All of it."

But you now mean Hape. So the facts are that Hape was involved in just one of Ashton's tries.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Excuse me if I get one rising England star confused with another occassionally.

You seem to be getting him confused with Flood and Banahah, who are I believe rising England stars.

If that's your honest opinion then I fear for your ability to read a game. The try where Hape hands to Ashton near the line is all about Hape. I know that the English commentator is wetting his pants over Ashton dotting down, but frankly it's all about the set up work. My granny could have scored that try from the lead up work.

Any way it's truely sad that you're still going on about a couple of tries against Italy that happened 6 months ago. I'd be more concerned about how Ashton went missing against tougher opposition. His work rate was non-existant and to boot I don't think he made a single tackle in the last two games.

Nottins TGG.

TheGreyGhost wrote:
Any way it's truely sad that you're still going on about a couple of tries against Italy that happened 6 months ago.

greyghost, you were the one who brought up the Italy game when you made your comments about 'Flutey' in the '3Ns'.

Dudes, I've already said. You can't surely expect me to remember which ex-NZ international played in every single B grade tournament that England compete in, surely, do you?

Don't concern yourself SafeAs, he ain't here for the rugby, are you TGG?

every time, he loves it!

TheGreyGhost wrote:If that's your honest opinion then I fear for your ability to read a game. The try where Hape hands to Ashton near the line is all about Hape. I know that the English commentator is wetting his pants over Ashton dotting down, but frankly it's all about the set up work. My granny could have scored that try from the lead up work.

Any way it's truely sad that you're still going on about a couple of tries against Italy that happened 6 months ago. I'd be more concerned about how Ashton went missing against tougher opposition. His work rate was non-existant and to boot I don't think he made a single tackle in the last two games.

I acknowledged that Hape set up that try.

TheGreyGhost wrote:
Flutey was making Ashton look good in the early stages of the 3N. Watch the Italy game again and note the work that Flutey does in setting up the tries that he runs in/dots down. It's all Flutey. All of it.

So it was you that was 'still going on about' those tries. All I did was a). point out that flutey didn't play in that game, and b). when you ammended it to Hape, point out that Hape only had a hand in one of Ashton's tries, so couldn't exactly be credited with all of Ashton's good work that day.

tomathy - in under the posts.

Anyone want to add the extras?

PJ, are you and nottins sharing a bed? or do you just having nothing to offer at all?

I know it's hard for you guys to watch Kiwi discards time and time again lighting up the English backline, while you wait what seems like an eternity for someone born on these shores to figure out how to run a back line. I feel the despair and the desperation among your anxious and defensive posts. If you want to go on believing it's all about Ashton then I clearly won't be able to educate you, all I'll say is that France and Ireland seemed to have read that book he aparently rewrote on wing play, because they kept him very quiet, didn't they?

GG, can't you just admit it that you were wrong about Ashton's tries being all about Hape? You got part way there with the Flutey thing.

I stand by it. I remember having some interesting debates about it at the time, when "Ashton the wonderwing" was being celebrated in the British media for his miracle ability to score against world superpowers Italy.

I recall an inciteful poster predicting he wouldn't score again in the 6N, and that person was right.

TheGreyGhost wrote:I recall an inciteful poster predicting he wouldn't score again in the 6N, and that person was right.

I love Freudian slips!

TheGreyGhost wrote:
Any way it's truely sad that you're still going on about a couple of tries against Italy that happened 6 months ago.

You were the first person to mention it. So I guess it's you who's truely sad ?

If it's such a poor tournament, why do you watch it ?

Curtain raiser for the super season.

TheGreyGhost wrote:PJ, are you and nottins sharing a bed? or do you just having nothing to offer at all?

Well you're not exactly offering anything are you ?

TheGreyGhost wrote:I know it's hard for you guys to watch Kiwi discards time and time again lighting up the English backline, while you wait what seems like an eternity for someone born on these shores to figure out how to run a back line. I feel the despair and the desperation among your anxious and defensive posts. If you want to go on believing it's all about Ashton then I clearly won't be able to educate you, all I'll say is that France and Ireland seemed to have read that book he aparently rewrote on wing play, because they kept him very quiet, didn't they?

I didn't see any NZ discards lighting up the English backline. I feel your despair and desperation to continually try and WUM on here with ill conceived "facts" thats are easily proven as lies.

TheGreyGhost wrote:all I'll say is that France and Ireland seemed to have read that book he aparently rewrote on wing play, because they kept him very quiet, didn't they?

well he had a try (correctly) disallowed against france for a forward pass. the fact that a forward pass was made was just a mistake on england's part and nothing to do with france defending well.

Right. Not French defence. Just him desperately spending the entire game a meter in front of the ball carrier, because he was being marked out of the game.

TheGreyGhost wrote:PJ, are you and nottins sharing a bed? or do you just having nothing to offer at all?

I know it's hard for you guys to watch Kiwi discards time and time again lighting up the English backline, while you wait what seems like an eternity for someone born on these shores to figure out how to run a back line. I feel the despair and the desperation among your anxious and defensive posts. If you want to go on believing it's all about Ashton then I clearly won't be able to educate you, all I'll say is that France and Ireland seemed to have read that book he aparently rewrote on wing play, because they kept him very quiet, didn't they?

TGG, I shouldn't really comment on your sordid little fantasy but clearly Nottins and I wouldn't work in the long run; us being serial givers and you the perennial taker.

Hape wasn't the best 12 at Bath last season, he DID make Banahan look good though - when Banahan took his shirt.

I doubt either of your mercenary bretheren will make England's 1st XV, and suspect one of them wont even make the plane.

Given that you're over here earning your living as well, I reckon you're associated with their guilt by proxy and that's what makes you sit in the dark grinding your bitter little axe night after night. I have no problem with that per se, you do give such excellent entertainment by it after all.

You can't see when you've been utterly defeated, if you weren't able to experience a vicarious existence off the back of NZ's rugby-playing success you'd be a total loser.

Still 10/10 for entertainment.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Right. Not French defence. Just him desperately spending the entire game a meter in front of the ball carrier, because he was being marked out of the game.

the forward pass was actually to ben youngs.

Chalk another one up for tomathy if you please.

PJHolybloke wrote:Chalk another one up for tomathy if you please.

It's like shooting fish in a barrel.

Looks like a small minority are missing the old 606.

I would tell you what it's actually like. But it's not worth the ban.

You're trying to tell me that Ashton did score a try in the games where he didn't? or didn't do his lame little swan dive before finding out that he hadn't scored a try? Or did you forget what you posted two minutes earlier due to whatever is going on in your little mutually congratulatory huddle?

Anyway, I'll let you get back to your irrelevant discussion about which particular re-arrangement of English (they are English I swear) deck chairs will be turned out for the good ship England at the weekend. I guess a fresh coat of black paint might cover some of the cracks for 80 minutes if you're lucky.

Well and truly shown to be wrong on all his recollections of the NZ born England player (Flutey or Hape) not being involved in all the Ashton tries that he said, the WUM beats a hasty retreat wih another lame response.

TheGreyGhost wrote:I would tell you what it's actually like. But it's not worth the ban.

You're trying to tell me that Ashton did score a try in the games where he didn't?

no, i'm just saying that the fact he didn't score a try doesn't mean the french 'marked him out of the game'. he did pop up in a try scoring position but a forward pass from flood to youngs meant it didn't count. youngs and flood didn't have their best games that day so our backs didn't have the best time of it in general. not necessarily ashton's fault.

TheGreyGhost wrote:...or didn't do his lame little swan dive before finding out that he hadn't scored a try?

no i'm not trying to say that. I LITERALLY haven't mentioned anything to do with that at all.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Or are you just so busy fondling each other gathered around your shared keyboard that you've forgotten what you posted 2 minutes earlier?

Coming from the person who had a go at me for 'still going on' about the italy game after you had brought it up yourself.

Yeah, fair enough Tomathy, all decent points well made.

Anyway, good luck against the Welsh. Hope they do the colour proud.

TheGreyGhost wrote:I would tell you what it's actually like. But it's not worth the ban.

You're trying to tell me that Ashton did score a try in the games where he didn't? or didn't do his lame little swan dive before finding out that he hadn't scored a try? Or are you just so busy fondling each other gathered around your shared keyboard that you've forgotten what you posted 2 minutes earlier?

Honestly, I'm not even insulted, that's beneath pathetic to be fair.

As for telling us "what it's actually like"? You'd have to know what it's actually like first, and you're nowhere even close.

You lie like a cheap carpet.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Anyway, I'll let you get back to your irrelevant discussion about which particular re-arrangement of English (they are English I swear) deck chairs will be turned out for the good ship England at the weekend. I guess a fresh coat of black paint might cover some of the cracks for 80 minutes if you're lucky.

But you won't, will you? If there's a thread about English selection why do you have to burst in every single time, ranting 'you're all rubbish, you're all foreign'? Why do you feel the need to do this?

TheGreyGhost wrote:Yeah, fair enough Tomathy, all decent points well made.

Anyway, good luck against the Welsh. Hope they do the colour proud.

thank you (little dig about the kit aside)

SafeAsMilk wrote:But you won't, will you? If there's a thread about English selection why do you have to burst in every single time, ranting 'you're all rubbish, you're all foreign'? Why do you feel the need to do this?

Two very good questions. I was in NZ in 2005 and we had abuse shouted at us when we were wearing our Lions shirts. Invariably they were all 5' 8", weedy and of European descent......

tomathy wrote:

TheGreyGhost wrote:Yeah, fair enough Tomathy, all decent points well made.

Anyway, good luck against the Welsh. Hope they do the colour proud.

thank you (little dig about the kit aside)

Well done that man! Clear concise argument and the manners and good grace to be magnanimous with your defeated enemy.

Take note TGG.... oh, on the other hand - no need, my mistake.

I'm sorry to hear about that Nottins. Unfortunately there are idiots everywhere in the world and NZ is no exception.

Genuine abuse? or just guys trying to have a bit of banter, and lacking the wit to pull it off?

TheGreyGhost wrote:I'm sorry to hear about that Nottins. Unfortunately there are idiots everywhere in the world and NZ is no exception.

Genuine abuse? or just guys trying to have a bit of banter, and lacking the wit to pull it off?

I'm not quite sure, "Fark off Lions" shouted from a passing car in Invercargill is someone having a bit of banter ?

Look, in Invercargill, that's almost foreplay.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Look, in Invercargill, that's almost foreplay.

Why can't you play nice all the time, TGG?

beshocked wrote:
DaveM have you ever watched Saracens play? You and others seem to believe attack is the most important thing. If it was then Saracens wouldn't have won the AP.

Yes, and generally found it slightly disappointing. No doubting the defence, but this England side actually fancies itself to be a decent attacking unit and the Sarries backs get absolutely no opportunity to show they can play attcking rugby.

If Saracens open up next season then more of the backs will appear for England.

In the meantime there is no chance Flutey will be on the plane unless he has shown some form in training and in the warm up games. And if he finds form he's a much better option than either of the admirable but limited duo of Barritt and Allen.

I'd go so far as to say the only chance England have of winning the WC is if Flutey rediscovers his best form.

TheGreyGhost wrote:Look, in Invercargill, that's almost foreplay.

Brian Moore was right about the place.

They also burnt down the hedge near our hotel, errm motel, errm 3rd rate accommodation.

You have to sort of embrace it for what it is, I find.

Are you sure it was the same "they"?I imagine the local council were graciously sacrificing the topiary in an attempt to ensure the visitors were warm.

too be fair they must have gone out of they're way to find a hedge dry enough in june/july,in Invercargill that would burn.

aucklandlaurie wrote: too be fair they must have gone out of they're way to find a hedge dry enough in june/july,in Invercargill that would burn.

It was warm and dry in Invercargill in June 2005.

Sure it was warm and dry - because they set the hedges on fire.

Crikey. Out of interest I just checked historical weather forecasts (slow day) and the Southland game was on 21st June where Invercargill was showing an unseasonably warm low of 9.7 and high of 13.4 with 0 mm of rain recorded at the transparently named "living space" motel.

Now considering that the average temperature in June is closer to freezing, I can only imagine that a lot of hedges were set on fire in honour of the visiting Lions fans.

And you lot said it was like Chernobyl. Now there's gratitude for you. Well fine, but don't expect us to be setting any more hedges on fire for you lot in October if that's going to be your attitude.

nottins wrote:

SafeAsMilk wrote:But you won't, will you? If there's a thread about English selection why do you have to burst in every single time, ranting 'you're all rubbish, you're all foreign'? Why do you feel the need to do this?

Two very good questions. I was in NZ in 2005 and we had abuse shouted at us when we were wearing our Lions shirts. Invariably they were all 5' 8", weedy and of European descent......

Prohbably just bitter about not being eligable to wear the all blacks shirt of England