Ireland v Russia Match Thread

[rodders]

First topic message reminder :

Big game for Ireland here. Ireland could be doing with a big win to keep their momentum going heading into a crunch game with Italy. 10 changes from the Australia game.

[debaters1]

It is, you are excusing a poor decision because 'it wasnt a crucial score/non score'. This wasnt a case of a player going for the million dollar SBW offload or running the ball from their own 22. Leamy mae a line break and failed to ensure the try was scored. Because of the routine nature of what the pass should have been, because he is going to occupy the bench and could be called upon to play and carry for 80mins if domeones chicken is 5mins undercooked. Because it is the mundane that was messed up it is indefensible.

But dont get me wrong, om a Munster fan who has time for Leamy but that was an out and out error, regardless of its significance in the particular match.
I watch a bit of NFL and the coach Bill Belichick has a mantra of 'situational awareness' ; Leamy failed in that respect.

Also not trusting Cronin to catch the ball is a whole other issue, and a serious lack of trust in a teamate.

[Notch]

It's not a big deal it was just poor decision making. He should have passed.

[GunsGerms]

Six nations 2012 ticket prices:

V Wales €75 category 1
V Scotland €65 category 1
V Italy €55 category 1

All prices reduced. Good news.

[rodders]

Hanging onto the ball and recycling it is conservative, its hardly a massive error.

Ha ha how times have changed. If only Paddy Wallace could read this.

[dublin_dave]

haha touche rodders. all we ask for is consistency.

Leamy butchered a try scoring opportunity as did paddy wallace. the fact that one was in a massive game and one was in a game that was long won does not matter to me.

Execution is key. Thats why the All Blacks are so good. Of course they are big strong and fast but their basics are incredibly good. Once they make a line break they score

Lads the 6 nations needs re-invigorating. The quality of games have been poor the last few years. For a start i would propose scrapping sunday games (atmosphere just is not the same) and there must be some way to introduce bonus points. some may argue that it gives the team with 3 home games an advantage but surely having 3 home games is already an advantage.

[Sin é]

I rewatched the move again. First of all it was a decent break. Only reason anyone is making a big deal out of it is because there was a break of play after it and the commentators were filling in chat time. A few minutes previously, Rob Kearney should have offloaded to Andrew Trimble, but didn't and as the play moved on, it wasn't mentioned again. Leamy went to pass it to Cronin, but for some reason we don't know, didn't. Its not as if he completely ignored the presence of Cronin.

No one would remember what Paddy Wallace did if it was half an hour earlier in the match. It was just it was our last chance and there really was no time to recycle the ball as such.

[rodders]

No one would remember what Paddy Wallace did if it was half an hour earlier in the match. It was just it was our last chance and there really was no time to recycle the ball as such.

The ball was recycled but Cronin() knocked on.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Problem at the moment is Sextons kicking from hand/place is poor, his passing is one dimensional and he is a one trick pony (the wraparound is the only attacking ploy he has). He is excellent in defence and can take the ball up himself.

I'll start off by saying I think RoG should start from now on as place kicking is too important to be left to chance.However I can't agree with the statement that Sextons kicking from hand is poor.I can't think of one poor kick he made in the Oz game,his up and unders were perfect and he never allowed Oz to counter attack with a losse kick for territory.

In contrast RoG made 3 bad kicks in the time he was on,one out on the full,one which Cooper marked and then luckily for us made a balls of and one straight down the middle which they made a good counter attack from (I can't remember who started the counter as Kearney made a similar bad kick in the 2nd half).
I think the only difference between them is place kicking but it's so important that RoG has to be 1st choice until Sexton sorts himself out.

I also feel RoG is not given enough credit for his defence and running game as these have both improved beyond measure in the last 2 years,this is unusual as players his age are not known for adding new things to their game.RoG even executed a Leinster loop v Russia,that one had me smiling.

[Sin é]

asoreleftshoulder - Kurt McQuilkin disagrees with you.

But the star of the show was Ronan O'Gara and he was rightly presented with the player of the day award. He had the ball on a string and punished the Russians for not taking those five-meter touchline corridors away from him with those typical spiral skidding kicks.

A recent chink in Sexton's armour has been his kicking out of hand and for goal. That would be seen as a definite "work on" for him at this point in time. O'Gara's master class in kicking against Russia would have only confirmed him as top dog in that department at the moment.

Interesting article and well worth reading for any of you who bring up ROG's weak defence as an issue!

http://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/worldcup/2011/0926/rwc_analysis_kmcquilkin_russia_ireland.html

[asoreleftshoulder]

Thats fine but point out a bad kick from hand from Sexton in the WC and I'll show you 2 from from O'Gara no matter what Kurt McQuilkin says.

[Sin é]

I think that Ireland may have been under more pressure towards the end from Australia and hence relieving kicks rather than attacking kicks like Sexton's up-and-unders. Sexton did very little kicking from hand anyway - Kearney seemed to be doing most of it.

[asoreleftshoulder]

Sexton kicked 7 times to Kearneys 5,O'Gara also kicked 5 of which I think 3 were poor kicks.

http://www.espnscrum.com/2011-rugby-world-cup/rugby/match/93473.html

I'll admit that maybe thats a bit harsh but I'm trying to compare it to Sexton who didn't make any of those type of kicks.
The point about being under pressure doesn't really work for me as 2 of the 3 kicks I picked out were attacking kicks.The up and under was on half way and the kick Cooper marked was just inside their 10 metre line.

[Sin é]

I don't recall any real bad kicks from hand from him tbh (as I don't recall any from Sexton or Kearney either). Maybe you are being a tad too critical.

I think he was talking about the Russian game anyway.

[rodders]

Thats fine but point out a bad kick from hand from Sexton in the WC and I'll show you 2 from from O'Gara no matter what Kurt McQuilkin says.

I can recall at least 3 poor kicks from hand from O'Gara this tournament. The grubber on the USA's 22, an up and under that went in to touch on the half way line against Australia and the cross field kick to Trimble that fell short and straight to the opposition winger. Add the intercept pass and you have 4 potentially costly errors in 3 games. If Sexton did that he'd be slaughtered by the press.

ROG is playing well and his place kicking is miles better than Sextons right now but I really think people are exaggerating how much better ROG is playing compared to Sexton. With the ball in hand I think there isn't much in it and for me ROG's decision making has been questionable over the past few games and almost everyone has ignored it.

People seem to be forgetting that Ireland were winning against both the USA and Australia when ROG entered the fray so Sexton can't be doing that badly. ROG gave us lift because he's a great player but he seems to be getting all the credit and people are ignoring Sextons contribution. It was Sextons drop goal that put us ahead against Australia and his sleight of hand that created the key 1st try for Bowe against the USA.

[asoreleftshoulder]

I don't recall any real bad kicks from hand from him tbh (as I don't recall any from Sexton or Kearney either). Maybe you are being a tad too critical.

I think he was talking about the Russian game anyway.

Well the one against Oz that went straight out was bad,I'm not trying to put him down I'm just trying to dispel the notion that Sexton is kicking badly from hand.

If he was talking about the Russian game thats fine but you brought it up as a counter to my point about O'Gara's poor kicks against Oz.

[Sin é]

Rodders - an intercept pass (that didn't go anywhere) isn't a big deal. Maybe Trimble isn't as good as Horgan, Bowe & Earls for those crossfield kicks. (See to remember Tommy Bowe making a mess of one of those crossfield kicks that Sexton tried which you haven't brought up. I don't think anyone has been saying that was a bad decision by Sexton!

Jeebus, if you were the coach, you'd have them terrified to try anything in case they failed.

I can't figure out how you think trying to score points is worse than leaving points behind (which is what has been happening with Sexton).

All that matters at the end of the day is how many points are on the board.

Even Shane Byrne was critical of Sexton (and he has been one of Sexton's biggest fans on RTE radio yesteday evening) and was marvelling at how well ROG was playing.

[rodders]

Rodders - an intercept pass (that didn't go anywhere) isn't a big deal. Maybe Trimble isn't as good as Horgan, Bowe & Earls for those crossfield kicks. (See to remember Tommy Bowe making a mess of one of those crossfield kicks that Sexton tried which you haven't brought up. I don't think anyone has been saying that was a bad decision by Sexton!

Jeebus, if you were the coach, you'd have them terrified to try anything in case they failed.

I can't figure out how you think trying to score points is worse than leaving points behind (which is what has been happening with Sexton).

All that matters at the end of the day is how many points are on the board.

Even Shane Byrne was critical of Sexton (and he has been one of Sexton's biggest fans on RTE radio yesteday evening) and was marvelling at how well ROG was playing.

Trimble probably isn't as good with the cross kicks as he doesn't have that gaa background. Fair point on the Sexton cross kick. I don't recall it.

I'm not the one who is calling for people to be dropped?

Frankie Sheehan is sticking up for Sexton and Byrne is criticising him. What does that tell us?

[Sin é]

That Frankie wants to be Sexton's agent?

[rodders]

That Frankie wants to be Sexton's agent?

[Notch]

I rewatched the move again. First of all it was a decent break. Only reason anyone is making a big deal out of it is because there was a break of play after it and the commentators were filling in chat time. A few minutes previously, Rob Kearney should have offloaded to Andrew Trimble, but didn't and as the play moved on, it wasn't mentioned again. Leamy went to pass it to Cronin, but for some reason we don't know, didn't. Its not as if he completely ignored the presence of Cronin.

No one would remember what Paddy Wallace did if it was half an hour earlier in the match. It was just it was our last chance and there really was no time to recycle the ball as such.

Yeah you're right, but it was an even clearer cut chance than that. A 2 on 1 basically. I'm not making a big deal of it either.

Let's not start World War 3 over it like; just an observation. We always end up arguing about one incident in a game where thousands of things have happened. It doesn't matter that much.

Anyway, I'm really hoping we go with O'Gara. Lets not beat around the bush, Italy are going to take the game to us up front and it could turn into an ugly game. Accurate place kicking and smart territorial play could be the difference. Plus his all-round game with ball in hand is excellent right now whereas Sexton isn't at the level he's capable of. I feel exactly the same way as I did in Autumn 2009; at that point it was time to bring Sexton in. It's not a reflection on Sexton I want O'Gara to start; I just feel he's the man in form and more importantly, he's the guy with the skillset we need.

I feel the same way about Trimble. We've seen Trimbles pace and power- in a physical game, that will make a big difference. This is not a reflection on Earls who scored two excellent tries against Russia I just feel the backline lacks a ball carrier and it's going to be a physical contest where strike runners could prove to be very important. Again Trimble is in form and deserves a go.

[rodders]

Anyone else getting really nervous about this game? BlueMuff made a valid point earlier that if this one was in the 6N we would expect to win. However there is so much at stake here for both sides.

I've been very impressed with the Azzuri. In fact they look as good as an Italian side as I've seen in a while. The fact that they can win by any margin and qualify makes this a very dangerous game and if they can suck us into a tight arm wrestle we could be in trouble.

I think we need to really come out and attack them from the off. Not out wide but through the middle with O'Brien, Heaslip, Ferris, Healy and Bowe and try and put a few tries on the board early and force them to try and chase the game.

I don't think we can afford to get into a kicking dual with them and play the percentages. We really need to shift their pack around and hope that they tire late on after a 5 day turn around from the USA game.

[Standulstermen]

Rodders

That is it in a nutshell. the Italians are talking this game up and it is making the media and fans jittery. If i were Deccie i would be saying to the players

-they played a blinder against us in the 6N
-it was one of our worst ever performances
-they were at home
-we dont have Poite refereeing this sunday
-WE STILL WON!

I dont care how much Parisse, Castro or any other italian talks up their chances, we are a better team than they are with better players and if we turn up we will win! End of story.
We should go out all guns blazing, take our points, give them a mountain to climb and see how their resolve holds.

we have a better 2nd row, better backrow, better half backs and a better back three. IF they play like it we will win. Lets not let the Italians talk themselves into the game.

[rodders]

Just realised I posted in the wrong thread.

Stand yeah I don't know. I don't think there is that much between the two sides and there are areas were Italy are stronger than us. If we get our tactics wrong or allow them to dictate the pace of the game then we could be in trouble.

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