Wales

by Guest Sun 02 Oct 2011, 7:48 am

First topic message reminder :

We're actually going to win the world cup. I'm not even joking.

by caoimhincentre Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:08 am

apologies. god i did completely forget that game.

no need to get insulting with the anglo thing.

besides that putting any sort of stock into those "warm up"games would be foolish.
just do what i have done and look at form in the world cup

by RubyGuby Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:11 am

Bitter Beer wrote:I'd say Ireland's relative experience will count for a lot and that its at least 60/40 in their favour.

And I'd say Adam Jones and Gethin Jenkins are 2 experienced Lions props who are among the best in the world - Warburton has little to no experience just like George North yet I wouldn't swap them for any Irish players - in fact I wouldn't swap any of our 15 now that Best has gone from the Ireland team - Man for Man I think we are better. A very very poor welsh side beat this Irish side recently, does that count for anything? Probably not. Experience works both ways and whilst Ireland will be really feeling the pressure the young welsh team just can't wait to get out there and play thumbsup

by Bitter Beer Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:12 am

Welsh supporters are hardly immune from making excuses for losing. The term Anglos is derogatory and unecessary.

by Glas a du Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:13 am

The pressure of "we really should beat these"

The Golden generation is getting old.

by RubyGuby Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:14 am

caomin - Lighten up, this is only banter mate and by the look of it we both really fancy our respective sides - nothing wrong with that as its a fair call both ways - I believe we have every reason to be optimistic here and this is one fit, powerful and enthusiatic welsh team who have grown game by game. kiss

by Glas a du Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:17 am

I'd be really nervous if I was England. France have given no inkling yet as to what they are capable of or how they might play.

by caoimhincentre Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:18 am

RubyGuby wrote:caomin - Lighten up, this is only banter mate and by the look of it we both really fancy our respective sides - nothing wrong with that as its a fair call both ways - I believe we have every reason to be optimistic here and this is one fit, powerful and enthusiatic welsh team who have grown game by game.

didnt think i needed to lighten up. maybe read my last post again.

also ireland have one fit, powerful and enthusastic team that has grown game by game who finish top of their group.
the big question. who really has the best form going into the qf. i suppose it depends on how you rate who your country has played already in the world cup

by mankiaow Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:19 am

Great to see the Welsh getting over-excited, as usual.

Even your coach is eyeing up NZ for the final already. Nothing strange in that either.

by Glas a du Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:21 am

Form, what does form tell you? You're only as good as your last match and on that evidence this match is evenly poised and should be a cracker. Even D'arcy is playing half tidy ffs!

by Comfort Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:43 am

Bitter Beer wrote:Welsh supporters are hardly immune from making excuses for losing. The term Anglos is derogatory and unecessary.

"Anglos" -derogatory and unnecessary? Not trying to be on the wind up Bitter, but why do you find it derogatory?

p.s. we're allowed to be confident, but saying things like "we're going to win the cup, no team can stop us now" just looks jubblies, I had a go at a few Irish posters yesterday for saying similar things. Ireland vs Wales is going to be 60/40 either way at very best depending on whether your bloods red or green.

nervous-time vomit

by Glas a du Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:49 am

60/40, 60/40! if only! 50-50

by Bitter Beer Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:50 am

Comfort wrote:
Bitter Beer wrote:Welsh supporters are hardly immune from making excuses for losing. The term Anglos is derogatory and unecessary.

"Anglos" -derogatory and unnecessary? Not trying to be on the wind up Bitter, but why do you find it derogatory?

The term Anglos isn't necessarily derogatory but taken in context, the term was used in an intentionally derogatory manner. And he knows it was.

I reckon its 60/40 to Ireland, having the Lions front row means nothing, the lions were comprehensively beaten in that series. I would fancy the winner to give the victor of the Q/F between England and France a good examination however.

by Comfort Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:58 am

Bitter Beer wrote:The term Anglos isn't necessarily derogatory but taken in context, the term was used in an intentionally derogatory manner. And he knows it was.

Ahhh fair one, i hadnt read back through everything properly.

I reckon its 60/40 to Ireland, having the Lions front row means nothing, the lions were comprehensively beaten in that series. I would fancy the winner to give the victor of the Q/F between England and France a good examination however.

]

I said yesterday the fitness of Rory Best and Dan lydiate were absolutely key for this game.

Unfortunately Rory Best is out with a broken collarbone, thats gutting. Hopefully Lydiates back though, I'd imagine the replacement hooker to be targetted in the scrums very similairly to how Hartley/Stevens targetted Lloyd Burns in the warm-ups causing all sorts of problems for the welsh scrum. it only takes 1 weak link in the front row for a very strong scrum to become completely unset...

I maintain this match is 50/50 and i cant wait! Neither can I for the England France match, neither have really been firing at all but they're both there and those games tend to be heated affairs.

boxing

by caoimhincentre Tue 04 Oct 2011, 11:01 am

comfort best has a sprained AC joint not a broken collar bone. he probably won't make the game. he should be ok if ireland go further

by RubyGuby Tue 04 Oct 2011, 11:03 am

mankiaow wrote:Great to see the Welsh getting over-excited, as usual.

Even your coach is eyeing up NZ for the final already. Nothing strange in that either.

And even better to see others posting like this to illustrate how they are unable to cope with Wales playing well thumbsup

by Comfort Tue 04 Oct 2011, 11:03 am

caoimhincentre wrote:comfort best has a sprained AC joint not a broken collar bone. he probably won't make the game. he should be ok if ireland go further

there i go believing the hype.

still, he'll be missed noticably in the game.

by JDandfries Tue 04 Oct 2011, 11:04 am

Wales will beat Ireland but get turned over by the French in the Semi's

by caoimhincentre Tue 04 Oct 2011, 11:04 am

Comfort wrote:
caoimhincentre wrote:comfort best has a sprained AC joint not a broken collar bone. he probably won't make the game. he should be ok if ireland go further

there i go believing the hype.

still, he'll be missed noticably in the game.

agree. he has never played better for ireland.

by Breadvan Tue 04 Oct 2011, 11:09 am

Narrow loss to SA, unlucky. Dodged a bullet v Samoa, well done. Strolled to victory against two gimmes in Namibia and Fiji. Too close to call for me this Sat. Helluva game tho...

by BlueNote Tue 04 Oct 2011, 11:47 am

RG, you are joking, aren't you? I mean, we would turn down BOD or O'Brien or Heaslip or POC or Kearney...???

by RubyGuby Tue 04 Oct 2011, 12:16 pm

I'm not joking BN - Maybe Obrien but not the others now, Kearney FFS, what's that all abouy, his career has mirrored Byrnes with both of them going from the sublime to the average. Remember, all those Irish lads played in Cardiff recently and they were rubbish - so were we but I haven't seen Toby, Warburton and Lydiate play that bad together yet. I would not swap. This games to close to call
thumbsup

by BlueNote Tue 04 Oct 2011, 12:23 pm

We'll have to agree to differ there, RG!

I have a feeling Faletau may look underpowered against that Irish back row. I will feel a lot better about the physical contest if we have a fit Dan Lydiate, though.

A lot of worries, for me, for example:

Kick-off return (rubbish vs Fiji despite lots of practice), lineout (ditto), ball-carrier getting isolated (happened a lot in latter part of 1st half vs Fiji), Ireland getting away with the first defender at the tackle running beyond the tackle to stop supporting players getting to the tackle area so they can turn the ball over (which all teams have been doing to some extent but Ireland will do better than us).

by RubyGuby Tue 04 Oct 2011, 12:34 pm

I'm more than happy to differ here. We would have put 50 on the USA not limped past them. Stop worrying thumbsup

by GunsGerms Tue 04 Oct 2011, 1:21 pm

miaow wrote:That's fair enough, Roll, but it doesn't take into account the fact that Wales are going to beat Ireland quite comfortably having the ability to score tries from 1 to 15, something Ireland lack.

Based on what evidence can Ireland not score from a variety of positions? The only positions not to have scored tries for Ireland at this WC are second row or out half. In fact Irelands tries have come from a wide range of positions whereas Wales' have mostly come from the backs.

The question is will the Welsh backs get enough ball on Saturday?

by BlueNote Tue 04 Oct 2011, 1:41 pm

"Wales are going to beat Ireland quite comfortably" - guys, come on, that just is not going to happen!

by **rodders** Tue 04 Oct 2011, 1:46 pm

miaow wrote:Wales are going to beat Ireland quite comfortably having the ability to score tries from 1 to 15, something Ireland lack.

The only thing Wales are going to find comfortable this weekend are the seats on the flight home on Sunday..... Yahoo

by **Biltong** Tue 04 Oct 2011, 2:38 pm

Yeah, rushing back home to run down that hill and jump over that fence. Ok!

by maestegmafia Tue 04 Oct 2011, 2:46 pm

leinsterbaby wrote:
The question is will the Welsh backs get enough ball on Saturday?

We know that the game will be all about the forward battle. I really am not sure who has the upper hand here as both sides have improved so remarkably since they met in the Six Nations.

I would say that if Ireland is leading or only a few points behind by the 50th minute will win. But if Wales can impose themselves from the start, Ireland will really struggle to keep up the pace.

Very sad to see Best on his way home. A quality player and I dont think Ireland have the depth to replace him. Irelands front row has become as much of a weapon as their Second and Back row, but this could prove a real chink in their armour that Wales may be able to exploit in the Scrum and line out.

Wales also have a stronger defence, particularly around the inside backs.

The most worrying thing about Ireland is O'Driscoll's ability to turn over ball in the outside backs. Once Ireland take a lead it will be incredibly hard for Wales to claw back into the game.

Cant wait for the game. Wales are at their best, with their best players, if Ireland win they will surely be very deserved semi finalists or hopefully even finalists.

by mankiaow Tue 04 Oct 2011, 3:51 pm

RubyGuby wrote:
mankiaow wrote:Great to see the Welsh getting over-excited, as usual.

Even your coach is eyeing up NZ for the final already. Nothing strange in that either.

And even better to see others posting like this to illustrate how they are unable to cope with Wales playing well

I think Ireland will cope quite comfortably with anything Wales throw at them, which is the important thing.

I just have to wonder about some of your observations. How, for example can 'a very very poor Welsh team' become world-beaters in the space of six months?

by andy powells minder Tue 04 Oct 2011, 3:55 pm

mankiaow wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:
mankiaow wrote:Great to see the Welsh getting over-excited, as usual.

Even your coach is eyeing up NZ for the final already. Nothing strange in that either.

And even better to see others posting like this to illustrate how they are unable to cope with Wales playing well

I think Ireland will cope quite comfortably with anything Wales throw at them, which is the important thing.

I just have to wonder about some of your observations. How, for example can 'a very very poor Welsh team' become world-beaters in the space of six months?

Aaaahhhhhhhhhhh....................now THAT would be telling!!!!

Very Happy

by Glas a du Tue 04 Oct 2011, 4:24 pm

Belief.

by mankiaow Tue 04 Oct 2011, 4:27 pm

You mean.....it was all just a ruse? That whole underperforming in the 6n thing. And I'll bet you didn't even want that dodgy try.... the pesky ballboy wasn't in on the deal.

by Glas a du Tue 04 Oct 2011, 7:35 pm

Sright

by Cymroglan Tue 04 Oct 2011, 9:15 pm

When you are confident in your own team you really don't need to look for weaknesses in the opposition.

by TycroesOsprey Tue 04 Oct 2011, 10:16 pm

Glas a du wrote:There would be poetry about a final with SA, but poets are usually crap rugby players.

Carwyn James? excellent outside half but even better as a coach, competed in the Eisteddfod and was president of the day at the national in the 70s.

by Glas a du Wed 05 Oct 2011, 6:54 am

One example is the exception that proves the rule Tycroes. And why aren't you a Scarlet, you vote for the Llanelli MP!

by TycroesOsprey Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:43 pm

lol glas you were up early.Three good reasons,

My Uncle was an All White in the thirties so would go to St Helens with him and my grandfather as a child tho I have a feeling my grandad had a couple of games for the scarlets.

I went to secondary school in swansea for a bit and played for schoolboys and the uplands rather than llanelli district sides.

I also went to Christ College and most of our rivals ended up in llanelli.

However the rest of my family are as scarlet as any one eyed rugby fan youll find down at PYS. That has led to memorable victories where I have sat in the Home supporters stand in Stradey supporting the whites surrounded by disgusted family members some of whom were sponsering the match.

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:45 pm

Tycroes I hate to be the bearer of this news mate but you are at an elevated risk of developing schizophrenia with that family experience thumbsup

Come on the ScarSpreys!!! I hear you shout Yahoo

by TycroesOsprey Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:52 pm

funnily enough you see as many Ospreys tops as scarlets in the local club these days. Tycroes RFC is a scarlets club despite that but as an area it seems ospreys support is growing.

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:55 pm

I'm from Glynneath Tycroes and all you see there are Chelsea and Utd shirts Crying or Very sad

by TycroesOsprey Wed 05 Oct 2011, 12:57 pm

Thats a shame, but is that more to do with cuddy and his anti neath attitude rather than a lack of support for rugby?

by RubyGuby Wed 05 Oct 2011, 1:12 pm

Just kidding, lots of Ospreys shirts everywhere, I live in Cornwall and both my lads (5 and 12) have O's shirts but we like all the regions and tend not to go for the tribal stuff - Cuddy is of course a Glynneath boy so you can make of that what you want - he aint all bad though thumbsup

by GunsGerms Wed 05 Oct 2011, 8:29 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Just kidding, lots of Ospreys shirts everywhere, I live in Cornwall and both my lads (5 and 12) have O's shirts but we like all the regions and tend not to go for the tribal stuff - Cuddy is of course a Glynneath boy so you can make of that what you want - he aint all bad though

Just watching a programme on Cornwall. Looks like a nice place as hard as it is for me to say so. Great surfing too.

by maestegmafia Wed 05 Oct 2011, 10:19 pm

Would love to hear some of the reasons that Poll voters who voted a definitive NO, think that Wales have no chance of winning the RWC...?

by Guest Wed 05 Oct 2011, 11:27 pm

[quote="mankiaow"][quote="RubyGuby"]

mankiaow wrote:How, for example can 'a very very poor Welsh team' become world-beaters in the space of six months?

An overhaul of everything that Gatland's stuttering regime had been over the last twelve months.

Removed the dead wood (Jon Thomas etc.), challenged certain players who seemed nailed on starters (SJ, Byrne, AWJ, Hook), and brought in several new, young, professional rugby players who not only brought better standard of rugby, but a better attitude off the pitch as well.

Gatland was given the extended three month period he really needed to build these boys up so they bought into his strategy; it is clear that few weeks and back to the regions approach during the 6N and AI meant everything was quickly forgotten in the past. He worked on them and, with this frsheness and competition rife in the squad, everyone banded together as a squad and became the modern, ultra professional outfit Gatland has been trying to create since he took over.

He also made them superfit. This allowed them to move on the gameplan from the stodgy, turgid approach we have shown at times under Warren; we had the fitness to nail the basics (tackle completion, not conceding penalties, competing at breakdown) which we did not before, and, as the basics were done well, we could move on and play the expansive game we all know and love but with the forward pack and abrasiveness that is so often missing in Welsh rugby.

It didn't help that we were also underperforming in the sense that the players were much better than what they were collecetively producing...as we're seeing now. We're certainly no world beaters, but the performances put in for Wales should leave Welsh fans with no reason to doubt that, from this point, we could conceivably beat Ireland and England/France and be in a world cup final. And, finally, the hideously overused saying 'on our day' would be true if that were to transpire...such an exciting prospect. COME ON WALES!

by mankiaow Thu 06 Oct 2011, 4:39 am

Ok, sounds good. But if you take it in context; every team has had the same time and opportunities to get themselves in shape, introduce new players, try out new moves and eradicate silly mistakes. Any team that is not at the peak of it’s powers is going to find that the stakes are much higher.

You can talk about fitness levels, make player/unit comparisons and preparedness until you are blue in the face. Many teams underperformed pre-WC and many have shown substantial improvement.

Both teams are, and should be, performing at a higher level. The bar has been raised. Both will turn up on Saturday, well prepared and highly motivated.
But what will be the difference between winning and losing? For me it will come down to 2 things: Tactics and experience. In both aspects I feel Ireland have the advantage. Wales may well be fitter and more precise then they were, but so are Ireland. Ireland have the ability to control games and adapt to what is happening in the heat of battle, something which they do better than Wales. Kidney has proven himself to be a master tactician and has the rub over Gatland.

In comparing both countries games versus SH opposition, in the group stage, Wales were ahead and lost, and Ireland closed out the match. Therein lies the difference. Ireland’s players are constantly being dismissed as too old or on their last legs but the experience they bring is invaluable. These players also have the important psychological advantage of a superior win/loss ratio over Welsh teams at International and domestic level.
So when it comes down to squeaky bum time, if indeed it does, who would your money be on?

by Gatts Thu 06 Oct 2011, 4:51 am

mankiaow wrote:Ok, sounds good. But if you take it in context; every team has had the same time and opportunities to get themselves in shape, introduce new players, try out new moves and eradicate silly mistakes. Any team that is not at the peak of it’s powers is going to find that the stakes are much higher.

You can talk about fitness levels, make player/unit comparisons and preparedness until you are blue in the face. Many teams underperformed pre-WC and many have shown substantial improvement.

Both teams are, and should be, performing at a higher level. The bar has been raised. Both will turn up on Saturday, well prepared and highly motivated.
But what will be the difference between winning and losing? For me it will come down to 2 things: Tactics and experience. In both aspects I feel Ireland have the advantage. Wales may well be fitter and more precise then they were, but so are Ireland. Ireland have the ability to control games and adapt to what is happening in the heat of battle, something which they do better than Wales. Kidney has proven himself to be a master tactician and has the rub over Gatland.

In comparing both countries games versus SH opposition, in the group stage, Wales were ahead and lost, and Ireland closed out the match. Therein lies the difference. Ireland’s players are constantly being dismissed as too old or on their last legs but the experience they bring is invaluable. These players also have the important psychological advantage of a superior win/loss ratio over Welsh teams at International and domestic level.
So when it comes down to squeaky bum time, if indeed it does, who would your money be on?

Just can't call it! I now think ireland's losses in the summer and lacklustre perf v USA was all some Irish ruse de guerre.

by mankiaow Thu 06 Oct 2011, 5:22 am

Good point. It would be churlish to dismiss the warm-up games, although I'm not sure there was any conscious intention to try to decieve the opposition.

The USA game was played in atrocious conditions and the team were not too disappointed with the performance. I don't think a viable judgement can be made comparing performances against lower ranked teams.

I think, when trying to make an objective argument, it is important to focus on the oppositions strengths versus those of your own team's, which is what I'm trying to do. The best, most recent examples are against top class opposition, when the chips are down.

Many people seem to be sitting on the fence. I am just explaining why I am not.

by Guest Thu 06 Oct 2011, 10:16 am

mankiaow wrote:
But what will be the difference between winning and losing? For me it will come down to 2 things: Tactics and experience.

Well, no, and that's the point. You hope that tactics and experience will be the two deciding factors, but only because Ireland would have the advantage in the latter.

The only difference between winning and losing is who puts the most points on the board. And you know it. Any such speculation is pointless. It could be just as correct (and pointless) to speculate that, as it will be a physical game, fitness will be key, so Wales will probably finish the game thestronger and go on and win it. Or it could be that goal kicking will be key. Or whoever scores the most tries. All that matters will be who scores the most points. These are two very evenly matched games, and if you think that the scraped win against Australia (and Wales' scraped loss against SA) will count for anything on Saturday, you're sadly mistaken...

by **Biltong** Thu 06 Oct 2011, 10:19 am

I often wonder how does one measure fitness before a match, or rather suggest that one team is fitter than another. This is professional rugby, all teams are fit.

Granted wales feels that this has been their best prepration ever before a RWC, but how does one suggest one team will be fitter than another?

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