Button's kick off with the media

First topic message reminder :

Jenson Button let his temper flare after finishing behind Sebastian Vettel in India and moving closer to sealing second place in the 2011 championship.

Yet again, despite his run of good form, the 2009 world champion was probed by British reporters about the crashes and antics of his teammate Lewis Hamilton.

Asked about Hamilton's latest row with Felipe Massa, Button blasted: "I don't give a ***.

"If you want to do an interview with me, about me, that's fine," he charged. "But I don't want to be asked about Lewis again. It's doing my head in."

Privately, Button is enjoying his dominance inside the McLaren team at present, after critics once ridiculed his decision to leave Brawn for Hamilton's "lion's den".

"That is the challenge I wanted when I came here. I wanted to find out where I really stand compared to Lewis," he said in India.

And with the likes of Ferrari's Fernando Alonso also behind him in 2011, Button admitted that finishing second behind Vettel this season is no mean feat.

"To finish second in this championship would mean something,"

http://www.motorsport.com/all/news/f1-button-rages-at-questions-over-hamilton-antics/?v=2&s=1&i=9

wow wrote:

Critical_mass wrote:lol - no go read again. infact here it is

"Hamilton has just been lucky to have an opportunity to drive a faster car since the start of his career. IMO he is no better than Rosberg, Sutil or for that matter Koboyashi."

You didnt even imply that you meant if they were in the same car as Hamilton. Id still disagree, Lewis has beaten drivers you consider to be better than him. Rosberg could certainly do as well as hamilton in the right car, but then he'd be doing the same if not better than vettel, alonso, button etc too as Hamilton has raced and beaten all of those in the past. I dont see your logic?

Hamilton is havign a bad season, but once again i'll say so you understand. ONE BAD SEASON DOESNT CONSTITUE A CAREER GOIGN DOWN HILL.

CM read again, he is no better and that means same like as good as. And I did mention the faster car here. When did Hamilton prodcued a result with a rubbish car. Do you remember the start of 2009 season? Hamilton was languishing at the bottom because he was not having a good car whereas Alonso came through the ranks when he performed ecxeptionally well for Minardi, same for Kimi when he showed his potential with Sauber and same for Vettel when he won a race with Torro Rosso.

What are you talking about. You said lewis was no better than sutil etc, clearly he is ALOT better!

Didnt Lewis in melbourne start 18th and finish in 4th in the poorly performing mclaren?

WOW - for someone who follows F1 "religiously" (your words) - you know v little.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:

Djoker is in Nadal's head wrote:

Belgarion of Riva wrote:I can understand Button's reaction. He's beating Hamilton this year and everyone knows including himself that he isn't the better driver. I believe that's why he lashed out.

No one asks Webber or Massa because they know their team mates are superior drivers but everyone is shocked that JB is beating Hamilton. People forget he is also beating Alonso. What a difference rule changes make.

JB has never been a front runner and always qualifies and performs worse than the other top drivers/cars, now he's suddenly performing well. Even respected F1 officianados like Briatore said, JB worked for him and was nothing special but now he looks very good. Rule changes have helped JB immensely just like when he was at Brawn.

Great stuff

What a load of Tosh????
Button has always been second runner- who was he running second to when he won the WDC??

Button is also beating Alonso- Is he not driving a different car? In the first season itself next to Hamilton, Button nearly outclassed him.

If Whitmarsh favours Button (supposedlY) then Button must be doing few things right.
IMO as Nigel Mansell said not so long ago that success has gone into Hamilton's head which happens to lots of sportsperson when they get success easily and at young age. He will be okay if he lets his head down and work hard. This 2011 is going to teach him a lot.

Vettel a far far batter driver then Hamilton. Mind you Vettel is younger than Hamilton and already a double world champion. SOme food for thought.

Come now, dear boy. I'm not disagreeing with you. Button has been in F1 for over a decade and has had 1-2 good years even though he's had competitive cars in the past, like the Williams and the BAR Honda (before the earth coloured car days).

He's a good driver, no doubt but he suddenly didn't become excellent and everyone else become rubbish. There are extenuating circumstances.

He's beating his team mate and everyone else besides Vettel, which includes Alonso. He's performed very well this year but last year he was nowhere near as good.

Hamilton has had a poor season by his standards, so has Alonso. JB isn't better than them but he's beating them this season.

Finally Briatore, who I detest made the statement, you may not like it but it's true. The new rules have helped him immensely, just like when he was at Brawn.

No doubts whatsoever

Firstly i wouldn't say Alonso whatsoever, he has had the third best car all season, won a race and finished multiple times on the podium. He's also been consistent with what he has, picking up thirds and fourths.

Onto Button, you do realise F1 is largely about the car you drive? so trying to use he's only had a couple of good seasons isn't true. He was great in 2000 when he debuted, poor 2001, had great seasons from 2002-2004, beating Trulli,Villeneuve and Sato comfortably as his teamates. Button has been in F1 for over a decade and i'd say the only poor season he's really had in terms of out and out car performance was 2001. Whereas Hamilton has had a top car every season bar the first half of 2009. You can only do the best with what you have.

How many cars qualified higher than Hamilton also finished the race? I think more fell off the track that day than Hamilton over took. I think Kubica and Vettel took each other out 3 laps from the end. That's two easy places.



Silverstone 2009? The rain master of 2008 was found out!

In fact Monza 2008, Korea 2010, European GP 2007, Brazil 2008, Canada 2011 are just a few we races Hamilton has competed in that went exceptionally well in challenging conditions......

In fact he struggles in the dry now! Poor tyre management

As for his abilities under pressure when it matters most... Don't go there!!! It's like watching a soggy Rich Tea splurging back into the drink it was dipped it!

So lets get this straight youre slaggin off hamilton for 2 other drivers taking eachother off (it being out of his control) thus lewis gaining the places... right. YET button sits there dawdling along waiting for other drivers tyres to go off then he can take the place when they pit - Jenson does that most races.

Jenson = true racer..... NOT! [rolls eyes]

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:
As for his abilities under pressure when it matters most... Don't go there!!! It's like watching a soggy Rich Tea splurging back into the drink it was dipped it!

Im going to take you down over this bit lol

Alonso isn't much better remember Abu Dhabi last season in the title decider? 2nd in the Championship then got stuck behind Vitaly Petrov for the race that's bottling it under pressure.



PS. Stop with the Green Writing it contravenes the rules

@Fernando

A fair point you make there. BUT at least he did not crumble under the pressure leading up to that last race unlike... others.

Abu Dhabi is not exactly known for its overtaking the same as Valencia and Monaco, but a gamble on the safety car cost him a championship he should never have got near winning in that car. Petrov made his car as wide as Alonso made his in Singapore 2010. Fernando huffed and puffed but there was little he could do and eventually his tyres were neutralised from the dirty air of Petrovs wake.

The right driver won the 2010 championship no doubt. Nobody can deny that.

2007. 17 points clear of Kimi. 2 races to go. What on earth happened? Epic Soggy Rich Tea moment!

2008. Had it not been for team orders at Germany we would have seen a different WDC. The fact that Massa, managed to push Hamilton into nearly snatching defeat from the jaws of victory still baffles me.

2009. No inter team rivalry and a poor car for the 1st half of the season meant no shot at WDC. No pressure at all during this season.

2010. It all went wrong after winning in Belgium. He was within touching distance of the title. The F duct in place for Monza and a win was on the cards. Instead he exited stage left into the gravel trap. As pressure to score points increased so did the DNF's. Faliure in Singapore and Korea followed. From title contender to also ran in 3 races.

2011. After a strong start from Red Bull it became clear that the WDC was not on the cards. But Jenson Button MBE raised his game and has battered Hamilton this year. This inter team pressure from Jenson Button MBE has caused Hamilton to make many mistakes and many trips to stewards. Again he has failled with pressure.

Both Ferraris in Silverstone in rainy conditions - cant remember year 2009 maybe??

Alonso couldnt keep the car in a straightline.

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:@Fernando

A fair point you make there. BUT at least he did not crumble under the pressure leading up to that last race unlike... others.

Abu Dhabi is not exactly known for its overtaking the same as Valencia and Monaco, but a gamble on the safety car cost him a championship he should never have got near winning in that car. Petrov made his car as wide as Alonso made his in Singapore 2010. Fernando huffed and puffed but there was little he could do and eventually his tyres were neutralised from the dirty air of Petrovs wake.

The right driver won the 2010 championship no doubt. Nobody can deny that.

I don't think leaving it to the last race matters to be honest, He still crumbled under the pressure all racing drivers are going to defend and if you set up the car shabbily your not going to get past and that's why ferrari did no straight line speed meaning he got stuck behind Vitaly( who to his credit was fair in all defensive moves and placed the car well)

I Don't think the right driver won the 2010 championship either if your 3rd going to into the final race you really shouldn't be becoming champion but everyone around him seemed to fall apart under the pressure

@ Critical Mass.

Do me a favour, Jenson Button MBE not a true racer?

I advise you to watch Canada 2011. Last to 1st in under 20 laps. If he is not a racer then what does that make Hamiton? A lolly pop waving mechanic?

I've seen Hamilton try to come through the grid from last place before. European GP 2007. How did that go? I've also seen Alonso go from last to 6th in Monaco 2010. Reminded me of Ayrton Senna in the Toleman. That was when I realised he was the "2nd coming of Senna!"

Jenson plods along like a sunday driver, then when others fighting away screw thier trys up, he inherits the spot. Monza 2010 prime example. Lewis all the hard work trying to get passed Schumacher who should have been penalised, both screw their tyres and jenson steals the spot from Lewis.

hahaa.... next you'll be saying Jenson grabbing first in Canada was skill lol... vettel fell off the track haha... please Allessandro do try harder.

@Fernando

Vettel would of made a stunning start to 2010.

Bahrain saw him robbed of a win due to his exhaust.
Australia saw his brakes fail.
Spain saw more technical glitches cost him points.

Vettel could of given up then and nobody would blame him. Even Turkey he could of given up and said "maybe next year!". BUT he had mental toughness to make a stunning comeback.

It's not like Mark didn't have issues over the season now did he? like Red Bull stealing the front wing off his car at silverstone to give to seb , Being Flipped up in the air over the lotus,

I would have blamed him for giving up. Thats race 1,2 and 5. Plenty more races to go.

@Critical Mass

Vettel fell off the track? I think you'll find that he was pressurised into making that mistake. So your saying applying pressure to force a mistake (Be it miss an apex or run off the track) is not having any skill? Take you blinkers off.

Jenson Button MBE's race craft this year has been stunning. He has been the shining light in a Vettel dominated season. I believe (I could be wrong) he is the only driver to have forced Vettel into a mistake this year.

Jenson Button MBE did to shumacher in 15 turns that Hamilton had failed to do in 20+ laps in Monza. Why was that? Because his intelligence in Race Situations has improved dramatically.

I believe you were one of the people who say Jenson Button MBE could only win in wet/damp conditions. I hope you enjoyed Japan 2011!

@Fernando

Dont you think Webber should of capatalised more on Vettels mistakes. He should never of allowed Vettel to come back after so much bad luck.

Silverstone? If Mark has capatalised properly and was leading Red Bull driver in the WDC at the time then he would of got the new front wing.

You're speaking to me about blinkers! lol

You may not like Hamilton, but you just cannot praise him when he deserves it. You'll say anything to put Lewis down, to the point of getting childish. I can openly praise drivers, that i may not lik, when they have done well. So dont speak to me about blinkers.

hmm ok ill give you that one, as i said above. BUT theres a big difference between passing a driver by putting a move on them and passing them due to them going off, or having no grip etc.

Jenson hasnt had to use any race craft, the tyres have helped him enough to just plod along waiting for others to need tyres. He's made the odd move on other drives, but generally he's just sat there waiting.

Annoyingly every time Jenson isnt catching the driver in front, brundle and coulthard automatically say "he'll be saving his tyres", this is not the auto response. Of course Jenson couldnt possibly fall behind another driver. lol

Yes I am talking to you about blinkers.

There is a whole grid outside of silver car number 3. I do admire how you defend the undefendable.

Indeed there is more of a grid and infact dont mind Jenson - just his hole brigade that ass lick him AND youre utter obsession with putting lewis down and once again you ignore me addressing your inability to praise lewis when he deserves it - mentioned it numerous times in the past.

When he deserves it, I will praise him.

I fact I did write an article about Hamilton saying he had reached another level. I think it was after Monza.

https://www.606v2.com/t13640-hamilton-on-a-new-level

There you go.

Once doesnt change my opinion of you. I remember that thread and you had a balanced, fair opinion on the whole situation - no idea why you cant be more like that. Even if you dont agree with us, you never seem to say accept others opinions. ENough times ive seen people on here admit when youve said something sensible or said "fair point" to you.

Its all a shame really as you seem to generally know what youre talking about regarding F1 and although i may not agree with everything you say, i do feel you could be part of a good debate about something if you stopped trying to wind people up by having snide childish digs and put serious points forward without being smug.

Ciambella ''Do me a favour, Jenson Button MBE not a true racer?

haha seriously mate! no point having a sensible debate about anything regarding F1. The quicker you learn not to respond to their stupid comments, yes I said stupid comments the better for everybody on here.

Yeah foolish of my for thinking otherwise really.

Tired of all this punch and counter punch comments. Need a real debate.

apologies.

apologies. Im partly to blame for that.

CM, you are fine. To me you seem to be a knowledgeable poster who happens to like Hamilton and loves to defend him.
I did say that I followed F1 religiously but at the same time I also said that I am not very knowledgeable.

I enjoyed this particular post on motorsport section. Actually this is the first time when I actively participated. It seems we all going to have fun from now on.

By the way who started all this??

That moderator chap, Fernando! - It was his article after all!

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:That moderator chap, Fernando! - It was his article after all!

What happened to your colourful posts? Isn't this weird that you cannot use colour but they are there on the options available

Glad to see that you did not get banned like me

wow wrote:
CM, you are fine. To me you seem to be a knowledgeable poster who happens to like Hamilton and loves to defend him.
I did say that I followed F1 religiously but at the same time I also said that I am not very knowledgeable.

I enjoyed this particular post on motorsport section. Actually this is the first time when I actively participated. It seems we all going to have fun from now on.

With all due trespect though, if you follow something religiously you're bound to learn about the subject.

Not necessarily, I watch all the races but I do not know hell lot about the nitty gritty of the sport. I understand all the rules as well, I know about the drivers and their role in the development of the car but I only know that mcuh what is shown on beeb.

I talk and write through memory pretty much. Finding facts take little bit more time, hence I would claim to be less knowledgeable.

wow wrote:

Alessandro Ciambella wrote:That moderator chap, Fernando! - It was his article after all!

What happened to your colourful posts? Isn't this weird that you cannot use colour but they are there on the options available

Glad to see that you did not get banned like me

Even i find it weird about the colors i think it's to stop people using a new color each line and even i weren't expecting the article to head in this direction

Banned!
You maybe a bad influence on me! I best watch myself around you!

Yeah, I thought it was only red we were not alloewd to use! Shows what I know! (Or don't in this case!)

I think that till now there were not too many Alonso fans in the forum and what I have seen from 606 that Alonso and Hammy fans are always at loggerheads with each other.
The moment I commented about Hamilton being crash king this season the knives came out.
IMO Hamilton fans have to be less aggressive and light hearted to prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

wow wrote:Not necessarily, I watch all the races but I do not know hell lot about the nitty gritty of the sport. I understand all the rules as well, I know about the drivers and their role in the development of the car but I only know that mcuh what is shown on beeb.

I talk and write through memory pretty much. Finding facts take little bit more time, hence I would claim to be less knowledgeable.

Ah what you mean is recalling the facts is what youre "not so good at"? (without trying to insult your intelligence)

There are some on here that have a memory of a computer, for me i dont recall the facts so well. But I wouldnt say i was not knowledgable re F1. Just cant remember the events all the time :lol:

wow wrote:I think that till now there were not too many Alonso fans in the forum and what I have seen from 606 that Alonso and Hammy fans are always at loggerheads with each other.
The moment I commented about Hamilton being crash king this season the knives came out.
IMO Hamilton fans have to be less aggressive and light hearted to prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

I think its how people say things though, again including me!

Saying "lewis is a crash king" was bound to stir emotions, leading to arguments and insults. Putting it in a more constructive way is more likely to be listened to and debated.

My opinion of course.

Critical_mass wrote:

wow wrote:I think that till now there were not too many Alonso fans in the forum and what I have seen from 606 that Alonso and Hammy fans are always at loggerheads with each other.
The moment I commented about Hamilton being crash king this season the knives came out.
IMO Hamilton fans have to be less aggressive and light hearted to prevent this kind of thing from happening again.

I think its how people say things though, again including me!

Saying "lewis is a crash king" was bound to stir emotions, leading to arguments and insults. Putting it in a more constructive way is more likely to be listened to and debated.

My opinion of course.

I totally agree with you CM but I know for sure that as we get to know each other more the discussions will get better only

I think we all need to get better at discussions. THere are some v passionate people on here from both sides. Pro hams and anti-hams. But we'll ruin the forum (and pi55 off Fernando (more)) if we continue how we were. Arguments and slagging matches as opposed to debates.

Not trying to be a do gooder, but tired of the bickering and recently its got out of hand.

wow wrote:as we get to know each other more the discussions will get better

What your sticking around? Oh dear....

CM,I remember your pseudo from 606. When I say that I am not knowledgeable because on 606 there were few posters who really knew alot about the sport. Hence the candid admission.

John wrote:

wow wrote:as we get to know each other more the discussions will get better

What your sticking around? Oh dear....

you need to learn how to debate without using choicest words. You seem very young to me.

You tell 'em Nando.

The only way to decide who is the best is to have them duke it out on the Top Gear test track.

To the best of my knowledge, Sebastian Vettel has set the best time to date:

Sebastian Vettel - 1:44.0
Rubens Barrichello - 1:44.2
Nigel Mansell - 1:44.6
Lewis Hamilton - 1:44.7 (wet & oily)
Jenson Button - 1:44.9
Damon Hill - 1:46.3
Mark Webber - 1:47.5 (v. wet)

All times set in the "reasonably priced" Suzuki Liana.

Looking at those times, you can't help but think Lewis could probably beat Vettel in the dry, while Webber would struggle to match him.

yeah but Lewis was only 7/10th slow in wet/oil conditions - pretty impressive really.

they say you can take 4 seconds off in the wet and 7 in the very wet

EDIT - noted your last sentence.

It is very difficult to predict the winner if they happen to drive the same car in a race. I will still favour Vettel, Alonso and Button.

fernando wrote:they say you can take 4 seconds off in the wet and 7 in the very wet

Good point fernando, in that case Webber's time looks a lot more respectable.

wow wrote:It is very difficult to predict the winner if they happen to drive the same car in a race. I will still favour Vettel, Alonso and Button.

That's a dishonest statement. I know you aren't a Hamilton fan he's already beaten 2 of those guys in the same car so I'm not sure what the logic behind your reasoning is.

Belgarion of Riva wrote:

wow wrote:It is very difficult to predict the winner if they happen to drive the same car in a race. I will still favour Vettel, Alonso and Button.

That's a dishonest statement. I know you aren't a Hamilton fan he's already beaten 2 of those guys in the same car so I'm not sure what the logic behind your reasoning is.

fine, let's add Hamilton to that list too. But tbf, it would have been fascinating to see all of them driving RB7 and then comparing the results in a time trial and in the race too.