ATP World Tour Finals 2011, London Calling

First topic message reminder :

nitb, be logical for once, he has been an embarrassment to what he plays, why negate it?

JwT did very well today, but the 'old man' was just a shade better.

Well played Federer. The break at 4-3 in the third was as brilliant as being broken at 5-4 in the second was a mental lapse. Tsonga capitalised very well on that.

Good match. Thanks Federer and Tsonga for a wonderful final. Still think the TMC 2005 was a better final.

It was an error strewn final in third set but I am really happy to see Fed winning. Another fetaher in the cap. Roger=GOAT=TMF

Also I can now say that didn't I tell u before that Fed will win it .

Well that was tense

Echo everyone else - well done Feds - fantastic come back, good to see a really tense gritty win - I think that will do his confidence in clutch situations a lot of good. Too often in recent years he has won by being the superior player on the day, but I've wondered if his nerve is as strong against the younger guys when he is in desperate straits (apart from 2009 RG and W - when his nerve held and he won ugly).

What a champion!

And Tsonga too so brave, so brilliant for so much of the match - I really thought when he broke back in the second that the match was probably his - it was a fantastic fight, and he was a gallant loser, just as he has been a really exciting and fantastic competitor all week. Hope this year is just the beginning of some really great stuff from him. I love his exuberance and his courageous play.

Tsonga came out for the third all ready to bully Fed out of the match. And a big part of me thought it could well happen. But Fed stood his ground and drew on all that experience gathered over the years

I felt Federer sounded a touch flat in his 'victory speech' and perhaps he was still annoyed with himself at not closing it out on serve in the second (like wot I would have done of course, no problem...... )

Six titles, competing in a field that only ever includes the top eight in the world. May never be topped .......

"Six titles, competing in a field that only ever includes the top eight in the world. May never be topped ....... "

why not

noleisthebest wrote:"Six titles, competing in a field that only ever includes the top eight in the world. May never be topped ....... "

why not

Indeed, all records can be broken. It'll be difficult though and indeed it may well not be broken.

Then again it may well be broken in 12 months.....

I thought he sounded exhausted (in a good way) lags - and relieved - I haven't seen his face looking that tense or focused all the way through a match for some considerable time - of course that may just be because I have a stronger contact lense prescription this month

bogbrush wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:"Six titles, competing in a field that only ever includes the top eight in the world. May never be topped ....... "

why not

Indeed, all records can be broken. It'll be difficult though and indeed it may well not be broken.

Then again it may well be broken in 12 months.....

That's the spirit

noleisthebest wrote:"Six titles, competing in a field that only ever includes the top eight in the world. May never be topped ....... "

why not

Ah nitb, always standing guard to ruin the joy of Fed & other players fans, where her not much loved Djoko doesn't make it.

So, to recap for all real non-obsessed tennis & Fed fans, Xmass has come early with this Fed win and well done to him!

Tsonga has shown a tremendous fighting spirit and as said by others, with a decent coach & discipline he can beat anyone next year (same valid for Murray too).

You nearly had me there bogbrush (i was thinking ..... are Sampras and Lendl set for a come-back ). And then I realised you mean Fed sticking around for title number seven.........

lags72 wrote:You nearly had me there bogbrush (i was thinking ..... are Sampras and Lendl set for a come-back ). And then I realised you mean Fed sticking around for title number seven.........

Tenez,

we look forward to your post-match musings once your adrenaline levels come down to safe levels

noleisthebest wrote:Tenez,

we look forward to your post-match musings once your adrenaline levels come down to safe levels

I echo that

Not a great match, but plenty of tension.

I think Tsonga was the better player in the first set but his problem is that he can't oblige 3 consecutive winning points when not on serve. Fed on the other hand has such a good sense of taking hold of ones service game at the right time. Two second serves, a short ball, a tight rally and BAM! Fed breaks.
It was amazing to see that Tsonga came back in the second set, he already had given up after the break in the second set. I'm glad Federer pulled it off, he's been by far the best indoor player this year so he deserved this title. But boy it took a lot out of him. It shows how difficult it must be for him to win another slam. Physically he was in the red today.

I agree GP - I never recall seeing him admit to tiredness after a win like that when the euphoria and the adrenaline should ward off exhaustion.

Still.....unwise to discount the Maestro for the future, especially as he was the last man standing physically at the end of this year.

"Physically he was in the red today. "

I noticed that at the end of the 2nd set, he had panic written all over his face, however, managed to recover much quicker than Tsonga and won.
Experience, disposition made the difference, and it really is not a big surprise he won. Tsonga isn't exactly a mental giant, but is a lot better than last year even in that department.

I hope that Tsonga will take a lot from this match - he was the better player at times, just not at the deciding moments in the end, but he has shown tremendous competitiveness this season, and this week.

Fed's face certainly didn't have zen like calm today - he looked ferociously focused and tense throughout, and he looked mightily relieved when he celebrated match point.

noleisthebest wrote:Tsonga isn't exactly a mental giant, but is a lot better than last year even in that department.

He did play well. He seems to have played well @W 2011 to come back from two sets down. Hope he does well in 2012.

time please wrote:
Fed's face certainly didn't have zen like calm today - he looked ferociously focused and tense throughout, and he looked mightily relieved when he celebrated match point.

He was overjoyed when he got the break @4-3 in third. Very fierce in determination to not fluff the second chance he had.

Yeah he could use a few weeks off, well the good thing is this title makes the break more sweet

very sweet indeed

Well done Roger, you played well and kept your head whilst Tsonga was losing/regaining/losing his. Tsonga seemed the better tennis most of the time but couldnt string it consistently...and I like watching Tsonga play (and Roger too) but he's no mental giant compared to the top4. I'm sure Roger (and Tsonga) will be glad Murray, Djoko and Nadal were injured/worn out/out of form this week - made his job much easier! Its not great that the final event of the year didnt have any depth of representation from the top 4 in the semis when they've been dominating the tour semis all year, especially the slams. It is a case of Roger being the last man standing. Djoko/Nadal need to learn the scheduling lessons, although in Nadal's case I genuinely dont think he's too bothered about post-USO events except DC...everyone talks about how he fades at the end of years, and he does...but everyone else takes it more seriously than he does I figure. However, he still needs to schedule better and mentally regroup. His tennis doesnt need to change markedly, he just needs to get his mojo back.
Dont think Roger will have as good an opportunity as this weekend through next year though when Djoko, Nadal and Murray come back recharged, along with Tsonga and a fired up Berdych too...plus all the others who could come forward inc. Delpo, Soderling, Raonic, etc. But enjoy the moment Roger and congrats to him and his fans

lydian wrote:Well done Roger, you played well and kept your head whilst Tsonga was losing/regaining/losing his. Tsonga seemed the better tennis most of the time but couldnt string it consistently...and I like watching Tsonga play (and Roger too) but he's no mental giant. I'm sure Roger (and Tsonga) will be glad Murray, Djoko and Nadal were injured/worn out/out of form this week - made his job much easier! Its not great that the final event of the year didnt have any depth of representation from the top 4 in the semis when they've been dominating the tour semis all year, especially the slams. It is a case of Roger being the last man standing. Djoko/Nadal need to learn the scheduling lessons, although in Nadal's case I genuinely dont think he's too bothered about post-USO events except DC...everyone talks about how he fades at the end of years, and he does...but everyone else takes it more seriously than he does I figure. However, he still needs to schedule better and mentally regroup. His tennis doesnt need to change markedly, he just needs to get his mojo back.
Dont think Roger will have as good an opportunity as this weekend through next year though when Djoko, Nadal and Murray come back recharged, along with Tsonga and a fired up Berdych too...plus all the others who could come forward inc. Delpo, Soderling, Raonic, etc. But enjoy the moment Roger and congrats to him and his fans

Come on Lydian...

Roger basically thrashed all of those guys last year. His best on indoors surpasses all of them.

He may not win next year but it certainly won't be because those guys can bring something he hasn't seen before.

It'll just be because Roger is a year older and unfortunately father time waits for no man.

Agree about Father Time. They're all feeling the Father Time of 2011 too.
Roger is great indoors no doubt, but given the speed of the court do you seriously think Roger would have had the relative stroll in the park he's had all week if the other top 3 were anywhere near their usual form/fitness? I dont. He may still have won, granted, but it would have been alot harder. Anyway, I'm not coming at this tribally - its just a shame the wrap up event of the year was effectively a case of last man standing.
Yes, Roger knows their game but he's not beating them much anymore is he.

lydian wrote:Agree about Father Time. They're all feeling the Father Time of 2011 too.
Roger is great indoors no doubt, but given the speed of the court do you seriously think Roger would have had the relative stroll in the park he's had all week if the other top 3 were anywhere near their usual form/fitness? I dont. He may still have won, granted, but it would have been alot harder. Anyway, I'm not coming at this tribally - its just a shame the wrap up event of the year was effectively a case of last man standing.
Yes, Roger knows their game but he's not beating them much anymore is he.

He's done well to hang on, though

lydian wrote:Agree about Father Time. They're all feeling the Father Time of 2011 too.
Roger is great indoors no doubt, but given the speed of the court do you seriously think Roger would have had the relative stroll in the park he's had all week if the other top 3 were anywhere near their usual form/fitness? I dont. He may still have won, granted, but it would have been alot harder. Anyway, I'm not coming at this tribally - its just a shame the wrap up event of the year was effectively a case of last man standing.
Yes, Roger knows their game but he's not beating them much anymore is he.

6-3 6-0 how quick to forget!

And that Steve Tignor article you posted NITB, mentioned the same thing about last man standing too.
Yep...and he's found a renewed passion for the game too you feel which is commendable given his stellar achievements. He really doesnt have much left to prove. I think he's driven by the need to be seen as the best player out there, I personally think he hates the #4 ranking (or #2, #3).

reckoner lets not get into petty H2H records with Nadal...the point is Fed's had a great run at the O2, from a neutral perspective its a shame more and more of the post-USO events are becoming more affected by injury/form due to the grind of the tour, i.e. slower surfaces, etc. I want to see all the players on somewhere near top form at the season ender, not those who havent made as many finals during the year doing well at the end. Something needs to give right?

wow wrote:It was an error strewn final in third set but I am really happy to see Fed winning. Another fetaher in the cap. Roger=GOAT=TMF

Also I can now say that didn't I tell u before that Fed will win it .

I went one better and told you who the damn finalists would be!

lydian wrote:And that Steve Tignor article you posted NITB, mentioned the same thing about last man standing too.
Yep...and he's found a renewed passion for the game too you feel which is commendable given his stellar achievements. He really doesnt have much left to prove. I think he's driven by the need to be seen as the best player out there, I personally think he hates the #4 ranking (or #2, #3).

Yes, I feel his fans and the media (who are probably 90% fans) put too much pressure now expecting him to compete like he did 5 years ago.
It's very difficult for him not because of his tennis, but because of the recovery time and body maintenance.

The fact that he's been able to bridge two generations seamlessly is a huge credit to him but his fans don't seem to be happy with that.
He's won tons, broke so many records, and if I were his fan (which I am to a certain measure) I'd savour the moment and any subsequent moments if and when they come.

It's ridiculous to expect him to be jetting around the world dragging his young family and chasing records insanely. His hunger is still there, but his appetite is now finer.

lydian wrote:reckoner lets not get into petty H2H records with Nadal...the point is Fed's had a great run at the O2, from a neutral perspective its a shame more and more of the post-USO events are becoming more affected by injury/form due to the grind of the tour, i.e. slower surfaces, etc. I want to see all the players on somewhere near top form at the season ender, not those who havent made as many finals during the year doing well at the end. Something needs to give right?

oh just a reminder in response to "he's not beating them much anymore is he"...

I don't see why it's such a problem to manage the events you play at if an old man can do it.

lydian wrote:Agree about Father Time. They're all feeling the Father Time of 2011 too.
Roger is great indoors no doubt, but given the speed of the court do you seriously think Roger would have had the relative stroll in the park he's had all week if the other top 3 were anywhere near their usual form/fitness? I dont. He may still have won, granted, but it would have been alot harder. Anyway, I'm not coming at this tribally - its just a shame the wrap up event of the year was effectively a case of last man standing.
Yes, Roger knows their game but he's not beating them much anymore is he.

But it's not last man standing for no reason; it's because the game they play to win stuff is essentially about running people into the ground. Fed stays standing because his game is more attacking and less wearing.

It's not coincidence that he remains in better health, despite being much the eldest.

Don't think it does lydian's cause any good to be going on about out of form or worn out players as somehow excusing their poor showing at WTF

I believe only Rafa can claim to have played more matches this year than Fed, and then only a couple more. Fed also flew all the way to Sydney & back straight after USO and played the first of his three DC rubbers the day after he stepped off the aircraft, having to switch from hard to grass in the process (odd decision by Aussies to opt for grass when you know a 6-time Wimby champ is due in town ....!)

As reckoner says .... why aren't these young guns keeping up the pace at year end ...??

Those saying Fed's returning of late has been poor should reconsider after this match. Returning Tsonga's 135-130mph purposely showed amazing reflexes & skills. His game seems so effortless but we know it’s not and it’s actually hard work to be able to glide, hit FH and BH almost always perfectly timed, so close to the net and the lines. I also thought he was going to lose like at Wimbledon this year when he threw away those double BPs then, his serving for the match and further lead in the 2nd set TB.

But what is perhaps most remarkable with Federer is that he is so focused, he never panics. He plays the game to close the match in the second set as if it was the first game of the match, obviously just too relax I guess. But let’s not forget it is also his keeping cool that allowed him to win so many titles and here stay ahead in the 3rd set and break when needed. He simply plays the same win or lose. We do not see many players like that. A lot of them, especially with such a sharp game, would lose their edge and match. Not him. As if he knew he was better and could make the difference at will, when needed. And that is what Tsonga felt too, imo, pressing the French into further mistakes. In short Tsonga had to play slightly over his comfort zone to stay with Federer. Federer on the other hand only gave 100% when it really mattered. Besides that bad game serving for the match in the second set, he had played a perfect match.

He was flexing his legs quite a bit and that got me worried as we know it’s a sign of back problem. But don’t be surprised to hear him say he was exhausted. He played 15 matches in 28 days and that is a lot for anyone….including those younger players who could not even bother trying. You don’t need to see it live but it helps to realise how physical it is out there. It’s brutal. I have always said it and I am amazed that Federer can still play for 3 full weeks out of 4 and win it all like when he was 26 versus players who push him physically .

He will need to pace himself even more next year, that means losing early in some TMS and other tournaments if he wants to give his best chance for the slams.

I felt sorry for Tsonga. I would have supported him against anybody else, bar of course Federer. Again, we should not say Federer should not lose against players like Tsonga cause the fact is that Tsonga on form can beat anyone. I don’t know anyone who has that mixture of flair and power. That makes him both inconsistent but deadly too. Next year if he is in the final, I’ll be behind him …even v Federer. He deserves a big title.

Any Federer has won the Masters 6 times…he is simply the master of the game. No-one is close. They can bring him down physically by making him run right ad left, he still has a few levels above everybody else, talent wise.

Tenez wrote:Those saying Fed's returning of late has been poor should reconsider after this match. Returning Tsonga's 135-130mph purposely showed amazing reflexes & skills. His game seems so effortless but we know it’s not and it’s actually hard work to be able to glide, hit FH and BH almost always perfectly timed, so close to the net and the lines. I also thought he was going to lose like at Wimbledon this year when he threw away those double BPs then, his serving for the match and further lead in the 2nd set TB.

But what is perhaps most remarkable with Federer is that he is so focused, he never panics. He plays the game to close the match in the second set as if it was the first game of the match, obviously just too relax I guess. But let’s not forget it is also his keeping cool that allowed him to win so many titles and here stay ahead in the 3rd set and break when needed. He simply plays the same win or lose. We do not see many players like that. A lot of them, especially with such a sharp game, would lose their edge and match. Not him. As if he knew he was better and could make the difference at will, when needed. And that is what Tsonga felt too, imo, pressing the French into further mistakes. In short Tsonga had to play slightly over his comfort zone to stay with Federer. Federer on the other hand only gave 100% when it really mattered. Besides that bad game serving for the match in the second set, he had played a perfect match.

He was flexing his legs quite a bit and that got me worried as we know it’s a sign of back problem. But don’t be surprised to hear him say he was exhausted. He played 15 matches in 28 days and that is a lot for anyone….including those younger players who could not even bother trying. You don’t need to see it live but it helps to realise how physical it is out there. It’s brutal. I have always said it and I am amazed that Federer can still play for 3 full weeks out of 4 and win it all like when he was 26 versus players who push him physically .

He will need to pace himself even more next year, that means losing early in some TMS and other tournaments if he wants to give his best chance for the slams.

I felt sorry for Tsonga. I would have supported him against anybody else, bar of course Federer. Again, we should not say Federer should not lose against players like Tsonga cause the fact is that Tsonga on form can beat anyone. I don’t know anyone who has that mixture of flair and power. That makes him both inconsistent but deadly too. Next year if he is in the final, I’ll be behind him …even v Federer. He deserves a big title.

Any Federer has won the Masters 6 times…he is simply the master of the game. No-one is close. They can bring him down physically by making him run right ad left, he still has a few levels above everybody else, talent wise.

tenez, all praise for you after reading this. But how come u suppport Fed more than your own? If Somdev was playing against Fed then I would have defo supported Somdev.

I do in team sports of course....like I would in a DC...but Federer is a special case.

Just saw the replay of the match. Amazing win for Federer who I wanted to win but hope Tsonga can improve and take his achievements a stage further next year. I disagree with those saying things along the lines of Tsonga's not a mental giant in the context of this match or that they were lucky the others weren't there in whatever shape or form they were supposed to be. The tension in this match was a great exhibit of an attacking players mentality, for both players. Everyone gets nerves and the only way either of these two were going to win was by attacking and in that situation it takes much more than just pushing the ball back. In addition, this time round these guys were by far the best players on this surface and would have prevailed regardless.

Tenez wrote:I do in team sports of course....like I would in a DC...but Federer is a special case.

I agree

lydian wrote:reckoner lets not get into petty H2H records with Nadal...the point is Fed's had a great run at the O2, from a neutral perspective its a shame more and more of the post-USO events are becoming more affected by injury/form due to the grind of the tour, i.e. slower surfaces, etc. I want to see all the players on somewhere near top form at the season ender, not those who havent made as many finals during the year doing well at the end. Something needs to give right?

But Nadal and Djoko haven't played more than Federer, have they? It's not playing an extra final that makes the difference surely. At least you have to acknowledge it;s the gruellling style of Nadal and Djoko (to a lesser extend) that prevents them to play all year round like Federer. To me the masters has always been a very important tournament. In fact it was more important than the AO for Borg, McEnroe and Lendl...at first. And ot will always be the 5th slam cause of the great names who won it.

Tenez wrote:

lydian wrote:reckoner lets not get into petty H2H records with Nadal...the point is Fed's had a great run at the O2, from a neutral perspective its a shame more and more of the post-USO events are becoming more affected by injury/form due to the grind of the tour, i.e. slower surfaces, etc. I want to see all the players on somewhere near top form at the season ender, not those who havent made as many finals during the year doing well at the end. Something needs to give right?

But Nadal and Djoko haven't played more than Federer, have they? It's not playing an extra final that makes the difference surely. At least you have to acknowledge it;s the gruellling style of Nadal and Djoko (to a lesser extend) that prevents them to play all year round like Federer. To me the masters has always been a very important tournament. In fact it was more important than the AO for Borg, McEnroe and Lendl...at first. And ot will always be the 5th slam cause of the great names who won it.

You are missing the point, Tenez. Federer never reached those finals.

Tenez - your point about his focus and lack of panic is significant. These are real assets which have always been an integral part of his on-court persona.

And in the same way that players in difficulty (transient or otherwise) can unwittingly motivate opponents by mumbling away, berating themselves, looking to the heavens, throwing a racquet etc etc, it is Federer's very calmness that so often rescues him when it's his turn to feel the heat.

I've always thought that if you came home in time to catch only the business end of a televised Federer slam match, but without the benefit of either sound or an on-screen scoreboard, then you'd get nothing from his facial expression to tell you if he was 2 sets up or 2 sets down ...

Yes Lags,...I think it was in his first match v Tsonga when he said, " I was just trying to stay calm". It;s key to his game and as a spectator we might think he is not trying hard enough or he is panicking inside but all he does is simply try to play without being involved emotionally....and that is why he is a great champion...even if that has led to him losing some matches we think he shoudl have won. All in all with his type of game, he had no choice. He is not relying on his physique to make a difference but on a very thin edge requiring extreme composure.

Federer was tired and I think this is why he lost the second set. His mind relaxed too much again as he thought (or wanted to believe) he had won it already.

Tenez wrote: As if he knew he was better and could make the difference at will, when needed. And that is what Tsonga felt too, imo, pressing the French into further mistakes. In short Tsonga had to play slightly over his comfort zone to stay with Federer. Federer on the other hand only gave 100% when it really mattered.

Yeah, that's what i said yesterday and today after the match. Federer feels it when it's the right time to strike. Like a predator really. And Tsonga, he's a gambling man, it's like roulette to him, he kinda expects that after two winning shots, the third will go out. It's the last step he needs to take, to make the opponents (and himself) believe he could make the third shot too.

Next year if he is in the final, I’ll be behind him …even v Federer.

No you won't

gallery play wrote:

Tenez wrote: As if he knew he was better and could make the difference at will, when needed. And that is what Tsonga felt too, imo, pressing the French into further mistakes. In short Tsonga had to play slightly over his comfort zone to stay with Federer. Federer on the other hand only gave 100% when it really mattered.

Yeah, that's what i said yesterday and today after the match. Federer feels it when it's the right time to strike. Like a predator really. And Tsonga, he's a gambling man, it's like roulette to him, he kinda expects that after two winning shots, the third will go out. It's the last step he needs to take, to make the opponents (and himself) believe he could make the third shot too.

Yes but I feel Tsonga can hit a confidence patch soon where he coudl turn unplayable. Not there yet..but I think 2012 can be his year.

noleisthebest wrote:

You are missing the point, Tenez. Federer never reached those finals.

That doesn't matter. Fed still played roughly as many matches, as many sets over the season. He played the FO final, Djoko did not. Nadal did not even play the AO semi. There is absolutely no reason why Nadal and Djoko should be more tired than Federer here.

I stand by what I said about Nadal withdrawing from Paris. It's not about being tired...it's about running out of juice.

Rafa took several weeks off with the specific aim of arriving in London in top shape and then for DC duty afterwards. He said as much himself, immediately after crashing out early in Shanghai.

If he really is 'worn out' then let's see how he gets on in Seville. He will be at home in all senses (both location and surface-wise). If he comes through then there can be no fatigue-related excuse for his poor show in London. If not ..... then just what IS going on after all his time off ....??

I have massive respect for Rafa. He has 10 Slams and countless other records to his name. I fully expect him to be very tough to beat in 2012. He was after all, the only one there to even challenge Novak in so many big finals this year, even though he was always on the losing end. But the question of fatigue, mental or physical, whatever, year after year, is almost in danger of tainting his legacy.

lydian wrote:And that Steve Tignor article you posted NITB, mentioned the same thing about last man standing too.
Yep...and he's found a renewed passion for the game too you feel which is commendable given his stellar achievements. He really doesnt have much left to prove. I think he's driven by the need to be seen as the best player out there, I personally think he hates the #4 ranking (or #2, #3).

that's probably true - that's why he has been a winner. I don't think Rafa has enjoyed being 2 to Novak's No 1 much either and I am sure that will give him plenty of incentive when they play next year. Why wouldn't these great champions want to be No1 - after all, holding a No 5 position is not going to give either of them a huge sense of achievement when they have both known the heights.

Fed hasn't played a great deal less than Rafa (about 6 matches or so) and about the same as Murray. It's ridiculous if people start making the point that the No 1 and 2 and new No 4 had less to give at the year end championship because they had been too successful all year (poor them!!) - those kind of arguments really make Federer's consistency over a long period of time, being able in the past to begin and end seasons successfully, look even more remarkable.

Fed also made a gruelling trip to Oz after the US Open - he then took Asia off, and his batteries were nicely recharged. He is five years older than Rafa and six years older than Novak and Andy - he doesn't need excuses, but you shouldn't 'qualify' his wins either.

Tenez wrote:

noleisthebest wrote:

You are missing the point, Tenez. Federer never reached those finals.

That doesn't matter. Fed still played roughly as many matches, as many sets over the season. He played the FO final, Djoko did not. Nadal did not even play the AO semi. There is absolutely no reason why Nadal and Djoko should be more tired than Federer here.

I stand by what I said about Nadal withdrawing from Paris. It's not about being tired...it's about running out of juice.

Nadal and Novak were not tired in London. Nadal lacked confidence. Novak lacked momentum and match fitness. After the successful year they had, they both lacked motivation.

But tired, they were definitely not.

We can speculate all we like about attitude, but the only factor we can actually be certain about is that the style of Djokovic, Nadal and Murray takes more out of them than does Federer's.

Given we can see that in front of our eyes it makes only limited sense to go looking for speculative reasons for a difference.

As such, it is fair to say that Federer "earnes" his better form at the end by his ability to achieve so much by putting in so much less.

lags72 - when you say "doesnt do my cause any good" I dont have a cause, other than to comment its a shame the WTF was blighted by injury and players out of form. Yes we know Djoko/Nadal/Murray play a more physical style of play, thats obvious but lets look at that in more detail.

Saying Federer has played the same number of matches across the year isnt the same as looking at the compressive and deleterious effects those key 6 months of the tour from late Feb. to early Sept. This was a period of time when Nole and Rafa went almost exclusively H2H and completely dominated the tour between them. This culminated in them taking massive reserves out of each other in that USO final which I dont think either has still properly recovered from yet. So its as much mental fatigue as anything, and thats actually the worst take of fatigue. If we look at their points from late Feb (Dubai) to early Sept (USO):

Nole: 11,070 (across 60 matches)
Rafa: 8,535 (across 61 matches)
Roger: 4,200 (across 48 matches)

This period is what has led to Nole and Nadal wearing themselves out for the rest of the reason. Its not about the number of matches per se, Roger has spread his more evenly across the season and not had lots of back to back finals across the crucial part of the season. Its not necessarily about poor scheduling either, its about going deep at just about every single event across 6 months and constantly facing each other, yes they play a gruelling style of play but when you're getting to every final Sunday you're not left with much recovery time before the next event. The tour is very difficult now for leading players between March-Sep with little time between events (unless you start skipping them). Nole and Nadal have simply burnt their candles very quickly over that period and are paying the price later on, and in Rafa's case he has the added baggage of losing to the same guy each time. Additionally, is it not unusual for 2 players to reach so many finals together in the key part of the year, indeed is this not pretty unprecedented? Its no wonder they're mentally worn out after such a gruelling season...Rafa in particular is going to have pick and choose his events more one feels but then he has the dilemma of choosing to excel from March-Sep (and maybe AO), or spreading himself more evenly across the year. I personally think he's not too bothered about events post-USO (except WTF - so he may reduce the late asian tour in future) and will likely continue to win much of his success as usual across those 6 months.