Is the Haka fair on the opposition?

Is the Haka fair on the opposition?

It can be intimidating
http://folksong.org.nz/kapa_o_pango/new_haka2.jpg

It can also be funny
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Travel/Pix/pictures/2009/2/18/1234970115986/Haka-Rugby-haka-France-vs-001.jpg

Some players love it
http://www.rugbydump.com/media/posts/richard-cokerill-haka-rd.jpg

Some teams disrespect it
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3036/3052636403_13e7fc1d1c_z.jpg?zz=1


Discuss

Poor, even by your low standards.

Yes the Haka should be allowed but I believe that the opposition should be allowed the opportunity to respond however they want.

Risca Rev wrote:Poor, even by your low standards.

Explain?

Of course it is. You handle it like yo handle any challenge. Man up!

The Haka..............................................................

Never once have I seen the All Blacks win a game before kick-off (I've predicted a few mind you! ).

Leave it alone - it is simple theatre. The game happens after; the opposition should respond then. Don't tell me the opposition players don't get their own mental booster from watching it.

The HAKA is usually my favourite time during an AB v Ireland match.... After the HAKA it all goes down hill for this poor Irish fan

Three big downers for you in Summer billy...Start the anti-depressants early and you should just about survive. But look on the bright side, three Haka's too...so every silver cloud has............................. oh forget that one.

SecretFly wrote:The Haka..............................................................

Never once have I seen the All Blacks win a game before kick-off (I've predicted a few mind you! ).

Leave it alone - it is simple theatre. The game happens after; the opposition should respond then. Don't tell me the opposition players don't get their own mental booster from watching it.

I am not so sure whether it is theatre though.

Perhaps some see it as that, I doubt the All Blacks see it a theatre, I certainly don't.

Ireland are going to win one this year Secret.... I am sure that the HAKA will not be my favorite thing for at least one match......

No it's not fair. SCW used to talk about getting 1% advantages, and I would suggest that is what it is.

That being said I would not scrap it since it has become a part of the game. I would however allow opposing teams to respond to it however they wanted to, and ask NZ not to be so precious about an opposing team's reaction.

Personally, if I were a head coach, I would have the team go and warm up at the other end of the pitch.

tooboredtowork wrote:No it's not fair. SCW used to talk about getting 1% advantages, and I would suggest that is what it is.

That being said I would not scrap it since it has become a part of the game. I would however allow opposing teams to respond to it however they wanted to, and ask NZ not to be so precious about an opposing team's reaction.

Personally, if I were a head coach, I would have the team go and warm up at the other end of the pitch.

It is not NZ being precious about it, it is the IRB.

I understand why people want their team to respond to it the way they want to.

But think about this.

If you man up to a challenge and face it head on, you show the opposition that they will not intimidate you.

If you go do stretches on the other end of the field, or pick your nose on the sideline because you want to do your own thing. What message does that send to your fans?

Risca Rev

Explain yourself please?

I'm a little confused by your comment?

Nah the haka is brilliant for many reasons. It is an attraction to people who don't play/watch much rugby, and sparks their interest. However I hope the all blacks know that people should be allowed to stand up to the haka, and I love those confrontations. It has been called disrespectful to do so in the past. I find it brilliant, that picture of Richard Cockerill is class. A bit like the boxing weigh-ins.

biltongbek wrote:

SecretFly wrote:The Haka..............................................................

Never once have I seen the All Blacks win a game before kick-off (I've predicted a few mind you! ).

Leave it alone - it is simple theatre. The game happens after; the opposition should respond then. Don't tell me the opposition players don't get their own mental booster from watching it.

I am not so sure whether it is theatre though.

Perhaps some see it as that, I doubt the All Blacks see it a theatre, I certainly don't.

You'd be wrong if you think I belittle it in what I say, biltong. I personally love it but to suggest it is theatre is not an insult to its meaning or its power - theatre is designed to induce both. It is symbolic though - there is no real threat that anyone will be speared or beheaded. It is a symbolic affirmation of Maori culture and a symbolic challenge to the opponent to meet them in battle. How that wouldn't get the adrenaline juices of the opponent going I don't know.

I love it....but...to those who eternally criticise, I was saying get over it. If you don't like it or think it's twee then simply wait for your team to answer the challenge in the game itself.

who cares? if you can't handle it you're in the wrong game son

Thanks Fly, i think I misunderstood your meaning, yes, I agree it is simbolic.

I think back to the 1995 RWc final, we have been waiting since 1980 to stand infront of the All BLacks, and that occasion with Kobus Wiese standing there in the middle overstepping the hlafway line in little increments is a day I will never forget, the pride and pasion of a moment like that is simply awesome.

Pieter Hendriks who didn't play in the final, said at a seminar one day, the boks were so charged up they could barely contain themselves.

So I like the fact that a team can stand and encroach that line, I agree there must be a civility in the distance, you don't need to end up in their faces, but nothing wrong with a bit of a stare.

It is war after all, isn't it?

It's an institution! I have two daughter, and far too much pink in my house, and girly stuff on the telly. I made sure first thing my son saw on the telly when we brought him home from the hospital when he was born last year was the Haka and a decent game of rugby.

nobbled wrote:It's an institution! I have two daughter, and far too much pink in my house, and girly stuff on the telly. I made sure first thing my son saw on the telly when we brought him home from the hospital when he was born last year was the Haka and a decent game of rugby.

Risca Rev

Explain yourself please?

I'm a little confused by your comment?

I love the Haka, its a great spectacle...

But yes i agree..the IRb need to take away the cotton wool. It is a challenge, and other teams should be allowed to challenge back...and im sure the AB's would love that anyway!

HERSH wrote:Risca Rev

Explain yourself please?

I'm a little confused by your comment?

The lights are on Hersh, but it doesn't seem he is home.

nobbled wrote:It's an institution! I have two daughter, and far too much pink in my house, and girly stuff on the telly. I made sure first thing my son saw on the telly when we brought him home from the hospital when he was born last year was the Haka and a decent game of rugby.

I have 3 daughters, who all love the Haka and try to copy it when it comes on. My world at home is very pink also, but that includes pink rugby balls and associated items.

It should be allowed - but so should a response - whatever the opposing team (not the IRB) deems that may be!

MarcusHalberstram wrote:It should be allowed - but so should a response - whatever the opposing team (not the IRB) deems that may be!

Yeah - let's have England Morris dancing, the Irish River-dancing, Scotland doing the Brave-Heart bit, and the Welsh singing close harmonies...

Or maybe not.

Let's not forget it is not just the ABs who use it.

I enjoy it, and would not get rid of it. To answer the question though: yes it does give the teams performing it a very slight edge. Personally I would put it before the anthems so any edge is lost. However, I think if you are a rugby player you should get a kick out of facing it.

I would have my team ignore it and warm up at the other end as it would tickle my sense of humour.

Do Tonga, Fiji and Samoa have an unfair advantage over the opposition as well?

I think the title of your article should be Is the Haka fear on the opposition? And the answer to that one is no. What intimidates is the record of the ABs on many sides. Whether they perform the haka or not doesn´t change that.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:Do Tonga, Fiji and Samoa have an unfair advantage over the opposition as well?

It depends if you are Wales playing fiji or Australia playing Samoa I suppose.

Let's all remember that professional sport is essentially entertainment. The Haka (and pardo my ignorance here) whatever the other Pacific Islands teams call their version is exactly that. Entertainment. On the big stage of international rugby it's great, long may it remain. To all the detractors that think it gives a psychological advantage over the other team... please these guys are professionals. If they're overwhelmed by a bit of gurning and shouting then no-one would be able to play in Cardiff ever!

i like the haka i think its brilliant, teams just need to man up and face up to it!

a bit like wales did a few years back.

Ireland get two anthems.

South Africa get an anthem that goes on forever in 143 different languages.

In Scotland the visiting team are frozen to death while they are forced to shake hands with a crudely re-animated corpse, which is just freaky.

Here in England we have the advantage of having made up all the rules and having enough money to get them changed any time we want.

The Welsh have the advantage of thinking they've won even when they lose.

Frankly I say let them have it.

miteyironpaw wrote:Ireland get two anthems.

South Africa get an anthem that goes on forever in 143 different languages.

In Scotland the visiting team are frozen to death while they are forced to shake hands with a crudely re-animated corpse, which is just freaky.

Here in England we have the advantage of having made up all the rules and having enough money to get them changed any time we want.

The Welsh have the advantage of thinking they've won even when they lose.

Frankly I say let them have it.

11 mate. But in the anthem we only use 3.

biltongbek wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:Ireland get two anthems.

South Africa get an anthem that goes on forever in 143 different languages.

In Scotland the visiting team are frozen to death while they are forced to shake hands with a crudely re-animated corpse, which is just freaky.

Here in England we have the advantage of having made up all the rules and having enough money to get them changed any time we want.

The Welsh have the advantage of thinking they've won even when they lose.

Frankly I say let them have it.

11 mate. But in the anthem we only use 3.

OK but I use 143 when I'm drunk and singing along.

Yeah, I chug along in annumber of languages too, but don't understand most of the words then.

miteyironpaw wrote:Ireland get two anthems.

South Africa get an anthem that goes on forever in 143 different languages.

But the longest anthem has got to be Argentina's, there's 3 minute of music THEN they start singing!!!

I think the NZ one should be just in Maori. Then nobody would realise just how naff the lyrics are.

OzT wrote:

miteyironpaw wrote:Ireland get two anthems.

South Africa get an anthem that goes on forever in 143 different languages.

But the longest anthem has got to be Argentina's, there's 3 minute of music THEN they start singing!!!

well either they have a very long intro, or they don't know the words to their anthem and only sings the chorus.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think the NZ one should be just in Maori. Then nobody would realise just how naff the lyrics are.

I very much like to hear the NZ anthem in Maori.

cricketfan90 wrote:i like the haka i think its brilliant, teams just need to man up and face up to it!

a bit like wales did a few years back.

Was that the time Wales made them do it in the changing room?

It is just a thought, but when it comes to 7s rugby the Albs only perform the Haka after the tournament, and only if they win.

So why dont the Abs do the same, Play the game first, if they win, then perform the Haka. ok.

majesticimperialman wrote:It is just a thought, but when it comes to 7s rugby the Albs only perform the Haka after the tournament, and only if they win.

So why dont the Abs do the same, Play the game first, if they win, then perform the Haka. ok.

Nah! That wouldn't work. I see it as a challenge they are laying down - if they only did it afterwards it would like they were bragging and rubbing your nose in it. Probably provoke many a handbag!

Maybe they should only do it if they lose then. As a kind of "well done" to the opposition.

Sadly, it would mean we wouldn't see it very often...

I would have been able to do a joke about "well we'd see it every time there was a world cup" but they've ruined it now!

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:I think the NZ one should be just in Maori. Then nobody would realise just how naff the lyrics are.

Wow, I didn't realise it wasn't in Maori. Gulp. Really?

I can just about tolerate NZ doing it.If England start this mullarky I might spontaneously combust!Mind you they appear to be through their kiwi selection phase and are now more saffer orientated.

It starts off in Maori miteyironpaw and then it´s sung again in English. Pointless really. It sounds actually quite good in Maori and then dreary and sad in English! God defend us? We don´t need God when we have Kaino, McCaw and Read.

kiakahaaotearoa wrote:It starts off in Maori miteyironpaw and then it´s sung again in English. Pointless really. It sounds actually quite good in Maori and then dreary and sad in English! God defend us? We don´t need God when we have Kaino, McCaw and Read.

Sacrilege, my friend, Kaino, McCaw and Read needs Him.

Just going off topic here but when i was in Australia (eons ago) a tv crew walked around the streets of Melbourne with a NZ flag asking Aussies if the recognised the flag. The only people that recognised that it was the NZ flag were Kiwi's and Brits..... The Aussies thought it was theirs

I think a fair few bright Irish lads would also think the Ivory Coast's flag was ours....upside down or backways!