England vs Wales - Match ups.

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The Back Three

Wales Likely - North - Halfpenny - Cuthbert.

England Likely: Ashton - Foden - Strettle

England's back three contains more pace, whilst Foden on his day can be electric, although was poor against Italy and Brown will feel unlucky to miss out, Ashton has looked out of sorts on the left wing, whilst Strettle has been solid if not spectacular. The Welsh wings will prove a real handful for England and they need to find a way to negate them. North is world class in attack - he has it all, pace, power and vision, however his defensive work-rate may need work on, whilst Cuthbert is also fast and powerful. Halfpenny has been goal kicking well, he's looked mostly solid under the high ball and there is no doubt he has gas and is creative in attack. Therefore I'd have to say that Wales have the edge here.

Centres

Wales Likely: Roberts - Davies

England Likely: Barritt - Tuilagi/Farrell - Tuilagi

The Welsh centre partnership is extremely potent and many have labelled both Davies and Roberts as a future Lions centre pairing. Davies is in the form of his life, both players have a physical presence and are strong ball carriers, both have a high defensive work-rate and both are surprisingly fast. England on the other hand must pick Tuilagi as he has the x-factor and could potentially damage Wales (both in attack and defence!) the problem is, who to play him with. If England pick Barritt at 12 they have a rock wall defensively and a player who will aim to get you across the gainline in a one dimensional manner. If England pick Farrell at 12, they can rely on his composed goal kicking, and in attack he may offer more creativity than Barritt although hasn't really had the chance to show this against Scotland and Italy, there will also be question marks surrounding whether his defence will be able to cope with the likes of North, Roberts and Davies running at him. Therefore I would pick Barritt and Tuilagi in the centres, I feel the could combine well together and would be rock solid defensively. Wales have the edge here by a clear margin.

Half Backs

Wales Likely: Phillips - Priestland

England Likely: Dickson - Hodgson/Youngs - Flood/Dickson - Flood

Both Welsh half backs are extremely dangerous, in defence Phillips acts as an extra flanker, whilst in attack he can ball carry effectively and provide good service. Priestland attacks the gainline, has a very strong kicking game and is solid in defence. England have a tough choice to make regarding scrum half - Youngs has been out of sorts, whilst Dickson has looked lively when he has come on and is buzzing for a start. Arguably the most important decision England need to make is at fly half, between Flood and Hodgson. Hodgson hasn't done anything wrong, he defended very well against Scotland and Italy, he didn't have the burden of goal kicking, whilst he has scored two opportunist charge down tries in two games, although he has struggled to ignite the England backline. I'd go with Flood, simply as Flood is an established international goal kicker - which means England can have Barritt and Tuilagi in the centres, whilst Flood also has the ability to get the backline moving and he can bring the best out of Ben Youngs and Manu Tuilagi. Tough call on Hodgson though. Wales again have the edge at half back.

Back Row

Wales Likely: Warburton (c) - Faletau - Lydiate

England Likely: Robshaw (c) - Morgan - Croft

Wales have potentially the best back row in world rugby. Lydiate is a traditional blindside who carries hard, has a huge defensive work-rate and does the grafting. Faletau has an even higher defensive work-rate than Lydiate which really says something, and he is a huge ball carrier, at 21 his potential is ridiculous. Warburton is also a fantastic player already, he is fast, powerful and can compete with the best in the world at turning the ball over at the breakdown. England in the back row are a work in progress, Robshaw playing at 7 is a traditional blindside - his work-rate is phenominal, however he lacks the scavenging skills and pace of an openside. Croft is an unorthodox blindside, who tends to go missing in games, however on his day he can be very effective, and his lineout skills are unquestioned. Morgan is a direct, powerful number 8 with a good defensive work-rate and deserves a chance to start. Again Wales have the edge here.

Second Row

Wales Likely: Evans - Jones

England Likely: Botha - Palmer

Evans is a solid lock, who tackles hard and carries well in the tight, whilst Jones looks a reborn player in the second row at the minute and really acts as an extra flanker around the pitch. England will look to gain the upper hand in the lineout with Palmer calling the shots and Croft able to help out, whilst Botha will look to make his physical presence felt around the park. The engine room of England's scrum may also be more effective than the Welsh with Botha a particularly strong scrummager. Therefore I feel England have the edge here.

Front Row

Wales Likely: Jenkins - Bennett - Jones

England Likely: Corbisiero - Hartley - Cole

There is no doubt on his day Jenkins is the best loosehead prop in the world especially around the park with his ball carrying, defence and handling particularly impressive. Jones is a powerful tighthead and Bennett may need to work on his consistency in the lineout, where England will target him. England's front row is also a work in progress - Corbisiero, Hartley and Cole have all scrummaged well against the Scots and Italians. Hartley has been very effective in the loose, his lineout has mostly been impressive, whilst Corbisiero and Cole will want to make more of an impression around the park. Even call in this department.

Conclusion

Wales have the upper hand in most departments, however England will look to dominate in the set-piece and if the right selections are made I can see England potentially pulling off an upset. (Funny to say that about a home game at Twickenham) Maybe I am just living in hope.

Robshaw's Barmy Army.

I hope your right Ultra - for the last week I've been confident (still expected it to be tight) but spurred on by the irratating and quite pathetic wums - but as we get closer I'm getting more and more nervous, as we should win but we need to play to our potential to do it (or England to B*lls it up). I just hope we do...

ultra wrote:Heheh.....

In all seriousness Wales are confident of the win and rightly so.......the forwards? We'll take that I think (tight 5 obviously), this game will be decided by the backs in contradiction to that old mantra 'forwards win matches....'

Oops...

To summarise - tight 5....us, just.
back row - wales
backs - mostly wales.
Therefore - wales

ok?

Apart from the tight 5 you've got that about right.Two Lions props should give us the edge there as well.Your only plus is that it is at Twickers.Hope it is a cracking game and that the 11's and 14's see plenty of ball.

I agree how Lions props should do us proud but Cole and Cosib... aren't exactly weak props

On what we saw in the first two games I'd say we might achieve parity in the front row and back three but Wales have a clear advantage everywhere else.

But this is a very new side just getting to know eachother. Two games, that's it. From what I've been reading on the internet the England set up is well aware of the deficiencies to date and Rowntree appears very happy with training and the improvement he's seeing. I know that doesn't mean much, but it is better than a tight lipped silence. England seem to know they must improve to stand a chance and think they can.

Hmm. A big ask, as the Aussies say. That's not just tweaking. That's getting a whole chunk of our game, which has apparently not existed up to now, suddenly to work.

Wales strong favourites. But not impossible for England. IF we secure a fair share of ball and IF our backs actually fire, we could do it. Our back three is genuinely dangerous. I suspect the Welsh might be looking for a record score, and if they are, that might rattle their composure a bit. But they are a good squad who know eachother well and are in form. We ought to see some damn good Rugby, anyway! Just hope the weather stays good.

Still, I didn't expect to be 2 from 2. What I'm really looking for is improvement. I don't think England can't attack, I think a young and inexperienced England side just haven't got it to work yet: Scotland was their first game, in Italy conditions were difficult and the Italians are no pushovers any more. If they do get it together in attack, we could see some fireworks!

Hope Brian Moore is on the commentary team. Think the front row battle will be titanic and think he's the best man to explain what's going on there.

Not only not weak, but surprisingly strong....Think I should delve deeper. Both corbs and cole have surprised me with their technique and strength in the front row, the welsh front row are extra flankers...good scrummagers and half decent loosies....give me a prop that props any day and these young english guys seem to be moulded of older stuff.....the engine room has been a revelation....Botha (who has taken some unfounded flak) scrummages like a beast. The front row win by a millimeter, the grunt donkeys then do the rest.
I might be wrong but I honestly think that in the scrums and the lineout we edge it.....we'll see. Backrow?? na....wales' bigger and better (not quicker tho - but that doesn't matter so much if you get there first and do nowt!).....can't wait to see this Morgan fella try his hand for real however....8's such an important position (guess where I played)
9 - can't call.....not seen enough of Dickson of late.

10 - Wales...whoever plays
12 - Wales - it'll be the england starters....might be different when manu comes on
13 - Wales
11 - Hmm, well...ok wales
14 - Same again
15 - tricky........on their best maybe foden gets the nod, but on recent form - Wales.

Team spirit? evens.
I hope its a close game, 5-10 points to england, but i believe that wouldn't be reflective of where these teams are right now. 15 plus to wales,,,,

Ultra,who sorted the scrum v SA for the Lions once Vickery got taken off?

The lions was in 2009..

That was because Jones was too short for the beast to horrifically cheat against. Let's not talk about that tour...

Taffineastbourne wrote:Ultra,who sorted the scrum v SA for the Lions once Vickery got taken off?

a) that was a few years ago now and although Mr Vickery was good as part of a great pack, one on one I'm not so sure..

b) I'm not saying the welsh front row can't scrummage and.....

c) the role of the second row is a mightily underrated one when it comes to scrum time. (yet oddly not when the going backwards with many a front row reffering to the 'crumple zone' with disdain) and I'm fairly sure a change occured there too within one or two scrums...(also, when Vickery bossed 'his' opposition 2003 etc, he had a decent lock giving him a little assistance).

Like I sadi, I may well be wrong and if so will report back here and admit I've seen a different take on what I think I know about. It could end up with tight 5 parity, we could end up with england's quick backrow suddenly clicking.....England might win....I just don't think so

I can't see how you'd say Wales are strong favourites. If we're favourites, it's marginal.

Oh stop it. Wales are strong favourites because they're a cohesive, fit, well drilled unit who have developed under the same regime for some years now. They're playing an effective, direct brand of rugby that has caused problems for every team they've faced for the passed year or two. They've got an almost exclusive mix of youth and experience and a plethora of natural leaders.
England are a new team in every way.

Wales are strong favourites.....It's not a bad thing is it?

Yes. We don't do 'favourites' well, sinking to the level of weaker opposition.

On current form i would make Wales slight favorites but it is at Twickers......

Just so as to prove a point...and that i actually know what I'm talking about as far as forward play goes....the english scrum had the upper hand, without a diubt....corbs is going to be the best loosie in the world the english 2nd row was immense.......the back rows were only split by warburton and wales had slightly better luck in the backs.........

The only team with a lower average age in the tournament than wales......NH looking good after one of the most intense games of rugby I've watched for a long long time

ultra wrote:Just so as to prove a point...and that i actually know what I'm talking about as far as forward play goes....the english scrum had the upper hand, without a diubt....corbs is going to be the best loosie in the world the english 2nd row was immense.......the back rows were only split by warburton and wales had slightly better luck in the backs.........

The only team with a lower average age in the tournament than wales......NH looking good after one of the most intense games of rugby I've watched for a long long time

dont agree with that at all. Wales put us under lots of pressure and were the pack going forward and i think two led to pens.

ultra wrote:Just so as to prove a point...and that i actually know what I'm talking about as far as forward play goes....the english scrum had the upper hand, without a diubt....corbs is going to be the best loosie in the world the english 2nd row was immense.......the back rows were only split by warburton and wales had slightly better luck in the backs.........

The only team with a lower average age in the tournament than wales......NH looking good after one of the most intense games of rugby I've watched for a long long time

I must have a faulty telly.On mine we had your lot in some strife at scrum time!

The pen in the scrum...hairy dude was binding on the arm....re-watch if you don't belive me, Jones was binding on the arm....illegal but the touch judges don't seem to worry so much about these things at the minute.....the other penalty scrum wise was jones going straight to ground.......please belive me, the front 5 in dominance were the english front 5. and they;re a fair but younger. 2nd rows were all england. PARLING WAS IMMENSE AND BOTHA i'VE SAID TO ANYBODY WHO WOULD LISTEN IS A CLASS ACT

Taffineastbourne wrote:

ultra wrote:Just so as to prove a point...and that i actually know what I'm talking about as far as forward play goes....the english scrum had the upper hand, without a diubt....corbs is going to be the best loosie in the world the english 2nd row was immense.......the back rows were only split by warburton and wales had slightly better luck in the backs.........

The only team with a lower average age in the tournament than wales......NH looking good after one of the most intense games of rugby I've watched for a long long time

I must have a faulty telly.On mine we had your lot in some strife at scrum time!

Obvioulsy faulty. Although there was some strife.....just think that sometimes some calls are made by fellas who've never been in there. I think I said your props were great? tacklers, carriers, extra flankers? Slightly overrated actual scrummagers tho. And that DID show..........against a 24 and 23 yr old......

Botha got a hard time in the contact area, lightweight. He's another no.6 wannabe like Courtney Lawes. Why was Palmer dropped for these two? :S

Naaa...Botha's a good lock. Scrummages really well, tight arms and good back position. Not lightweight at all unless you mean he sometimes goes missing from the tight to try and play the flankers game....but then again that charge down? and he narrowly missed a couple more..I liked our engine room today.

Botha would be a better 6 in my opinion.