Welsh Regional Rugby in a positive light...!

First topic message reminder :

Since regional rugby started in 2003 these results have been achieved by the all four of the regions:

- 7 Quarter-finals in Europe

- 2 Semi-finals in Europe

- 13 top four placements in Celtic League with three championship titles

- Two championship titles in Anglo-Welsh and two runners-up places


That is apparently resulting in Welsh Rugby Success rate in the Six Nations that has gone from 30% in 2000-2003 to 60% from 2004 - 2012.

We have more young academy players playing in the upper echelons of the game than ever before, the regional and National sides have an average age younger than ever before.

We know that Wales and its regions can do better, but it is not all doom and gloom is it...?

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

Hansen often criticised unfairly in my opinion. He did insist on setting professional fitness standards (ask Adam Jones) and those 03 RWC matches sparked a new generation of players into life. I think the 05 & 08 GS's owe a little to the work Hansen put in ... Nice one Stevo

Totally agree and the RWC 2003 games I mentioned are more than memorable. They showed what Welsh players were capable of and gave us supporters hope.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

manofgwent wrote:I know for a fact that the Blues and Dragons give away tickets for fun just to try and increase attendances to paper over the massive cracks.

A truly shockingly shocking revelation.
Sshh MOG. We don't want everyone knowing do we?
A certain Cardiff Blues FD (who has now left the club) denied the existence of these free tickets. I had around 6 of them given to me last season. Back of the net or what?
Pretend attendances. Pretend regions. Pretend everything's ok?
Far too much pretending for me.

I bagsied two free tickets for the Scarlets Glasgow game a while back. Teams have been doing that since tickets and cold winter nights were invented! Hardly shocking guys.

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

I bagsied two free tickets for the Scarlets Glasgow game a while back. Teams have been doing that since tickets and cold winter nights were invented! Hardly shocking guys.

Not shocking no, but when a financial director (now an ex financial director) denies the bleeding obvious to someone's face it becomes a problem. A big one at that.

Cardiff Dave wrote:

Totallybiasedscarlet wrote:

I bagsied two free tickets for the Scarlets Glasgow game a while back. Teams have been doing that since tickets and cold winter nights were invented! Hardly shocking guys.

Not shocking no, but when a financial director (now an ex financial director) denies the bleeding obvious to someone's face it becomes a problem. A big one at that.

Yes, but bleeding obvious as you say. I guess I'm just inured to it as it's been going on for years. At the end of the day the bank accounts don't lie (unless the FD's want a big smacked bum from HMRC) and I'm sure the WRU and regions know where they're at in that particular regard.

Casartelli wrote:

Tribalism is fine if it brings in crowds and develops strong teams. But it hasn't since the 70s and is only relevant for the old timers now. If you're into local tribal squabbles then go and watch the Premiership matches.

Tribalism is an odd comment, very derogatory.




Crowds were great in the seventies, and the fifties and sixties.

Though as the schools and the WRU neglected the game through the eighties and nineties and the quality dropped dramatically so did the crowds.

Us "old timers" who are the age of the decisive votes in the WRU, are old enough to be aware that the lack of attendance, lack of public money in the game is directly related to quality of the product and it's relative success.

The regions need to win competitions, and financial model considered, they need to do it with Welsh players.

The WRU measures to improve the lifeline, the academies, the sevens will make regional rugby strong, will make international rugby stronger. Both, and a more healthy economic environment will bring the fans.

It is nothing to do with who the teams represent in my opinion.

Maesteg. I just wish that we could give the welsh fans what they want. There's barely been a derby game where the 2 sides have been at full strength. Derby matches should be scheduled to times of the season when we know players will be available ( as well as Christmas). I blame the rabies league, the scheduling and kick off times.
You're right tribalism isn't the right word. But there is so much pleasure to be taken out of getting one over your rival. Look at the Scarlets last night. Their fans had a great time. Especially cheering every mistake Cuthbert made!!! I went to Kingshilm a couple of years back to see the Dragons get a stuffing. It's an intimidating place for an opposition player, but not for the fans. We had a great afternoon. That's what I mean. Rodney Parade is intimidating, even more so when a welsh region are in town. We love to see the likes of Xavier Rush knocking the ball on. We'll give him plenty of stick, but opposition fans mingle in the Hazell. You'll always get your die-hard fans, butyou can't attract the casual fan to a Connacht or Airini game. They want to see the Blues or Ospreys. That's what excited fans. I don't even get excited by our next 2 games. Connacht and Treviso. I go, but it'll be flat.

On the free tickets. Yes. Free tickets have always been given out, but never to the extent they are now. I've been to the CCS to watch the Dragons on two occasions. On both occasions I have been handed tickets just walking to the ground. I haven't looked for them. A few seasons ago, 11 of us went down. We were given 8 tickets outside the ground!!!
The Dragons are just as bad. My wife is a teacher in Newport and whenever there's a games at RP, she regularly comes home and says that there were tickets in school she could have got. Normally for the Bisley Stand too!!! A mate of mine is a teacher too and he's not renewing his season ticket, because he can always get his hands on free tickets. The best one though is this. My wife's friend called over on Friday and she mentioned that she still had 3 free tickets, unused, innher hand bag. All for the Bisley!!
It might have gone on in the past, but never to this level. When fans aren't going to renew seasonntickets and why should we. I pay £165 a year and you've got people who couldn't give a monkey's swabbing in, sitting in the Bisley for nothing!!! Regions are onntheir knees!!!

manofgwent wrote:Maesteg. I just wish that we could give the welsh fans what they want. There's barely been a derby game where the 2 sides have been at full strength. Derby matches should be scheduled to times of the season when we know players will be available ( as well as Christmas). I blame the rabies league, the scheduling and kick off times.

The League sort out the fixtures, though here are some attendance figures for you.


8,337 were at the CCS last night

12,332 were at the 9 all draw at the liberty in November

11,186 watch Ospreys vs Blues on New Years day

6,913 Blues vs Scarlets at CCS in October

11,200 watched Scarlets Blues thriller in May last season

6,720 Turned up to watch dragons play local rivals Cardiff at rodney parade last april

It's poor. Really poor. Rugby dreamer posted that the game last night couldn't be played at the Arms Park, because it was too big a game. Obviously not.
I think that things need tone looked at and something has to be sorted with the derbies. They need to be made into mini internationals. Tipuric v Warburton, Priestland v Tovey, Liam Williams b halfpenny, Lydiate v turnbull that sort of thing.

No simple solutions.

But as the quality of rugby improves, the results will too. Good rugby and exciting results will increase the gates.

It happened with the Irish provinces, it will happen with the welsh regions.

But it doesn't look like the quality of rugby will improve though.

gowales wrote:But it doesn't look like the quality of rugby will improve though.

Why?

Players are better than they were. There are more players, coaches are changing. Personally thought the quality of rugby by all four regions was very good this weekend and has been many other weekends. They have had some very good results this year.

You thought the Blues - Scarlets game was good quality rugby? or even the Ospreys game? I sure didn't and i can't see many people queuing up to see that. Didn't get to watch the Dragons game so can't comment on that.

I've always been the believer that if a team plays a good brand of rugby and is successful then the gates will increase. Blues have played some awful rugby this season, and if a team is playing rugby that is terrible to watch then who will then, go and watch, especially if the tickets are above £15.

The trouble is the Blues play a boring type of rugby, as do the Osprey's which is imo one of the main reasons why they get poor gates. If, however, the Osprey's play the type of rugby they did against Leinster on Friday night people will go and watch them, and of course if they are beating the top sides when they play them, like Friday night. Scarlets have loyal supporters which helps their gates, but they also play an exiting brand of rugby which attracts the fans as they know that they are going to be entertained, giving them value for money.

Hopefully, with all the overpriced NWQ players leaving the regions, the Wlesh youngsters can come through, get game time and hopefully be encouraged to express themselves. This could be a great opportunity for the regions to bring through some exiting youngsters and play an attractive, free flowing game. I think a big step also would be to play games on Saturdays permanently, with obviously the odd game on Sunday's. People prefer to watch games on Saturday's, a tradition that has existed for years, people wait all week for their day off on the Saturday to go watch their team play, especially if we have the weather we have had this weekend. 6:30 is a late game, people want to be at home having a meal, or down the pub for a drink, not in the Blues case having to take the car to the game due to the poor transport to the ground. If games kicked off around 2-2:30 ish more people would turn up, as its at a convenient time and by the time they leave they'll be home for their tea and then go down the pub for a few beers.

gowales wrote:You thought the Blues - Scarlets game was good quality rugby? or even the Ospreys game? I sure didn't and i can't see many people queuing up to see that. Didn't get to watch the Dragons game so can't comment on that.

Blues vs scarlets, six tries, both teams evenly matched, scarlets getting a little bit more luck. Nearly all welsh players many internationals.

Ospreys beat the best team in Europe away in Dublin, first team to beat Leinster in 20 games.

Dragons thrashed Edinburgh in Scotland.

What more do you want...?

The Blues game had a lot of stupid mistakes and handling errors, lacked intensity for the most part and tries doesn't always mean that it's a good game and that was certainly the case in last nights game.

Ospreys game was pretty crap for the most part i thought. Like the Blues game there were a lot of handling errors by both teams. And the O's were clueless in attack and lacked intensity and urgency. A couple of pieces of brilliance by key players got those tries. The game plan still revolves around a bloody strong front 5 and relying on sparks from Bowe, Beck, Dirksen, Shane to win them games. The jury's still out on the Ospreys, next week we could lose to Treviso for all we know!

And don't tell me the O's have been playing good rugby this year. It's been crap and that's why no one is going to watch them plus the internationals are hardly on show. Same with the Blues

gowales wrote:The Blues game had a lot of stupid mistakes and handling errors, lacked intensity for the most part and tries doesn't always mean that it's a good game and that was certainly the case in last nights game.

Ospreys game was pretty crap for the most part i thought. Like the Blues game there were a lot of handling errors by both teams. And the O's were clueless in attack and lacked intensity and urgency. A couple of pieces of brilliance by key players got those tries. The game plan still revolves around a bloody strong front 5 and relying on sparks from Bowe, Beck, Dirksen, Shane to win them games. The jury's still out on the Ospreys, next week we could lose to Treviso for all we know!

And don't tell me the O's have been playing good rugby this year. It's been crap and that's why no one is going to watch them plus the internationals are hardly on show. Same with the Blues

Sounds more like you don't want to enjoy it. I enjoyed the matches and thought the results were good achievements that make the run for the play offs very interesting...!

Trust me i do but i just thinks its a crap product and there are a lot of people who feel the same as me. I'd rather watch Super rugby or the English prem most of the time to be honest.

I really enjoyed watching the Scarlets last year, that's the type of rugby i want the regions playing.

gowales wrote:Trust me i do but i just find it crap and there are a lot of people who feel the same as me. I'd rather watch Super rugby or the English prem most of the time to be honest.

I really enjoyed watching the Scarlets last year, that's the type of rugby i want the regions playing.

Scarlets are playing the same rugby this year as last...!

In fact they are doing better, away win in Northampton. Ospreys are a better side, they have had some great games so have Blues and Dragons. I don't agree with your views at all.

Regional rugby is not perfect but there is improvement, they are trying to improve, they are trying to offer an attractive and more importantly successful four teams for the public to chose to support.

I do agree there are a number of posters who dislike the regions and welsh rugby below international level. But it does seem that the disenfranchised are unwilling to look at any positives. That is their problem, it is not the problem of what is on offer rugby-wise.

I think the product is poor too, but I'm hooked as I'm a Deagons fan through and through. The super 15 may be great and people love Super League, but I can't get Excited unless I feel a part of it. I can watch and enjoy any top level sport and appreciate it. I love football and NFL, but I'm not attatched to it. I live for the Dragons. We may be the least successful region, but that makes it all the more special when we take a big scalp and to say I was proud of Toby and Danny in the 6 nations would be an understatement. The poor old Dragons having man of the tournament!! Fantastic!!

manofgwent wrote:I think the product is poor too, but I'm hooked as I'm a Deagons fan through and through. The super 15 may be great and people love Super League, but I can't get Excited unless I feel a part of it. I can watch and enjoy any top level sport and appreciate it. I love football and NFL, but I'm not attatched to it. I live for the Dragons. We may be the least successful region, but that makes it all the more special when we take a big scalp and to say I was proud of Toby and Danny in the 6 nations would be an understatement. The poor old Dragons having man of the tournament!! Fantastic!!

So the regions cant be a poor product. You love your region despite their lack of success.

The Regions can and are mostly producing a poor product. That doesn't mean that some loyal & honest fans can't see the general lack of quality.

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:The Regions can and are mostly producing a poor product. That doesn't mean that some loyal & honest fans can't see the general lack of quality.

They are producing the young guys who just won our country a Grandslam. That is progress. those players are quality and are getting results. Its brilliant for the regions and brilliant for Welsh Rugby on the international stage.

Yes we are producing the young players and yes I love my region, but the regions aren't trying to attract me. I'll follow the Dragons through thick and thin along with a few more thousand. The problem the regions have is attracting the casual fan. I've loved watching Toby come through and enjoy watching the likes of Adam Hughes and next season can't wait to see the battle between Steff and Lewis Robling for the fly half slot (think the Blues signed the wrong 10)!!! But the casual fan in Gwent isn't bothered by that. The casual fan would like to see the stars playing every game and that just doesn't happen.
I worry about the Ospreys. A region that had decent attendances with an all star cast. What will happen next season when they're mainly picking the kids??? Dont get ne wrong. It's great for the national team. Rhys Webb, Biggar, Dirksen, Walker etc, but I just dont know how the regions will increase attendances.
When I'm talking about the product being poor, I'm more talking about the Rabies league. Some great teams, but a poor competition on the whole.

manofgwent wrote:
When I'm talking about the product being poor, I'm more talking about the Rabies league. Some great teams, but a poor competition on the whole.

Although more Rabbo Pro 12 teams in the HEC than the two other leagues combined. That shows it to be quality.

If they are playing local lads, then people will want to go and watch them play. It really does give the region a much more sense of community when you see your team fielding players from the actual region week in week out, especailly helps when you know they've come through the academy system.

Rugby dreamer. Maybe thats true in Llanelli, but it clearly isn't true anywhere else. Attendances are dropping. I completely disagree. Steffan jones has come through at Cross Keys. As did Faletau, but I wouldn't have thought many Keys fans would follow him at the Dragons. The Dragons don't do a lot to bring in support from outside Newport, so you don't find many fans at RP from outside Newport. Are there any Ebbw Vale fans following Lydiate's career?? No. Only on the box!!

Maesteg. I did say that the Rabies is a league that has some really great teams, but it doesn't make it a good league. Munster, Leinster and Ulster are top top teams. They play in our league, but you barely see them at full strength. Because the Irish players are centrally contracted, they have limits on their games. Brian o Driscoll had a 13 game limit last season. Well if Leinster make the final of the HC then he'll play a max of 4 league games. I don't remember the last time I saw Brian o Driscoll at RP. made 4 years ago. Maybe.
I'm not saying the teams are poor, but the competition is. The structure of the season is appalong. HC, LV, Rabies, 6 nations. They're all over the place. Only the international fixtures are played in a block. It needs rethinking.

I agree mog

well there you go then, you say Dragons aren't doing anythign to bring in supporters from the feeder clubs.

They need to use the stars they have from those feeder clubs to go out and promote the game more, bring the feel good factor, and get more crowds in. Fans only have to go to a game one or two times to get the buzz and will want to go back.

Part of that is making sure the match day experience is a good one, and I can't see the Dragons having a problem with that.

Rugby dreamer. You are bang on. That's exactly what we need. I saw an interview with Rupert Moon. He was talking about the whole matchday experience at the Scarlets. It's not just about the game. It's about the future generations. The Dragons match day experience is no different to when I started following the the mid 80's. They've even had to drop prices in the bar as fans were drinking at pubs outside the ground. The Dragons board are a complete joke. The marketing is appalong. We have a player in Toby Faletau, who would be so easy to Market. We have the player of the 6 nations and we still won't capitalise on it.
Rodney Parade is a great experience, but the region haven't moved on at all.

Hmm, at least you can see the areas you need to improve on, that at least is a start. You need to get some sort of new marketing guy on board just to try out new things. Match day experience is key.

I absolutely love going to Y Parc, and I get there early now too and stay on after as they've got the supporters village there. Loads of people do the same and it all means more money for the Scarlets. The Scarlets have made big mistakes along the way in promoting it, and they are still coming across troubles with it now that they need to iron out, but match on match, the experience is getting better. Tis just something that is going to take time. THe key thing is for me though is that sometimes you might only get a casual fan for one big game. If the match day experience isn't great for them, are they really likely to come back? The regions are proper businesses now and need to be run as such.

Don't the Dragons have a club house? maybe they can look at ways of improving that more to help improve the game day at the Parade.

I agree. We do. Yes the dragons have a club house. It's the old Newport club house. We've barely progressed. The players use to mingle innthe club house. This really made you want to go back after the game, but now they stay down in the Bisley stand. In the Hazell Stand we have just 2 bars. The Hazell probably hold about 5000 fans. 2 bars??? I won't bother queuing if it's a big game as it takes too long. At the recent munster game, there were a large group in front of me, drinking bottles that they'd smuggled in. The Dragons are missing a massive trick. A professional team run by amateurs!

Aye, the Scarlets are still a bit like that too! Seems it's rife in all of Welsh rugby, tis still going to take a while for professionalism to come though me thinks.

Still seems to me that the biggest problems are economic and lack of results.

manofgwent wrote:Rugby dreamer. Maybe thats true in Llanelli, but it clearly isn't true anywhere else. Attendances are dropping. I completely disagree. Steffan jones has come through at Cross Keys. As did Faletau, but I wouldn't have thought many Keys fans would follow him at the Dragons. The Dragons don't do a lot to bring in support from outside Newport, so you don't find many fans at RP from outside Newport. Are there any Ebbw Vale fans following Lydiate's career?? No. Only on the box!!

Maesteg. I did say that the Rabies is a league that has some really great teams, but it doesn't make it a good league. Munster, Leinster and Ulster are top top teams. They play in our league, but you barely see them at full strength. Because the Irish players are centrally contracted, they have limits on their games. Brian o Driscoll had a 13 game limit last season. Well if Leinster make the final of the HC then he'll play a max of 4 league games. I don't remember the last time I saw Brian o Driscoll at RP. made 4 years ago. Maybe.
I'm not saying the teams are poor, but the competition is. The structure of the season is appalong. HC, LV, Rabies, 6 nations. They're all over the place. Only the international fixtures are played in a block. It needs rethinking.

Spot on

aye but to help address the economic problems, you needs more fans through the gates, and running the regions more professionally will be a massive help for that.

Dreamer. It would. The Dragons did reduced price tickets for the munster gsme and I think kids were free. But even the best marketing team would struggle to promote the Dragons v Connacht followed by the dragons v Treviso.

Like I said I think timings are crucial also. In the premiership people like to go to the games early afternoon on a Saturday, its something to look forward to and you get a sense of a rugby community on match day. A match on a Friday night doesn't entice people to go, its a burden, people on a friday want to relax after a long week of work, or go into town and have a drink. That's why Blues still got good crowds at CAP on friday nights as it was basically going out for a drink in town, with the opportunity to see a good game of rugby opposite the pub. Move more games to Saturday's at say 2:30 and I honestly think attendances will improve.

Its not going to bring in 5,000 more people, but it will help imo.

Martyr. You couldn't be more right. I hate the kick off times. I can cope with a Friday and Saturday night but hate a Thursday and Sunday game. All for tv and not for the true fan.
I used to love following Newport. Away days were far more fun. Driving to Stradey, the Brewerry field, Sardis road and Eugene cross with my brother. Jump back in the van for the drive back to Newport, listening to the scores coming in on the radio and a few pints back in the port. Great times!! Now I barely go to an away game. A few of us looked into going to watch the Deagons in Treviso, but the flight back wasn't until wedneday!!!

I genuinely believe that regional rugby is good for the Welsh game - and that returning the game to the clubs will harm the results of our national team. The regions have overseen higher standards of professionalism and the development of youth since their inception. If that could be maintained across 8 or 9 clubs - I would be all in favour - but I don't believe it can. The talent pool would become diluted - not only that and teams would end up becoming too reliatnt upon foreign imports to hold the fort. Not good for the Welsh game.

THAT SAID - the current marketing of the regions is pretty hopeless. There needs to be more involvement in schools, more encouragement in the local area. Kids need to identify.

For the first time in my life - I have been genuinely positive about the direction the WRU has been taking the game in Wales. Since Lewis took the helm, in fact, things have been steadily more positive. Equally - I cannot remember a time I was more depressed about the business decisions of what should be our two "premier" regions - based upon squad size and wealth - the Blues and the Ospreys.

The Scarlets and the Dragons have done well - B+ standard in terms of marketing and development - based largely around bringing on youth exceptionally well.

The Ospreys development of players is sad to see - they seem to take genuine talents and make them worse. When was the last time Gareth Owen had a good game (I know he's missing an ACL at the moment - but before that)? When he played under Lyn Jones away at Leinster he looked a class act - had plenty of time on the ball, a decent sidestep of either foot and decent distributive skills. Under Holley/Johnson - first he had to lose any particular position by playing fullback/centre/flyhalf/wherever else - until his form suffered and he hasn't come back. We had a decent young scrum half in Webb - so we bought Fotuali'i - who, although he has done better recently - was utterly awful initially and still relegated Webb to the bench.

Now I know that I don't get to see what goes on in training - and I don't get to see the commitment of the players - but how is that supposed to bring on the development of youth? I don't want to turn up to see young talent get steadily worse.

As for the Blues - I don't want to see some Scots carthorse kick away fantastic position on a cold wet November night. I'll stay at home at watch it on S4C instead - and the beer is cheaper too.

Until the Blues and the Ospreys start to connect with their fanbase - they aren't going to attract new fans.

Casartelli wrote:And Swansea is most certainly 'west'.

To be honest west is what used to be called Dyfyd, and what now is Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire and Cardiganshire. So no Swansea is not west. Also as far as population centres go in the west, Llanelli is the largest town followed by Milford Haven. And Milford Haven is further west than Haverfordwest (shich you discribed as the western limit of Swansea to Hwest).

I am from the true west of wales, and it is pretty insulting for folk to keep on banging on about Swansea being west. How would folk feel if I were to keep banging on about Cardiff being in England, as its nearer England than it is to me, so that must make it England.

Casartelli wrote:And in 1974, Swansea was incorporated into the new WEST Glamorgan.

WEST.

So Cardiff is west too? After all there is a Cardiff WEST services!!!!!!

oxring wrote:I genuinely believe that regional rugby is good for the Welsh game - and that returning the game to the clubs will harm the results of our national team. The regions have overseen higher standards of professionalism and the development of youth since their inception. If that could be maintained across 8 or 9 clubs - I would be all in favour - but I don't believe it can. The talent pool would become diluted - not only that and teams would end up becoming too reliatnt upon foreign imports to hold the fort. Not good for the Welsh game.

THAT SAID - the current marketing of the regions is pretty hopeless. There needs to be more involvement in schools, more encouragement in the local area. Kids need to identify.

For the first time in my life - I have been genuinely positive about the direction the WRU has been taking the game in Wales. Since Lewis took the helm, in fact, things have been steadily more positive. Equally - I cannot remember a time I was more depressed about the business decisions of what should be our two "premier" regions - based upon squad size and wealth - the Blues and the Ospreys.

The Scarlets and the Dragons have done well - B+ standard in terms of marketing and development - based largely around bringing on youth exceptionally well.

The Ospreys development of players is sad to see - they seem to take genuine talents and make them worse. When was the last time Gareth Owen had a good game (I know he's missing an ACL at the moment - but before that)? When he played under Lyn Jones away at Leinster he looked a class act - had plenty of time on the ball, a decent sidestep of either foot and decent distributive skills. Under Holley/Johnson - first he had to lose any particular position by playing fullback/centre/flyhalf/wherever else - until his form suffered and he hasn't come back. We had a decent young scrum half in Webb - so we bought Fotuali'i - who, although he has done better recently - was utterly awful initially and still relegated Webb to the bench.

Now I know that I don't get to see what goes on in training - and I don't get to see the commitment of the players - but how is that supposed to bring on the development of youth? I don't want to turn up to see young talent get steadily worse.

As for the Blues - I don't want to see some Scots carthorse kick away fantastic position on a cold wet November night. I'll stay at home at watch it on S4C instead - and the beer is cheaper too.

Until the Blues and the Ospreys start to connect with their fanbase - they aren't going to attract new fans.

Some good points there.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

Casartelli wrote:And Swansea is most certainly 'west'.

To be honest west is what used to be called Dyfyd, and what now is Pembrokeshire, Carmarthenshire and Cardiganshire. So no Swansea is not west. Also as far as population centres go in the west, Llanelli is the largest town followed by Milford Haven. And Milford Haven is further west than Haverfordwest (shich you discribed as the western limit of Swansea to Hwest).

I am from the true west of wales, and it is pretty insulting for folk to keep on banging on about Swansea being west. How would folk feel if I were to keep banging on about Cardiff being in England, as its nearer England than it is to me, so that must make it England.

Apologies - Huw Edwards is on telly at the moment explaining west v east Wales and it appears my friends in Llanelli are correct - they west and Swansea is east.

It's to do with a law passed in 1961 on Sunday drinking. Which is as good a thing as anything to base the future of the regions on. I've emailed Roger Lewis.

maestegmafia wrote:Since regional rugby started in 2003 these results have been achieved by the all four of the regions:

- 7 Quarter-finals in Europe

I count 8 QFs. Maybe I'm wrong

SecretFly wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:Since regional rugby started in 2003 these results have been achieved by the all four of the regions:

- 7 Quarter-finals in Europe

I count 8 QFs. Maybe I'm wrong

Maybe right. My maths isn't spectacular. Usually OK counting up to ten.

all very good points made above, just to add my tuppence worth...

MoG the dragons are attempting to capitalise on danny- note 'Dannys Grand Slam Give away' a marketing ploy in which u16's go free when accompanied by two adults paying ten pound a ticket. Although this seems like giving money away, the game is against Connaught so is really difficult to attract a crowd, so if we can play a good brand of rugby withthe full squad we now have we could hook a few youngsters to coming again

furthermore on the dragons i believe more needs to be done to embrace hte region...and it needs an action, a symbol if you will. If you take one or two games away from rodney parade...even if your reducing your revenue....you are making a bold statement to the people of gwent 'we are your region' 'we want you to be part of this' i believe the region has the moral high ground then....they have tried to extend there arm to the fans around gwent

furthermore the ebbw vale ground has a capacity of 8k according to wiki as does pontypool park less than the dragons average atm anyway

maestegmafia wrote:

oxring wrote:I genuinely believe that regional rugby is good for the Welsh game - and that returning the game to the clubs will harm the results of our national team. The regions have overseen higher standards of professionalism and the development of youth since their inception. If that could be maintained across 8 or 9 clubs - I would be all in favour - but I don't believe it can. The talent pool would become diluted - not only that and teams would end up becoming too reliatnt upon foreign imports to hold the fort. Not good for the Welsh game.

THAT SAID - the current marketing of the regions is pretty hopeless. There needs to be more involvement in schools, more encouragement in the local area. Kids need to identify.

For the first time in my life - I have been genuinely positive about the direction the WRU has been taking the game in Wales. Since Lewis took the helm, in fact, things have been steadily more positive. Equally - I cannot remember a time I was more depressed about the business decisions of what should be our two "premier" regions - based upon squad size and wealth - the Blues and the Ospreys.

The Scarlets and the Dragons have done well - B+ standard in terms of marketing and development - based largely around bringing on youth exceptionally well.

The Ospreys development of players is sad to see - they seem to take genuine talents and make them worse. When was the last time Gareth Owen had a good game (I know he's missing an ACL at the moment - but before that)? When he played under Lyn Jones away at Leinster he looked a class act - had plenty of time on the ball, a decent sidestep of either foot and decent distributive skills. Under Holley/Johnson - first he had to lose any particular position by playing fullback/centre/flyhalf/wherever else - until his form suffered and he hasn't come back. We had a decent young scrum half in Webb - so we bought Fotuali'i - who, although he has done better recently - was utterly awful initially and still relegated Webb to the bench.

Now I know that I don't get to see what goes on in training - and I don't get to see the commitment of the players - but how is that supposed to bring on the development of youth? I don't want to turn up to see young talent get steadily worse.

As for the Blues - I don't want to see some Scots carthorse kick away fantastic position on a cold wet November night. I'll stay at home at watch it on S4C instead - and the beer is cheaper too.

Until the Blues and the Ospreys start to connect with their fanbase - they aren't going to attract new fans.

Some good points there.

Where? I can't see any.

oxring wrote:I genuinely believe that regional rugby is good for the Welsh game - and that returning the game to the clubs will harm the results of our national team.

Who's your team oxring?

Cardiff Dave wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

oxring wrote:I genuinely believe that regional rugby is good for the Welsh game - and that returning the game to the clubs will harm the results of our national team. The regions have overseen higher standards of professionalism and the development of youth since their inception. If that could be maintained across 8 or 9 clubs - I would be all in favour - but I don't believe it can. The talent pool would become diluted - not only that and teams would end up becoming too reliatnt upon foreign imports to hold the fort. Not good for the Welsh game.

THAT SAID - the current marketing of the regions is pretty hopeless. There needs to be more involvement in schools, more encouragement in the local area. Kids need to identify.

For the first time in my life - I have been genuinely positive about the direction the WRU has been taking the game in Wales. Since Lewis took the helm, in fact, things have been steadily more positive. Equally - I cannot remember a time I was more depressed about the business decisions of what should be our two "premier" regions - based upon squad size and wealth - the Blues and the Ospreys.

The Scarlets and the Dragons have done well - B+ standard in terms of marketing and development - based largely around bringing on youth exceptionally well.

The Ospreys development of players is sad to see - they seem to take genuine talents and make them worse. When was the last time Gareth Owen had a good game (I know he's missing an ACL at the moment - but before that)? When he played under Lyn Jones away at Leinster he looked a class act - had plenty of time on the ball, a decent sidestep of either foot and decent distributive skills. Under Holley/Johnson - first he had to lose any particular position by playing fullback/centre/flyhalf/wherever else - until his form suffered and he hasn't come back. We had a decent young scrum half in Webb - so we bought Fotuali'i - who, although he has done better recently - was utterly awful initially and still relegated Webb to the bench.

Now I know that I don't get to see what goes on in training - and I don't get to see the commitment of the players - but how is that supposed to bring on the development of youth? I don't want to turn up to see young talent get steadily worse.

As for the Blues - I don't want to see some Scots carthorse kick away fantastic position on a cold wet November night. I'll stay at home at watch it on S4C instead - and the beer is cheaper too.

Until the Blues and the Ospreys start to connect with their fanbase - they aren't going to attract new fans.

Some good points there.

Where? I can't see any.

You not able to see things? I am surprised mate... You seem so lucid