New Zealand vs Ireland: Predict the series result.

First topic message reminder :

Many may think the All Blacks are vulnerable with having a new coach in Steve Hansen, they also think the All Blacks may be suffering from a post world cup "hangover.

There hasn't been that many retirees, only Mills Muliaina and Brad Thorn by my recollection and as ever the All Blacks won't struggle to replace them, of course the experience will be missed.

They also have some players still injured or only coming back from injury layoffs, such as Tony Woodcock, Richie McCaw and Dan Carter.

Ireland just finished a dissappointing Six Nations by their standard and will want to break the duck against the all BLacks sooner rather than later. But with their midfield struggling and their scrum pulverised by England in their last six Nations test, there has beena call to arms that Declan Kidney is not the man for the job, and the lack of back up in the front row was Ireland's downfall against England. The other concern is the poor form of D'Arcy and the injury lay off of Brian O'Driscoll.

I personally think Ireland is in for a torrid time in New ZEaland and will once again walk away from their tour with no result in the win column.

Ireland has played 29 tests against the SH giants and won only 3, their last win was against Australia in 1979.

leinsterbaby wrote:Australia are the easiest place to tour if you ask me. Samoa have won there recently plus Australia in my opinion despite being champions are the weakest tri nations team if not slightly better than SA. That said I'd rather play in Sydney or Brisbane in front of 5k Irish fans than up a mountain in SA v 80k bloodthirsty saffas.

I'm pretty sure there were only Samoans in the crowd that day and it was virtually a 'B' team so can we all just agree never to mention that game again as if it never happened? Cheers.

I hope Ireland can make a fist of it but I think they'll be doing well to get within 10. Who knows? They might devise a cunning plan and implement it to perfection catching the kiwi's off guard. My judgement may be clouded because Aus have copped so many floggings over there and I'm confusing Irelands prospects with my own teams.

I really do believe that Ireland have it in them to get one win against the AB's.

leinsterbaby wrote:Australia are the easiest place to tour if you ask me. Samoa have won there recently plus Australia in my opinion despite being champions are the weakest tri nations team if not slightly better than SA. That said I'd rather play in Sydney or Brisbane in front of 5k Irish fans than up a mountain in SA v 80k bloodthirsty saffas.

I quite like that, but to be fair, we don't live on a mountain, it is just the highveldt. interspersed with the odd 2000 mile coastline.

biltongbek wrote:

leinsterbaby wrote:Australia are the easiest place to tour if you ask me. Samoa have won there recently plus Australia in my opinion despite being champions are the weakest tri nations team if not slightly better than SA. That said I'd rather play in Sydney or Brisbane in front of 5k Irish fans than up a mountain in SA v 80k bloodthirsty saffas.

I quite like that, but to be fair, we don't live on a mountain, it is just the highveldt. interspersed with the odd 2000 mile coastline.

Meaning SA is a mountain........... just too big to technically call it one.

Ah, you mean figuratively?

well in that case i would want us to be mount everest. allways wanted to go there.

biltongbek wrote:Ah, you mean figuratively?

well in that case i would want us to be mount everest. allways wanted to go there.

I read a interview with an Irish climber who made it. He always wanted to do it, got it done and said he really didn't know how to feel when he was up there. He didn't feel the way he thought he would....plus, he said he witnessed some very disquieting displays of man's inhumanity to man up there on that mountain when the drive for the summit releases the baser instincts. It soured him, left a bad taste in his mouth and he's happy to climb lesser mountains now - doesn't want to ever go back to everest.

There is a message in that you know.

This SA mountain is not for climbing, only to admire from afar.

Ah yes...it is a puff and a pant place to go...but if the team wear the aqualungs during games they should manage a few draws.

Ireland doesn't go to SA because last time they went 3 of them stayed behind and are still there - inc Ireland's full quota of SHs - at least that is my theory

Biltong knows my theory as to why Ireland dont feel like travelling to SA

eirebilly wrote:Biltong knows my theory as to why Ireland dont feel like travelling to SA

Come on, share it with us...there's only three of us here, billy. Nobody else will know.

Croyman wrote:Ireland doesn't go to SA because last time they went 3 of them stayed behind and are still there - inc Ireland's full quota of SHs - at least that is my theory

I know John Robbie stayed behind, but who can blame him, we have sunshine, meat, sandy beaches and hot woman.

SecretFly wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Biltong knows my theory as to why Ireland dont feel like travelling to SA

Come on, share it with us...there's only three of us here, billy. Nobody else will know.

cuase they are afraid to come.

aucklandlaurie wrote:Jamie Joseph,John Kirwan,Todd Blackadder

The next Forwards, Attack and Head coach for NZ in one line!

Personally, I'm not comfortable with Hansen, let alone Foster but I want them to succeed but I'm not going to come on here hoping NZ lose games so they get the sack....and I'm not saying anybody else is/will by the way!

biltongbek wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Biltong knows my theory as to why Ireland dont feel like travelling to SA

Come on, share it with us...there's only three of us here, billy. Nobody else will know.

cuase they are afraid to come and embarrass us.

Fixed that for you, free of charge

yep I believe John Robbie has an edgy TV show of some sort -

also I seem to remember Colin Patterson and a second row forward whose name I can't recall

eirebilly wrote:

biltongbek wrote:

SecretFly wrote:

eirebilly wrote:Biltong knows my theory as to why Ireland dont feel like travelling to SA

Come on, share it with us...there's only three of us here, billy. Nobody else will know.

cuase they are afraid to come and embarrass us.

Fixed that for you, free of charge

You do know I have SUPA POWERs, I can delete that whole part of the conersation with the click of a button.

Croyman wrote:yep I believe John Robbie has an edgy TV show of some sort -

also I seem to remember Colin Patterson and a second row forward whose name I can't recall

John Robbie is a big radio personality in SA, he is also on super rugby as a commentator.


Most of the time though he is opinionated.

biltongbek wrote:

Croyman wrote:yep I believe John Robbie has an edgy TV show of some sort -

also I seem to remember Colin Patterson and a second row forward whose name I can't recall

John Robbie is a big radio personality in SA, he is also on super rugby as a commentator.


Most of the time though he is opinionated.

His son worked in Ulster Bank in Dublin. Worked with him for a while. Nice guy.

John Robbie did the best rugby wise - think he got on the bench for the Springboks??? Got a Blue at Cambridge - I watched him in the Varsity Match at Twickenham - looked a classy player for about ten minutes and then a large forward sat on him and he didn't do much after that -

I think his show is well known for saying what many might think unsayable in SA

John robbie actually played for the Lions (Transvaal) in the 80's

It was a rather successful time for them then, and he was a very good scrum half.

Sadly because of isolation we didn't play much test rugby in that time

SecretFly wrote:

Pot Hale wrote:One win would be the same as no win. Loser mentality.

Two wins minimum or don't bother going. Three victories should be the target.

Nice attitude but attitude won't win three games, I'm afraid. We'll still need to back that up with a game that stands a chance. But let's run with your point for a while. We'll say Ireland should go with a target of three victories and I assume the Winning mentality is that the fans do their part too by crowing about it in advance?

Yeah - and the world and our neighbours in Europe are going to be impressed with the chest thumping? No, they'll enjoy smirking at the dumb deluded Irish. They'll also take particular pleasure in laughing openly when the winning mentality is driven into the New Zeland dirt.

We're not going to fall for that one. Modesty will do us for now

Modesty be damned. Attitude is largely irrelevant if not led or shaped by behaviour.

The fans do their part too? Meh - the fans are largely irrelevant too. I don't care what the world or our neighbours think - neither should the team. Start winning on the pitch (behaviour) and they'll fall in behind you. Didn't say anything about chest thumping in advance. Just deliver on the pitch. Like they do (normally) against England or did against Australia and Italy in RWC. Of course, NZ is a tough ask. But June is as good a time as any to go and achieve victories.

Everything else is window dressing and elevenses gossip.

No more JawJaw - I want WarWar!

Pot Hale wrote:

No more JawJaw - I want WarWar!

But this is JawJaw time. And most of us will only have JawJaw to go on -even as the players play.

Your point Pot was that you didn't want any talk of what Ireland might get, you don't want to hear what you might describe as defeatest talk, you believe 1 game won is nothing won.

I say, fine - robust attitude, resolute conviction - but its still only JawJaw. The players will decide what they want, how many games they want, and we'll all still be here JawJawing about the results or lack of them.

No, I won't be saying WarWar, 3 from 3 - because as a JawJaw, I don't believe it - and my not believing it won't effect whether or not the players win three games, thankfully. I wish 3 games but I don't believe it.

no - seriously - he was quite a classy player as I recall - good to watch

Taylorman and Auckland Laurie.

Why the negativity regarding Hansen?
If my memory serves me correctly there were similar feelings w.r.t G Henry
post RWC 2007 which now is generally glossed over.

As for the other contenders u mentioned

1. Deans + Gatland were contractually bound.
2. Kirwan? Hardly a stellar career with Japan, Italy Auckland
3. Joseph, Blackadder etc. Too soon. (Remember John Mitchell?)
4. ????
Lets give him a season before hes pre-judged

Gunner wrote:Lets give him a season before hes pre-judged

Unfortunately gunner, I think the boys have it the right way round. They're pre-judging him before the season. Oh I'm only kidding, I know what you mean. I guess it's the nerves that comes when something successful get's a new boss. The top is already achieved so the new boss can in reality only fall or maintain stability.

[quote="SecretFly"]

Gunner wrote:Lets give him a season before hes pre-judged

Unfortunately gunner, I think the boys have it the right way round. They're pre-judging him before the season. Oh I'm only kidding, I know what you mean.

I had to think about that for a few minutes "SF".
TBH prejudging is somewhat more preferable to the four-yearly cycle of bloodletting thats been the norm since November 1991!!!!

Gunner wrote:Taylorman and Auckland Laurie.

Why the negativity regarding Hansen?
If my memory serves me correctly there were similar feelings w.r.t G Henry
post RWC 2007 which now is generally glossed over.

As for the other contenders u mentioned

1. Deans + Gatland were contractually bound.
2. Kirwan? Hardly a stellar career with Japan, Italy Auckland
3. Joseph, Blackadder etc. Too soon. (Remember John Mitchell?)
4. ????
Lets give him a season before hes pre-judged

I was firmly in the GH camp in 2007 and have been since GHs 80s Auckland days. Best coach bar none in my books.

The names mentioned for AB coach are long term. Up to 10-15 years from now.

With Hansen its part gut feel. Part post henry blues. Henry set a standard few will ever reach. Ive never looked at Hansen and said...'Gee...what a good coach".

Hes ridden in on the back of others and it seems when he tried radical ideas in Wales although he had success in 'silo's' the trade off were losses.

Just dont think the required passion is in this one. We've had poor coaches...usually those with insecurity and ego and hansen has it written all over him.

But youre right. Everyone deserves a chance. Hansen just needs to know Henry had set the bar high and the NZ rugby public will be watching him closely.

I was firmly in the GH camp in 2007 and have been since GHs 80s Auckland days. Best coach bar none in my books.

The names mentioned for AB coach are long term. Up to 10-15 years from now.

With Hansen its part gut feel. Part post henry blues. Henry set a standard few will ever reach. Ive never looked at Hansen and said...'Gee...what a good coach".

Hes ridden in on the back of others and it seems when he tried radical ideas in Wales although he had success in 'silo's' the trade off were losses.

Just dont think the required passion is in this one. We've had poor coaches...usually those with insecurity and ego and hansen has it written all over him.

But youre right. Everyone deserves a chance. Hansen just needs to know Henry had set the bar high and the NZ rugby public will be watching him closely.

[/quote]

T'Man.

If not Hansen who would you have chosen as your preferred AB coach?
There didnt seem 2 be a whole lot of available contenders?

Taylorman wanted PDV

I'd have Dingo Deans (if available) any day. I understand Gatland has stepped on too many toes to get the NZ job any time soon but I think he's a better coach too.

And I would love it if Wayne Smith re-discovered the motivation to be a head coach (he only got the sack in 2001 because he admitted publically that he had doubts)

It's not just Hansen you see. Ian Foster doesn't exactly inspire confidence either given his record at the Chiefs.

I thimk that Wayne Smith would be a good call for the AB's. The time wasnt right when he first had the job be he is a lot more experienced now.

Let me ask the doubters this?Hansen was part of the most successful Coaching team ever.Of the RWC squad,Muliana[Dagg?],Thorn[Donnelly?] and Kaino[Thomson].Are missing,Cowan who is out of form is also away,BUT the 9`s and 10`s are lining up.
You may not like the man or his co -coaches BUT do you anticipate a malaise
that has stricken.Other recent RWC winners,do you forecast for example Ireland winning there tour.NZ losing nearly all there 4N matches,plus a AI where they lose nearly all there matches.
If so I`d like some of what you`re smoking,since the 14/15 match formatt the AllBlacks have lost ior two matches a year.Even 2009 there worst injury ridden they won.More than the All conquering Boks and were againIRB number one side before the end of it.
True at the moment NZ teams have a lot of injuries,BUT Carter back,Captain Tackles back.At full fitness the last 4 years Under20`s teams coming to fruition.
I still back NZ to drop no more than a couple of matches at worst,they`ve only dropped about 33 in the Pro Era.
Hansen and [with due respect]the depth he had in Wales and in NZ is too different things.The 4Ns draw means the AB`s finish up at Home,few sides win there.

Alan for AB coach! His knowledge of the game alone warrants selection.

I have gone for 3-0 to the AB after seeing the performance against England, the AB will target the scrum I suspect, I hope there is no injury at TH in the first game or it could be a long tour.

eirebilly wrote:I thimk that Wayne Smith would be a good call for the AB's. The time wasnt right when he first had the job be he is a lot more experienced now.

No, we'll keep him for ourselves if we can cough up money in a few months time if we go even more pear shaped than now!

Well obviously that would be the better choice for Smith as well Fly

Gunner
John Kirwan might look like an innnocent guy,but underneath it there is a very determined rugby man that expects nothing but the utmost committment in fitness and hard work in improving the skill set, Japan scored more tries in the World cup than they ever had before,plus they had less scored against them.

Jamie Joseph is he equivalent to kirwan just apply it to coaching forwards.

Gatland and Deans:contracts can teminate especially when something like a coach of the All Blacks job is about,Gatty's problem is that at the moment with wales he is in a very good place,but no bridges with Hamilton have been burnt.

My main concern with Hansen is the moment something goes wrong he cant learn and rectify/improve from it,Did Henry have him on board just to keep the Cantabrian sector happy? I dont know,but it has crossed my mind several time over the last couple of years.

I always was a Graham Henry supporter,even when was at Auckland Grammar,Kelston Boys High,and University.

emack2 wrote:Let me ask the doubters this?Hansen was part of the most successful Coaching team ever.Of the RWC squad,Muliana[Dagg?],Thorn[Donnelly?] and Kaino[Thomson].Are missing,Cowan who is out of form is also away,BUT the 9`s and 10`s are lining up.
You may not like the man or his co -coaches BUT do you anticipate a malaise
that has stricken.Other recent RWC winners,do you forecast for example Ireland winning there tour.NZ losing nearly all there 4N matches,plus a AI where they lose nearly all there matches.
If so I`d like some of what you`re smoking,since the 14/15 match formatt the AllBlacks have lost ior two matches a year.Even 2009 there worst injury ridden they won.More than the All conquering Boks and were againIRB number one side before the end of it.
True at the moment NZ teams have a lot of injuries,BUT Carter back,Captain Tackles back.At full fitness the last 4 years Under20`s teams coming to fruition.
I still back NZ to drop no more than a couple of matches at worst,they`ve only dropped about 33 in the Pro Era.
Hansen and [with due respect]the depth he had in Wales and in NZ is too different things.The 4Ns draw means the AB`s finish up at Home,few sides win there.

Totally agree that the difference in strength between Wales under Hansen and NZ now makes his job a whole lot easier. However, he made his job much more difficult with Wales. Some of the players liked him and have remained close to him. So much so it was a divisive influence on the squad after he left, somthing that he deliberatly cultivated. As welsh coach his record speaks for itself, longest ever losing streak, first ever six nations whitewash, record defeats to the Home Nations. Humilation at home against an England second string. His reign was littered with stubborn tactical decisions, poor selection, cliques in the team and premature retirement of players despondent with him as head coach. Whilst Wales' expectations were lower then we still expected to win against some teams and not be worried playing against romania! On top of that he is the least media friendly coach I have ever seen, he alienated the whole welsh press, terrestial and printed. When the pressure was on he did not cope with it and if the press is hounding him as well he will stubbornly entrench rather than listening to reason. All in all if I could wipe his name and Ron Waldrons off the names of Wales coaches then the 20 years to 2005 wouldnt have been so humiliating.

3-0 to Ireland
Kidney to resign and Joe (messiah) Schmidt gets called up, takes the leinster u20s to New Zealand and outscores the ABs by 50 tries to 1 through scintillating backplay...the leinster way

Smokin'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When does it all start? Can't wait! I knew the IRFU would realise the true potential of U20s + Schmidt! Good call - finally.

Thought you might like that idea fly...

Geoff - I agree Ferris definitely needs to stay at home. I'd also be tempted to leave Ross behind as well. Ireland have to find alternatives at tighthead and there is no good time to start but this is probably as good as any.

aucklandlaurie wrote: Gunner
John Kirwan might look like an innnocent guy,but underneath it there is a very determined rugby man that expects nothing but the utmost committment in fitness and hard work in improving the skill set, Japan scored more tries in the World cup than they ever had before,plus they had less scored against them.

Jamie Joseph is he equivalent to kirwan just apply it to coaching forwards.

Gatland and Deans:contracts can teminate especially when something like a coach of the All Blacks job is about,Gatty's problem is that at the moment with wales he is in a very good place,but no bridges with Hamilton have been burnt.

My main concern with Hansen is the moment something goes wrong he cant learn and rectify/improve from it,Did Henry have him on board just to keep the Cantabrian sector happy? I dont know,but it has crossed my mind several time over the last couple of years.

I always was a Graham Henry supporter,even when was at Auckland Grammar,Kelston Boys High,and University.

Auck Laurie.

I dont doubt the determination that JK has.
The work that he has done in the area of mental health certainly takes guts and i like
the fact that whatever job JK takes he also learns the language (he speaks excellent Italian+Japanese)
But for me his coaching record doesnt warrant being All Black coach.
For me i think Gatland will be next cab of the rank. following that well-worn path of Wales to AB coach.
deans popularity has probably waned somewhat during his tenure as Aust coach. (I dunno if the provincial ties of
coaches are quite so important now in the eyes of both administrators or supporters). his coachin style seems to have
plenty of detractors on bth sides of Tasman.

Now i gotta ride to one of few bars available to see if H'landers can make it 5 from 5!
we got a few contenders for AB debuts or recalls. Smith (B+A), Gear, Berkhuis.
Also Haskell gets start 2day.
Cmon Blue!! (or maybe green today)

Sadly I think we'll lose 3-0, but feel they will be close tests.

Be amazing to win win the series.

Be great to win 1 test(our first win against the AB's especially away).

Would make for a great series if we pulled off a win in the first test.

But think I may be living in fantasy land.

Maybe if we add a few more Connacht lads we'll have a chance

With three provinces in the HEC shakeup and there or thereabouts in the League finale, the Ireland players are playing far too much rugby to expect them to then go to NZ and be competitive. That's why Ireland really should be resting their important players this summer.

The trouble is that Kidney knows if he gets a first ever win against the ABs, he keeps his job. So he will pick a bunch of tired players in the vain hope that he can pull it off, and by so doing impinge badly on the next season, with probably more major injuries and still few alternative players.

I thought Kirwan's missus was Italian so that's why he learned the lingo. Kudos to him for learning Japanese as well though there aren't too many of us trilingual Kiwis.

I agree that Hansen and especially Foster don't fill me with confidence. I'd prefer Kirwan with the backs and Joseph with the forwards. Hansen is the logical choice though and I'm sure he's learnt a lot from Henry as he was obviously right there in the mix. Henry's a hard act to follow. I was in his camp in 07 too and I'm pleased that it was vindicated. However if Deans got the job I would have hoped that he would be vindicated too!

Shame the Highlanders didn't do the business. They've got some real talent and hope they keep their form up. Canberra's not the easiest place in the world to win. That'd be the Basin Reserve at the mo eh Biltong well if the weather holds up!

Hoping that the 9s and 10s in NZ keep their form up. Wouldn't mind seeing one of them in black against Ireland-especially as Smith in particular gets the ball to the 10 quicker than any of them.

A scary thought-Carter still seems to have all the time in the world despite having to deal with Marshall's and Weepu's passes for a lot of tests. Imagine if he had someone with the passing of Tonu'u inside him.