Gatland gets Lions job

by maestegmafia Sun 25 Mar 2012, 3:33 am

It is understood that Gatland, who has guided Wales to the Six Nations Grand Slam this season, has been offered the job following an interview for the position in London on Wednesday.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/international/britishandirishlionsrugby/9165345/Wales-coach-Warren-Gatland-offered-Lions-job-for-2013.html

by EngInAuck Sun 25 Mar 2012, 6:19 am

The Best candidate by far.

Hopefully he will re-unite the 2009 coaches Edwards and Rowntree. All 3 of them did a amazing job in 09 and were Incredibly unlucky not to win the series (Biltong may disagree).

How do you Welsh feel about potentially having your head coach un-available for next years 6nations?

by Shifty Sun 25 Mar 2012, 7:11 am

EngInAuck wrote:How do you Welsh feel about potentially having your head coach un-available for next years 6nations?

I'm sickened by it to be honest, every time Wales do well the Lions go out and hurt us. We were doing well until the 2001 Lions selected Henry as head coach, while all our players came back from the 2005 Lions tour injured or with their moral shot to pieces.

I really hate the Lions and wish they'd die a quick death, Wales always do terribly in the season following a Lions tour. mad

Anyone with half a brain would put lots of money on a French Grand Slam in the 6 Nations after a Lions tour because they ALWAYS win the championship ad nearly always win the slam.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 25 Mar 2012, 8:37 am

AlynDavies wrote:
EngInAuck wrote:How do you Welsh feel about potentially having your head coach un-available for next years 6nations?

I'm sickened by it to be honest, every time Wales do well the Lions go out and hurt us. We were doing well until the 2001 Lions selected Henry as head coach, while all our players came back from the 2005 Lions tour injured or with their moral shot to pieces.

I really hate the Lions and wish they'd die a quick death, Wales always do terribly in the season following a Lions tour.

Anyone with half a brain would put lots of money on a French Grand Slam in the 6 Nations after a Lions tour because they ALWAYS win the championship ad nearly always win the slam.

A shame you feel that way about the Lions Alyn. Surely it's not just the Welsh players that get injured during a tour & for me the Lions are as important if not more so than the 6Ns.
Take that one step further do you begrudge your Region supplying players to Wales?

by emack2 Sun 25 Mar 2012, 8:42 am

The Lions is a tradition well worth preserving,it is the ONLY link to an Honourable past.Henry 2001 Lions tour was sabotaged by a players revolt they COULD
have won that one.
Henry despite many criticisms from Welsh Supporters laid the foundations for
the Grand Slam successes,a fact acknowledgedby his successors.Wales also
enjoyed there only success versus the Boks under him.
It is tradition THE strongest NH side forms the backbone of a Lions side and
often the Coach.Gatland is good Coach[not a bad player in his day either].
How many Welsh Supporters were calling for his sacking Pre RWC ?quite a few
I seem to recall.[on here and 606].
I hope the IRB insist that the intinery is on traditional lines i,e. Provincial matches and Tests intermingled.That International players by the home side include
ALL available players.
NOT as shamefully occurred in 2009 ,SA test players were shielded from injury,whilst Lions were exposed to it.
NOR that the tests are played at the end of the tour,a break with tradition.
Now that Tours are back in fashion,a pity they are not as fomally,with
provincial as well as Test series included.
That would give fring e players on both sides games and experience against
international opponents.

by EngInAuck Sun 25 Mar 2012, 8:54 am

AlynDavies wrote:
EngInAuck wrote:How do you Welsh feel about potentially having your head coach un-available for next years 6nations?

I'm sickened by it to be honest, every time Wales do well the Lions go out and hurt us. We were doing well until the 2001 Lions selected Henry as head coach, while all our players came back from the 2005 Lions tour injured or with their moral shot to pieces.

I really hate the Lions and wish they'd die a quick death, Wales always do terribly in the season following a Lions tour.

Anyone with half a brain would put lots of money on a French Grand Slam in the 6 Nations after a Lions tour because they ALWAYS win the championship ad nearly always win the slam.

Every Country that contributes gets players back tired and injured, but in my view Lions Tours are the pinnacle of international rugby and are worth way more than the cost of going into 1 6nations every 4 years with some players unavailable because of injuries sustained on tour.

by majesticimperialman Sun 25 Mar 2012, 9:38 am

Well alot of Welsh fans and players i might had, have been saying that they Gatland to be lions coach. Well now they have their wish, i do hope that the players that are taken on the lions tour, are the ones that are on form and not by reputation. Dispite what country they are from./

by bedfordwelsh Sun 25 Mar 2012, 10:02 am

I love the Lions and everything about it, I have been privileged enough to go to all the countries on a Lions tour and hopefully going back to Oz next year.

For me its not just the rugby itst he whole package, meeting friends old and new, see the players in different environments and seeing who prosper and who struggle etc.

As for Gatland getting the job, well if he does good luck to him but as a Welsh fan I am a little apprehensive to say thet least, especially after the Henry affair in 01.

The WRU have come out and said that if he does get job then Howley and McBryde will take the reigns for next 6 years nations which is good for the continuity I guess.

by thebluesmancometh Sun 25 Mar 2012, 10:19 am

I'm actually quite excited by the loss of Gatland, I was one of very few trying to calm everyone on our losing streak as I thought Gatland was changing our style of play and tailoring it toward facing 3 very physical sides in our WC group, as it went I thought we would make the 1/4, but that physical edge did even better.

Now he will take a year out I think it'll be good for Wales development to be coached by a welshmen, we talk about blooding players in but when do we get a chance to try out a new welsh man at the helm, or maybe even numerous welshmen at the helm.

I'd like to see 3/4 coaches given the chance to lead Wales next year, 1 for the 6N Howley, and one to assist Young. Then Young takes control of Howleys GP, and Nigel Davies comes in to assist him. I'd like to see Edwards in there somewhere too.

I know it sounds stupid, but the likes of Young, Howley and Davies are our only real options post Gatland, and Edwards could be a cracking coach also. Lets give them some int experience and they can take it back to their clubs. In general coaches tend to not want to teach other coaches, I think we should change this in Wales and all work together!

by maestegmafia Sun 25 Mar 2012, 11:38 am

thebluesmancometh wrote:I'm actually quite excited by the loss of Gatland, I was one of very few trying to calm everyone on our losing streak as I thought Gatland was changing our style of play and tailoring it toward facing 3 very physical sides in our WC group, as it went I thought we would make the 1/4, but that physical edge did even better.

Now he will take a year out I think it'll be good for Wales development to be coached by a welshmen, we talk about blooding players in but when do we get a chance to try out a new welsh man at the helm, or maybe even numerous welshmen at the helm.

I'd like to see 3/4 coaches given the chance to lead Wales next year, 1 for the 6N Howley, and one to assist Young. Then Young takes control of Howleys GP, and Nigel Davies comes in to assist him. I'd like to see Edwards in there somewhere too.

I know it sounds stupid, but the likes of Young, Howley and Davies are our only real options post Gatland, and Edwards could be a cracking coach also. Lets give them some int experience and they can take it back to their clubs. In general coaches tend to not want to teach other coaches, I think we should change this in Wales and all work together!

I agree.

It will be very good for coaching development. From what I have read the Lions Management only want the head coach to step down. Edwards and Howley, who are likely to join Gatland in Australia next sumer with the Lions, will continue their jobs for Wales.

I would like to see Nigel Davies come in to the Welsh set up. He is a good coach, I don't rate Dai Young so much.

by bedfordwelsh Sun 25 Mar 2012, 12:33 pm

Nigel Davies would be good but would he want to go back in as a prt timer as such, if you are going to bring a Welsh born forwards coach in the for me it would be Kingsley Jones but he still has duties with Russia.

by maestegmafia Sun 25 Mar 2012, 1:28 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Nigel Davies would be good but would he want to go back in as a prt timer as such, if you are going to bring a Welsh born forwards coach in the for me it would be Kingsley Jones but he still has duties with Russia.

I know Kingsley gets plenty of commendations but I have never seen any evidence of him being a good coach. Sale were an average team never acheived much with him, especially when times got tough and they had lost their top players.

by eirebilly Sun 25 Mar 2012, 2:59 pm

Well to be honest he is the best man for the job but if i was a Welsh fan i would be a little upset at the prospect of him not taking control for the next 6N.

I love the Lions tours so long may they continue Very Happy

by asoreleftshoulder Sun 25 Mar 2012, 3:06 pm

Yeah I think he's the right appointment for the Lions but if he stays on as Wales coach he now has a very fine line to walk.

He has to pick a squad and team that's the best mix of all the available talent without upsetting the Welsh players.I hope he can do it without compromising but it'll be very tough to get right.

by Cymroglan Sun 25 Mar 2012, 3:08 pm

It's a good thing that the other coaches in the Welsh setup get a opportunity show us what they are capable of doing sooner rather than later.
Gatland will more than likely move on after the next WC and while he is away with the Lions we will see if we have a successor within our ranks or do we need to bring somebody else to take charge after Gatland's contract comes to a end.

by Cymroglan Sun 25 Mar 2012, 3:11 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:Yeah I think he's the right appointment for the Lions but if he stays on as Wales coach he now has a very fine line to walk.

He has to pick a squad and team that's the best mix of all the available talent without upsetting the Welsh players.I hope he can do it without compromising but it'll be very tough to get right.

The current Welsh squad know that they wont be selected and wont expect to be selected unless they are not on top of their game.

by asoreleftshoulder Sun 25 Mar 2012, 3:18 pm

Cymroglan wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:Yeah I think he's the right appointment for the Lions but if he stays on as Wales coach he now has a very fine line to walk.

He has to pick a squad and team that's the best mix of all the available talent without upsetting the Welsh players.I hope he can do it without compromising but it'll be very tough to get right.

The current Welsh squad know that they wont be selected and wont expect to be selected unless they are not on top of their game.

I hope you're right but you've nothing concrete to base that statement on,it's unlikely that every Welsh player will react the same way.

It might not be an issue but there's no way of knowing until the team is picked.

by Sin é Sun 25 Mar 2012, 3:36 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:I'm actually quite excited by the loss of Gatland, I was one of very few trying to calm everyone on our losing streak as I thought Gatland was changing our style of play and tailoring it toward facing 3 very physical sides in our WC group, as it went I thought we would make the 1/4, but that physical edge did even better.

Now he will take a year out I think it'll be good for Wales development to be coached by a welshmen, we talk about blooding players in but when do we get a chance to try out a new welsh man at the helm, or maybe even numerous welshmen at the helm.

I'd like to see 3/4 coaches given the chance to lead Wales next year, 1 for the 6N Howley, and one to assist Young. Then Young takes control of Howleys GP, and Nigel Davies comes in to assist him. I'd like to see Edwards in there somewhere too.

I know it sounds stupid, but the likes of Young, Howley and Davies are our only real options post Gatland, and Edwards could be a cracking coach also. Lets give them some int experience and they can take it back to their clubs. In general coaches tend to not want to teach other coaches, I think we should change this in Wales and all work together!

I agree.

It will be very good for coaching development. From what I have read the Lions Management only want the head coach to step down. Edwards and Howley, who are likely to join Gatland in Australia next sumer with the Lions, will continue their jobs for Wales.

I would like to see Nigel Davies come in to the Welsh set up. He is a good coach, I don't rate Dai Young so much.

Will Howley & Edwards not be needed for the Welsh Summer Tour, or are Wales not touring?

by maestegmafia Sun 25 Mar 2012, 3:38 pm

Sin é wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:
thebluesmancometh wrote:I'm actually quite excited by the loss of Gatland, I was one of very few trying to calm everyone on our losing streak as I thought Gatland was changing our style of play and tailoring it toward facing 3 very physical sides in our WC group, as it went I thought we would make the 1/4, but that physical edge did even better.

Now he will take a year out I think it'll be good for Wales development to be coached by a welshmen, we talk about blooding players in but when do we get a chance to try out a new welsh man at the helm, or maybe even numerous welshmen at the helm.

I'd like to see 3/4 coaches given the chance to lead Wales next year, 1 for the 6N Howley, and one to assist Young. Then Young takes control of Howleys GP, and Nigel Davies comes in to assist him. I'd like to see Edwards in there somewhere too.

I know it sounds stupid, but the likes of Young, Howley and Davies are our only real options post Gatland, and Edwards could be a cracking coach also. Lets give them some int experience and they can take it back to their clubs. In general coaches tend to not want to teach other coaches, I think we should change this in Wales and all work together!

I agree.

It will be very good for coaching development. From what I have read the Lions Management only want the head coach to step down. Edwards and Howley, who are likely to join Gatland in Australia next sumer with the Lions, will continue their jobs for Wales.

I would like to see Nigel Davies come in to the Welsh set up. He is a good coach, I don't rate Dai Young so much.

Will Howley & Edwards not be needed for the Welsh Summer Tour, or are Wales not touring?

I dont know what the plans are regarding summer touring, but last time we went to america and canada and Neil Jenkins and Robyn McBride looked after the team. It was a devlopement tour.

by maestegmafia Sun 25 Mar 2012, 3:40 pm

asoreleftshoulder wrote:
Cymroglan wrote:
asoreleftshoulder wrote:Yeah I think he's the right appointment for the Lions but if he stays on as Wales coach he now has a very fine line to walk.

He has to pick a squad and team that's the best mix of all the available talent without upsetting the Welsh players.I hope he can do it without compromising but it'll be very tough to get right.

The current Welsh squad know that they wont be selected and wont expect to be selected unless they are not on top of their game.

I hope you're right but you've nothing concrete to base that statement on,it's unlikely that every Welsh player will react the same way.

It might not be an issue but there's no way of knowing until the team is picked.

The way the Welsh squad has been managed under Gatlands tenure I don't think any player sees there spot as a certainty, he has been very keen to play form young players over out of form players.

by gelodge Sun 25 Mar 2012, 4:03 pm

It'll be interesting how he gets on without Geech. Heading up the Lions is a very different job from a long term position at a country or club. Very good coaches aren't necessarily able to strike the right balance in the short period, and vice versa (Geech probably did better with the Lions than he did in his roles elsewhere).

emack2 wrote:Henry 2001 Lions tour was sabotaged by a players revolt

Henry's take on the tour is:

“I didn’t coach particularly well,” Henry said. “I didn’t get to know the players well enough, nor did I involve them enough. I didn’t do it right.”

by maestegmafia Sun 25 Mar 2012, 4:49 pm

gelodge wrote:It'll be interesting how he gets on without Geech. Heading up the Lions is a very different job from a long term position at a country or club. Very good coaches aren't necessarily able to strike the right balance in the short period, and vice versa (Geech probably did better with the Lions than he did in his roles elsewhere).

You make it sound very much like what Gatland does as an international coach, something he does without Ian McGeechan. Something he would have seen closely on the last tour where he was a senior coach.

by Morgannwg Sun 25 Mar 2012, 5:56 pm

If so then I reckon Gatland will select about 16 Welsh players. That's our starting XV plus Ryan Jones! Could be more if he decides to take all 4 of our 2nd row's...

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 25 Mar 2012, 6:04 pm

I think it is fortunate that Wales are touring Oz this year because the Lions tour there next year.

Whilst in my opinion it is still too early to start selecting players for the Lions
many believe there will be a healthy number of Welsh players in the squad - Gatlands selection won't change those opinions!

Therefor the Welsh tour is doubly important not only for Wales to get the SH monkey off their backs but to reinforce the beliief that many pundits have, that they should be on the Lions Tour.

If they don't perform then that should be a good reason to look elsewhere & vice versa.

by gelodge Sun 25 Mar 2012, 6:16 pm

maestegmafia wrote:
gelodge wrote:It'll be interesting how he gets on without Geech. Heading up the Lions is a very different job from a long term position at a country or club. Very good coaches aren't necessarily able to strike the right balance in the short period, and vice versa (Geech probably did better with the Lions than he did in his roles elsewhere).

You make it sound very much like what Gatland does as an international coach, something he does without Ian McGeechan. Something he would have seen closely on the last tour where he was a senior coach.

It's one thing seeing & being a part of it, and another replicating it as the architect.

I don't know what to make of Gatland on the international stage. He obviously had a cracking first 6N, but then was unable to match that in the next few years.

Preceding the WC last year he seemed to have turned another corner, overseeing some great performances in NZ, but although definitely the best side in the 6N this year and continuing Wales' solidity, I don't think he has built on the Welsh attacking invention that we saw last summer (which is what we will definitely need for a succesful series against a quality and established Aussie side).

Going on tour to Oz this summer he should certainly be best placed to offer the Lions insight in approach, but as I've already said, I think triumphant Lions head coach attributes are more complex and ethereal than that found in traditionally successful head coaches. Until they are in place and doing the business you can't be sure if they've got what is needed.

by offload Sun 25 Mar 2012, 6:46 pm

The Lions is not about selecting the best 15 individuals but rather the best team of 15 players.

It's a long way ahead and anything can happen, I'd be surprised if more than 5 Welsh players make the starting test team. Given the job, I don't think that Gatland will favour any one coutry's players over another.

by Croyman Sun 25 Mar 2012, 7:13 pm

He obviously won the coaching competition in the 6N - I got the impression that a year or so ago Deccie was getting measured up for the Lions jackets - I imagine he's a bit miffed

by Cymroglan Sun 25 Mar 2012, 7:15 pm

Gatland probably has ambitions of coaching New Zealand and a successful Lions tour will be another string in his bow.
He will select what he considers a winning side even if it means the majority of the first XV comes from one country or another.

by wales606 Sun 25 Mar 2012, 7:15 pm

offload wrote:The Lions is not about selecting the best 15 individuals but rather the best team of 15 players.

It's a long way ahead and anything can happen, I'd be surprised if more than 5 Welsh players make the starting test team. Given the job, I don't think that Gatland will favour any one coutry's players over another.

There were more than 5 welsh players starting in 2009!

by Taffineastbourne Sun 25 Mar 2012, 7:37 pm

A wiinning Lions Tour and a WC and Gats can name his price!

by Norfolklass Sun 25 Mar 2012, 8:25 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:I love the Lions and everything about it, I have been privileged enough to go to all the countries on a Lions tour and hopefully going back to Oz next year.

For me its not just the rugby itst he whole package, meeting friends old and new, see the players in different environments and seeing who prosper and who struggle etc.

As for Gatland getting the job, well if he does good luck to him but as a Welsh fan I am a little apprehensive to say thet least, especially after the Henry affair in 01.

The WRU have come out and said that if he does get job then Howley and McBryde will take the reigns for next 6 years nations which is good for the continuity I guess.

I agree with all you say, and respect for your Lions Tours.
I wish Gatland had nothing to do with the Lions.If chosen he may not be coach at The AIs never mind the 6N. For me Lancaster should be coach. He has proved himself to be a great impact coach, and that is exactly what is needed.

by Cymroglan Sun 25 Mar 2012, 8:33 pm

Not sure that I would agree that the first two games under Lancaster created much impact.
Lancaster may be in with a shout one day but now is not his time.

by wales606 Sun 25 Mar 2012, 8:37 pm

I forgot Gats would miss the AI

Our best chance to beat the All Blacks for decades - and he won't be coaching

That is worrying :/

Perhaps Gats getting the job isn't good for Wales in the long run.

by Cymroglan Sun 25 Mar 2012, 8:46 pm

I cant understand why he wont be coaching during the AI's or be available for the 6N.
The players he will be coaching on the Lions tour will be involved in both competitions so why cant he.

by EnglishReign Sun 25 Mar 2012, 9:10 pm

Best man for the job. If Wales have a successful summer tour there, then England, Ireland and Wales will all have beaten Oz down under in the last couple of years. 3-0 easy.

by maestegmafia Sun 25 Mar 2012, 10:01 pm

Norfolklass wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:I love the Lions and everything about it, I have been privileged enough to go to all the countries on a Lions tour and hopefully going back to Oz next year.

For me its not just the rugby itst he whole package, meeting friends old and new, see the players in different environments and seeing who prosper and who struggle etc.

As for Gatland getting the job, well if he does good luck to him but as a Welsh fan I am a little apprehensive to say thet least, especially after the Henry affair in 01.

The WRU have come out and said that if he does get job then Howley and McBryde will take the reigns for next 6 years nations which is good for the continuity I guess.

I agree with all you say, and respect for your Lions Tours.
I wish Gatland had nothing to do with the Lions.If chosen he may not be coach at The AIs never mind the 6N. For me Lancaster should be coach. He has proved himself to be a great impact coach, and that is exactly what is needed.

Gatland turned a Welsh squad that left the RWC 07 in the pool stages into Grandslam champions in the same time. Lancaster took a team that won the championship last year and they came second this year.

I don't think Lancaster has an impressive resume. I don't think he had much miraculous impetus on England's current performances. England looked like Andy Farrells Saracens team. Though saying that we don't know what a Lancaster team would look like because he hasn't coached at any notable levels.

by Knowsit17 Sun 25 Mar 2012, 10:36 pm

Where does it say Gatland would miss the AI's? The Lions management want their coach available a year in advance, which we already know won't happen either way as Gats is definitely going to Australia this year.

And the WRU seem to be preparing only for the 2013 6N without their man, apparently nothing more.

Delighted for Gatland personally, one way or another he's leaving for good someday therefore the players are expected to adapt to life without him eventually and this'll present the perfect opportunity. I don't expect this to be as suicidal by the WRU as many fear. He deserves it for all his achievements and is clearly the best coach of the Lions nations atm.

by monwy Sun 25 Mar 2012, 11:17 pm

maestegmafia wrote:Gatland turned a Welsh squad that left the RWC 07 in the pool stages into Grandslam champions

Followed by three seasons of coming 4th and only winning a third of all their international matches with pretty much the same group of players. He had to bring in new players to get things moving in the right direction again.

Norfolklass wrote:For me Lancaster should be coach.

Any suggestions that Lancaster should be in charge of the Lions are ridiculous!

by maestegmafia Sun 25 Mar 2012, 11:22 pm

monwy wrote:
maestegmafia wrote:Gatland turned a Welsh squad that left the RWC 07 in the pool stages into Grandslam champions
Followed by three seasons of coming 4th and only winning a third of all their international matches with pretty much the same group of players. He had to bring in new players to get things moving in the right direction again.

As long as you win the initial important series as a Lions coach that is all that matters.

by BigTrevsbigmac Sun 25 Mar 2012, 11:39 pm

I'm a fan of Gats but it could be argued that the Welsh Slammers of 2008 were basically the Ospreys team that were effectively coached by their Region.
As previously stated it was all a bit flat after that.

Gatts has already stated he wants Edwards with him so the other assistant coach will be the interesting choice.

by alcoombe Mon 26 Mar 2012, 12:05 am

maestegmafia wrote:England looked like Andy Farrells Saracens team. Though saying that we don't know what a Lancaster team would look like because he hasn't coached at any notable levels.

His 3 years in charge of the Saxons using a number of the same players is a clear indicator. His 2 years at Leeds probably don't tell us that much as his resources were much more limited there.

My preference would still be for a coach not currently heading up a 6N side, and ideally someone who was themselves a Lion.

by johnpartle Mon 26 Mar 2012, 12:55 am

There's an interesting recent interview of Haskell on Gatland's coaching style:

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/rugbynation/rugby-news/2012/03/23/james-haskell-gives-unique-insight-into-warren-gatland-s-grand-slam-winning-training-methods-91466-30604440/

Spoiler:

by Huwball Mon 26 Mar 2012, 12:59 am

There seems to be a lot said about Welsh players being selected for next years' tour.....

Wales might not have the best players next year - Scotland might just click & there will be half the Scottish team there Whistle

England nearly beat us, so until next year - who knows Tumbleweed

by Knowsit17 Mon 26 Mar 2012, 2:15 am

I'm a fan of Gats but it could be argued that the Welsh Slammers of 2008 were basically the Ospreys team that were effectively coached by their Region.

Unlikely. Only the starting lineup against England could be seen as "basically the Ospreys" and even that game itself was won with the help of impact replacements like Shanklin and Jenkins. After that the two players mentioned plus Stephen Jones and Matthew Rees were regular starters for the rest of the tournament.

Anyway, that same year the Ospreys were pretty poor except in the lower value Anglo-Welsh Cup, so you could hardly claim with credibility that Lyn Jones and co were primarily responsible for coaching the players to the GS. Logically if they were they'd have easily been capable of giving a better account of themselves at the Liberty.

I'd be surprised if a rift grew between Gatland and the Welsh players so far as Lions selection goes. The vast majority of this side has consistently shown itself to be very mature and professional, they're grown up enough to accept it if they don't make the starting XV. As a matter of fact they're more likely to play better if that were the case, they'll want to do everything in their power to break in.

by eirebilly Mon 26 Mar 2012, 6:27 am

So who will oversee the 6N for Wales if Gatland doesnt?

by BigTrevsbigmac Mon 26 Mar 2012, 8:33 am

Knowsit17 wrote:
I'm a fan of Gats but it could be argued that the Welsh Slammers of 2008 were basically the Ospreys team that were effectively coached by their Region.

Unlikely. Only the starting lineup against England could be seen as "basically the Ospreys" and even that game itself was won with the help of impact replacements like Shanklin and Jenkins. After that the two players mentioned plus Stephen Jones and Matthew Rees were regular starters for the rest of the tournament.

Anyway, that same year the Ospreys were pretty poor except in the lower value Anglo-Welsh Cup, so you could hardly claim with credibility that Lyn Jones and co were primarily responsible for coaching the players to the GS. Logically if they were they'd have easily been capable of giving a better account of themselves at the Liberty.

I'd be surprised if a rift grew between Gatland and the Welsh players so far as Lions selection goes. The vast majority of this side has consistently shown itself to be very mature and professional, they're grown up enough to accept it if they don't make the starting XV. As a matter of fact they're more likely to play better if that were the case, they'll want to do everything in their power to break in.

I understand your point but Gatts had barely 3 months from taking over Wales to the start of the 6Ns & very little time with his squad of players so one can fairly assume he had little influence other than motivational to mould a team to his liking.
He would have had time to change things around thereafter & as I said previously it went very flat for Wales during this period.

by **Biltong** Mon 26 Mar 2012, 8:42 am

BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
I understand your point but Gatts had barely 3 months from taking over Wales to the start of the 6Ns & very little time with his squad of players so one can fairly assume he had little influence other than motivational to mould a team to his liking.
He would have had time to change things around thereafter & as I said previously it went very flat for Wales during this period.

Bigmac, that is often all that is required. When you look at the Springboks of 1995. Kitch Christie had 3 months with the players when he started coaching them for the world cup. Francois Pienaar said last year he believes a three month period is all that is required for a coach to prepare a team for a tournament. I think it helps to focus the squad and short term goals are often much easier to focus on that longterm sustainability.

by maestegmafia Mon 26 Mar 2012, 9:04 am

biltongbek wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
I understand your point but Gatts had barely 3 months from taking over Wales to the start of the 6Ns & very little time with his squad of players so one can fairly assume he had little influence other than motivational to mould a team to his liking.
He would have had time to change things around thereafter & as I said previously it went very flat for Wales during this period.

Bigmac, that is often all that is required. When you look at the Springboks of 1995. Kitch Christie had 3 months with the players when he started coaching them for the world cup. Francois Pienaar said last year he believes a three month period is all that is required for a coach to prepare a team for a tournament. I think it helps to focus the squad and short term goals are often much easier to focus on that longterm sustainability.

Big Trev if you can make that assumption you can see why I think that Lancaster had little to do with England coming second in this years six nations.

Gatland in 08 changed the Welsh defence, and encouraged a more conservative game plan. Pretty much what Andy Farrell just did for England. The difference was Wales still manufactured and scored plenty of tries.

by BigTrevsbigmac Mon 26 Mar 2012, 10:02 am

maestegmafia wrote:
biltongbek wrote:
BigTrevsbigmac wrote:
I understand your point but Gatts had barely 3 months from taking over Wales to the start of the 6Ns & very little time with his squad of players so one can fairly assume he had little influence other than motivational to mould a team to his liking.
He would have had time to change things around thereafter & as I said previously it went very flat for Wales during this period.

Bigmac, that is often all that is required. When you look at the Springboks of 1995. Kitch Christie had 3 months with the players when he started coaching them for the world cup. Francois Pienaar said last year he believes a three month period is all that is required for a coach to prepare a team for a tournament. I think it helps to focus the squad and short term goals are often much easier to focus on that longterm sustainability.

Big Trev if you can make that assumption you can see why I think that Lancaster had little to do with England coming second in this years six nations.

Gatland in 08 changed the Welsh defence, and encouraged a more conservative game plan. Pretty much what Andy Farrell just did for England. The difference was Wales still manufactured and scored plenty of tries.

Was it Gatland or Edwards though?

It still doesn't explain what happened thereafter when he had more time with the squad & the subsequent & continued downturn. So much so there were murmurings about the direction of the national team culminating in a try drought in the 2011 6 nations.

This continued until a key set of young players happened to come through at the same time last year.

by RuggerRadge2611 Mon 26 Mar 2012, 10:04 am

Good decision to take Gatland. Wales have played the best rugby for the last wee while so it's a certainty they'll probably make up the bulk of the team. I do hope when the calls are 50-50 that he'll take players from the other unions to ensure the Lions are well represented by all the teams who contribute.

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