Would Welterweight be suicide for Khan ???

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Johnny Nelson sees Welterweight now for Khan...

On the plus side an extra seven pounds might make his chin a little better (Didn't with Tommy but did with Rog Mayweather), a little more flesh on the legs etc.. and he'd still keep his speed!!

However chances are his punches will be less effective!!!...and he'll be in against naturally bigger guys who can take his punishment and wait for the opportunity which would likely come!!..

Thing is Khan has to win early against guys that can dig and a naturally bigger welter would carry a solid dig even If he's not a puncher... than say a good punching 140er...

I think Khan is better rematching Garcia and hoping he can do enough early and not get caught!!

Would welter be suicide for Khan?? Yep think it would!!

supremeskills wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Manos Is right Khan has no doubt improved under Roach....

But in fairness to you Mackem...experience of sparring with guys like Manny regularly may have attributed to that to a great extent..

i think khan would be alot better if trained by roger mayweather,who i think is a better coach than roach,freddies fighters keep losing.
i think roger can teach a boxer everything,whereas roach teaches his fighters to be 1 dimentional.they have poor defence,so they take alot of shots,and they keep fighting the same way even if its not working.they cant adapt to different styles,so they look great against 1 style,and struggle against another.
prime example is mannys fights against marquez.freddie couldnt train manny to get the better of marquez in any of those fights eventhough he had 3 chances.

Talk about selling Marquez short.

manos de piedra wrote:I wouldnt go anywhere near Roger Mayweather. You would need a translator to understand his instructions and probably a good lawyer too.

Theres only so much a trainer can do with a fighter and if you focus too much on a fighters weaknesses you can ignore developing their natural strengths.

Defence is as important as offence if you have chin issues. Its the first thing you should be taught given you have good attacking instincts.

It would be suicidal, i don't think cutting too much weight is the problem behind his punch resistance.

I just dont think switching trainers is like waving a magic wand, or that wholesale changes and the assumption a fighter can learn them is the case.

The assumption seems to be the Khan should be operating on a far higher level, and because he isnt, Roach is a problem. I wouldnt neccessarily agree with that and think if Khan did switch trainers its unlikely you would see massive improvements or leaps forwards. I also think theres a chance that Khan lacks the capacity to learn and implement instructions to a high degree and that there is no real point in trying to teach a fighter more than hes able to learn.

Im not saying switching trainers will have no effect, or may not be beneficial. But I just dont think it would have nearly the kind of effect that is being argued because I think Khan himself is alot of the problem.

Could someone please explain why they think Roger Mayweather is the right coach for Khan? If the answer is that he trains Floyd and he's good defensively is the answer , then sorry, but that's not enough evidence for me-who else has he trained? And is there evidence that he changed their style and solved the sort of problems that Khan has? Floyd is hugely talented and would be great under any coach.
And for the record, Lewis acknowledges that Stewart improved him alot, so I think that coaches can and do make a difference, I just question whether Roger is the right man for Khan. For my money Stewart has the best CV in boxing as current trainers go- and he has proven himself at developing talent and teaching older dogs new tricks, obviously he hasn't always been the rigth choice- did nothing for Naz- but his work with Hearns, lewis and Wlad seems to suggest that he would be right for Khan.

horizontalhero wrote:Could someone please explain why they think Roger Mayweather is the right coach for Khan? If the answer is that he trains Floyd and he's good defensively is the answer , then sorry, but that's not enough evidence for me-who else has he trained? And is there evidence that he changed their style and solved the sort of problems that Khan has? Floyd is hugely talented and would be great under any coach.
And for the record, Lewis acknowledges that Stewart improved him alot, so I think that coaches can and do make a difference, I just question whether Roger is the right man for Khan. For my money Stewart has the best CV in boxing as current trainers go- and he has proven himself at developing talent and teaching older dogs new tricks, obviously he hasn't always been the rigth choice- did nothing for Naz- but his work with Hearns, lewis and Wlad seems to suggest that he would be right for Khan.

Regardless of who Roger has trained, tell me who has more 'knowledge' on boxing Freddy Roach or Roger Mayweather? Roger might educate Khan on how to defend/counter, Roach as boxer never had a defense, I believe he cannot preach defense because he has no knowledge in that area. As for Steward that's a good shout, i'm surprised people are not mentioning Adam Booth or Robert Garcia.

Khan's main attribute - speed, is not being developed in the correct way. His speed should be developed to shroud his weaknesses, not expose him to them.

Khans main attribute is his speed I agree, but surely Roach must try use his main attribute 'speed' to help him defend in some way. I'm afraid standing in a shell defense with a high guard is not using your attributes to defend.

PPVxHOTTY you could checkout "Does Khan lack mentality of a fighter" for a disscussion about trainers and khans style which is running parallel to this one.

I think Stewards work with Lewis and Wlad has been fine tuning, tweaking, attention to detail and being able to relay this effectively. But stylewise they didnt undergo massive surgery. They were always big guys that like to utilise the jab and I think Steward was able to sharpen and polish this at a higher level of coaching then they had previously. To me this has generally been the successful method as opposed to major rehauls and huge shifts in emphasis. You can also only work with what you have got and have to account for your pupils natural strength, weaknesses and tendancies.

I agree

manos de piedra wrote:I think Stewards work with Lewis and Wlad has been fine tuning, tweaking, attention to detail and being able to relay this effectively. But stylewise they didnt undergo massive surgery. They were always big guys that like to utilise the jab and I think Steward was able to sharpen and polish this at a higher level of coaching then they had previously. To me this has generally been the successful method as opposed to major rehauls and huge shifts in emphasis. You can also only work with what you have got and have to account for your pupils natural strength, weaknesses and tendancies.

Steward performed a near miracle with Andries.

azania wrote:

manos de piedra wrote:I think Stewards work with Lewis and Wlad has been fine tuning, tweaking, attention to detail and being able to relay this effectively. But stylewise they didnt undergo massive surgery. They were always big guys that like to utilise the jab and I think Steward was able to sharpen and polish this at a higher level of coaching then they had previously. To me this has generally been the successful method as opposed to major rehauls and huge shifts in emphasis. You can also only work with what you have got and have to account for your pupils natural strength, weaknesses and tendancies.

Steward performed a near miracle with Andries.

Yes, and I dont doubt there are other cases of this nature. I just dont think its norm, especially in cases where a boxer has already had an extensive amateur career and established style.

My issue is largely the extent at which a new trainer would help Khan and the potential reasons why. If the feeling is that Khan is badly underacheiving or significantly being hampered by Roach and another trainer would make a massive difference then I would probably have to disagree. The grass might not be greener.

The other thing is Khan himself. The best or most knowledgeable trainer in the world can still only work with what hes got. If Khan struggles to learn, struggles to make adjustments, refuses to listen and so forth then it would be futile in an case. There are some elements like his durability and inability to fight on the inside that I dont think can be solved.

If another trainer can make slight improvements and adjustments and whos teaching methods Khan resonds better to can be found then Im sure he will improve. I just dont think its a given and even if it dos happen I would not really expect to see massive changes in stlye or ability. It could just be the case that there is only so far Khan can go, regardless of who trains him. He could be a case like Judah whereby he possess great handspeed but the all round package just isnt there to bring him up that extra level.

I think Steward can tighten it up and teach him how to throw necessary shots only without leaving himself too open. Throw 2-3-4 punch combos with intent rather than ineffectual flurries. Wholesale changes are as you aid unlikely to work. I do think that Mannys sparring with Khan took Khan to another level and the separation of their training has impacted on Khan quite badly, I'm quite certain it was post Maidana when Manny stopped sparring with him. Can anyone confirm?

I think going up would suit him, he would get more power, still have his speed and chin would be a bit better..

He just needs to be more smart and with more composure, he wins rounds and does not need to stop people.. He also needs to work on his inside game as he relies to much on people not getting to him that when they do he has no solution.

While I think he is a over rated fighter I do think that his tools would make for a very interesting fight against FMJ, as Floyd has not faced such speed, and someone who could pinch rounds like Khan can... I don't think Floyd would be able to be as defensive as he usually is, but that's not to say he would not beat Khan, it would have just made for a very interesting fight.

PPVxHOTTY wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:Could someone please explain why they think Roger Mayweather is the right coach for Khan? If the answer is that he trains Floyd and he's good defensively is the answer , then sorry, but that's not enough evidence for me-who else has he trained? And is there evidence that he changed their style and solved the sort of problems that Khan has? Floyd is hugely talented and would be great under any coach.
And for the record, Lewis acknowledges that Stewart improved him alot, so I think that coaches can and do make a difference, I just question whether Roger is the right man for Khan. For my money Stewart has the best CV in boxing as current trainers go- and he has proven himself at developing talent and teaching older dogs new tricks, obviously he hasn't always been the rigth choice- did nothing for Naz- but his work with Hearns, lewis and Wlad seems to suggest that he would be right for Khan.

Regardless of who Roger has trained, tell me who has more 'knowledge' on boxing Freddy Roach or Roger Mayweather? Roger might educate Khan on how to defend/counter, Roach as boxer never had a defense, I believe he cannot preach defense because he has no knowledge in that area. As for Steward that's a good shout, i'm surprised people are not mentioning Adam Booth or Robert Garcia.

I think you are doing Roach a bit of a disservice there, and I wouldn't place too much emphasis on his ,or any trainers own boxing career - after all Angelo Dundee was a great trainer, and he didn't have a boxing career at all. Whilst I would agree the Roger probably does know about defence and countering (but not as much as his nephew does), I am suggesting that his CV is somewhat thin, and If I were Khan I would want a more proven solution, and that for me is Stewart

Undoubtedly WW would be suicide for Khan, for the reasons previously posted by others, however he's going to have problems whatever division he fights in all the time he walks/runs backwards in straight lines with his hands down [& has no inside game].
He did it against Peterson & Garcia, just that Garcia had the power to ko him, although I can't understand why Garcia got so much credit for this win as he looked like a one dimensional slugger to me, maybe I'm being unfair [?] & he has more to his game but definitely didn't show it against Khan although it could be argued he didn't need to?
The warning signs were apparent in the "Between the Ropes" [or whatever it was called] programme where he was seen in sparring slugging it out with some amateur or newly turned pro, whilst Reuben Tabares [his conditioning coach] in the absence of Roach was trying to tell him to box behind his jab & Khan was arguing "That's not exciting though", kind of says it all about Khan's mindset - more concerned with pleasing crowds than winning fights.