Olympic Day 6 Thread

[The Special Juan]

First topic message reminder :

Centre Court: Azarenka v Kerber then Djokovic v Tsonga then Federer v Isner then Clijsters v Sharapova

Court 1: Almagro v Murray then Serena Williams v Wozniacki then Nishikori v Del Potro then Robson/Murray v Hradecka/Stepanek

Court 2: Bryan/Bryan v Erlich/Ram then Kvitova v Kirilenko then Lisicki/Kas v Huber/B Bryan then Williams/Williams v Vinci/Errani

Court 14: Cilic/Dodig v Ferrer/Lopez then Peng/Zheng v Kirilenko/Perova then Mirza/Paes v Zimnjic/Ivanovic

Court 16: Hlavackova/Hredecka v Chuang/Hsieh then Tipsarevic/Zimonjic v Gasquet/Benneteau then Melo/Soares v Tsonga/Llodra

Some real crackers there.

[lags72]

But socal, I (along with many, many others) ask you please to appreciate that the draws themselves are made in a perfectly fair manner - even if the actual outcome may not always seem fair to a fan of one particular player or another, and hence your niggling frustration, or perhaps even paranoia.

The only thing that would convince most objective, rational folk that the draw is NOT carried out in a fair manner would be the production of cast-iron, irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

Do you happen to have any such evidence ...?

If so, please do share it.

[bogbrush]

It's sad to see a poster in this pitiful state. I can't help but feel partly responsible for facing up to repeatedly posted nonsense.

[socal1976]

But socal, I (along with many, many others) ask you please to appreciate that the draws themselves are made in a perfectly fair manner - even if the actual outcome may not always seem fair to a fan of one particular player or another, and hence your niggling frustration, or perhaps even paranoia.

The only thing that would convince most objective, rational folk that the draw is NOT carried out in a fair manner would be the production of cast-iron, irrefutable evidence to the contrary.

Do you happen to have any such evidence ...?

If so, please do share it.

No they do not, what do you expect me to produce a video of the ITF guys chuckling it up and putting Novak in Roger's half? What evidence do you have that these mathematical oddities that seem to favor the pocket books of the people making the draws are just coincidence? Where is your evidence that these massive longshots coming in are legitimate? Because someone told you so.

Like i said Roger's draw is comical on a grass court to get Ferrer drawn in his semi, sheer comedy here is the silver Rog thanks for showing up and now that your well rested why don't you go out and play for the gold.

[break_in_the_fifth]

Hopefully Fed's not too tired from carrying Stan yesterday and can see this out.

[Woestijnrog]

Federer takes it 64, 76(5).

[bogbrush]

Tricky one overcome there. Another one coming up, but as it should be.

[The Special Juan]

Mixed doubles now with Murray and Robson. If Murray serves like he did earlier in the day they'll do well.

[lags72]

A quality win for Fed, he can be pleased with that. Not easy to get back enough of those Isner exocets - and with a nasty wind thrown in for good measure ....

[bogbrush]

Two good semi-finals to come now, not easy calls at all though Federer really has been the bane of Del Potros season so far.

[Danny_1982]

So.... Fed v Delpo and Murray v Djokovic

A semi final line up that would grace a slam. Should be great.

Fed v Djokovic final for me, with Murray claiming the bronze.

[socal1976]

One good semi and one gift wrapped cakewalk for federer. Del Potro on grass is hardly formidable fed will torture him with the slice backhand. I don't think Del po's ever done better than 3rd or maybe 4th round at wimby. Has to be by far his worst surface and Rog's best.

[Guest]

Poor Laura,

How's she gonna feel when Murray starts swearing and cursing? He looked like he might start in that first game.

[Guest]

Change the record Socal, you're worse than Tenez and his physical arguements - at least they made sense.

[socal1976]

I will happily change the record if the draw committee could start throwing my guys some of these chocolatey cupcake draws that Roger and Rafa have been feasting on in recent years. Would love to change the subject if the facts change.

[Danny_1982]

I wouldn't go as far as cakewalk socal, but essentially I agree that Feds slice will damage Delpo and win the match for him.

That's assuming he uses it of course. He didn't use it much in their match a few weeks ago and just tried to outhit delpo, and might have lost had Delpo's body not fallen apart.

The other semi looks tighter on paper, and Murray can win for sure... But I fancy Novak to just edge it.

[invisiblecoolers]

One good semi and one gift wrapped cakewalk for federer. Del Potro on grass is hardly formidable fed will torture him with the slice backhand. I don't think Del po's ever done better than 3rd or maybe 4th round at wimby. Has to be by far his worst surface and Rog's best.

Socal I had a great respect for you as a poster, but now you annoying everybody here with the same spout of draw rubbish, Djoko's draw is a cakewalk too if you consider Fed's one, you haven't answered the previous question in which I compared the two draws, how one earth an outdated Roddick and Hewitt is not considered as a cakewalk, and if Djoko can't win these players do you seriously expect him to win Olympics?

Btw Fed would have had no problem if this Roddick and Hewitt was drawn against him, indeed I see Fed unlucky not to have them, may be Hewitt and Roddick might have requested for an easier quarter and hence drawn against Djoko, seriously Murray and Fed are better grass court players at the moment than Djoko.

[socal1976]

I wouldn't go as far as cakewalk socal, but essentially I agree that Feds slice will damage Delpo and win the match for him.

That's assuming he uses it of course. He didn't use it much in their match a few weeks ago and just tried to outhit delpo, and might have lost had Delpo's body not fallen apart.

The other semi looks tighter on paper, and Murray can win for sure... But I fancy Novak to just edge it.

Danny this is about as easy a semi on grass as you could hope for in a major tournament. Del Potro is a much tougher player on hardcourt and even clay and fed has handled him easily the last 18 months on those surfaces. On grass well Del Po is not nearly as proficient fed is going to hand him his lunch. You watch, two routine sets. Meanwhile it is a pickem between Murray and Novak, Murray has the home court advantage should have a little bit of a davis cup feel so who knows. Cupcake, just have to tell them whether you like chocolate or angel cake.

[bogbrush]

I will happily change the record if the draw committee could start throwing my guys some of these chocolatey cupcake draws that Roger and Rafa have been feasting on in recent years. Would love to change the subject if the facts change.

Does getting Djokovic in the semi-final now count as a cupcake draw? I mean, the idea is that's a given. Isn't it?

It's so hard to keep up with the endlessly changing definitions and ratings. I mean, Roddick went from frat boy impersonator to grass court maestro in about three posts yesterday.

[invisiblecoolers]

So Socal you are ruling DP out completely? wat rubbish.

[socal1976]

One good semi and one gift wrapped cakewalk for federer. Del Potro on grass is hardly formidable fed will torture him with the slice backhand. I don't think Del po's ever done better than 3rd or maybe 4th round at wimby. Has to be by far his worst surface and Rog's best.

Socal I had a great respect for you as a poster, but now you annoying everybody here with the same spout of draw rubbish, Djoko's draw is a cakewalk too if you consider Fed's one, you haven't answered the previous question in which I compared the two draws, how one earth an outdated Roddick and Hewitt is not considered as a cakewalk, and if Djoko can't win these players do you seriously expect him to win Olympics?

Btw Fed would have had no problem if this Roddick and Hewitt was drawn against him, indeed I see Fed unlucky not to have them, may be Hewitt and Roddick might have requested for an easier quarter and hence drawn against Djoko, seriously Murray and Fed are better grass court players at the moment than Djoko.

Invisible I am sorry that you don't like inconvenient truths told about the nature of the tennis world and the protection afforded the Rog and Nadal but it is the truth and it is damaging the credibility of the game in my mind, it is getting to the point that it is almost like pro wrestling. Next the players are going to assume on court persona's and talk smack while wearing pink boas. My opinions are what they are, if you like them that is fine if you don't that is fine.

But my point is pretty much indisputtable, an absolute cupcake giftwrapped medal for fed for just showing up. Sure is nice isn't it, maybe this is why he made it such a big point for years to make this olympics. Maybe he had feeling that they were going to gift wrap him one as a career achievment award that seems to be what is happening.

By the way when I start annoying fed fans I know I must be doing something right.

[bogbrush]

Ah, so it's just trolling then.

[invisiblecoolers]

I wish Murray beats Djoko then Del Po beats Djoko for a bronze to put Socal's moaning to bed.

Underestimating DP is a real shocker, DP on his day is better than most players on tour, DP and Murray are close calls for me, both are talented and dangerous, I indeed think its 51-49 for DP tomorrow's match, and 55-45 for Djoko against Murray.

I won't call DP beating Fed as an upset.

[JuliusHMarx]

[Invisible I am sorry that you don't like inconvenient truths told about the nature of the tennis world and the protection afforded the Rog and Nadal but it is the truth and it is damaging the credibility of the game in my mind.

Except that it's not a truth, its only in your mind, and saying "it's the truth" over and over again doesn't actually make it the truth

[By the way when I start annoying fed fans I know I must be doing something right.

How about when you start annoying tennis fans, rather than fed fans?
And is annoying people something to be proud of?

[invisiblecoolers]

Socal I am not even a Fed Fan, I am DP fan, and it annoying to see you completely rule DP's chances out. DP was better than your Djoko by the end of 2009, an injury meant he is put back to basics, now he is doing all his best he can to get back to where he belong.

Just coz you an Djoko die hard fan don't bash other players.

[lags72]

socal - I certainly can't speak for Federer fans but I very much doubt you "annoy" them. Methinks you're giving yourself way too much credit there.

However, as for tennis fans in general I'd say it's really not a case of annoyance - it's much more about you losing respect in their eyes with bizarre parallel-world, unproven theories and then casually throwing in lines like "my point is pretty much indisputable" when in fact very few - if indeed any - of your claims can be classed as indisputable.

[socal1976]

Socal I am not even a Fed Fan, I am DP fan, and it annoying to see you completely rule DP's chances out. DP was better than your Djoko by the end of 2009, an injury meant he is put back to basics, now he is doing all his best he can to get back to where he belong.

Just coz you an Djoko die hard fan don't bash other players.

IC, Del Po is a very good player I am very positive on his future not on his chances against Roger on Grass I don't see anything in their recent matchups to tilt me the other way. Doesn't mean I am disrespecting him by pointing out the obvious that everyone knows that his worst surface by a country mile is grass.

[Danny_1982]

Socal - Fed is favourite, and rightly so. He'd also much prefer playing Delpo at this stage than either Murray or Novak.

But I don't know how Delpo can be called a grass cakewalk. They went to 5 sets on the same surface a few weeks ago! And had Delpo not hurt himself / ran out of gas he could have won.

I think and expect Fed to win, but it's not the walkover that you make it out to be.

[socal1976]

socal - I certainly can't speak for Federer fans but I very much doubt you "annoy" them. Methinks you're giving yourself way too much credit there.

However, as for tennis fans in general I'd say it's really not a case of annoyance - it's much more about you losing respect in their eyes with bizarre parallel-world, unproven theories and then casually throwing in lines like "my point is pretty much indisputable" when in fact very few - if indeed any - of your claims can be classed as indisputable.

It is indisputtable that Tsonga is a tougher draw and and objectively better grass court player over his career when compared to Isner. I provided the statistics to back it up. That is what is indisputtable. I don't have indisputtable evidence that the statistical oddities in the draw are rigged, i never claimed to, but there is a lot of smoke and enough evidence for me to question it.

[invisiblecoolers]

Socal, Tsonga might be slightly better than Isner on grass and that all, it doesn't mean Fed got a cake walk and Djoko didn't, Djoko's last meeting with Isner is a loss remember that.

Btw Djoko's worst surface is grass too, do that mean Murray will have a cake walk against him?

Fed- Del Po is as tough as Djoko - Murray, indeed Murray would no doubt prefer Djoko over Fed in this surface.

The real test comes from semi onwards, all these draw and nonsense are tough players and but we know they will all go down, but semi you just can't say anything from here on.

[socal1976]

You heard it here first two routine sets for Fed, enjoy the cupcake Rog just be kind enough to tell Novak how it tastes he doesn't get served these kind of cupcakes like you and Rafa get.

[invisiblecoolers]

You heard it here first two routine sets for Fed, enjoy the cupcake Rog just be kind enough to tell Novak how it tastes he doesn't get served these kind of cupcakes like you and Rafa get.

Socal if you complain of this Djoko draw which had Bellucci, outdated Roddick and Hewitt and exhausted to death Tsonga, I am sorry Djoko is unfit to be a champ , may be thats the reason Djoko don't have a fan base anywhere near Fed/Rafa.

[bogbrush]

You heard it here first two routine sets for Fed, enjoy the cupcake Rog just be kind enough to tell Novak how it tastes he doesn't get served these kind of cupcakes like you and Rafa get.

Socal if you complain of this Djoko draw which had Bellucci, outdated Roddick and Hewitt and exhausted to death Tsonga, I am sorry Djoko is unfit to be a champ , may be thats the reason Djoko don't have a fan base anywhere near Fed/Rafa.

**** Breaking news ****

Roddick is a "grass maestro". Hewitt too

[socal1976]

You heard it here first two routine sets for Fed, enjoy the cupcake Rog just be kind enough to tell Novak how it tastes he doesn't get served these kind of cupcakes like you and Rafa get.

Socal if you complain of this Djoko draw which had Bellucci, outdated Roddick and Hewitt and exhausted to death Tsonga, I am sorry Djoko is unfit to be a champ , may be thats the reason Djoko don't have a fan base anywhere near Fed/Rafa.

If Djoko's draw isn't tough IC then what would you call fed's draw? Laughable if you ask me. But anyway it is neither here nor there. I don't really get what the fan base jab is all about. Rafa and Roger are two of the most popular guys in the history of tennis. Good for them, I don't chose my favorites by looking at what everyone else likes. In fact, I like the fact that he is the less popular and more forgotten guy at the top that is fine by me. I enjoyed his career when he was a distant 3rd.

[JuliusHMarx]

Fed's and Djoko's draws were both laughable - it's a weak era.

[lags72]

I'm not sure it's worth me bothering socal but just by way of example let me outline what I mean when I say that merely because you claim something is "indisputable" does not of itself mean that it IS indisputable.

You say that Tsonga has a better career record than Isner (I wouldn't doubt that, haven't bothered to check) and that this automatically and irrefutably makes him a tougher QF draw than Isner.

But what if I throw something else into the mix - something that relates to the very recent and ever-improving form of Isner rather than just his overall career grass record compared to Tsonga's .....??

What if I say that Isner has won two grass court titles in the last two years (the second as recently as a week or so ago) as compared to Tsonga - who has not won a single grass title since turning pro.

This is not to imply that one of us is wrong and the other is correct in relation to claiming who might be "the tougher draw." But what it DOES show is that any such claim is by no means "indisputable"

In fact I believe I've just disputed it.

Likewise your description of JMDP as being part of a cupcake draw. Yeah... right. Like knowledgeable tennis watchers believe that. Former Slam champ (yes, yes, not on grass, I know...) and career high rank of 4 . Cupcake ..??

[invisiblecoolers]

Fed's and Djoko's draws were both laughable - it's a weak era.

Perfectly said JHM

Sorry actually call IMBL coz this should go as the quote of the week, as it concludes the SOCALLED undisputed arguement over

[The Special Juan]

If Robson could serve she'd be a good player..... Come on!!!

[The Special Juan]

Nadal pulls out of Toronto apparently.

[The Special Juan]

Well done Murray and Robson Got there in the end.

[lags72]

Nadal pulls out of Toronto apparently.

yep, confirmed on his facebook page.

He looks a bit "spaced out" in the accompanying photo.

[bogbrush]

Nadal pulls out of Toronto apparently.

Yikes.

Can't be good.

[lags72]

No, not good for Rafa, or the tour.

At least there were no points for him to defend there (well just 10...) because he was ambushed in his first round last year by Dodig.

[break_in_the_fifth]

Another golden opportunity for Fed.

[lags72]

Well in Toronto yes, but don't forget that Federer himself has a veritable stack of points to defend in the closing stages of this season. It was only after the USO last year that he got back to winning ways ......

[The Special Juan]

Hmmm. Anything for Nadal fans to be concerned about then? If he keeps missing events he might find himself World Number 4 sooner than later....

[break_in_the_fifth]

What is up with Nadal though? He was fine at the French open.

[bogbrush]

I don't know what'll happen at Canada though, the Olympics will be pushing right up to the edge and can see a few tanks.

[socal1976]

Nadal pulls out of Toronto apparently.

Very sad that Nadal is not able to answer the bell physically. He has lengthy injury spells in every season now and it is always the legs and knees. Hopefully, he will be back soon and able to regain his place at the top.

[invisiblecoolers]

Hopefully, he will be back soon and able to regain his place at the top.

He is already at the top, what do u mean by regains his place?

Whats his place? world no.2? which Djoko stole from him last year?

So whats Djoko's rightfull place? World No.3?

[socal1976]

I'm not sure it's worth me bothering socal but just by way of example let me outline what I mean when I say that merely because you claim something is "indisputable" does not of itself mean that it IS indisputable.

You say that Tsonga has a better career record than Isner (I wouldn't doubt that, haven't bothered to check) and that this automatically and irrefutably makes him a tougher QF draw than Isner.

But what if I throw something else into the mix - something that relates to the very recent and ever-improving form of Isner rather than just his overall career grass record compared to Tsonga's .....??

What if I say that Isner has won two grass court titles in the last two years (the second as recently as a week or so ago) as compared to Tsonga - who has not won a single grass title since turning pro.

This is not to imply that one of us is wrong and the other is correct in relation to claiming who might be "the tougher draw." But what it DOES show is that any such claim is by no means "indisputable"

In fact I believe I've just disputed it.

Likewise your description of JMDP as being part of a cupcake draw. Yeah... right. Like knowledgeable tennis watchers believe that. Former Slam champ (yes, yes, not on grass, I know...) and career high rank of 4 . Cupcake ..??

I am sorry, lags look at recent form, Tsonga got to the semis of wimby. Isner has won a couple of 250s, Tsonga hasn't played a lot of empty field grass court tourney's like Isner has. I am not saying Isner can't play or isn't dangerous. In fact I said and stand by it that this is Fed's first actual challenge the whole tournament. If you look at career, current form, and their ability and ranking Tsonga is a much tougher grass court challenge than Isner. Not that Isner is easy, I said this is Roger's basically one and only challenge to the final. I don't see Del Po as being much of a threat. Hopefully, he makes me looks silly and wins. But I would be stunned. This is a terrible matchup on grass for Del PO. A bad matchup for Del Potro on grass. We are talking about reigning and 7 time wimbeldon champ Roger federer. Del Po's best chance is on hardcourt or clay. This is no sleight of Del Potro, I think Pete Sampras as great as he is would be a cupcake semi for Nadal on clay. Under the same logical concept that is why Del Po has no prayer against the greatest grass court player of all time on this surface. He is a weaker grass court player and Roger is better on grass. Therefore considering Roger has won their last 5 or 6 meetings and is getting him on his best and Del Po's weakest surface, hence the cupcake classification. Ferrer would have been cupcake for Rog on this surface as well. Either guy would have been about as easy a semi as he could have possibly hoped for on a GRASS COURT.

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