SHOULD KHAN LOSE WILL HE BE PPV VIABLE???

First topic message reminder :

If we are honest Khan has a huge following. Oscar, Tyson etc all better fighters and just as exciting all had to wait post-title for there headlining days on PPV.....

Khan on the otherhand being a standout fightersportsman from an ethnic background that has grown into a large community and huge market was able to hit the PPV pre-title and post Prescott quite amazing in itself.

Now I'm not suggesting all Khan's fans are of Asian persuasion..far from it but I am saying Warren obviously took this into consideration before taking the unprecedented PPV step...

Thing is would a Khan defeat against Paul really hurt future PPv....Prescott didn't.....

The people who tend to follow khan will probably take any excuse for a defeat because they are good fans as are some Manny/Floyd fans..Khan will remain a hero

Should Khan lose will he still be PPV viable...I think he will!!!

DAVE667 wrote:I can see why Sky wanted it moved off PPV but can't understand the short-sightedness of Team Khan in not accepting to moved to Sky Sports 3. Perhaps they failed to realise there's a recession on and people might not have money to splash around for PPV events especially those lacking depth from the bottom to the top of the card.

Sounds to me like they've taken lessons from Hamed's brother (Raith?)

Why should they? Its not their job to help the chancellor out. Its their job to maximise the income of Khan for each fight.

azania wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:I can see why Sky wanted it moved off PPV but can't understand the short-sightedness of Team Khan in not accepting to moved to Sky Sports 3. Perhaps they failed to realise there's a recession on and people might not have money to splash around for PPV events especially those lacking depth from the bottom to the top of the card.

Sounds to me like they've taken lessons from Hamed's brother (Raith?)

Why should they? Its not their job to help the chancellor out. Its their job to maximise the income of Khan for each fight.

In that case they may have done their job this time. I am sure they will reap the benefits in the years to come.

rowley wrote:Az to be fair we do not know what conversations have been taking place behind the scenes. Is not impossible that Sky told Khan from the off they were not particularly happy with Mc as an opponent and would only do the fight as PPV if the undercard was strong or there was a decent American card to package it with.

All the rumours are Khan has not done great numbers in the past and so it is entirely plausible that such conversations took place. Ultimately for me Sky are the biggest player in town and as such they hold all the aces. Rightly or wrongly when someone is in such a position they get to call the shots. For me Khan needs only to look at Froch to see how being on the outside with Sky can hurt, he is good to watch, a world champion and fighting decent opponents back to back and outside of the hardcore fans is unknown

Exactly, we dont know what was happening behind the scenes, yet many are blaming Khan personally it seems. As soon as Sky knew the opponent, perhaps they should have immediately turned it down as a PPV attraction or at least insisted on a better undercard.

Dont fotget that Sky turned down Haye/Klit in favour of this.

rowley wrote:

azania wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:I can see why Sky wanted it moved off PPV but can't understand the short-sightedness of Team Khan in not accepting to moved to Sky Sports 3. Perhaps they failed to realise there's a recession on and people might not have money to splash around for PPV events especially those lacking depth from the bottom to the top of the card.

Sounds to me like they've taken lessons from Hamed's brother (Raith?)

Why should they? Its not their job to help the chancellor out. Its their job to maximise the income of Khan for each fight.

In that case they may have done their job this time. I am sure they will reap the benefits in the years to come.

Of course they will. Khan is in a strong position in that he is known outside hard-core boxing fans. If his next fight is with Bradley, GBP will push it out big time and Sky will fall in line.

I was being sarcastic, Sky have proven with Froch they are more than willing to ignore good fighters who by rights should be in their stable when they wish. Khan is not big enough to start pushing a company the size of Sky around, he has never done big PPV numbers and so cannot try to take them on. Got to remember whilst Bradley is a decent fighter he is hardly a household name and between them they have the combined charisma of a block of wood. The fight could be big enough to do decent numbers with Sky on board but is not a mega fight that will get Sky going cap in hand to Khan by any stretch.

Why should they? Its not their job to help the chancellor out. Its their job to maximise the income of Khan for each fight.
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Probably do a better job by not alienating the people putting the cash in their pockets then.

You don't hold a beer festival at your local and then charge people admission by getting them to believe they're paying for Oktoberfest!

Juat when you thought boxing was doing a smart thing. SKY made a great move by moving it off ppv. If we had fury v rahman, and maybe some more of the young talents then sure id pay for PPV.

However it is an awful under card, and although a fan of Khans, I will not pay for the PPV here. I said it on another thread but this fight, if on SKY Sports 3 could of helped sel his Bradley fight, talking about how he would fight to be unified champ next, which i beleive most arm chair fans understand about. Rediculous decision from team Khan.

Totaly agree AdZacO

If only they looked ahead to the Bradley fight the earning potential would have been much higher. Put this fight on Sky Sports 3 get the armchair fans interested and theyl pay for a unification fight which sky would promote well.

Come on Rowley they aren't ignoring froch through choice.....I think the fact Warren is a big fish and provides 90% of SKY's Boxing has alot to do with Froch's invisibility...

Hard for Warren to freeze out a heavy champ in Haye.......too bigger fish!

Warren and SKY = King and the WBC..

rowley wrote:Got to remember whilst Bradley is a decent fighter he is hardly a household name and between them they have the combined charisma of a block of wood.

That's not fair! I like Bradley.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Come on Rowley they aren't ignoring froch through choice.....I think the fact Warren is a big fish and provides 90% of SKY's Boxing has alot to do with Froch's invisibility...

Hard for Warren to freeze out a heavy champ in Haye.......too bigger fish!

Warren and SKY = King and the WBC..

Would have thought with Adam Smith at the helm, chances are that Froch may start to get a bit of a look in.

Agree Truss but this only adds to the argument. Warren has no great love of Khan, he knows how cosy a relationship Warren has with Sky. Given this does he really want to be giving Sky excuses to shut him out?

rowley wrote:I was being sarcastic, Sky have proven with Froch they are more than willing to ignore good fighters who by rights should be in their stable when they wish. Khan is not big enough to start pushing a company the size of Sky around, he has never done big PPV numbers and so cannot try to take them on. Got to remember whilst Bradley is a decent fighter he is hardly a household name and between them they have the combined charisma of a block of wood. The fight could be big enough to do decent numbers with Sky on board but is not a mega fight that will get Sky going cap in hand to Khan by any stretch.

Khan is more well known that Froch. Also Khan/Bradley is an easy sell in the UK/Sky. If Sky ignore Khan they are effectively creating more competition for themselves as Khan will go to Primetime and that will be a huge boost for PT. Less people may see him fight, but he will still get as much money as he has GBP bank-rolling him.

DAVE667 wrote:Why should they? Its not their job to help the chancellor out. Its their job to maximise the income of Khan for each fight.
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Probably do a better job by not alienating the people putting the cash in their pockets then.

You don't hold a beer festival at your local and then charge people admission by getting them to believe they're paying for Oktoberfest!

Sorry but sky were the ones who changed things at the last moment. You dont sell tickets for a beer festival then change venues and give your star attraction less money.

Easy sell????

Nothing is an easy sell if you can't get the price right!!!!

Say it again Bradley doesn't have name recognition with the casual fan..

Bradley might as well be Meg Ryan with the low regard people have for alphabet titles these days..

It sells because of Khan but at what price???

DoubleD22 wrote:Totaly agree AdZacO

If only they looked ahead to the Bradley fight the earning potential would have been much higher. Put this fight on Sky Sports 3 get the armchair fans interested and theyl pay for a unification fight which sky would promote well.

What if Khan loses. A boxer should only focus on his next fight and not be too concerned about future fights. Looking ahead has costs many boxers the w.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Easy sell????

Nothing is an easy sell if you can't get the price right!!!!

Say it again Bradley doesn't have name recognition with the casual fan..

Bradley might as well be Meg Ryan with the low regard people have for alphabet titles these days..

It sells because of Khan but at what price???

He doesn't need name recognition. He is the WBC champ and that alone will sell the fight. Moreover he is known in these shores for beating Whitter and selling a bonafide unification fight is easy.

He doesn't need name recognition....

Manny has greater name recognition as do the Klits but they can't sell on PPV...........

Unless he's fighting Manny, Morales or Floyd.. Khan has to sell his fights...

Bradley isn't a big fish over here and after Audley-Haye the public aren't into throwing good money away..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:He doesn't need name recognition....

Manny has greater name recognition as do the Klits but they can't sell on PPV...........

Unless he's fighting Manny, Morales or Floyd.. Khan has to sell his fights...

Bradley isn't a big fish over here and after Audley-Haye the public aren't into throwing good money away..

Not in the UK he doesn't. A home grown World Champ will always be a bigger draw than Johnny Foreigner.

What if Khan loses. A boxer should only focus on his next fight and not be too concerned about future fights. Looking ahead has costs many boxers the w.[/quote]

As a boxer he will be focusing on the next fight as he always does, but as you said its his team that deal with the rest. They should see this fight as an oppurtunity to get more fans in the UK interested in Khan, reaping the benifits at a PPV fight against Bradley. Not imo trying to squeeze the most out of a fight which already hasnt got the greatest undercard. Sometimes you have to take less money to eventualy get more through the extra fans this fight would bring.

Oxring I also like Bradley and quite rate him but I maintain he is hardly box office gold. I maintain Sky are the only company over here capable of doing a mega fight well. They have the advertising budget, TV time across their numerous channels to hype the fight and with Murdoch owning the Sun the press to bulit anticipation and excitement. Primetime have none of these things.

Absolutely maintain Khan needs Sky more than the other way round. Every fighter in Britain should aspire to being on Sky and should not go out of their way to pick a fight with them

Well you've just contradicted yourself then...

DoubleD22 wrote:What if Khan loses. A boxer should only focus on his next fight and not be too concerned about future fights. Looking ahead has costs many boxers the w.

As a boxer he will be focusing on the next fight as he always does, but as you said its his team that deal with the rest. They should see this fight as an oppurtunity to get more fans in the UK interested in Khan, reaping the benifits at a PPV fight against Bradley. Not imo trying to squeeze the most out of a fight which already hasnt got the greatest undercard. Sometimes you have to take less money to eventualy get more through the extra fans this fight would bring.[/quote]

In that case they should cut a deal with BBC,ITV or C5.

Can you imagine or think of any boxer who takes a pay cut when defending his title? And one who agrees a pay cut 2 weeks before a fight? Khan seems to be viewed with a very differently to most other fighters.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Well you've just contradicted yourself then...

Nope

There is no harm the presenters talking about, before and after, although just after if it makes you feel good, and he wins, talking about a future fight with bradley.

And although im sure he has trained for this fight only, it would be naive to think that no part of Khan thinks about unifying the division in his next fight. I just think he hasn't thought about the way to get the most financially out of his next fight, rather than just grabbing as much as he can for this fight.

Bradley doesn't need name recognition to sell himself as wbc champion he sells this fight...selling a bonafide unification is easy..

Home grown talent will always be a bigger draw than johnny foreigner..

Either he's an easy sell or he isn't..

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Bradley doesn't need name recognition to sell himself as wbc champion he sells this fight...selling a bonafide unification is easy..

Home grown talent will always be a bigger draw than johnny foreigner..

Either he's an easy sell or he isn't..

You're American right? No wonder you misunderstand things so easily. Dont worry. I'm still training that out of Mrs Az.

Tim is a world champ. Khan is a world champ. An easy sell. Khan is British. A big draw in the UK. Easy fight to sell. Get my drift?

AdZacO wrote:
There is no harm the presenters talking about, before and after, although just after if it makes you feel good, and he wins, talking about a future fight with bradley.

And although im sure he has trained for this fight only, it would be naive to think that no part of Khan thinks about unifying the division in his next fight. I just think he hasn't thought about the way to get the most financially out of his next fight, rather than just grabbing as much as he can for this fight.

No doubt they are looking down the line. But they shouldn't be so silly as to sell themselves short which is what Sky want them to do. Who put the card together anyway?

No you said he was an easy sell and then said home grown fighters are much easier to sell than Johnny foreigner..

To me it's a contradiction..

Only someone deluded thinks a no-name American sells easy.

Don't be bringing my Country of origin into it...It's cheap.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:No you said he was an easy sell and then said home grown fighters are much easier to sell than Johnny foreigner..

To me it's a contradiction..

Only someone deluded thinks a no-name American sells easy.

Don't be bringing my Country of origin into it...It's cheap.

A unification fight where one champ is British and well known is an easy fight to sell. Where is the contradiction? It doesn't matter if the other champ is a Johnny Foreigner and a no name. Tim being a world champ is an easy sell against Khan. Very easy as he also has a 0.

Grow some humour also truss.

I'm arguing with a guy who thinks Bradley is an easy sell over here when the two greatest fighters of their generation Floyd and Manny who are superstars can't sell on PPV ..

Go figure

azania wrote:

AdZacO wrote:
There is no harm the presenters talking about, before and after, although just after if it makes you feel good, and he wins, talking about a future fight with bradley.

And although im sure he has trained for this fight only, it would be naive to think that no part of Khan thinks about unifying the division in his next fight. I just think he hasn't thought about the way to get the most financially out of his next fight, rather than just grabbing as much as he can for this fight.

No doubt they are looking down the line. But they shouldn't be so silly as to sell themselves short which is what Sky want them to do. Who put the card together anyway?

It's mainly a Hatton card is it not? But surely he must see that it is not PPV quality. Maybe it is not his fault, but i think they would make more money in the long run, if he wins, by having it on sky sports 3.

It's Possible that the fans who do buy this on prime time will feel ripped off if khan blows paul away in the first few rounds (something which is very plausible for me) and therefore less likely to buy any future ppv of his.

Fans should know better but thete will be the few casual fans that got sucked in by te hype by sky before the fight got switched

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:I'm arguing with a guy who thinks Bradley is an easy sell over here when the two greatest fighters of their generation Floyd and Manny who are superstars can't sell on PPV ..

Go figure

Oh dear. The sell is not Tim but the fact that Khan is fighting to unify the title. He could be fighting Johnny Roadsweeper, it still would be an easy sell. Khan is thd draw. The sell is the unification fight.

compelling and rich wrote:It's Possible that the fans who do buy this on prime time will feel ripped off if khan blows paul away in the first few rounds (something which is very plausible for me) and therefore less likely to buy any future ppv of his.

Fans should know better but thete will be the few casual fans that got sucked in by te hype by sky before the fight got switched

Good point CnR think as someone who was on the old 606 you will be well aware of the reaction when Khan was put on PPV against Prescott way too early, still a lot of resentment festering from this one. Personally for me on the back of this when it comes to PPV Khan needed some good publicity and taking the demotion with good grace and spinning it as an opportunity for his fans to see him for free would have been the more pragmatic approach

compelling and rich wrote:It's Possible that the fans who do buy this on prime time will feel ripped off if khan blows paul away in the first few rounds (something which is very plausible for me) and therefore less likely to buy any future ppv of his.

Fans should know better but thete will be the few casual fans that got sucked in by te hype by sky before the fight got switched

Why should they feel ripped off? If Khan KOs him in one round and looks devestating whilst doing it, then more power to him.

I was never going to buy this anyway.

AdZacO wrote:

azania wrote:

AdZacO wrote:
There is no harm the presenters talking about, before and after, although just after if it makes you feel good, and he wins, talking about a future fight with bradley.

And although im sure he has trained for this fight only, it would be naive to think that no part of Khan thinks about unifying the division in his next fight. I just think he hasn't thought about the way to get the most financially out of his next fight, rather than just grabbing as much as he can for this fight.

No doubt they are looking down the line. But they shouldn't be so silly as to sell themselves short which is what Sky want them to do. Who put the card together anyway?

It's mainly a Hatton card is it not? But surely he must see that it is not PPV quality. Maybe it is not his fault, but i think they would make more money in the long run, if he wins, by having it on sky sports 3.

It was a useless card and not worth PPV in the first place. Sky should have said so from the off.

Impression I get is that there are several parties to blame, not just Khan.

His management team are the ones calling the shots and Sky havent convinced me they were blameless either.

Sky obviously agreed at some point that McCloskey was ppv material albeit with a reasonable undercard whn in reality it shouldnt have been ppv.

Khan will cop alot of flack but at the end of the day hes probably just been the guy in training while everyone else around him has made a balls of it.

Would have to agree though that his best course of action would have been just to to accept the hit and use it as a chance to strenghten his domestic support (which was the supposed intention of the fight anyway). Bickering with Sky and isolating fans wont do him any good and could even the spell the end of him bothering to fight in the UK at all. He definately wont be back if Sky arent on board anyway.

Bit of a mess in total but blame has to be shared I think.

azania wrote:

AdZacO wrote:

azania wrote:

AdZacO wrote:
There is no harm the presenters talking about, before and after, although just after if it makes you feel good, and he wins, talking about a future fight with bradley.

And although im sure he has trained for this fight only, it would be naive to think that no part of Khan thinks about unifying the division in his next fight. I just think he hasn't thought about the way to get the most financially out of his next fight, rather than just grabbing as much as he can for this fight.

No doubt they are looking down the line. But they shouldn't be so silly as to sell themselves short which is what Sky want them to do. Who put the card together anyway?

It's mainly a Hatton card is it not? But surely he must see that it is not PPV quality. Maybe it is not his fault, but i think they would make more money in the long run, if he wins, by having it on sky sports 3.

It was a useless card and not worth PPV in the first place. Sky should have said so from the off.

But they put it on PPV before the card was known, as they do most of the time. Once they saw the undercard was struggling, and they gave them alot of time too get it right, they withdrew it from PPV. Maybe they should of done it earlier, but maybe they tried to give them as much time as possible to get a decnt card on.

AdZacO wrote:

azania wrote:

AdZacO wrote:

azania wrote:

AdZacO wrote:
There is no harm the presenters talking about, before and after, although just after if it makes you feel good, and he wins, talking about a future fight with bradley.

And although im sure he has trained for this fight only, it would be naive to think that no part of Khan thinks about unifying the division in his next fight. I just think he hasn't thought about the way to get the most financially out of his next fight, rather than just grabbing as much as he can for this fight.

No doubt they are looking down the line. But they shouldn't be so silly as to sell themselves short which is what Sky want them to do. Who put the card together anyway?

It's mainly a Hatton card is it not? But surely he must see that it is not PPV quality. Maybe it is not his fault, but i think they would make more money in the long run, if he wins, by having it on sky sports 3.

It was a useless card and not worth PPV in the first place. Sky should have said so from the off.

But they put it on PPV before the card was known, as they do most of the time. Once they saw the undercard was struggling, and they gave them alot of time too get it right, they withdrew it from PPV. Maybe they should of done it earlier, but maybe they tried to give them as much time as possible to get a decnt card on.

They should have insisted on a quality card from the off and not leave it till 2 weeks before geeting narked.

rowley wrote:

compelling and rich wrote:It's Possible that the fans who do buy this on prime time will feel ripped off if khan blows paul away in the first few rounds (something which is very plausible for me) and therefore less likely to buy any future ppv of his.

Fans should know better but thete will be the few casual fans that got sucked in by te hype by sky before the fight got switched

Good point CnR think as someone who was on the old 606 you will be well aware of the reaction when Khan was put on PPV against Prescott way too early, still a lot of resentment festering from this one. Personally for me on the back of this when it comes to PPV Khan needed some good publicity and taking the demotion with good grace and spinning it as an opportunity for his fans to see him for free would have been the more pragmatic approach

true jeff, like i said earlier khan may well be struggling to sell because now he has alot less "haters" due to him getting his head down and moving to amercia. i remember alot saying on the old 606 they bought fights like the prescott fight hoping him to get knocked out and plenty sure did rejoice in it when it happened. he use to divide opinion alot more. theres not too many arguments with what he has done since leaving warren, although i do think mcclosky is a backwards step and a attempt at a easy payday exploiting the home fans that has back fired

I actually think the principle behind the Khan fight was sound. Maybe Im in the minority but I had no real problem with the McCloskey fight as I dont think McCloskey is as big a deadbeat as hes made out. I think hes earned a world title shot on merit. People all still going on ad nauseum about Murray. Macklin etc not getting it done so I was a bit surprised to see McCloskey not get the acceptance I think hes earned.

I also view it as a precursor to the Bradley fight and given Khan was in a life or death fight with Maidana I saw a domestic fight with a credible contender as a pretty good way to consolidate the British fanbase.

Obviously its gone a bit sour and I would stress that I think ppv is far too routine now but I also think its only fair to judge Khan by the same standards as the boxing world we live in.

PPV events like Hatton v Lazcano and Haye v Harrison are still fresh in my memory.....

manos- the thing is alot of fighters stepping up to world level like paul normally try to pick up one of the weaker ones off. very unusual for a fighter to step up from euro level and fight one of best in divison. its like jennings v cotto, it does nothing for boxing if paul gets spanked.

compelling and rich wrote:manos- the thing is alot of fighters stepping up to world level like paul normally try to pick up one of the weaker ones off. very unusual for a fighter to step up from euro level and fight one of best in divison. its like jennings v cotto, it does nothing for boxing if paul gets spanked.

Well I think thats a pretty extreme example. Jennings is not as good McCloskey and Cotto was better than Khan. The gap was pretty wide.

Not sure where you want McCloskey to go as his only alternative is Tim Bradley!

from what i understanding sky and khan's team are still on good teams and it's just this one fight that has been pulled due the the lack of a decent undercard.

i think british fans will always follow who they perceive as their best chance at champion (unified), haye and khan for example have large followings with realitive few "big names" under there sleeve.

also with khan a feel he was lucky in the respect that he was shown on bbc 1 on the olympics, then ITV for quite a few of his professional fights as first. not many fighters would get that exposure from the beginning of their careers.

coxy0001 wrote:Why should Sky have stuck to their word? They're the ones bankrolling Khan, they're the ones taking the burden of the little matter of financial risk - the fight bombs on PPV numbers and they've got absolutely NADA.

Sky should be applauded, which was the general consensus here when they put in on SS3 instead of PPV before Khan throwing his toys out of the pram.

Sadly, idiots like you think differently

Agree Coxy, Hatton Promotions must also take some blame for this for putting together a poor unsellable undercard. Surely their job is to put on a show capable of entertaining to such an extent that it is sellable. Considering Sky are the main (by a huge margin too) players in the market, then Hatton Promotions have failed by not understanding market needs and not delivering a sellable product.

I'm not always in favour of Sky, but on the face of it, I find it hard to blame them here.

I'm with Truss on this one, Khan while well known has never done big PPV numbers in this country and Bradley is a relative no name outside of boxing and as such the fight would sell well because of Khan but not spectatorluly. Neither has the pulling power of a Haye or a Hatton.

Come on you boxing fans,give your support for Amir Khan in his bout with McCloskey tonight. We have a boxer here who has the ability to go a long way and he does come from Bolton whose football team are hopefully on their way to the final. As you may guess, I lived in Bolton 38 years ago.

it would only have taken one other great fight on the undercard, degale/groves or something along them lines and sky would probably have stuck with PPV