Ulster Vs Cardiff Blues Friday 28th September k/o 7.05

First topic message reminder :

From an Ulster point of view, we may not get much chat on this one, thats fine and understandable. For those on both sides who want to discuss the game ahead, I feel they should be welcomed to do so.

Ulster are (understandably) taking a little longer to announce a squad for this one. I wonder if anyone has any info on whether there was training as per usual?

I imagine that the new guys and the older more experienced guys will play. Perhaps a few younger guys might be advised to sit it out for another week. I think all in all, there's a fairly Northern Irish attitude to get on with things. I think we will see a strong Ulster side. And I expect they will play well.

I want Cardiff fans to talk freely on here. You should be targeting a win (same as always), and not worrying about our team. I believe once the selected players hear that whistle, it will be business as usual.

There must be some sort of second row balance reason for Stevenson not starting when Muller isnt.

Someone (maybe Don) litterally just mentioned allen playing all along the backs a few minutes ago and then he's proved correct by Anscombe.

Paddy will be on for the last 20 or more.

Allen moved to 13 when Cave came off against Munster. Anscombe clearly rates him there.

No 1F either?

Muller rested and Stevenson on bench is intresting, resting them I suppose for Connacht and then H-cup.

Allen will be replaced by Wallace at some point,

Henderson on Ferris rested, Henry in Diack not even on bench, rested?

When will Wilson be fit?

No NOC so I execpt Wallace will cover outhalf.


overall, backs strong, half backs as strong as we can field, back row players need games, Henderson to progress and Henry to get match fit, locks intresting, but solid, front row stron

Michael Allen has surely played most of his rugby at Centre, no?

He played there at school anyway.

Not too sure about the balance of the centre partnership- we'll need Jackson to take the ball to the line a fair bit.

Bowe is one of the few players who have been allowed straight into the 15. Paddy has to prove himself from the bench.

I was fairly skeptical of Notch (I think) claiming paddy will not be first choice this season. Now I'm starting to wonder! Its one of those things - sad but ultimately it might be best for Ulster's development.

Doyle rested? Or injured, or fallen down the pecking order?

We arn't used to have squad depth. When someone isn't even on the bench we do a serious amount of

MrsP wrote:Michael Allen has surely played most of his rugby at Centre, no?

He played there at school anyway.

Quite possible MrsP. My knowledge of Allen was non-existent prior to pre-season. Surprised how he leap frogged Cochrane!

Yeah, MrsP, I think so. He can cover wing, but he's really a centre.

Surprised by McComish over Diack (although Mike's last game for Ulster has been the best I've seen).

You know it's an intriguing selection when you are struck by something new every time you look at the team!

Too early to tell if he'll be first choice or not. This is his first game back. Bowe is the only returning player to go straight into the 23 this season.

No need to scratch your head, this is rotation. Expect to see our strongest team next week at Ravenhill as we build into the Castres game. Doyle, Stevenson, Luke Marshall etc. have had plenty of chances to show what they can do. Now we're looking at other players.

On that I think Doyle has been very good at openside in the games he's played look forward to see Henry back there though. If Henry gets back to his best we will be looking pretty strong at 7 which was one of the positions we were a bit concerned about at the start of the season due to a lack of depth - I think Doyle has answered that.

This may help.

Unavailable for selection: Johann Muller, Stephen Ferris, Paddy McAllister, Chris Farrell, Robbie Diack, Ruan Pienaar, Roger Wilson, Declan Fitzpatrick, Rory Best

Ah. Well there you have it. Pretty much the best team available, then.

Think with muller out, it would have been Touhy and Stevenson starting, but Stevenson has played a lot so far, and they will want to give him a bit of a rest before Connacht and Castres, and he will likley be on bench and come on for those games

Paddy McAllister, Best, Fitzpatrick
Muller, ?
Ferris, Wilson, Diack
Pienaar, ?

Nearly a team of forwards and half backs out. And a pretty good team as well.

Notch wrote:Too early to tell if he'll be first choice or not. This is his first game back. Bowe is the only returning player to go straight into the 23 this season.

No need to scratch your head, this is rotation. Expect to see our strongest team next week at Ravenhill as we build into the Castres game. Doyle, Stevenson, Luke Marshall etc. have had plenty of chances to show what they can do. Now we're looking at other players.

I think for the first time in a long while there would be a serious amount of debate among us as to what our actual strongest 15 is. Last season the best 15 was fairly obvious, but its great to see so many tight calls this season.

I'm starting to feel anscombe is working some magic with this squad.

The most interesting omission is Luke Marshall who's been very good. We need to assess our options at centre in the light of Nevin Spences tragic death and the injury to Chris Farrell.

Also it's harsh on Gilroy to be starting on the bench for a second week in a row, hope he gets a start next week.

Blues Team

15. Dan Fish 14. Harry Robinson 13. Dafydd Hewitt 12. Jamie Roberts 11. Tom James 10. Jason Tovey 9. Lloyd Williams

8. Andries Pretorius (c) 7. Sam Warburton 6. Robin Copeland 5. James Down 4. Bradley Davies 3. Taufa'ao Filise 2. Andi Kyriacou 1. Nathan Trevett

16. Rhys Williams 17. Campese Ma'afu 18. Scott Andrews 19. Lou Reed 20. Rory Watts-Jones 21. Rob Lewis 22. Gareth Davies 23. Tom Williams


Patchell, Evans & Navidi rested = Tovey at 10, copeland shifts to 6 and hewitt in for Evans.

Personally I really dont see a player of Gilroys ability should have to be on the bench whenever Bowe Trimble and most likely Payne could do great jobs at 13 rather than Allen.

But as you say Notch. Maybe just looking at an option. Strange that we would look at Allen now with Cave inside him instead of Paddy.

I had noticed and then immediately forgotten Marshalls omission. Interesting stuff.

Well, we need to look at Allen now. No point in waiting until we need him and he has no gametime. Anscombe has picked him in I think every single one of his teams though and you can see him growing in confidence each week.

He's been the player who has thrived most under Anscombe. He's solid, reliable and composed.

I like Anscombe's way.

Taking the longer view of things and developing our centres without depleting us of our excellent wings. Ensure that every player is keen to see the team sheet every week to see if he is getting a run out.

It could of course also be dictated by how everyone has managed to deal with the past 10 days. It could have hit some harder than others.

Hope our front row can lay the foundation for another away win in Wales. They have some inexperience there, whereas we have a good scrum. Hope losing Muller for this match won't hurt our lineout too much, a lot of pressure on Tuohy.

We could and should shade this one if we can deal with the emotion of the return to the pitch without Nevin.

I like that he has the experienced pair of wings outside Allen. That will be a comfort to the lad.

clivemcl wrote:Personally I really dont see a player of Gilroys ability should have to be on the bench whenever Bowe Trimble and most likely Payne could do great jobs at 13 rather than Allen.

Don't forget that Bowe and Trimble were Ireland's first choice wings for last years six nations.
In last nights Telegraph Anscombe pointed out that Trimble is a world class winger and he wasn't considering him for any other position.

I think there is no harm in a bit of competition. Let Anscombe rotate the three of them for maximum effect. Any of them would be a devastating sub to bring on.

That is a seriously big pack of forwards Notch, McCombe is a great lineout man as well and we also have Henderson and Henry.

clivemcl wrote:
Doyle rested? Or injured, or fallen down the pecking order?

It's maybe that McComish gives better cover across the backrow. Actually McComish's performances this season have been a revelation. He's another who has seized his oportunities when they have come along.

gcBlues wrote:Blues Team
15. Dan Fish 14. Harry Robinson 13. Dafydd Hewitt 12. Jamie Roberts 11. Tom James 10. Jason Tovey 9. Lloyd Williams
8. Andries Pretorius (c) 7. Sam Warburton 6. Robin Copeland 5. James Down 4. Bradley Davies 3. Taufa'ao Filise 2. Andi Kyriacou 1. Nathan Trevett
16. Rhys Williams 17. Campese Ma'afu 18. Scott Andrews 19. Lou Reed 20. Rory Watts-Jones 21. Rob Lewis 22. Gareth Davies 23. Tom Williams

Patchell, Evans & Navidi rested = Tovey at 10, copeland shifts to 6 and hewitt in for Evans.

Good to see Tovey been given a shot and Pretorious back (he'll make a difference) but suprised they've dropped Reed and the French prop.

Well Down coming in for Reed is like for like, both do the hard yards and a physical players so i'm not so bothered about that, what strikes me is the front row as you mentioned SP. It was solid last week, why change it? I haven't read anything about Borrustt being injured so who knows.

Will be a strange one for Andy K.

gcBlues wrote:Well Down coming in for Reed is like for like, both do the hard yards and a physical players so i'm not so bothered about that, what strikes me is the front row as you mentioned SP. It was solid last week, why change it? I haven't read anything about Borrustt being injured so who knows.

Yeah, I don't think much of Trevitt, and from what I've seen of the Blues they seem to struggle more with him in the scrum than the Borrustt

gcBlues wrote:Blues Team

15.....

Patchell, Evans & Navidi rested = Tovey at 10, copeland shifts to 6 and hewitt in for Evans.

Good old BBC covered the team release so well

BBC Muppets http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19732244 wrote:.....For the Blues, fly-half ex-Dragon Jason Tovey makes his full Pro12 debut.

Harry Robinson and Gavin Evans also come in behind with Taufa'ao Filise, James Down and Andries Pretorius returning up front for the hosts.

Delighted to see Tovey get a crack from the off, as I am curious to see how he will go. Obviously I will be otherwise engaged down RP, but I will probably sky plus this now. I thought from the OP title this game was at Ravers though, until I saw one of Notch's posts.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

gcBlues wrote:Blues Team

15.....

Patchell, Evans & Navidi rested = Tovey at 10, copeland shifts to 6 and hewitt in for Evans.

Good old BBC covered the team release so well

BBC Muppets http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/19732244 wrote:.....For the Blues, fly-half ex-Dragon Jason Tovey makes his full Pro12 debut.

Harry Robinson and Gavin Evans also come in behind with Taufa'ao Filise, James Down and Andries Pretorius returning up front for the hosts.

This is Tovey's first start is it not?
Or did you just mean the "Gavin Evans" bit?

MrsP, yeah Gavin Evans dropps out of the squad totally, yet they say he has 'come in'. Just poor journo skills, as per the norm.

Nice to see Henderson getting some game time, but, if he ends up as a six, I will curse us forever. I've no problem with him getting an introduction to pro rugby there, but if he doesn't get moved to lock soon, and we get a situation like D.Ryan, it will be a major mistake.

On Gilroy, the big surprise for me was Michael Allen starting ahead of him against Munster. Trimble has one start and Bowe has no gametime at all, so both need the minutes ahead of the Heineken Cup more than Gilroy does.

Hopefully next week we'll see Gilroy and Bowe on the wings together with Trimble coming off the bench. Then the best two across these two games getting the nod for Castres.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:MrsP, yeah Gavin Evans dropps out of the squad totally, yet they say he has 'come in'. Just poor journo skills, as per the norm.

The BBC Welsh rugby coverage gets worse and worse (and I think the same can be said for Scottish and Irish coverage), I mean I know they've had drastic cut backs but this is just embarrasing!

Dear Ulster Rugby,

Thank you for answering my prayers.

Love you long time,

Cari xx

Interesting game. Looking at the Ulster team they're missing a few for this I would have backed the Blues. But for some odd reason Phil is chopping and changing, Blues best XV was two or three selection out from the team put out last week. What is he up to? So I've reconsidered and I think Ulster will pinch it. Phsyched up, well rested(or lacking match fitness?), and should be top of the league. The match against Zebre was a guaranteed 5 pointer. Besides that, Ulster have beaten three teams who were in last seasons play-offs. I think they could have a good season. Blues might do well this year if they don't get many injuries, which is unlikely with the international call-ups, their depth is looking pretty weak.

valjester wrote:Nice to see Henderson getting some game time, but, if he ends up as a six, I will curse us forever. I've no problem with him getting an introduction to pro rugby there, but if he doesn't get moved to lock soon, and we get a situation like D.Ryan, it will be a major mistake.

I agree 100%.

Also, I would have preferred to see Luke Marshall hold onto the 12 shirt. He has impressed me immensely.

Come now Rory, Marshall will get plenty of games at 12. The coach has to see what other options are available. He has lost a game already where he would most likely have experimented a bit. The loss of two 13's in the space of two weeks will have given him a few headaches I suppose.
Don't forget Marshall has played in all our games so far. Would you rather he was knackered by Christmas?

I'd disagree with a few on here...

At kick off I expect Ulster to be highly charged, and I think emotions may take a lot out of them after a frenzied first 30, no home crowd, put the events of last week behind them, but at the forefront of everyones mind (make sense?)

From Cardiff I'd want to see a very controlled first 30, use the boot, hit the corners and keep ball. Containment is the name of the game, then hopefully we'll have more in the legs last 20!

I am amazed by no Johan, thought his experience would be key.

Purely rugby wise if the Blues hit thier shots at goal I think 3-5 point win.

Yeah you are right, however I was enjoying his performances so far. Hence why I would have liked to see him again.

Did I read Patchell rested??? BULL!!!

At 19 Patchell could play 3 Rabo games a week if they'd let him, Davies just doesn't have the stones to trust the kid against what is prob the toughest opposition we've faced!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Did I read Patchell rested??? BULL!!!

At 19 Patchell could play 3 Rabo games a week if they'd let him, Davies just doesn't have the stones to trust the kid against what is prob the toughest opposition we've faced!!

Or maybe it's because Tovey, who was probably going to be our starting 10 had he not been ill, deserves a start at 10. Patchell has played well for us so far but you don't want the team to get dependent on him like we did with Nicky, that's when he'll try to much. You've seen what the media has been like about him, typical bigging up of a new player to ridiculous heights and you have posters talking about him being selected for wales!! Phil has just taken him out of the limelight for a week in order to give him a rest and let Tovery get his first start. Let's just relax about his ommission, ok big guy?

Fair point GC, I didn't know he was 19. Maybe he should feature for the Wales U20 first. We'll see how he goes then maybe he'll be on the summer test tour. Besides if he doesn't get selected then I guess it's more likely to be Prydie (as 15 cover).

gcBlues wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:Did I read Patchell rested??? BULL!!!

At 19 Patchell could play 3 Rabo games a week if they'd let him, Davies just doesn't have the stones to trust the kid against what is prob the toughest opposition we've faced!!

Or maybe it's because Tovey, who was probably going to be our starting 10 had he not been ill, deserves a start at 10. Patchell has played well for us so far but you don't want the team to get dependent on him like we did with Nicky, that's when he'll try to much. You've seen what the media has been like about him, typical bigging up of a new player to ridiculous heights and you have posters talking about him being selected for wales!! Phil has just taken him out of the limelight for a week in order to give him a rest and let Tovery get his first start. Let's just relax about his ommission, ok big guy?

+1

At the same time, I can understand why people are excited by Patchell. He looked like a class act at Rodney Parade (not that there were many others playing well).

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:At the same time, I can understand why people are excited by Patchell. He looked like a class act at Rodney Parade (not that there were many others playing well).

Yup if he keeps playing well this season and next and does well on the summer tour (is it of North America?) while the Lions are on then he could well find himself the Wales No1 before his 21st birthday!!!

But at the moment he'll have a fight on his hands with Tovey for the Blues shirt (which will be exciting) and we'll be able to see if he can keep his great early season form up.

I'm going to stick my neck out and call this a bonus point win for Ulster but with the blues getting a LBP.