Why do only Wales and England fans argue?

by RogerLewis Mon 19 Nov 2012, 2:13 pm

Why? Why do they bicker? Why do they wind each other up? Why are 99% of Welsh articles written by an English fan called HERSH? I find the rivalries and inferiority complexes rather perplexing.

Scottish people hate (not all) English people
English people hate (not all) French people
Welsh people take a dislike to England and pretend they're a member of some kind of post WWII Celtic pact.

but... only the Welsh and English argue on there boards. Why? I can't remember seeing an Irish or a Scot winding each other up. not even Oz and Kiwis!! The closest thing rugby has to football fans is us Welsh and English Sad

I'm vocal, I write a lot of stuff but rarely is it not about Wales.

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 2:17 pm

It's just like we're 2 brothers really, arguing one minute and then when dad comes home (AWOP) and gives us a row we're best friends again and actually miss each other Hug

by RogerLewis Mon 19 Nov 2012, 2:20 pm

After seeing a pic on Jamie Roberts Twitter having a post match pint with a Samoan it made me remember it's just a game. Someone's gotta lose. Also I admire the respect outside of thepthe pitch and we must never forget how good Samoa and Argentina played.

The results got me down but then I just though about how bad things were before 2005.

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 2:22 pm

You didn't see what Jamie slipped into his pint for Biggar thumbsup

by AlastairW Mon 19 Nov 2012, 2:22 pm

You use the word 'hate' a lot. Don't include me in that list, if i 'hated' that much i'd just be constantly tired from it all and probabley grow into a bitter old man.

It's far from the only rivallry, they are all over all rugby playing nations, we are just more salient to the ones nearest and most applicable to us.

by gregortree Mon 19 Nov 2012, 2:34 pm

France
We do not hate the French - well at rugby anyway.
We are great rugby rivals of course but that is not the same thing at all.

Scots
rugby is not really a threat to anyone, so nobody 'hates' them much.

Wales v England
bragging rights are where it is at in recent years because it has been so nip & tuck. Ok cue some smart alec to roll out the stats. on that.
Irish:
everyone love the Irish of course cos of their craic & humour.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon 19 Nov 2012, 2:50 pm

You seem to have forgotten to use the word 'some', Roger. Some Scottish people hate English people, some English people hate French people, and so on. There are bigots in every country.

I struggle with the concept of hating someone you haven't met, whether that's based on where they come from or any other criterion. It would be just as stupid for me to say I love all Welshmen.

by Geordie Mon 19 Nov 2012, 2:55 pm

Ah i dont hate anyone...

Its generally just good hearted banter until you get the specfic wums that just... steam

....and it all goes pear shaped... boxing

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:00 pm

We should start a thread on sport specific dislikes - As I mentioned last week, some of my welsh mates who despise some of the english rugby posters are the same ones eulogising about Poulter, Westwood and Luke Donald - It's a funny thing and I bet it's sport specific. I just love those 3 golfers mentioned and last time I looked they were english thumbsup

In fact the Ryder Cup now ranks alongside the 6 Nations for me and I would have put a lot of money on that not happening and I mean a lot thumbsup

by gregortree Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:02 pm

Ruby, if you like golf, then you would hate my golf as much as I do.

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:05 pm

Club Captain Greg but keep that quiet as I'm the only welshman in the club (variation on a theme there) thumbsup

by majesticimperialman Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:24 pm

I do not believe that all Welsh people hate all English people has you say.

Over the last 9 years or so since England won the Rugby World Cup. And have not won anything else like that since. Wales have won 3 Grand Slams. And they seem to think that they are better than England becuase of it.

So England get a lot of flak from Welsh fans saying that Wales are better than England because of these Grand Slams. But Wales never seem to get any higher in the IRB world Rankins.

So what starts out as rival banter, turns into a full scale battle for Bragging rights.

But no i do not beieve that Wales fans hate England fans at all.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:34 pm

majesticimperialman wrote:I do not believe that all Welsh people hate all English people has you say.

Over the last 9 years or so since England won the Rugby World Cup. And have not won anything else like that since. Wales have won 3 Grand Slams. And they seem to think that they are better than England becuase of it.

So England get a lot of flak from Welsh fans saying that Wales are better than England because of these Grand Slams. But Wales never seem to get any higher in the IRB world Rankins.

So what starts out as rival banter, turns into a full scale battle for Bragging rights.

But no i do not beieve that Wales fans hate England fans at all.

That post sounds more of a symptom than an explanation Maj Wink

I just don't get why the bragging rights are seen as important - who really cares who the 5th best team in the world is anyway. Wink

Though I admit that's my bias, I care far more about the identty of the current world champions/current world #1 Wink

by ScarletSpiderman Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:44 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I do not believe that all Welsh people hate all English people has you say.

Over the last 9 years or so since England won the Rugby World Cup. And have not won anything else like that since. Wales have won 3 Grand Slams. And they seem to think that they are better than England becuase of it.

So England get a lot of flak from Welsh fans saying that Wales are better than England because of these Grand Slams. But Wales never seem to get any higher in the IRB world Rankins.

So what starts out as rival banter, turns into a full scale battle for Bragging rights.

But no i do not beieve that Wales fans hate England fans at all.

That post sounds more of a symptom than an explanation Maj

I just don't get why the bragging rights are seen as important - who really cares who the 5th best team in the world is anyway.

Though I admit that's my bias, I care far more about the identty of the current world champions/current world #1

But surely your team should be England, after all your a kiwi living there. Be careful, if you've there for more than 3 years they'll cap you!

Being serious it is just banter, and some people take light-hearted wums more serious than they should. And as a result get a bit catty in return. But all in all it is just a bit of fun winding up your neighbour.

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:47 pm

Lets cut to the chase lads and acting in my old 606 name the real cause of this is that deep down these peoples from both nations have great inferiority complexes and much of how they feel deep within their psyche is rooted in how their national team perfoms - If either Wales or England win then the other with this deep rooted angst feels violated and a lesser person. This then manifests itself with purile posts of ridicule to try and balance the fragile psyche. Conversley a win causes the weak individial to temprarily like their foe in a rather superior and patronising sort of way.

My advice to these poorly afflicted individuals is to try some classic Freudian reaction-formation techniques and/or read or keep a copy of Kiplings "If" handy - Genuinely it will help with the inner angst and make you a far nicer person all round. Simples really thumbsup

by Geordie Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:54 pm

deep down these peoples from both nations have great inferiority complexes

Well that didnt take long Very Happy

by gregortree Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:57 pm

Ruby - Club Captain !
That is outrageous, Waldrom & Hartley are more English than you are !
Is there no shame to this English poaching of other nations' sporting talent. Laugh

BTW
well done - but you would definitely hate my golf.

by englandglory4ever Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:58 pm

Its all down to the Welsh chip on both shoulders really. They still think its they that really own England and all us English are just foreign imports. Goes back a long way. I suspect its even taught in welsh schools history lessons today. Its certainly not taught in English schools as far as I'm aware. Can't remember being taught a single thing about the Welsh when I was at school. Its just their Rugby supporters that constantly wind me up.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:59 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I do not believe that all Welsh people hate all English people has you say.

Over the last 9 years or so since England won the Rugby World Cup. And have not won anything else like that since. Wales have won 3 Grand Slams. And they seem to think that they are better than England becuase of it.

So England get a lot of flak from Welsh fans saying that Wales are better than England because of these Grand Slams. But Wales never seem to get any higher in the IRB world Rankins.

So what starts out as rival banter, turns into a full scale battle for Bragging rights.

But no i do not beieve that Wales fans hate England fans at all.

That post sounds more of a symptom than an explanation Maj

I just don't get why the bragging rights are seen as important - who really cares who the 5th best team in the world is anyway.

Though I admit that's my bias, I care far more about the identty of the current world champions/current world #1

But surely your team should be England, after all your a kiwi living there. Be careful, if you've there for more than 3 years they'll cap you!

Being serious it is just banter, and some people take light-hearted wums more serious than they should. And as a result get a bit catty in return. But all in all it is just a bit of fun winding up your neighbour.

"Be careful, if you've there for more than 3 years they'll cap you!" Laugh

It's been over 6. And if they try to cap me they've got a lot more problems than anyone thinks Wink

- 37 year old ex-lock/prop with bad knees, bad back, dodgy ankles, ...

Though I am sitting my "Life in the UK" exam tomorrow Yikes

by MunsterMac Mon 19 Nov 2012, 3:59 pm

Why do only Wales and England fans argue?

Because the English by virtue of their past feel that generally, regardless of the reality of the situation, they are better than everyone else at everything.

Whereas the Welsh by virtue of their past feel that rugby is the one thing that they have a chance of discussing with anyone on an equal standing.

So when two 'fundamentalist' supporters of the two countries encounter each other.... KAPOW!!

Ridiculously un-pc and generalistic I know but I think that's the nub of it.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:04 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:Its all down to the Welsh chip on both shoulders really. They still think its they that really own England and all us English are just foreign imports. Goes back a long way. I suspect its even taught in welsh schools history lessons today. Its certainly not taught in English schools as far as I'm aware. Can't remember being taught a single thing about the Welsh when I was at school. Its just their Rugby supporters that constantly wind me up.

And you've just lived up to the English fan stereotype EG4 Whistle

It takes 2 to tango.

Actually, why don't you lot settle this on Strictly Come Dancing Whistle

EG4, Hersh and Cyril vs RogLewis, Viewto and Morganwyg

We'll even get the GreyGhost in as dance coach ...

(everyone knows NZ player/coach imports are the key to success after all Whistle

)

by Gibson Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:05 pm

gregortree wrote:France
We do not hate the French - well at rugby anyway.
We are great rugby rivals of course but that is not the same thing at all.

Scots
rugby is not really a threat to anyone, so nobody 'hates' them much.

Wales v England
bragging rights are where it is at in recent years because it has been so nip & tuck. Ok cue some smart alec to roll out the stats. on that.
Irish:
everyone love the Irish of course cos of their craic & humour.

The Irish spend most of their lives having a go at each other. Keeps em off the streets I spose.

by **rodders** Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:05 pm

MunsterMac wrote:
Why do only Wales and England fans argue?

Because the English by virtue of their past feel that generally, regardless of the reality of the situation, they are better than everyone else at everything.

Whereas the Welsh by virtue of their past feel that rugby is the one thing that they have a chance of discussing with anyone on an equal standing.

So when two 'fundamentalist' supporters of the two countries encounter each other.... KAPOW!!

Ridiculously un-pc and generalistic I know but I think that's the nub of it.

Why do only Wales and England fans argue? 1347041234

......

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:06 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:Its all down to the Welsh chip on both shoulders really. They still think its they that really own England and all us English are just foreign imports. Goes back a long way. I suspect its even taught in welsh schools history lessons today. Its certainly not taught in English schools as far as I'm aware. Can't remember being taught a single thing about the Welsh when I was at school. Its just their Rugby supporters that constantly wind me up.

And the first deep rooted inferiority rears his little head thumbsup

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:08 pm

gregortree wrote:Ruby - Club Captain !
That is outrageous, Waldrom & Hartley are more English than you are !
Is there no shame to this English poaching of other nations' sporting talent.

BTW
well done - but you would definitely hate my golf.

You must be off 24 - I would only "hate" your golf Greg if you had a 3 or 4 handicap - Please don't say you have . PLEASE!!!!! Hug

I qualified on the residency rule by the way, great fan of it

by gregortree Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:12 pm

Yes good guess, ~ 24, play 3 times a year type of player.
So your boys are England qualified Laugh

by EnglishReign Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:13 pm

I think the Welsh and Scottish dislike "Englishness", rather than English people. I've got loads of Welsh mates that go on about arrogant England to my face, without making the connection.

Some idiots overstep the line but it's mainly banter.

by englandglory4ever Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:13 pm

"And the first deep rooted inferiority rears his little head "

Where's the inferiority in what I said? Please read again and you will see that I am merely pointing out the Welsh inferiority. Are you a journalist by trade? ie, someone who misinterprets what other people say and make up a false story?

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:13 pm

gregortree wrote:Yes good guess, ~ 24, play 3 times a year type of player.
So your boys are England qualified

Not sure about my boys but my wife was born in Zambia so that should make her England qualified mate Very Happy

by SecretFly Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:16 pm

Okay, my psychoanalytical attempt:

They live in the same house. That means personal space issues are always going to cause tension. "Why do you turn on the bloody hoover just when I want to watch Top Gear?!!" - "Why do you watch three grizzled old has-beens pretending they're teens when your boxers are standing on the floor of the bedroom where you left them last night!!!?"

So England and Wales, in briefs , are an old couple who are forced to live together long after the marriage has passed the lovers stage.

England is the overbearing husband - always putting down the wife in public, forever talking about the renewal of potency that is coming with the help of some viagra, and yet being insulted by the long suffering wife who quickly answers that a bowl full of viagra still produces little in the way of constructive assistance in the department of Visible Interest.

Wales is the hot tempered wife who throws pots and pans around the kitchen but always tells the police 'He started it' when the neighbours ring 999. She can still wear sexy clothes and turn men's eyes and she uses it to make the husband jealous whenever she can. But of course, she also comes home and has to undress in his presence. The frailty of image slides off onto cotton wool pads and the husband giggles smugly to himself as he steps out of his boxers and leaves them there to stand guard through the night over the marital bed of 'bliss'.

That's the best I can do on a difficult topic

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:17 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:"And the first deep rooted inferiority rears his little head "

Where's the inferiority in what I said? Please read again and you will see that I am merely pointing out the Welsh inferiority. Are you a journalist by trade? ie, someone who misinterprets what other people say and make up a false story?

And there we go again - the worse type of ignorance is that which the person doesn't even know, it becomes ingrained into their "norm" - Now go read Kiplings "If" and try to respect your fellow being. As for the fellow above going on about welshness and scotttishness and englishness tut tut, trawling out nationalistic stereotypes is where you need to start lesson 1. I know you guys can do it - you can thumbsup

by englandglory4ever Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:18 pm

"Not sure about my boys but my wife was born in Zambia so that should make her England qualified mate "

This is a very interesting comment. It shows that the Welsh think only England use players born elsewhere. I'm too tired to list the quasi-Welsh players. Some Welsh genuinely think only England could do such a dastardly thing. It must be their primary school syllabus.

by Feckless Rogue Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:19 pm

gregortree wrote:everyone love the Irish of course cos of their craic & humour

Not completely true. Everybody loves the Irish except one group of people. And unfortunately they're also Irish and live on the same island as us. Run

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:20 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:"Not sure about my boys but my wife was born in Zambia so that should make her England qualified mate "

This is a very interesting comment. It shows that the Welsh think only England use players born elsewhere. I'm too tired to list the quasi-Welsh players. Some Welsh genuinely think only England could do such a dastardly thing.

The only thing it illustrates my friend is that you are driven by emotion and in doing so you miss the satire that Gregor enjoys. You are blinding yourself which is a great shame. Shame really - enjoy the rugby thumbsup

by majesticimperialman Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:20 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
majesticimperialman wrote:I do not believe that all Welsh people hate all English people has you say.

Over the last 9 years or so since England won the Rugby World Cup. And have not won anything else like that since. Wales have won 3 Grand Slams. And they seem to think that they are better than England becuase of it.

So England get a lot of flak from Welsh fans saying that Wales are better than England because of these Grand Slams. But Wales never seem to get any higher in the IRB world Rankins.

So what starts out as rival banter, turns into a full scale battle for Bragging rights.

But no i do not beieve that Wales fans hate England fans at all.

That post sounds more of a symptom than an explanation Maj

I just don't get why the bragging rights are seen as important - who really cares who the 5th best team in the world is anyway.

Though I admit that's my bias, I care far more about the identty of the current world champions/current world #1

Pete, you see sincw Wales lost to Samoa i do believe that they are now in 8th place in the IRB World Rankins.

Welsh fans believe that Wales should not be 8th in the world, they believe that they should be 1st or 2nd.

Only us England fans know that Wales are not that good.

by **rodders** Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:21 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:
I'm too tired to list the quasi-Welsh players.

Let me get this right.....are you calling Adam jones a hunchback?

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:22 pm

rodders wrote:
englandglory4ever wrote:
I'm too tired to list the quasi-Welsh players.

Let me get this right.....are you calling Adam jones a hunchback?

by gregortree Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:22 pm

... and are Irish rugby qualified Laugh

what a paradox guinness

by HERSH Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:23 pm

Do we argue?

by **Biltong** Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:25 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Lets cut to the chase lads and acting in my old 606 name the real cause of this is that deep down these peoples from both nations have great inferiority complexes and much of how they feel deep within their psyche is rooted in how their national team perfoms - If either Wales or England win then the other with this deep rooted angst feels violated and a lesser person. This then manifests itself with purile posts of ridicule to try and balance the fragile psyche. Conversley a win causes the weak individial to temprarily like their foe in a rather superior and patronising sort of way.

My advice to these poorly afflicted individuals is to try some classic Freudian reaction-formation techniques and/or read or keep a copy of Kiplings "If" handy - Genuinely it will help with the inner angst and make you a far nicer person all round. Simples really

Rubyguby, on the basis of that objective and forthright analysis, I have fired my therapist, can I see you next monday?

by gregortree Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:25 pm

England Glory,
you may relax now. Ruby & I just enjoying a spot of Anglo Welsh banter about him living in England etc etc. Just banter.

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:27 pm

HERSH wrote:Do we argue?

I'm disappointed none of you responded to my Strictly suggestion Sad

by englandglory4ever Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:31 pm

"The only thing it illustrates my friend is that you are driven by emotion and in doing so you miss the satire that Gregor enjoys. You are blinding yourself which is a great shame. Shame really - enjoy the rugby "

Don't try this patronisation thing guby. personal attack removed

But you've already done that by outing you Welsh inferiority for all to see.

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:34 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:"The only thing it illustrates my friend is that you are driven by emotion and in doing so you miss the satire that Gregor enjoys. You are blinding yourself which is a great shame. Shame really - enjoy the rugby "

Don't try this patronisation thing guby. personal attack removed

But you've already done that by outing you Welsh inferiority for all to see.

And he keeps digging. Lighten up my friend you'd enjoy it much better - you are just providing the ammunition and Im firing them back as blanks so as not to hurt you - Come and join me and Gregor in friendly debate, sometimes we even diagree but that's life - you are missing out on so much. thumbsup

by RubyGuby Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:35 pm

Biltong wrote:
RubyGuby wrote:Lets cut to the chase lads and acting in my old 606 name the real cause of this is that deep down these peoples from both nations have great inferiority complexes and much of how they feel deep within their psyche is rooted in how their national team perfoms - If either Wales or England win then the other with this deep rooted angst feels violated and a lesser person. This then manifests itself with purile posts of ridicule to try and balance the fragile psyche. Conversley a win causes the weak individial to temprarily like their foe in a rather superior and patronising sort of way.

My advice to these poorly afflicted individuals is to try some classic Freudian reaction-formation techniques and/or read or keep a copy of Kiplings "If" handy - Genuinely it will help with the inner angst and make you a far nicer person all round. Simples really
Rubyguby, on the basis of that objective and forthright analysis, I have fired my therapist, can I see you next monday?

If only you knew what my day job was Bilt - do you? Hug

by offload Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:36 pm

Lot's of talk on here about the inferiority complex but it's the superiority complex that's the root cause.
Wink

by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:36 pm

englandglory4ever wrote:"The only thing it illustrates my friend is that you are driven by emotion and in doing so you miss the satire that Gregor enjoys. You are blinding yourself which is a great shame. Shame really - enjoy the rugby "

Don't try this patronisation thing guby. <personal attack removed>

But you've already done that by outing you Welsh inferiority for all to see.

Speaking of being patronising ...

Pots and kettles.

And leave out the personal BS.

by gregortree Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:38 pm

Kiwi
We really need Strictly judges to vote on the AB Haka.

Orchestra drumroll

Craig:

Antonioni: warning

Len:

Darcy:

by englandglory4ever Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:39 pm

Guby. I find it very difficult to converse with snearing individuals too nasty to say what they really think. I'll lighten up when I want to. But for you sir I'll especially reserve my most vitriolic self so don't try the patronisation thing again please..

by RogerLewis Mon 19 Nov 2012, 4:41 pm

HERSH wrote:Do we argue?

I expected this to be a rare article where you had little or zero input.

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