New Zealand v England, Dunedin, 1st Test Thread

[Duty281]

First topic message reminder :

The three-test series starts at 21:30 GMT tonight. New Zealand are coming into this series very much as the outsiders, after being trounced in South Africa, although they did manage a surprise 1-1 series draw in Sri Lanka not too long ago. England, fresh off a historic series win in India, are very much the favourites and this is the start of a gruelling 15 Tests in the next 10 months against Australasian opposition, in a double Ashes year.

Expected Teams (Cricinfo):

New Zealand 1 Peter Fulton, 2 Hamish Rutherford, 3 Kane Williamson, 4 Ross Taylor, 5 Dean Brownlie, 6 Brendon McCullum (capt), 7 BJ Watling (wk), 8 Tim Southee, 9 Bruce Martin/Ian Butler, 10 Neil Wagner, 11 Trent Boult

England (probable) 1 Alastair Cook (capt), 2 Nick Compton, 3 Jonathan Trott, 4 Kevin Pietersen, 5 Ian Bell, 6 Joe Root, 7 Matt Prior (wk), 8 Stuart Broad, 9 Graeme Swann, 10 James Anderson, 11 Steven Finn

[Guest]

we shouldn't declare at all today....McCullum will promote himself and smash quickfire runs......

bat the day and go to the 2nd test

[guildfordbat]

Yeah i suppose but I feel that Sometimes I would rather go down and lose fighting over a stale boring draw!

Thats me offcourse. I am a big england fan. But more of a cricket fan tbh..

Mysti - you actually have a lot more in common with Sir Garfield Sobers than you realise. Have a butcher's at his write up on the GOAT thread (Last 16 Group 4) and Tony Greig's comments in particular.

[Duty281]

Safety nearly reached. Cook and Compton batted perfectly for the occasion, frustrated and accumulated in equal measure. They have led England out of the wilderness. Great to see Cook score yet another ton, but it was even better to see Compton get his first. Keep him there for the Ashes, I hope.

Barring a collapse, it'll be 0-0 at close of play tomorrow. Finn should just aim to frustrate, it'll be great if he can last another half-hour, Compton just needs to plough on. Just have to bat around 5 hours for sanctuary to be reached, and like Lloyd said on Sky last night, New Zealand will be knackered for the next Test which is just around the corner. It will be a draw for England, but it'll feel like a bloody great victory!

[guildfordbat]

It will be a draw for England, but it'll feel like a bloody great victory!

Assuming things go to plan, that's a very good point. Even though New Zealand have held the upper hand throughout this Test, it will be England who'll feel on the up.

[Peter Seabiscuit Wheeler]

It will be a draw for England, but it'll feel like a bloody great victory!

Assuming things go to plan, that's a very good point. Even though New Zealand have held the upper hand throughout this Test, it will be England who'll feel on the up.

...unless England continue tomorrow as they left off and then take enough wickets to show that with an extra day they could actually have won the game. In which case it will feel frustrating.

Simple fact is though that NZ should never have let them back into this game. They wont often be given such a small first innings tiotal to chase on a dead wicket. Had the referal on Compton been given then the scoreboard pressure may well have done its work, and we'd be looking at a very different game.

No doubt the momentum is with England, and given the state they were in after day 3, the "moral victory" is arguably theirs....but its not a game I can feel happy about. Relieved, not happy.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

The moral victory won't be with England. You can't have a moral victory saving a test. The one who had the upper hand claims the moral victory. If they do draw then England will be relieved that they weren't embarrassed. But NZ were the ones that put pressure on England not the other way around. England fought back to save the game but they were never in the ascendancy in any part of this test match. Not in terms of the circumstances of the match. No one believed that would be the case going into this first test. The fightback was good from England but claiming a moral victory is taking it too far. NZ are the ones to be taken by England. Let's not fool ourselves. We're rubbish at test cricket. England were embarrassed in those first two days. You got out of jail and NZ might not have another golden opportunity like that again for the rest of the series but England were made to look foolish for two days. No way that's a moral victory.

England will apply themselves more in the second test and won't take NZ lightly. But NZ will take a great deal of confidence from this first test and know that if they can get through the top order of England, there is a degree of fragility about their batting. Of course the same applies to NZ and much more so but psychologically it's significant to know that your opponents have weaknesses to be exploited. I'm always the first one to dismiss our test performances but I for one will be intrigued as to how the Black Caps will play in the second test. That said, this test match still has life in it yet, even though England took any likelihood of a result away from NZ yesterday.

[mystiroakey]

Yeah i suppose but I feel that Sometimes I would rather go down and lose fighting over a stale boring draw!

Thats me offcourse. I am a big england fan. But more of a cricket fan tbh..

Mysti - you actually have a lot more in common with Sir Garfield Sobers than you realise. Have a butcher's at his write up on the GOAT thread (Last 16 Group 4) and Tony Greig's comments in particular.

Will do.

[mystiroakey]

Kia in the long run yes your right nz can take the positive. However in the short term it could knock confidence.. If England bat another 60 without loss. Nz are only 1 wicket up on the same score. That's an even game

[kiakahaaotearoa]

With an innings in hand. England are just doing what NZ did in their only innings. On a pitch with no demons I don't think that will prove psychologically damaging. Physically draining perhaps because they're in the field potentially for one another day but mentally NZ would only be ruing their chances if there were a number of clear chances they missed. That's not the case. England did well to apply themselves and not lose wickets. On a pitch like that, it wasn't that much of a stretch. Which puts England's first innings into perspective. That's the innings NZ will be focusing on and naturally England will be focusing on their second innings. Hardly a moral victory.

[mystiroakey]

There is no moral victory to be had. Nz need to try and take positives from the first day and forget the rest. England won't need any positives because first innings first test it's par for the course.

They need to just seriously deal with this issue next test series . That is our issue..

I don't want to diminish nz's performance though.. The new lad is awesome and out did some very good bowlers day 2.

[kiakahaaotearoa]

I agree. My moral victory remarks are not aimed at you. Just referring to your fellow countrymen's comments on who takes honours from this test. A draw is a draw but sometimes a side can feel lucky to have escaped and a side can feel cheated that they didn't get a result. In my view, neither of those scenarios occurred the way the test match panned out. So trying to say England have the upper hand in the second test is going too far.

England do have the upper hand in that they are a superior side. But cricket can be a great leveller in that certain circumstances can bring out moments in a side where they have little to do with your side's ability. NZ go into the 2nd test again as underdogs but they will take confidence that they are capable of at least competing. England will know that if they don't go in with the right attitude they will risk being found out.

[mystiroakey]

Well nz need one match winner. Then you have a chance at winning the odd test v top opposition.

If this had been a full Non interrupted test. Your new guy could have been the difference.

Off course nz still have a chance at the win but that is going to take an amazing match winning performance from a bowler. I am not sure they have the minerals just yet. But we will see

[kiakahaaotearoa]

I'm not sure either. It was pleasing to see Rutherford's performance. Fulton's job of a grafter can be made a whole lot easier if his partner at the other end takes the pressure off by scoring runs and more importantly not losing his wicket. The middle order can similarly play with more freedom at quickening the pace if they have a cushion of runs already on the board. Too often the top order fails and they are asked to scrap some runs together.

Our bowling is lightweight. We need a real strike bowler and unfortunately we don't have one. There are too many journeyman bowlers who lack pace and can't extract swing or bounce from the pitch. We also don't have enough bowlers who are disciplined enough to limit scoring from both ends in order to apply pressure. So we will always struggle to bowl out sides cheaply in both innings unless the conditions or the pitch make batting a lottery.

Time can sometimes be a twelfth man and if we had a day and a half more in England's second innings, the game would take on a different light. We only have one more day as it stands and a result seems highly unlikely. There is still much to play for. Getting wickets will have a psychological effect for the second test just as occupying the crease for England's top order. There's always something to play for within the context of a draw. Individual battles are not quite the same though as overall team honours.

[Duty281]

New Zealand, at the start of Day 4 yesterday, would have been eyeing up victory. Their best chance, surely, of victory. Come the close of Day 4, the door has been shut in their face. Victory looks to have been taken away, perhaps their best chance of the entire series too, with England looking under-prepared. They may now be a deflated and tired outfit. Contrast that with England, delight at seeing their skipper get a 24th ton, perhaps even more delighted seeing Compton get his first Test ton. Not to mention, extremely delighted at probably saving this Test. That's why it's a moral victory for England, that's why their heads will be higher than New Zealand come the second test.

[Makrish]

Tonight, surely, Finn for a maiden test century?

[kiakahaaotearoa]

They may now be a deflated and tired outfit. They may not be. NZ too has many reasons to hold their heads up high. Their debutant opener scored over a 150, they scored a big total and may well only have to bat once in the test, they made England bat twice and put the fear of God into them the first two days. I think you're selectively taking bits of this test match and claiming a moral victory because you had such a shocking first day. Your last statement just doesn't wash with me given how the events of this test match panned out.

[VTR]

I take all yesterday's negativity back. We are England, we know not the meaning of the word defeat. We are the number one side in the world (if you exclude South Africa) and showing our true class now. Go Team England!

[hodge]

Tonight, surely, Finn for a maiden test century?

Nah he'll beat Gillespie's score while night watchmen

[GSC]

The problem for NZ is that England regularly do this, then come back all guns blazing for the 2nd test. Missed a big chance here.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Just what Compton needed to hopefully kickstart his international career. Good innings.

Hopefully the rest can follow and we can see out the day

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Wagner strikes. Götterdämmerung

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Finn passes his previous highest test score

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Finny looks like he's done some work with the bat! Actually playing some half decent shots haha

[alfie]

300 up.

Finn playing some frisky little shots now...he'll be fancying himself as a batsman soon if this keeps up

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Starting to get a bit carried a way though

[gboycottnut]

300 up.

Finn playing some frisky little shots now...he'll be fancying himself as a batsman soon if this keeps up

Looks like Finn wants to become the new Tony Greig of English cricket! A tall 6ft 7 all-rounder who can bat as well as bowl!

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Finn has faced 101 balls so far....

[Makrish]

Just checked the scorecard - what the hell is happening? How did Finn get onto 41?!

[alfie]

Been another pretty good session for England. Only Compton gone and thirty odd ahead so unless something happens in the next five minutes lunch will be a relaxed affair...

Pitch really isn't designed with bowlers in mind is it ?

[Corporalhumblebucket]

Anderson can probably take off his pads. We won't be needing a lunch watchman...

[alfie]

Anderson can probably take off his pads. We won't be needing a lunch watchman...

Can probably change into his civvies ... Shouldn't be needing a number ten at all today...

[trebellbobaggins]

I'm sure they won't relax yet. Much time and hard work needed yet.

[mystiroakey]

It would be nice if our top 3 and no. 11 can all get 100's

Now that would be a first!

[trebellbobaggins]

It sure would.

[Makrish]

Hate to burst your bubble, but Finny's our number 9. Believe it or not.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Monty can do it though Makrish. Monty can do anything. What a man

[mystiroakey]

same difference.

and only because of monty(lack of swan) and anderson is normally ahead.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Is this a valid point?

The longer Finn stays out there, the more it devalues Compton's hundred?

[hodge]

Finny

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Fifty for Finny, he's playing like an established batsman!!

20 in the 1st innings as well, we've unearthed the next Botham

[mystiroakey]

OH DEAR lol.. Finn outlasts Trott.

I am not sure who should be more embarrased ,Trott or the kiwi attack!

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Good caught and bowled by Wagner, Trott goes.

Finny still showing em how its done

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

KP needs to have some hours out here in the middle, he is looking very very out of touch

[alfie]

Finn holding the innings together , eh

Probably never batted this long in his life , at any level. Not going to move him up in front of Broad on the strength of this one yet though...

Tea with six wickets left and a lead of 89 . Kiwi bowlers looking pretty weary and most of the crowd are asleep

[alfie]

Seems everyone went to sleep !

Nice safe draw, but England will want to be a lot more switched on in Wellington .
Good to see Compton getting a hundred (Cook we expect to get one every other innings ) and Finn did a great night watchman job. NZ rather made a mockery of the idea that they are a second class team who shouldn't be playing Tests - Rutherford has made a start his dad would have loved to have and the unheralded seam bowlers did a good job. Martin played the Vettori role pretty well too...

Still fancy England for the series but they now know they have to do a lot more than just turn up to win.

[Guest]

Steven Finn take a bow!!!!!!!!

[Duty281]

Solid by England. Never looked like facing defeat. What an innings by Finn, 72 minutes without a run at one point! Roll on the second test, and roll on a better wicket.

[trebellbobaggins]

That showed great spirit and helped to get the series off to a nice competitive start.

Well play Finn. Serious mental strength shown there.

[msp83]

So England managed a draw at last. Nice little contribution from Finn with the bat besides the efforts of Cook, Compton and Trott.
New Zealand tried hard, but there was nothing for the bowlers on a last day pitch and England batted really well in the 2nd innings.
New Zealand can take heart from this performance for the next match. Braceswll should be back as well. Think Wagner, despite his impresive first innings show, will have to gave way.
As for England, they should know they did underperform in the first innings with the bat. And the other concern is that KP seems to be under an injury cloud, a problem with the right knee. Don't know about the extend of the injury at this stage.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Be harsh if Wagner is dropped imo, bowled really well in both innings.

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