Worst player of the 6 nations so far

There are a few quite obvious candidates:

Michelak had a brilliant AI campaign and everyone on 606v2 thought Lazarus was back from the dead. Didnt fool me though, he is a limited player. He even managed to fool the antipodeans into thinking he was world class.

Chris Ashton. Scored v Scotland but has been very weak since both in defense and attack. Probably wont be a Lion at this rate. Still more famous for his try celebrations than his all round game.

Sam Warburton has been way off his usual stellar form, so much so he lost the captaincy. Has turned it round though proving his character and that he isnt just a flash in the pan. Still he will be disapointed with his form.


France: Michelak
England: Ashsplash
Ireland: Declan Kidney. Sorry couldnt resist.
Italy:Giovanbattista Venditti. Anonymous throughout.
Wales: Warburton.
Scotland:Sean Lamont. Hamilton comes close.

For me the prize goes to Freddy. He has singlehandedly relegated a decent France team to the bottom of the pile.

Who do you think has been the worst player? Feel free to agree, disagree, write a poem, discuss the apointment of the first Jewish pope or vent etc.

GunsGerms wrote:There are a few quite obvious candidates:

Michelak had a brilliant AI campaign and everyone on 606v2 thought Lazarus was back from the dead. Didnt fool me though, he is a limited player. He even managed to fool the antipodeans into thinking he was world class.

Chris Ashton. Scored v Scotland but has been very weak since both in defense and attack. Probably wont be a Lion at this rate.

Sam Warburton has been way off his usual stellar form, so much so he lost the captaincy. Has turned it round though proving his character and that he isnt just a flash in the pan. Still he will be disapointed with his form.


France: Michelak
England: Ashsplash
Ireland: Declan Kidney. Sorry couldnt resist.
Italy:Giovanbattista Venditti. Anonymous throughout.
Wales: Warburton.
Scotland:Sean Lamont. Hamilton comes close.

For me the prize goes to Freddy. He has singlehandedly relegated a decent France team to the bottom of the pile.Who do you think has been the worst player? Feel free to agree, disagree, write a poem or vent etc.

Special mention for an assist by PSA

Shingler was completely outplayed in his cameo against Ireland.

Venditti has been ok, against England he was good!!

Warburton hasn't been that bad either.

For me Michalak has been dreadfull, as was ROG!!!

Jenkins was Dire first game up as was Cuthbert, but both have got stronger since.

Lamonts been a waste of time as per.

Ashton seems to be getting weaker every game I see him, and Wood is half the player he is at 8.

Lo Cicero has been having some really poor performances too, very good player but looking vulnerable.

Huget had a big game v England but was useless until then.

I'd still go with Michalak or ROG though!

thebluesmancometh wrote:Venditti has been ok, against England he was good!!

Warburton hasn't been that bad either.

For me Michalak has been dreadfull, as was ROG!!!

Jenkins was Dire first game up as was Cuthbert, but both have got stronger since.

Lamonts been a waste of time as per.

Ashton seems to be getting weaker every game I see him, and Wood is half the player he is at 8.

Lo Cicero has been having some really poor performances too, very good player but looking vulnerable.

Huget had a big game v England but was useless until then.

I'd still go with Michalak or ROG though!

ROG has only played around half a match though. Tried to pick regulars.

Think Warburton deserved a mention for getting dropped as captain after his sub par match v Ireland. He has at least improved though.

Problem is if they have played that badly they are usually replaced.- Michalak is the glaring exception. You really need to do this for individual performances.

Hamilton for his stupid penalty against wales just before the half. Momentum shifted with that - and its was so stupid.

Its the biggest brainfart I have seen this 6N

TJ wrote:Hamilton for his stupid penalty against wales just before the half. Momentum shifted with that - and its was so stupid.

Its the biggest brainfart I have seen this 6N

Ye I'd put it on par with the ROG cross kcik, the French out wide v Wales and the English backs v Italy. Those 4 incidents do not reflect well on this year competition!

Oh and any sort of Welsh defencive effort in the first 40 minutes!!!

The two England moments I guess would be the 'clearance' kick from Care, and the non throw ins from Tom Youngs. Says a lot about the rest of his game that Youngs has got away with it.

Not sure what your on about with Venditti, he was immense against the english making 48 metres and bouncing off tacklers willy nilly. Warburton was awesome in his last game did he get MOM ? and Hamilton had one shocker but has put in great performances since.

For me its the flyhalfs that have been letting the side down, Biggar had a bad first game but has comeback well, the Italy fly half has been sublime to awful. the new irish flyhalf had a total shocker on his debut only surpassed by ROG on his last ever appearance. Flood didn't look too clever on his return, and scotland are chopping and changing as always.

I believe Michalak is a world class player on dry hard pitches with quick flowing rugby as he demonstrated at sharks and over the summer. However He is not a good flyhalf in shoddy NH conditions and has been abysmal this tournament and hasn't been helped when machenaud is inside him. So for me Michalak is by far the worst, and he has still been selected !!!!

lostinwales wrote:The two England moments I guess would be the 'clearance' kick from Care, and the non throw ins from Tom Youngs. Says a lot about the rest of his game that Youngs has got away with it.

Youngs definaelty had about 20 minutes in one game where his timing was off then was replaced...otherwise in all his other games he has been dominant in all facets of hooking....pocket battleship.

sirtidychris wrote:Not sure what your on about with Venditti, he was immense against the english making 48 metres and bouncing off tacklers willy nilly.

He was Italy's worst player in every other game. Its not all about England.

GunsGerms wrote:

sirtidychris wrote:Not sure what your on about with Venditti, he was immense against the english making 48 metres and bouncing off tacklers willy nilly.

He was Italy's worst player in every other game. Its not all about England.

From here it pretty much is for me

Warburton has only started 2 games and was named Man of the Match in one of those. Including him here is a bit harsh. Even off form he's definitely not Wales' worst player.

Depends what we're talking about here, worst relative to their own standards or just downright worst?

If we're going relative to themselves then I'd agree with Ashton for England since he hasn't been on great form (not all his fault, game plan hasn't helped) but in absolute terms he is still a better player than plenty of others. I think Flood is fairly poor at international level, is say he's the worst player in England's 23.

sirtidychris wrote: Warburton was awesome in his last game did he get MOM ? and Hamilton had one shocker but has put in great performances since.

Warburton as already explained was very poor v Ireland and lost the Wales captaincy as a result. Agreed though, he has improved.

Hamilton was very poor both v England and v France. He looked good v Ireland only because Ireland's lineout faultered quite badly.

There was a poll on v02 last autumn just before the AIs about (effectively) most valuable player of each of T1 country.

I chose Michalak for France and was happy to see his contribution in the AIs.

But he has been truly appalling this 6Ns.

Just saying with vendiitti can you be considered a worst player in the tournament when in your last game you produced a performance that got you into most peoples team of the week, away from home, against hands down the best international team in a generation

sirtidychris wrote:Just saying with vendiitti can you be considered a worst player in the tournament when in your last game you produced a performance that got you into most peoples team of the week, away from home, against hands down the best international team in a generation

And if you compare Venditti's performances to lets say...

Ashton - V has been better IMHO

Fofana (on wing) - Again I'd plump for V

Brown - Close run race

Cuthbert - Again close

Buenvenutti - I'd go for B just!!

His performances have been on par with many other wingers, and IMHO better than some in at least one game. It's not been a tournament for wingers, but the Italian pair have been as good as any IMHO!!!

sirtidychris wrote:Just saying with vendiitti can you be considered a worst player in the tournament when in your last game you produced a performance that got you into most peoples team of the week, away from home, against hands down the best team international team in a generation

It was only England. They're not that good. He was up against some of the weakest performing wingers in the 6N in the English wingers. Most players have had some good, some bad games. Vendiitti has been mostly bad. He was due a good game.

GunsGerms wrote:

sirtidychris wrote:Just saying with vendiitti can you be considered a worst player in the tournament when in your last game you produced a performance that got you into most peoples team of the week, away from home, against hands down the best team international team in a generation

It was only England. They're not that good. He was up against some of the weakest performing wingers in the 6N in the English wingers. Most players have had some good, some bad games. Vendiitti has been mostly bad. He was due a good game.

So surely if he's been poor but outplayed the 2 weakest wingers then they deserve to be below him and on the list instead?

thebluesmancometh wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

sirtidychris wrote:Just saying with vendiitti can you be considered a worst player in the tournament when in your last game you produced a performance that got you into most peoples team of the week, away from home, against hands down the best team international team in a generation

It was only England. They're not that good. He was up against some of the weakest performing wingers in the 6N in the English wingers. Most players have had some good, some bad games. Vendiitti has been mostly bad. He was due a good game.

So surely if he's been poor but outplayed the 2 weakest wingers then they deserve to be below him and on the list instead?

I highlighted Ashton in my article. I chose one player per team. For me Vendiitti has been Italy's worst performer. Feel free to point out who has been consistently worst for Italy.

Glas a du wrote:Shingler was completely outplayed in his cameo against Ireland.

He was injured early on so i guess we have to be a little lenient with him on that performance.

Yeah Michelak has been horrendous. He's not only made lots of blunders, but looked very lazy during some games, especially vs Wales.

Venditti had a cracking game vs England, don't think he deserves to be mentioned.

Hamilton has had a few idiotic moments, but he played very well vs Italy and Ireland, where he won MOM. Think its a bit harsh to include a MOM winner as worst player. And Lamont is just being played out of position, but he has been a bit absent.

GunsGerms wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

sirtidychris wrote:Just saying with vendiitti can you be considered a worst player in the tournament when in your last game you produced a performance that got you into most peoples team of the week, away from home, against hands down the best team international team in a generation

It was only England. They're not that good. He was up against some of the weakest performing wingers in the 6N in the English wingers. Most players have had some good, some bad games. Vendiitti has been mostly bad. He was due a good game.

So surely if he's been poor but outplayed the 2 weakest wingers then they deserve to be below him and on the list instead?

I highlighted Ashton in my article. I chose one player per team. For me Vendiitti has been Italy's worst performer. Feel free to point out who has been consistently worst for Italy.

Lo Cicero and Castro have struggled this year, normally they are rocks but they have proved liabilities!!Orquera has been pathetic at times, Gori has also been average at best.

Of the 6N I'd say the Italian wings have looked as good as Ive ever seen Italian wings, and both totally outplaying their English counterparts, and regularly not being weaknesses of Italy means they are going well.

If I had to list my wings in order the Italian pair would be far from the bottom!!!

thebluesmancometh wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

sirtidychris wrote:Just saying with vendiitti can you be considered a worst player in the tournament when in your last game you produced a performance that got you into most peoples team of the week, away from home, against hands down the best team international team in a generation

It was only England. They're not that good. He was up against some of the weakest performing wingers in the 6N in the English wingers. Most players have had some good, some bad games. Vendiitti has been mostly bad. He was due a good game.

So surely if he's been poor but outplayed the 2 weakest wingers then they deserve to be below him and on the list instead?

I highlighted Ashton in my article. I chose one player per team. For me Vendiitti has been Italy's worst performer. Feel free to point out who has been consistently worst for Italy.

Lo Cicero and Castro have struggled this year, normally they are rocks but they have proved liabilities!!Orquera has been pathetic at times, Gori has also been average at best.

Of the 6N I'd say the Italian wings have looked as good as Ive ever seen Italian wings, and both totally outplaying their English counterparts, and regularly not being weaknesses of Italy means they are going well.

If I had to list my wings in order the Italian pair would be far from the bottom!!!

Orquera was outstanding v France and was very decent v England. Yes he was poor v Scotland and Wales but overall he has been one of the better OHs this tournament.

Vendiitti has had three sub par games and one really good game hence his inclusion.

TJ wrote:Hamilton for his stupid penalty against wales just before the half. Momentum shifted with that - and its was so stupid.

Its the biggest brainfart I have seen this 6N

Said it before and I will say it again. The ref was already playing a penalty advantage for someone else being offside.

If you're picking Declan Kidney for Ireland then the actual weakest performer has to be st andre. His selection has been bizarre at best...

tigertattie wrote:

TJ wrote:Hamilton for his stupid penalty against wales just before the half. Momentum shifted with that - and its was so stupid.

Its the biggest brainfart I have seen this 6N

Said it before and I will say it again. The ref was already playing a penalty advantage for someone else being offside.

That is alright then. It was smart play

mckay1402 wrote:If you're picking Declan Kidney for Ireland then the actual weakest performer has to be st andre. His selection has been bizarre at best...

Fair point.

it's bizarre: you'd probably say France's best half of rugby was the first half against England (they produced a good last 20 against Ireland, but Ireland were also guilty of dipping badly). Trinh-Duc was playing against England, France got much much worse when he came off, and inexplicably PSA picked Michalak ahead of him for Ireland (where he was once more somewhere between anonymous and awful). Michalak wins this one hands down for me. Ashton has had some poor moments but has done some good stuff as well. Wales is hard to choose as most have performed decently at different times, JD2 has been a bit disappointing for me but doesn't really deserve a mention here. For Ireland, most of them have been poor since the first 45 minutes of the Wales match. The Scotland centres have disappointed me, expected more from Scott in particular.

GunsGerms wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

sirtidychris wrote:Just saying with vendiitti can you be considered a worst player in the tournament when in your last game you produced a performance that got you into most peoples team of the week, away from home, against hands down the best team international team in a generation

It was only England. They're not that good. He was up against some of the weakest performing wingers in the 6N in the English wingers. Most players have had some good, some bad games. Vendiitti has been mostly bad. He was due a good game.

So surely if he's been poor but outplayed the 2 weakest wingers then they deserve to be below him and on the list instead?

I highlighted Ashton in my article. I chose one player per team. For me Vendiitti has been Italy's worst performer. Feel free to point out who has been consistently worst for Italy.

Lo Cicero and Castro have struggled this year, normally they are rocks but they have proved liabilities!!Orquera has been pathetic at times, Gori has also been average at best.

Of the 6N I'd say the Italian wings have looked as good as Ive ever seen Italian wings, and both totally outplaying their English counterparts, and regularly not being weaknesses of Italy means they are going well.

If I had to list my wings in order the Italian pair would be far from the bottom!!!

Orquera was outstanding v France and was very decent v England. Yes he was poor v Scotland and Wales but overall he has been one of the better OHs this tournament.

Vendiitti has had three sub par games and one really good game hence his inclusion.

Orquera didn't play against Wales. Kris Burton was at 10, and in his own way was as hopeless as Orquera was against Scotland. Whenever Italy got into the Wales 22, Burton's decision making resulted in Italy going backwards.

Michalak has been pretty bad though.

Yeah didn't want to say anything as he is such a legend but castro has been one of the worst TH's in the tournament Cole, Jones, Ross, Mas have all been better and it looks like he's on the slide and Lo Cicero, got royally demolished in style....i guess theres a point after all contact/neck and shoulder injuries when world class props just dont have that explosive power anymore, like when former world beater vicks struggled with the beast. Saying that Carl hayman and Julian white never suffered but i suppose they retired from intenationals earlier than perhpas they should and are arguably the best scrummaging tightheads ever (arguably )

While it will be hard to beat Freddie, Heaslip has disappointed me so far. This should have been a chance to cement a Lions starting place and he has looked very off the pace I think, especially in the wet games where you would be looking for your number 8 to pull you through.

I can't believe that Goode hasn't walked away with this. He is the worst fullback I think I have ever seen. He has no pace and his comical efforts as the last line of defece seem to combine the lethal combination of poor technique and cowardace.

He is truly awful. If George gets a clear run at him he will need a change of shorts pretty sharpish unless they fit him with a pampers super large.

dragonbreath wrote:I can't believe that Goode hasn't walked away with this. He is the worst fullback I think I have ever seen. He has no pace and his comical efforts as the last line of defece seem to combine the lethal combination of poor technique and cowardace.

He is truly awful. If George gets a clear run at him he will need a change of shorts pretty sharpish unless they fit him with a pampers super large.

Kinda agree he hasnt been great but I havent heard too many people talking him up.

GunsGerms wrote:

dragonbreath wrote:I can't believe that Goode hasn't walked away with this. He is the worst fullback I think I have ever seen. He has no pace and his comical efforts as the last line of defece seem to combine the lethal combination of poor technique and cowardace.

He is truly awful. If George gets a clear run at him he will need a change of shorts pretty sharpish unless they fit him with a pampers super large.

Kinda agree he hasnt been great but I havent heard too many people talking him up.

I know but quite how he has escaped an absolute slating is what puzzles me. I mean Hogg, 13.5 stone soaking wet ran right though him. Hey not complaining, if Biggar is practising a miss move that takes out both Centres we might get a chance to run at, over, and through him. George might not even have to break stride

Too true. England's back 3 are their biggest weakness. Wales are in a real position to exploit this with 1/2p,North and Cuthbert all showing decent form.

I agree Goode is a terrible counter attacking full back, in the sense that he simply cant counter attack. Would much rather see brown/ foden. To give Goode some credit he has a good boot and reads the game exceptionally well, that is hard to pick up on the t.v because flashy breaks and running stay in the memory but he is always there under the ball ensuring the opposition never gain territorial advantage from kicking it. He is a tactical selection, a safe pair of hands whereas a on form foden is a counter attacking demon offering a threat in his own right and creating space for spashdown to run into.

MOTM Warburton?

GunsGerms wrote:Too true. England's back 3 are their biggest weakness. Wales are in a real position to exploit this with 1/2p,North and Cuthbert all showing decent form.

Nonsense

Cuthbert has been poor - In attack but especially in defense!

North has done bugger all

1/2p has been urine poor in attack - Excellent at kicking and defense, but in attack, woeful!

I do find it amusing that the wingers we were all taking about before the 6N as lions contenders have all done very little. Cuthbert, Visser, North, Maitland, Ashton.

Lions back 3 could be Hogg, 1/2p and foden :-)

tigertattie wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Too true. England's back 3 are their biggest weakness. Wales are in a real position to exploit this with 1/2p,North and Cuthbert all showing decent form.

Nonsense

Cuthbert has been poor - In attack but especially in defense!

North has done bugger all

1/2p has been urine poor in attack - Excellent at kicking and defense, but in attack, woeful!

The Wales back three has scored 4 tries. Thats almost as many as the whole England team put together. The England back three have 1 try from Ashsplash in their try fest v Scotland in which they scored four of their 5 tries in this years tournament.

Cuthbert is joint top scorer with two tries.

North did very well v France in Paris and is a much better player than any of the England wingers.

Cant really say 1/2p is woeful in attack when he doesnt attack much.

I think its pretty obvious Wales have a much better back three.

GunsGerms wrote:

tigertattie wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Too true. England's back 3 are their biggest weakness. Wales are in a real position to exploit this with 1/2p,North and Cuthbert all showing decent form.

Nonsense

Cuthbert has been poor - In attack but especially in defense!

North has done bugger all

1/2p has been urine poor in attack - Excellent at kicking and defense, but in attack, woeful!

The Wales back three has scored 4 tries. Thats almost as many as the whole England team put together. The England back three have 1 try from Ashsplash in their try fest v Scotland in which they scored four of their 5 tries in this years tournament.

Cuthbert is joint top scorer with two tries.

North did very well v France in Paris and is a much better player than any of the England wingers.

Cant really say 1/2p is woeful in attack when he doesnt attack much.

I think its pretty obvious Wales have a much better back three.

Wales back three have suffered from the Wales tactics with Biggar passing very few times.

North scored the winning try against France beating two defenders (around one and through the other), he also made the break (from halfway) that led to the only try in the Wales v Scotland. If you look at oportunities revived and oportunities converted North has been pretty spectacular the last 3 games.

ashton and michalak are fighting for this one

Same as most of the above, its between Ashton and Michalak. Heaslip has also been incredibly poor for me.

TJ wrote:I do find it amusing that the wingers we were all taking about before the 6N as lions contenders have all done very little. Cuthbert, Visser, North, Maitland, Ashton.

Lions back 3 could be Hogg, 1/2p and foden :-)

Could it possibly be that all the wingers have done badly because the conditions have been so royally poor ? Try playing, quick passing, free flowing rugby when its absolulty hammering it down and freezing like it has been most games (have you seen the close ups on all the pitches after the first scrum !). The wingers never get any space and very little ball !

thebluesmancometh wrote:
Ashton seems to be getting weaker every game I see him, and Wood is half the player he is at 8.

It's not so much that Wood has been playing worse at 8 - I actually thought he was fantastic against France - more that the team as a whole have been missing someone with Morgan's carrying ability. The fact that the back row is unbalanced doesn't mean Wood has been playing poorly.

thomh wrote:

thebluesmancometh wrote:
Ashton seems to be getting weaker every game I see him, and Wood is half the player he is at 8.

It's not so much that Wood has been playing worse at 8 - I actually thought he was fantastic against France - more that the team as a whole have been missing someone with Morgan's carrying ability. The fact that the back row is unbalanced doesn't mean Wood has been playing poorly.

And for that very reason, much as i do not like the guy, i would have picked Haskell

For me, though it saddens it to say it, but since the France game Castro has been really poor for Italy.