Fullback choices for the Lions tour to Australia

by maestegmafia Mon 01 Apr 2013, 8:37 pm

by reallybored Wed 03 Apr 2013, 6:45 pm

Welshboii just accept the fact that Hogg is a far more exciting player to watch.

by welshboii15 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 6:49 pm

IV not once said he's not exciting to watch I just don't accept he's as good as halfpenny. Id rather a player that's boring but does very little wrong rather than a player that's exciting but does more wrong than the other

by bazalicous Wed 03 Apr 2013, 6:56 pm

When on top form Kearney is best FB in world.
However currently he's behind halfpenny and hogg in the Lions stakes, but bring him to Oz and he'll prove he can be the best.

by welshboii15 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 6:58 pm

I like Kearney and Byrne they used bring some of the best head to head competitions under them high balls

by Guest Wed 03 Apr 2013, 6:59 pm

IanBru wrote:
Tattie Scones RRN wrote:Or is it that anybody who isn't Welsh is not worthy of a place?
You've got it in one, Tattie.

Whether consciously or unconsciously, some Welsh supporters (thankfully not all, nor even the majority) will assume, regardless of evidence that contradicts their view, that Welsh players are by their very nature better than players from other countries. That Scrumdown nut job springs to mind.

Personally, I blame Scrum V for most of this. If it doesn't involve Wales, no one is interested. I said the same thing in criticising ITV's coverage at the World Cup (though referring to England in that case), and the same rings true here. They assume that if you support Wales or Welsh regions, you won't care two hoots about what the other teams are doing. They assume that the Sun rises and sets between Jack Cuthbert's ears (granted, something surely must be taking place there), and that the viewers believe the same. In short, Scrum V have an incredibly low opinion of their viewers, and that really bothers me.

For example, people in Wales wouldn't have had the opportunity to see highlights of the Leinster v Ulster, Glasgow v Munster or Zebre v Edinburgh clashes, despite two of these clashes being excellent games and crucial to the fortunes of the Welsh teams. But no, they didn't involve a Welsh team, so there were no highlights.

The knock-on effect of all this is that some Welsh supporters assume (for want of any contradiction from the goggle box) that Welsh players are simply God's gift. What's more insidious is that any player who threatens the apple cart by daring to be better than his Welsh counterpart (like Hogg has with Halfpenny) will be the subject of mindless attacks by the one-eyed brigade.

True rugby supporters know better, of course, but it doesn't stop a minority making idiots of themselves.

It's funny, because reading these threads all I seem to see is the Scottish fans with similar views! Hogg this, Visser that, Roddy Grant's your man, got to start Rennie, no Barclay, no Hines is a must, Laidlaw for Lions captain. We all do it. No need to throw stones.

P.s. what welsh games did Scottish TV cover to showcase Welsh rugby to the Scottish public? If the answer is 'none' then I suspect that is the reason for the above mentioned Scottish bias too - no exposure/coverage to 'open the eyes'.

P.p.s Who is Jack Cuthbert?

by reallybored Wed 03 Apr 2013, 7:17 pm

welshboii15 wrote:IV not once said he's not exciting to watch I just don't accept he's as good as halfpenny. Id rather a player that's boring but does very little wrong rather than a player that's exciting but does more wrong than the other

So has Hogg done more wrong than right in your opinion?

And by your logic, Brown ahead of Cuthbert then? And Barritt ahead of Davies?

by IanBru Wed 03 Apr 2013, 7:26 pm

Griff wrote:It's funny, because reading these threads all I seem to see is the Scottish fans with similar views! Hogg this, Visser that, Roddy Grant's your man, got to start Rennie, no Barclay, no Hines is a must, Laidlaw for Lions captain. We all do it. No need to throw stones.

P.s. what welsh games did Scottish TV cover to showcase Welsh rugby to the Scottish public? If the answer is 'none' then I suspect that is the reason for the above mentioned Scottish bias too - no exposure/coverage to 'open the eyes'.

P.p.s Who is Jack Cuthbert?

Hey Griff,
(1)I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you there - yes we're happy with a lot of our players, but I wouldn't say it's irrational, nor is it to the detriment of other countries' players. Most Scottish posters on here (myself included) have been effusive in our praise for Halfpenny - I would have him nailed on to start in the 14 shirt, with North at 11, and 12 of my Lions starting XV aren't from Scotland!

(2) STV (what we have instead of ITV up here) has a weekly program of highlights. Yes, it probably shows the Scottish teams in greater depth (i.e. longer highlights), but the final third of the program is dedicated to showing the other games. The point I was making is that if the Welsh regions' supporters don't see other teams playing very often, it's inevitable that they will think the other teams (and their players) are less good. Scrum V showed highlights of 2 games this weekend, while 6 games were scheduled (though one was postponed, of course). I don't see how a rugby program can be taken seriously when it only covers a third of the games played.

(3) Jack Cuthbert is a Scottish fullback who plays for Bath. I did mean Alex Cuthbert, but I tripped over a haggis and my palm mashed my keyboard. That's my excuse, and I'm sticking to it. There is a certain irony in me making a joke about a player's intellect, and then getting that player's name wrong... Whistle

(4) I really don't think any Scottish poster has ever said that Roddy Grant is your man. Roddy Grant is no one's man, except perhaps for Mrs Grant, who is desperately searching for another man.

by Guest Wed 03 Apr 2013, 7:45 pm

Then I did the same as you: wrong name! Ryan Grant I meant. Maybe that proves the point above covering the games here in Wales, but also maybe my point about the same for Scotland too!

In defence of Scrum V, and I'm not its biggest fan, other rugby shows do not show games from other nations e.g. Sky's rugby club. I guess your point will be that Scottish teams are in the same league, and I agree. However, scrum V does sometimes show highlights of other non Welsh games, or at least it used to. Believe it or not on occasion scrum v has failed to show Dragons highlights if they cant fit it in - what a kick in the teeth! We never get extended highlights like the other 3, unless we're playing them. Double kick in the teeth! But I agree, less talking and more highlights would be my way forward. I wouldn't want the welsh Premisership highlights cut from scrum V in place of the Scottish games mind, if time is tight, but that's another argument.

I don't agree that it makes us somehow stupid or naive to the talents in Scotland though. We know the Scottish players, don't you worry. We get BBC Alba here too, plus BBC NI (if you have sky that is), so I often watch non welsh Scottish involved games.

Back to the point though, Scottish fans are very vocal themselves just as the welsh are. The vitriol aimed at Mike Phillips, for example, just because he is breathing and playing rugby, is quite shocking! I'm sure a few on here would laugh if he died tomorrow, but maybe I'm being a bit harsh. Maybe not.

by glamorganalun Wed 03 Apr 2013, 7:48 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:Alun

There has been clips of 1/2p been run over, dummied/outpaced and out of position over the last two years...... he hasn't actually missed a tackle, but in my mind that is poor defending

Hogg has been recorded as having seven miss tackles, of which one he actually had his hand on a shoulder, covered Vissers poor defending on three occasions (similar to 1/2p covering Hooks poor defending and missing the offensive shoulder) and once Maitland, that leaves TWO that he could be on a head to head have actually lost out defensively of which one was against Fofana who is one of the best centres around, and you can see how angry Hogg was at such a poor attempt.

So where is this myth of Hogg being a poor defender

I agree 1/2 Penny was not great during the AI's after coming back from injury with little game time he kept slipping on the MS turf was frustrating but during the 6N he was by far the best FB on display. There is no question about 1/2 Penny's bravery even if his technique is questionable. I prefer 1/2Penny as a wing as he scores in tight situations and he is deceptively strong for a small winger but he is a better FB than anybody else during the 6N.

Based on what I saw in all the games in the 6N I rate the FB's as 1. 1/2 Penny, 2. Kearney and 3. Hogg. As I said, I would have like to have seen Bryne play as he is a specialist FB like Kearney.

Regarding Hogg myth, after watching the the joke tackle in the France game when Hogg had the touch line to help him, he was like a turnstyle without a gate, no myth.

by TJ1 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 7:52 pm

Griff - no one is aiming vitriol at Philips and I believe - and think IrnBrus point is - that while all fans are one eyed to some extent there is a number of welsh fans on here who exhibit this much more than others. example on this thread. Scots fans promoting Hogg whilst praising 1/2p, welsh fans slating Hogg

Halfpenny was rightfully player of the 6N. However the point is some of us believe a lions back 3 of Hogg, halfpenny and a n other( of our wingers) is stronger than a back 3 of Halfpenny and 2 of the other wings. Its about balance and strengths. other arguments / position are available and valid

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 7:55 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Thank God we never had illogical bias around when Neil Jenkins was moved to Full Back for the Lions

I believe that Neil was the first non-tackling fullback ever selected by the Lions!

by mikey_philVIII Wed 03 Apr 2013, 7:56 pm

Surprised to see the player of the tournament is not leading the votes. Hogg is a fab player though and it wouldn't be so unjust to see him in the starting team. Both need to be involved in the matchday squad though.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 7:58 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:I think that the idea of shifting the Player of the 6Nations to accommodate a very good but lesser player has ruffled a few feathers.
This illogical bias is simply juvenile.
In simplistic terms Gatland is charged with picking the team that gives him the best chance of victory.A good starting point is to pick the best player in each position and see if they can play to your choice of tactics.

Halfpenny was rightfully player of the tournament not least assisted by playing with a very good squad as much as he is a superb player. I would say of Hogg if he was FB in that Welsh setup would have the same accolade and you Welsh guys would be gushing uncontrollably and stating how much of a "naturally talented" player he is. The poll highlights that most don't regard Hogg as a "lesser" player in fact the other way around, the posters who argue with this by pulling apart a player without factual back-up is quite immature and juvenile

I think Gatland & Co (when reviewing Halfpenny v Hogg in training on the hard pitches) will see how good an attacking force Halfpenny can be and how good Hogg really is in defence and will make the correct call

I think that the poll merely indicates that more Scots have voted bolstered by folk who know nowt! Whistle

by TJ1 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 8:06 pm

There does appear a slight Scottish bias in the voting pattern. :-) Vote early and vote often!

by Guest Wed 03 Apr 2013, 8:07 pm

TJ wrote:Griff - no one is aiming vitriol at Philips and I believe - and think IrnBrus point is - that while all fans are one eyed to some extent there is a number of welsh fans on here who exhibit this much more than others. example on this thread. Scots fans promoting Hogg whilst praising 1/2p, welsh fans slating Hogg

Halfpenny was rightfully player of the 6N. However the point is some of us believe a lions back 3 of Hogg, halfpenny and a n other( of our wingers) is stronger than a back 3 of Halfpenny and 2 of the other wings. Its about balance and strengths. other arguments / position are available and valid

But not if those arguments are for 1/2p at fullback? It seems that some scots are allowed to argue for Hogg, but others are not allowed to argue for Halfpenny. Odd.

And, I've seen plenty of welsh fans praising Hogg too. A number of us have even said that 1/2p is not a great attacking weapon, although we've acknowledged that this may be due to the gameplan. No-one has bothered to answer the question about how Hogg would play under this restrictive game plan, but hey ho.

My main gripe was with Mr Bru suggesting that the welsh are in some way stupid and brainwashed by scrum v, and therefore have no clue about scottish players. That's a bit offensive.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 8:09 pm

IanBru wrote:
Griff wrote:It's funny, because reading these threads all I seem to see is the Scottish fans with similar views! Hogg this, Visser that, Roddy Grant's your man, got to start Rennie, no Barclay, no Hines is a must, Laidlaw for Lions captain. We all do it. No need to throw stones.

P.s. what welsh games did Scottish TV cover to showcase Welsh rugby to the Scottish public? If the answer is 'none' then I suspect that is the reason for the above mentioned Scottish bias too - no exposure/coverage to 'open the eyes'.

P.p.s Who is Jack Cuthbert?
Hey Griff,
(1)I'm afraid I'll have to disagree with you there - yes we're happy with a lot of our players, but I wouldn't say it's irrational, nor is it to the detriment of other countries' players. Most Scottish posters on here (myself included) have been effusive in our praise for Halfpenny - I would have him nailed on to start in the 14 shirt, with North at 11, and 12 of my Lions starting XV aren't from Scotland!.

You make my point for me.You are happy to shift the Player of the 6N's to oust a specialist wing to accommodate one of your boys at 15.Utter madness! picard

by mikey_philVIII Wed 03 Apr 2013, 8:13 pm

I think SOME of the Wales rugby supporting public are smart enough to not be brainwashed by some of Scrum V's not-so-good moments. I wish I could say all of the public, but take a look at the WRU updates on social networks where you can 'meet' plenty of dimwits. It's not good. I'm still a fan of Scrum V and I do enjoy the programme, I kinda miss the Brian Moore's Mouth challenge.

by IanBru Wed 03 Apr 2013, 8:24 pm

Griff wrote:My main gripe was with Mr Bru suggesting that the welsh are in some way stupid and brainwashed by scrum v, and therefore have no clue about scottish players. That's a bit offensive.

Whoah there buddy. I honestly didn't mean to imply that anyone was stupid - that's not how I roll. Hug

I think my point, put across very badly, was that if Scrum V only shows Welsh games, and only talks about Welsh teams and players (I can't remember the last time they discussed another Pro12 team in any depth), isn't it natural that the people who only watch Scrum V (clearly not you, to your credit) will have a skewed opinion of the relative quality and importance of Welsh players? I suppose this could be classed as 'brainwashing', but only to the extent that any program which offers selective coverage of a wider picture is brainwashing. I would argue that the BBC News has a clear liberal bias, for example, but I wouldn't start worrying about Manchurian candidates popping up everywhere!

Finally, I tried to be as clear as I could be in my original post that I saw this bitter trend exhibited in a small minority of Welsh posters on here. I suppose when I said that, but without pointing out specific posters, there was a danger that you would think I was speaking about you or all Welshmen. I really wasn't, mate.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 8:28 pm

IanBru wrote:
Griff wrote:My main gripe was with Mr Bru suggesting that the welsh are in some way stupid and brainwashed by scrum v, and therefore have no clue about scottish players. That's a bit offensive.
Whoah there buddy. I honestly didn't mean to imply that anyone was stupid - that's not how I roll.

I think my point, put across very badly, was that if Scrum V only shows Welsh games, and only talks about Welsh teams and players (I can't remember the last time they discussed another Pro12 team in any depth), isn't it natural that the people who only watch Scrum V (clearly not you, to your credit) will have a skewed opinion of the relative quality and importance of Welsh players? I suppose this could be classed as 'brainwashing', but only to the extent that any program which offers selective coverage of a wider picture is brainwashing. I would argue that the BBC News has a clear liberal bias, for example, but I wouldn't start worrying about Manchurian candidates popping up everywhere!

Finally, I tried to be as clear as I could be in my original post that I saw this bitter trend exhibited in a small minority of Welsh posters on here. I suppose when I said that, but without pointing out specific posters, there was a danger that you would think I was speaking about you or all Welshmen. I really wasn't, mate.

I can thank the Lord that our Scottish cousins have not been brainwashed;they are far too smart for that laughing

by flyhalffactory Wed 03 Apr 2013, 8:38 pm

TJ wrote:There does appear a slight Scottish bias in the voting pattern. :-) Vote early and vote often!

WHAT!!!

You can only vote once............. what are you suggesting TJ?

by Guest Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:02 pm

IanBru wrote:
Griff wrote:My main gripe was with Mr Bru suggesting that the welsh are in some way stupid and brainwashed by scrum v, and therefore have no clue about scottish players. That's a bit offensive.
Whoah there buddy. I honestly didn't mean to imply that anyone was stupid - that's not how I roll.

I think my point, put across very badly, was that if Scrum V only shows Welsh games, and only talks about Welsh teams and players (I can't remember the last time they discussed another Pro12 team in any depth), isn't it natural that the people who only watch Scrum V (clearly not you, to your credit) will have a skewed opinion of the relative quality and importance of Welsh players? I suppose this could be classed as 'brainwashing', but only to the extent that any program which offers selective coverage of a wider picture is brainwashing. I would argue that the BBC News has a clear liberal bias, for example, but I wouldn't start worrying about Manchurian candidates popping up everywhere!

Finally, I tried to be as clear as I could be in my original post that I saw this bitter trend exhibited in a small minority of Welsh posters on here. I suppose when I said that, but without pointing out specific posters, there was a danger that you would think I was speaking about you or all Welshmen. I really wasn't, mate.

IanBru, you're a good sort. That much I can tell. I was probably too hasty to jump on your comments. I've just been getting fed up of people saying 'only a minority' but then going on to say that 'Welsh fans' think this, or 'Welsh fans' do that, essentially tarring everyone as one! Apologies. There certainly are a higher number of welsh WUMs on here compared to other nations for some reason. Gives the rest of us a bad name.

However, what I do see is a lot of national bias from everyone, not just the welsh. Maybe we're not so good at making our suggestions subtly! Must improve! But I certainly don't think it's down to Scrum V. I'm a huge sports fan generally and do not need a national programme to get my info. I'm into football to a lesser extend, rugby league, cycling, cricket, american football, etc. But no scrum v equivalent for those!

I'm sure other welsh rugby fans get their info from other sources, so would be well informed about Scottish players. For a start we play you in the 6N plus 16 league games that Welsh teams are involved against Scottish teams. That's a lot of scrum v coverage right there! Plus there's Sky TV and the European coverage, rugby world magazine, the weekly rugby newspaper, and this fine thing here called the Internet! I realise you don't mean everyone, but anyone interested enough to post on a rugby forum regularly I reckon is pretty into the game and probably knows a lot of wider rugby than you may think. Could be wrong of course! Hug

by dragonbreath Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:06 pm

RubyGuby wrote:Thank God we never had illogical bias around when Neil Jenkins was moved to Full Back for the Lions

That was mad/genius take your pick. It could have gone so wrong, no pace, not a great tackler, but hey Geech knows best

by dragonbreath Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:11 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:Alun

There has been clips of 1/2p been run over, dummied/outpaced and out of position over the last two years...... he hasn't actually missed a tackle, but in my mind that is poor defending

Hogg has been recorded as having seven miss tackles, of which one he actually had his hand on a shoulder, covered Vissers poor defending on three occasions (similar to 1/2p covering Hooks poor defending and missing the offensive shoulder) and once Maitland, that leaves TWO that he could be on a head to head have actually lost out defensively of which one was against Fofana who is one of the best centres around, and you can see how angry Hogg was at such a poor attempt.

So where is this myth of Hogg being a poor defender

Anyone who has had one "oh he looks big" moment is likely to have another. Two risky IMO

by GLove39 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:25 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Alun

There has been clips of 1/2p been run over, dummied/outpaced and out of position over the last two years...... he hasn't actually missed a tackle, but in my mind that is poor defending

Hogg has been recorded as having seven miss tackles, of which one he actually had his hand on a shoulder, covered Vissers poor defending on three occasions (similar to 1/2p covering Hooks poor defending and missing the offensive shoulder) and once Maitland, that leaves TWO that he could be on a head to head have actually lost out defensively of which one was against Fofana who is one of the best centres around, and you can see how angry Hogg was at such a poor attempt.

So where is this myth of Hogg being a poor defender

Anyone who has had one "oh he looks big" moment is likely to have another. Two risky IMO

Don't think, 'oh he looks big' ever crosses though Hogg's mind, case in point his felling of De Batty (French prop) rampaging towards him. Hogg knocks him over and even wins a penalty. By contrast Fofana's as slippery as an eal, look at the way he waltzed & skipped through half the England team en route to the try line at Twickenham.

by kingjohn7 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:30 pm

Whats the problem with moving halfpenny to wing? Not saying id do it but makes some sense. He is/was an international winger(and a good one).
If Halfpenny is seen as invaluable and Hogg is seen as our best attacking back(we wont beat Aus by defending) then it could be an option. Also the front runners for the wings are all defensively weak(relatively) and will struggle being turned around by the Aussies kicking game(which will be good from most of them), Halfpenny will offer something different.
Also back 3 players can sort of interchange, covering for each other if,say the fullback goes upfield for up n under, the wing will now be fullback.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:46 pm

kingjohn7 wrote:Whats the problem with moving halfpenny to wing? Not saying id do it but makes some sense. He is/was an international winger(and a good one).
If Halfpenny is seen as invaluable and Hogg is seen as our best attacking back(we wont beat Aus by defending) then it could be an option. Also the front runners for the wings are all defensively weak(relatively) and will struggle being turned around by the Aussies kicking game(which will be good from most of them), Halfpenny will offer something different.
Also back 3 players can sort of interchange, covering for each other if,say the fullback goes upfield for up n under, the wing will now be fullback.

When did Halfpenny last play wing at international level?I cannot remember,can you?
Can you seriously say that Hogg is our best attacking back?Based on what exactly?Bowe,North,Cuthbert,Trimble and even Ashton have better CV's at international level.Breakaway tries against sides like Italy will not put the wind up the Ozzies.It is easy to shine in a side as poor as Scotland have been for decades.Witness the adulation that is flowing after Scotland managed to finish out of the bottom two!
Some of the defensively weak wings to which you refer have won back to back 6N's,losing only once.How nobody has managed to exploit this weakness is beyond me! Erm

by flyhalffactory Wed 03 Apr 2013, 9:56 pm

dragonbreath wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:Alun

There has been clips of 1/2p been run over, dummied/outpaced and out of position over the last two years...... he hasn't actually missed a tackle, but in my mind that is poor defending

Hogg has been recorded as having seven miss tackles, of which one he actually had his hand on a shoulder, covered Vissers poor defending on three occasions (similar to 1/2p covering Hooks poor defending and missing the offensive shoulder) and once Maitland, that leaves TWO that he could be on a head to head have actually lost out defensively of which one was against Fofana who is one of the best centres around, and you can see how angry Hogg was at such a poor attempt.

So where is this myth of Hogg being a poor defender

Anyone who has had one "oh he looks big" moment is likely to have another. Two risky IMO

So dragonbreath........... obviously you watched the France v Scotland match, yes?

And you saw De Batty of course you did, by the way just to nudge you in the right direction he was the huge French prop, who built up helluva head of steam towards Hogg and of course you know what the result was........ Hogg who saw him thought

"OH HE LOOKS BIG"

Ahem no! he not only absolutely nailed him but won the penalty, but 1/2p in a similar position was steam rolled over ended up with his head between legs highlighting his poor technique.

Now us Scots have never commented on the amount of times he has been dummied, outpaced, or been out of position in Oz or during the autumn series, but certain Welsh posters have commented on Fofana tucking Hogg up like a kipper and crucified him as a poor defender. It comes to something when we have to come back with past evidence on a bloody world class player so has to defend our own

ps. funny how every poll you have commented on has you running down other nations players who are ahead of Welsh players in the various positions

by RuggerRadge2611 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:00 pm

So Parisse must be rubbish too... Its easy to shine in underperforming teams right?

King John said it best! Lets get our best attacking threats on the pitch! It isn't just Italy Hogg has scored against anyway, he also scored against England, set up another against England, scored against France last year. His try against Wales that was disallowed for no reason.

so try another one

by flyhalffactory Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:02 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
kingjohn7 wrote:Whats the problem with moving halfpenny to wing? Not saying id do it but makes some sense. He is/was an international winger(and a good one).
If Halfpenny is seen as invaluable and Hogg is seen as our best attacking back(we wont beat Aus by defending) then it could be an option. Also the front runners for the wings are all defensively weak(relatively) and will struggle being turned around by the Aussies kicking game(which will be good from most of them), Halfpenny will offer something different.
Also back 3 players can sort of interchange, covering for each other if,say the fullback goes upfield for up n under, the wing will now be fullback.
When did Halfpenny last play wing at international level?I cannot remember,can you?
Can you seriously say that Hogg is our best attacking back?Based on what exactly?Bowe,North,Cuthbert,Trimble and even Ashton have better CV's at international level.Breakaway tries against sides like Italy will not put the wind up the Ozzies.It is easy to shine in a side as poor as Scotland have been for decades.Witness the adulation that is flowing after Scotland managed to finish out of the bottom two!
Some of the defensively weak wings to which you refer have won back to back 6N's,losing only once.How nobody has managed to exploit this weakness is beyond me!

Do you know know how seriously fast Hogg is?

Cuthbert will definitely not beat him over 20-80 mtrs, and I doubt whether Bowe or North would, Ashton is right up there and I don't know enough of Trimble to comment but as he cannae get in the Irish side I am assuming there are better qualified Irish wings

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:08 pm

So speed is all that a wing needs!Cuthbert,Bowe etc can do nowt but run fast but not as fast as the Scottish fullback!Lord help us.Tis no wonder that the Scots have struggled for so long.Shane wasn't too fast nor too big but he managed ok!Clueless.
Regards to Trimble,the individual who hasn't been picking him has just been sacked and Ireland did not do too well without him playing.

by flyhalffactory Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:15 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:So speed is all that a wing needs!Cuthbert,Bowe etc can do nowt but run fast but not as fast as the Scottish fullback!Lord help us.Tis no wonder that the Scots have struggled for so long.Shane wasn't too fast nor too big but he managed ok!Clueless.

So inform the forum what we will need to be an effective winger on the hard pitches down under come the first test.........
Bit of meat on the bone Eastbourne............... sorry taff in Eastbourne

The forum realise there's not much rugby where you come from but even when you watch on TV you would have realised that Shane was very very pacey and very quick acceleration, I do believe the Ospreys supporters will be shuffling in embarrassment now at your comments

by kingjohn7 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:21 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
Some of the defensively weak wings to which you refer have won back to back 6N's,losing only once.How nobody has managed to exploit this weakness is beyond me!

Ummmm let me think, Australia....Australia.... Australia...... Erm

Im not just referring to North and Cuthbert by the way.
Hogg is one of the best attacking backs, Bowe has been injured, Ashton? Behave mate. What difference does their past C.V make?
It may not be the thing to do, but it is not an option to be completely ignored.

by flyhalffactory Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:27 pm

kingjohn7 wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:
Some of the defensively weak wings to which you refer have won back to back 6N's,losing only once.How nobody has managed to exploit this weakness is beyond me!

Ummmm let me think, Australia....Australia.... Australia......
Im not just referring to North and Cuthbert by the way.
Hogg is one of the best attacking backs, Bowe has been injured, Ashton? Behave mate. What difference does their past C.V make?
It may not be the thing to do, but it is not an option to be completely ignored.

You cannae say things like that or you'll have Mr Eastbourne calling you clueless, forget that they have lost THREE on the bounce down under only last year, just remember the two 6Ns either side of the losses in Oz and the embarrassing autumn series

By the way the same wingers with their remarkable CVs were playing against southern hemisphere opponents as they were winning the 6Ns

As I said "Horses For Courses"

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:28 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:So speed is all that a wing needs!Cuthbert,Bowe etc can do nowt but run fast but not as fast as the Scottish fullback!Lord help us.Tis no wonder that the Scots have struggled for so long.Shane wasn't too fast nor too big but he managed ok!Clueless.

So inform the forum what we will need to be an effective winger on the hard pitches down under come the first test.........
Bit of meat on the bone Eastbourne............... sorry taff in Eastbourne

The forum realise there's not much rugby where you come from but even when you watch on TV you would have realised that Shane was very very pacey and very quick acceleration, I do believe the Ospreys supporters will be shuffling in embarrassment now at your comments

Being Welsh and having played and watched Rugby for nearly 60 years I simply find your post risable.Shane had speed of the mark but was never likely to score from fifty yards out.
Watch videos of Shane and Tommy Bowe and you may just learn the art of wing play.I used to be a wing and whilst being a schoolboy county sprint champion I needed to read what was in front of me,what cover was coming across,judging whether to slow down and accelerate or go flat out,look for support,cross kick,side step,throw a dummy,throw a pass,chip ahead.Pace helps but it is not all you need by any means.A Rugby man should know this,even from Scotland Whistle

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:33 pm

kingjohn7 wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:
Some of the defensively weak wings to which you refer have won back to back 6N's,losing only once.How nobody has managed to exploit this weakness is beyond me!

Ummmm let me think, Australia....Australia.... Australia......
Im not just referring to North and Cuthbert by the way.

Then why are you posting on this thread? laughing

by reallybored Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:36 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:When did Halfpenny last play wing at international level?I cannot remember,can you?
Can you seriously say that Hogg is our best attacking back?Based on what exactly?Bowe,North,Cuthbert,Trimble and even Ashton have better CV's at international level.Breakaway tries against sides like Italy will not put the wind up the Ozzies.It is easy to shine in a side as poor as Scotland have been for decades.Witness the adulation that is flowing after Scotland managed to finish out of the bottom two!
Some of the defensively weak wings to which you refer have won back to back 6N's,losing only once.How nobody has managed to exploit this weakness is beyond me!

What possible relevance does Scotland's form over the past decade have with Stuart Hogg's current individual form?

And as for adulation flowing, most Scotland fans were pretty disappointed by the way we finished the 6 Nations because we thought we had the ability to beat both Wales and France. It didn't happen but a number of our players definitely did enough throughout the the 6N to be in contention for the touring party.

What would you prefer Taffineastbourne, we send Wales down under again so they can get beaten for the second summer running?

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:37 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
kingjohn7 wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:
Some of the defensively weak wings to which you refer have won back to back 6N's,losing only once.How nobody has managed to exploit this weakness is beyond me!

Ummmm let me think, Australia....Australia.... Australia......
Im not just referring to North and Cuthbert by the way.
Hogg is one of the best attacking backs, Bowe has been injured, Ashton? Behave mate. What difference does their past C.V make?
It may not be the thing to do, but it is not an option to be completely ignored.

You cannae say things like that or you'll have Mr Eastbourne calling you clueless, forget that they have lost THREE on the bounce down under only last year, just remember the two 6Ns either side of the losses in Oz and the embarrassing autumn series

By the way the same wingers with their remarkable CVs were playing against southern hemisphere opponents as they were winning the 6Ns

As I said "Horses For Courses"

Your "finest" could not beat us again.When was the last time you managed this.My memory is not as good as it might be. Smile

by flyhalffactory Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:41 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:So speed is all that a wing needs!Cuthbert,Bowe etc can do nowt but run fast but not as fast as the Scottish fullback!Lord help us.Tis no wonder that the Scots have struggled for so long.Shane wasn't too fast nor too big but he managed ok!Clueless.

So inform the forum what we will need to be an effective winger on the hard pitches down under come the first test.........
Bit of meat on the bone Eastbourne............... sorry taff in Eastbourne

The forum realise there's not much rugby where you come from but even when you watch on TV you would have realised that Shane was very very pacey and very quick acceleration, I do believe the Ospreys supporters will be shuffling in embarrassment now at your comments
Being Welsh and having played and watched Rugby for nearly 60 years I simply find your post risable.Shane had speed of the mark but was never likely to score from fifty yards out.
Watch videos of Shane and Tommy Bowe and you may just learn the art of wing play.I used to be a wing and whilst being a schoolboy county sprint champion I needed to read what was in front of me,what cover was coming across,judging whether to slow down and accelerate or go flat out,look for support,cross kick,side step,throw a dummy,throw a pass,chip ahead.Pace helps but it is not all you need by any means.A Rugby man should know this,even from Scotland

When have I said pace is all you need to a winger, but anyone would understand that as a winger it would be your main asset..... for goodness sake man behave

I now realise you know very very little about the game of rugby and would love a bit of evidence of your exploits, Williams major strength was his acceleration and his speed...... I (and bl00dy hell I am not even Welsh) can tell of many instances when he run the length of the pitch to beat opponents. I was not a winger but played a reasonable level county level rugby and beyond as a blindside, I am assuming you must be over 70 (having played rugby for nearly 60 yrs) and being a schoolboy sprint champion you will have known my old college lecturer who was in Welsh sprint 100, 200 and 400 yard squad

by IanBru Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:43 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:Your "finest" could not beat us again.When was the last time you managed this.My memory is not as good as it might be.

Erm, Wales aren't playing Scotland this summer, Taff. The Lions are playing Australia.

Do try to keep up.

by welshboii15 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:43 pm

The way I see the lions going its going be alot of forward play from the lions because we should be miles better in the pack, so this means when Australia do have the ball their going want ball away from the forwards so I think we need a dangerous pack but a defensive back line

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:45 pm

reallybored wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:When did Halfpenny last play wing at international level?I cannot remember,can you?
Can you seriously say that Hogg is our best attacking back?Based on what exactly?Bowe,North,Cuthbert,Trimble and even Ashton have better CV's at international level.Breakaway tries against sides like Italy will not put the wind up the Ozzies.It is easy to shine in a side as poor as Scotland have been for decades.Witness the adulation that is flowing after Scotland managed to finish out of the bottom two!
Some of the defensively weak wings to which you refer have won back to back 6N's,losing only once.How nobody has managed to exploit this weakness is beyond me!
What possible relevance does Scotland's form over the past decade have with Stuart Hogg's current individual form?

And as for adulation flowing, most Scotland fans were pretty disappointed by the way we finished the 6 Nations because we thought we had the ability to beat both Wales and France. It didn't happen but a number of our players definitely did enough throughout the the 6N to be in contention for the touring party.

What would you prefer Taffineastbourne, we send Wales down under again so they can get beaten for the second summer running?
To be brutally honest,in answer to the question "which Scottish player would I like in the Welsh side?"I would have to say none.Hogg would bench along with Gray.
Can the Lions be strengthened over just the Welsh side?Yes.Healey,SOB and Sexton would make a difference.Sorry that I don't rate your lot at the moment.I seriously hope that you become competitive again but with only one viable side at Rabo level it will be a challenge for you.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 10:57 pm

flyhalffactory wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:
flyhalffactory wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:So speed is all that a wing needs!Cuthbert,Bowe etc can do nowt but run fast but not as fast as the Scottish fullback!Lord help us.Tis no wonder that the Scots have struggled for so long.Shane wasn't too fast nor too big but he managed ok!Clueless.

So inform the forum what we will need to be an effective winger on the hard pitches down under come the first test.........
Bit of meat on the bone Eastbourne............... sorry taff in Eastbourne

The forum realise there's not much rugby where you come from but even when you watch on TV you would have realised that Shane was very very pacey and very quick acceleration, I do believe the Ospreys supporters will be shuffling in embarrassment now at your comments
Being Welsh and having played and watched Rugby for nearly 60 years I simply find your post risable.Shane had speed of the mark but was never likely to score from fifty yards out.
Watch videos of Shane and Tommy Bowe and you may just learn the art of wing play.I used to be a wing and whilst being a schoolboy county sprint champion I needed to read what was in front of me,what cover was coming across,judging whether to slow down and accelerate or go flat out,look for support,cross kick,side step,throw a dummy,throw a pass,chip ahead.Pace helps but it is not all you need by any means.A Rugby man should know this,even from Scotland

When have I said pace is all you need to a winger, but anyone would understand that as a winger it would be your main asset..... for goodness sake man behave

I now realise you know very very little about the game of rugby and would love a bit of evidence of your exploits, Williams major strength was his acceleration and his speed...... I (and bl00dy hell I am not even Welsh) can tell of many instances when he run the length of the pitch to beat opponents. I was not a winger but played a reasonable level county level rugby and beyond as a blindside, I am assuming you must be over 70 (having played rugby for nearly 60 yrs) and being a schoolboy sprint champion you will have known my old college lecturer who was in Welsh sprint 100, 200 and 400 yard squad

Who mentioned Hogg's gas?who mentioned nothing else?Go back to the knitting forum.
Who was your college lecturer?I am 59 by the way.
When did Shane run the length of the pitch at International level?
You are right I know absolutely nothing about Rugby and I feel honoured to share the same forum with your clearly all knowing grasp of Rugby.I am humbled.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:01 pm

IanBru wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:Your "finest" could not beat us again.When was the last time you managed this.My memory is not as good as it might be.
Erm, Wales aren't playing Scotland this summer, Taff. The Lions are playing Australia.

Do try to keep up.

I will type this slowly so that you can keep up.
If a side keeps beating another side regularly it is a fairly safe assumptionthatthe victorious side has the better players.
Can you follow this logic?

by IanBru Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:05 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:If a side keeps beating another side regularly it is a fairly safe assumptionthatthe victorious side has the better players.
Can you follow this logic?

Taff, I agree completely. Your logic is undeniable and irrefutable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_union_matches_between_Australia_and_Wales

by reallybored Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:09 pm

Taffineastbourne wrote:To be brutally honest,in answer to the question "which Scottish player would I like in the Welsh side?"I would have to say none.Hogg would bench along with Gray.
Can the Lions be strengthened over just the Welsh side?Yes.Healey,SOB and Sexton would make a difference.Sorry that I don't rate your lot at the moment.I seriously hope that you become competitive again but with only one viable side at Rabo level it will be a challenge for you.

This is the type of comment that makes me despise fans like you, if you'd put a cricket score on us then fine make that comment but you didn't you.

I think Hogg is better than Halfpenny right now and this poll tends to indicate that a lot of other people agree.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:15 pm

[quote="IanBru"]

Taffineastbourne wrote:If a side keeps beating another side regularly it is a fairly safe assumptionthatthe victorious side has the better players.
Can you follow this logic?

Taff, I agree completely. Your logic is undeniable and irrefutable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rugby_union_matches_between_Australia_and_Wales[/quote
I thought the Lions were playing Oz though their record isn't crash hot.Pay attention.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:19 pm

reallybored wrote:
Taffineastbourne wrote:To be brutally honest,in answer to the question "which Scottish player would I like in the Welsh side?"I would have to say none.Hogg would bench along with Gray.
Can the Lions be strengthened over just the Welsh side?Yes.Healey,SOB and Sexton would make a difference.Sorry that I don't rate your lot at the moment.I seriously hope that you become competitive again but with only one viable side at Rabo level it will be a challenge for you.
This is the type of comment that makes me despise fans like you, if you'd put a cricket score on us then fine make that comment but you didn't you.

I think Hogg is better than Halfpenny right now and this poll tends to indicate that a lot of other people agree.
Whilst I hold the voters on this forum in high esteem,I would tend towards the worthy folk charged with awarding the Player of the 6N's.
I do not despise fans like you.Pity is the appropriate word.

by welshboii15 Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:20 pm

Right straight out with it
Tell me how Hogg is better than Halfpenny explain.
He scored only one try more than halfpenny and he set up one other try. Hogg also made more metres than halfpenny but hogg also made more mistakes I believe

by aucklandlaurie Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:20 pm

A lot of support for Stuart Hogg here.

by Taffineastbourne Wed 03 Apr 2013, 11:26 pm

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:So Parisse must be rubbish too... Its easy to shine in underperforming teams right?

King John said it best! Lets get our best attacking threats on the pitch! It isn't just Italy Hogg has scored against anyway, he also scored against England, set up another against England, scored against France last year. His try against Wales that was disallowed for no reason.

so try another one

I think I said it was easy to shine in a side as poor as Scotland.I did not mention Italy,a side that hold in higher esteem.Parisse is a fantastic player despite not being Scottish for the benefit of our one-eyed cousins up North.

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