Wales Tour of Japan

by Glas a du Tue 30 Apr 2013, 3:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

I know there was a thread on this somewhere, but it's been swamped.

Wales Lions - likely replacements

Halfpenny - Liam Williams
Cuthbert - Walker, Robinson
Davies - Williams, Maule
Roberts - Beck, Hewitt
North - Owen Williams (gutted for Mike Poole)
Phillips - Aled Davies, Tavis Knoyle
Jenkins - Gill
Hibbard - Myhill
Jones - Mitchell
AW Jones - Lou Reed
Ian Evans - King, Kohn
Lydiate - Ieuan Jones
Warburton and Tipuric - Thomas
Faletau - Bearman

What do you think? Anybody else you'd like to see tour Japan?

Wales Training Squad:
Forwards: Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Rhys Gill (Saracens), Sam Hobbs (Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Scott Andrews (Blues), Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Blues), Lou Reed (Blues), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), James King (Ospreys), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Rob McCusker (Scarlets), Andries Pretorius (Blues), Josh Navidi (Blues).
Backs: Lloyd Williams (Blues), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Aled Davis (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Ashley Beck (Ospreys), Owen Williams (Blues), Jonathan Spratt (Ospreys), Dafydd Howells (Ospreys), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Harry Robinson (Blues), Tom Prydie (Dragons), Steven Shingler (London Irish).

LATEST WRU PRESS RELEASE:

Wales Training Squad Update

Wales have called Cardiff Blues outside half Rhys Patchell and Newport Gwent Dragons hooker Sam Parry into their training squad for the tour of Japan but Scarlets fly-half Rhys Priestland has been ruled out of the tour.

Priestland aggravated his Achilles tendon in the warm-up of the Scarlets’ RaboDirect PRO12 semi-final on Friday evening and will miss the two-test tour.

Patchell, 19, who has scored 147 points in 22 appearances for the Blues this season and Haverfordwest born Parry, joined up with the training squad when they met for the first time this morning.

Ken Owens, Scott Williams and Liam Williams who picked up knocks in the defeat to Ulster, will continue to be monitored by the National Squad medical team.

Rhys PATCHELL (CARDIFF BLUES - Uncapped)
DoB: 17.05.93. 6’2” / 1.88m. 14st 13lbs / 95kgs
International record: Uncapped

Sam PARRY (NEWPORT GWENT DRAGONS - Uncapped)
DoB: 17.12.91. 6’1” / 1.86m. 16st 11lbs / 107kgs
International record: Uncapped.

Further update:

Scott Williams out. Will not be replaced in the squad.

Further update:

Ken Owens confirmed out, won't be replaced. 27 man squad TBA.

Cheers Munkian:

PRESS RELEASE FROM THE WELSH RUGBY UNION:
WALES ANNOUNCE JAPAN TOUR SQUAD

Cardiff Blues lock Bradley Davies will lead Wales in the forthcoming two-test tour of Japan.

The 26-year-old was named captain as Head Coach for the Japan tour Robin McBryde reduced his initial training squad down to a 27-man touring party.

The squad includes nine uncapped players including Ospreys duo Dafydd Howells and Dan Baker and Blues fly-half Rhys Patchell.

Props Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Scott Andrews (Blues) and Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs) who all featured for Wales in the 2013 RBS 6 Nations are joined by Saracens’ Rhys Gill and Rhodri Jones (Scarlets).

Uncapped pair Emyr Phillips (Scarlets) and Scott Baldwin (Ospreys) are named as hookers.

Davies returns to the squad after missing the Six Nations campaign due to injury and is named alongside Andrew Coombs (Dragons), Lou Reed (Blues) and James King (Ospreys).

Baker, 20, who featured 25 times for Swansea in the Principality Premiership this season, joins Scarlets duo Aaron Shingler and Rob McCusker and Blues captain Andries Pretorius.

Lloyd Williams (Blues) and Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets) are named at scrum-half alongside Dan Biggar (Ospreys) and Patchell at fly-half.

In the backline Ospreys trio Ashley Beck, Jonathan Spratt and 18-year-old Howells are joined by Blues duo Owen Williams and Harry Robinson, Liam Williams (Scarlets), Tom Prydie (Dragons) and Steven Shingler (London Irish).

Wales face Eddie Jones’ Japan in Osaka on June 8th and then in Tokyo on June 15th and McBryde has been impressed with his squad over the past ten days.

“We’ve had the training squad together for more than a week and we’ve been impressed,” said McBryde.

“They have really put the effort in and stepped up as we have asked them to. Everyone in the training squad put their hand up for selection making our jobs much harder.

“It’s a chance for these players now to experience the international test environment and put their marker down.
Wales Squad:

Forwards: Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Rhys Gill (Saracens), Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Scott Andrews (Blues), Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Blues), Lou Reed (Blues), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), James King (Ospreys), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Rob McCusker (Scarlets), Andries Pretorius (Blues).

Backs: Lloyd Williams (Blues), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Patchell (Blues), Ashley Beck (Ospreys), Owen Williams (Blues), Jonathan Spratt (Ospreys), Dafydd Howells (Ospreys), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Harry Robinson (Blues), Tom Prydie (Dragons), Steven Shingler (London Irish).

by wales606 Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:17 am

Aelandor wrote:So of the "newcomers" that means Andrews and Navidi. I think Navidi need Warburton and Tipuric to both retire very early to have any sort of chance of a "proper" Welsh cap. Remember Tipuric is only 23 so still has at least 10 years in front of him at the top.

I think Navidi might be better at 6 internationally - playing alongside Warburton as he does for the Blues would be a good combination, perhaps a better combination than with Shingler, although you would lose Shingler's pace and lineout presence

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:19 am

Japan get two IRB Ranking points out of that match, which puts them on 70.91. Fiji are currently above them, with 71.29 so they will stay in 15th place for now.

Wales lose two points which takes them to just below France (France, of course, are just about to play).

by aucklandlaurie Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:27 am

So the fifteenth ranked team in the World beats the 5th, thats like Scotland beating the All Blacks.

by Scrumpy Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:29 am

it could happen!

by wales606 Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:31 am

I thnk the difference in ranking point is probably bigger between Scotland and the All Blacks than Wales and Japan!

Certianly after Wales and Scotland losing points over the last 2 weekends

by Guest Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:36 am

Ridiculous decision to play so many inexperienced players. Sod blooding youngsters. This has shown a distinct lack of respect to the opposition. We've lost ranking points which has cost us dear in the past (world cup seeding) so it's something we should be conscious of and something we should look to preserve, not throw away for the sake of giving youngsters experience.

What will this experience actually do for those who have been 'blooded'? Apart from give them the stigma of being in that team that lost to Japan. They'll come back with their heads hung in shame so this is more damaging for those players than anything. International rugby should be earned IMO, but some of those boys have played very little pro rugby and therefore shouldn't have been given a cap so easily.

by Guest Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:46 am

Griff wrote:Ridiculous decision to play so many inexperienced players. Sod blooding youngsters. This has shown a distinct lack of respect to the opposition. We've lost ranking points which has cost us dear in the past (world cup seeding) so it's something we should be conscious of and something we should look to preserve, not throw away for the sake of giving youngsters experience.

What will this experience actually do for those who have been 'blooded'? Apart from give them the stigma of being in that team that lost to Japan. They'll come back with their heads hung in shame so this is more damaging for those players than anything. International rugby should be earned IMO, but some of those boys have played very little pro rugby and therefore shouldn't have been given a cap so easily.

Exactly. So somebody like Daf Howells has two caps now and there's a very good chance that he won't get another one again.

I agree totally on the lack of respect. Firstly, we should have picked our strongest available squad (as I said). Secondly, players like Jon Evans have to have their form rewarded. The problem with this is, of course the WRU will dress over this and hope to frig that we somehow turn over one of the big two in the AI's so they can dress over it. Personally, I am appalled at the complete lack of respect shown by the WRU to handing out caps nowadays (be it this tour or Barbarians games)

by ScarletSpiderman Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:48 am

The one thing that irks me is that the team that won last week were on paper worse, and played far poorer than the side that got stuffed today. So realistically we took a team that should have done the job and come back with two wins.

by Guest Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:50 am

Realistically we should be coming back from Japan with a 2-0 series defeat.

by doctor_grey Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:52 am

That is worrying, no?

by bedfordwelsh Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:52 am

Risca Rev wrote:Realistically we should be coming back from Japan with a 2-0 series defeat. Cant argue with that Rev

by international197 Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:53 am

I think this is a good result for Japanese rugby. I believe they fought well against France in the 2011 RWC* and now they have the result they've been working hard for. Onward and upward for Japanese rugby, I hope, from now on. I hope this result will give them added confidence when they come to Scotland on the 9th November 2013*, I think they'll have their tails up for that game and I suspect any team can win on the day.

*http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/14806240
*http://www.planetrugby.co.uk/calendar/0,25887,3890,00.html

by bedfordwelsh Sat 15 Jun 2013, 8:58 am

Risca Rev wrote:
Griff wrote:Ridiculous decision to play so many inexperienced players. Sod blooding youngsters. This has shown a distinct lack of respect to the opposition. We've lost ranking points which has cost us dear in the past (world cup seeding) so it's something we should be conscious of and something we should look to preserve, not throw away for the sake of giving youngsters experience.

What will this experience actually do for those who have been 'blooded'? Apart from give them the stigma of being in that team that lost to Japan. They'll come back with their heads hung in shame so this is more damaging for those players than anything. International rugby should be earned IMO, but some of those boys have played very little pro rugby and therefore shouldn't have been given a cap so easily.

Exactly. So somebody like Daf Howells has two caps now and there's a very good chance that he won't get another one again.

I agree totally on the lack of respect. Firstly, we should have picked our strongest available squad (as I said). Secondly, players like Jon Evans have to have their form rewarded. The problem with this is, of course the WRU will dress over this and hope to frig that we somehow turn over one of the big two in the AI's so they can dress over it. Personally, I am appalled at the complete lack of respect shown by the WRU to handing out caps nowadays (be it this tour or Barbarians games)

Griff,

I am all for sending a development side as some of the lads need a rest but if that's case lets label it as such, this was (as books will show) a full Welsh tour one in which we lost to Japan and drew a series.

Evans and Hughes should have been rewarded I agree but the likes of James, Rees, R Jones, Hook, Byrne even Delve should have all gone if its a full tour.

As for the WRU well they won't give a flying feck, they will hide behind the ' its a development side, they will gain experience, biggest part of full side plus coaches away with Lions' etc etc and we all know that come the big AI games and the 6 Nations the MS will be full as it always is and that's all the care about.

by ScarletSpiderman Sat 15 Jun 2013, 9:06 am

To be honest this result will most likely go unnoticed by thevgeneral welsh rugby public, after all how many people have been talking about this tour at work or in the pubs? It will be covered up by stories in the press about how well the welsh players do on the Lions tour etc, and come November the MS will be full of cowboy hats again.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 15 Jun 2013, 9:09 am

SS,

Yeah fair one the closet fans won't even know its going on.

by RDSguru Sat 15 Jun 2013, 9:14 am

Even us actual fans won't want to be talking about it.. we will, but won't want to!

by Coleman Sat 15 Jun 2013, 9:26 am

I want to be happy for Japanese rugby, don't get me wrong. But rugby is the only team sport I really care about. So when we go and bungle a series that we could have won if we hadn’t picked 12/13 untested players I get pretty annoyed. I don't want to be a whiner or take anything away from Japanese rugby but our selection showed very little respect for the Japanese and we've been punished rightly. We should invite them to play next autumn and play them with a full team.

by wales606 Sat 15 Jun 2013, 9:35 am

The Japanese defense was better than anything I have ever seen from them - their coach is doing a fantastic job, a strong defense is the most important part of the game, and with it they will be able to compete with anyone despite a lack of possession or territory. As they showed today

by Taffineastbourne Sat 15 Jun 2013, 9:42 am

Congrats to Japan.We got what we deserved with that selection.I can only hope that the Management took some benefit from our selections.
I thought that Gill demonstrated why he has not been more involved at International level for one.
Patchell will be pushing for a match day inclusion come the AI's
The loss of World ranking points is not much of an issue this far out from the WC after next to be fair.

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 15 Jun 2013, 9:53 am

No Welsh side should ever get beat off Japan, this a serious upset.

by Impossible Standards Sat 15 Jun 2013, 9:54 am

Ridiculous decision to play so many inexperienced players. Sod blooding youngsters. This has shown a distinct lack of respect to the opposition. We've lost ranking points which has cost us dear in the past (world cup seeding) so it's something we should be conscious of and something we should look to preserve, not throw away for the sake of giving youngsters experience.

What will this experience actually do for those who have been 'blooded'? Apart from give them the stigma of being in that team that lost to Japan. They'll come back with their heads hung in shame so this is more damaging for those players than anything. International rugby should be earned IMO, but some of those boys have played very little pro rugby and therefore shouldn't have been given a cap so easily.

Completely agree.

We got what we deserved and I have to say a big congratulations to Japan who showed wales that you can still play very effective rugby even if you'r not 7ft 9 and 47 stone!!!!

In all seriousness it was a great effort by the cherry and whites and I hate to see any Wales team lose even if it is a 3rd string side but credit where it is due. clap

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 15 Jun 2013, 10:05 am

Hardly a 3rd string Wales team.

Bigger, Davies, Williams, L-Williams, Coombes are all first team regulars or at worst bench options.

by Guest Sat 15 Jun 2013, 10:08 am

Yep, I haven't congratulated Japan yet. Well done to them. I haven't actually seen the game yet, so just commenting on the result and score line.

We claim to want to be one of the top teams in the world, so we need to emulate the best. You wouldn't see the likes of NZ or SA acting like us. When they face weaker nations like Wales, Etc. they don't send out some semi pros and kids. Maybe blood a couple. But they maintain a healthy respect by putting out a strong side full of pros and give us a good spanking to maintain their position at the top of the world. That's how to be a top team. Sending a pub side to the other side of the world to get beaten makes a mockery of touring. Why bother? Who learns anything? All it has done for us is put pressure on the coaches, players and management. It's probably made us another enemy in world rugby as Japan will feel firstly happy with a win, but then perhaps a bit disrespected that we sent a 3rd choice team and left perfectly good, experienced players at home for a rest. Wales tours every summer so why players need a rest this summer is beyond me.

by wales606 Sat 15 Jun 2013, 10:08 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hardly a 3rd string Wales team.

Bigger, Davies, Williams, L-Williams, Coombes are all first team regulars or at worst bench options.

Only Biggar would be in the first 15, and that is debatable

None of those others are first team bench player except Williams, who really shouldn't be

by Impossible Standards Sat 15 Jun 2013, 10:10 am

Bigger, Davies, Williams, L-Williams, Coombes are all first team regulars or at worst bench options.

Really? Ok possible biggar and L-Williams (bench only). Coombes was only in the 6N as cover. Our first team locks are I evans, AW jones, chateris. Liam Williams isn't a regular he just covered when we again had injuries in which he played out of position on the wing.

by wales606 Sat 15 Jun 2013, 10:13 am

This is from last weeks 23, but you get the idea

..................

1st XV 1. Gethin Jenkins 2. Richard Hibbard 3. Adam Jones 4. Alun Wyn Jones 5. Ian Evans 6. Dan Lydiate 7. Sam Warburton 8. Toby Faletau 9. Mike Phillips 10. Dan Biggar 11. George North 12. Jamie Roberts 13. Jonathan Davies 14. Alex Cuthbert 15. Leigh Halfpenny

2nd XV 1. Paul James 2. Ken Owens 3. Craig Mitchell 4. Bradley Davies 5. Luke Charteris 6. Aaron Shingler 7. Justin Tipuric 8. Ryan Jones 9. Lloyd Williams 10. Rhys Preistland 11. Eli Walker 12. Ashley Beck 13. Scott Williams 14. Liam Williams 15. Lee Byrne

3rd XV 1. Ryan Bevington 2. Matthew Rees 3. Scott Andrews 4. Andrew Coombes 5. James King 6. Rob McCusker 7. Josh Navidi 8. Andreus Pretorious 9. Tavis Knoyle 10. Rhys Patchell 11. Harry Robinson 12. James Hook 13. Owen Williams 14. Tom Prydie 15. Steven Shingler

4th XV 1. Rhys Gill 2. Emyr Phillips 3. Samson Lee 4. Lou Reed 5. Ian Gough 6. Ellis Jenkins 7. Josh Turnball 8. Dan Baker 9. Rhys Webb 10. Owen Williams 11. Dafydd Howells 12. Jonathan Spratt 13. Adam Warren 14. Richard Fussell 15. Dan Evans

5th XV 1. Sam Hobbs 2. Scott Baldwin 3. Aaron Jarvis

by Sgt_Pooly Sat 15 Jun 2013, 10:28 am

So more of a 2nd/3rd choice side then (with a couple of first choice in there too)

by aucklandlaurie Sat 15 Jun 2013, 10:33 am

Sgt_Pooly wrote:So more of a 2nd/3rd choice side then (with a couple of first choice in there too)

Gee if the Western Force did that they'd be labled as disrespectful.

by Seagultaf Sat 15 Jun 2013, 10:50 am

wales606 wrote:This is from last weeks 23, but you get the idea

..................

1st XV 1. Gethin Jenkins 2. Richard Hibbard 3. Adam Jones 4. Alun Wyn Jones 5. Ian Evans 6. Dan Lydiate 7. Sam Warburton 8. Toby Faletau 9. Mike Phillips 10. Dan Biggar 11. George North 12. Jamie Roberts 13. Jonathan Davies 14. Alex Cuthbert 15. Leigh Halfpenny

2nd XV 1. Paul James 2. Ken Owens 3. Craig Mitchell 4. Bradley Davies 5. Luke Charteris 6. Aaron Shingler 7. Justin Tipuric 8. Ryan Jones 9. Lloyd Williams 10. Rhys Preistland 11. Eli Walker 12. Ashley Beck 13. Scott Williams 14. Liam Williams 15. Lee Byrne

3rd XV 1. Ryan Bevington 2. Matthew Rees 3. Scott Andrews 4. Andrew Coombes 5. James King 6. Rob McCusker 7. Josh Navidi 8. Andreus Pretorious 9. Tavis Knoyle 10. Rhys Patchell 11. Harry Robinson 12. James Hook 13. Owen Williams 14. Tom Prydie 15. Steven Shingler

4th XV 1. Rhys Gill 2. Emyr Phillips 3. Samson Lee 4. Lou Reed 5. Ian Gough 6. Ellis Jenkins 7. Josh Turnball 8. Dan Baker 9. Rhys Webb 10. Owen Williams 11. Dafydd Howells 12. Jonathan Spratt 13. Adam Warren 14. Richard Fussell 15. Dan Evans

5th XV 1. Sam Hobbs 2. Scott Baldwin 3. Aaron Jarvis

You left out Rhodri Jones who is probably 4th / 5th loose head.

Also I would rate; Ashley Smith, Adam Hughes and Gareth Maul ahead of Adam Warren and Owen Williams. Dirksen and Fenby ahead of Dafydd Howells. Peel and Jon Evans ahead of Webb and maybe the two 9s on tour. Also Jon Thomas, Lewis Evans and Bearman ahead of Dan Baker (who played quite well) and Macusker.

The squad lacked some old heads and some craft, development side or A side yes but if that's a Wales side then those were some very cheap caps.

by Seagultaf Sat 15 Jun 2013, 10:53 am

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Sgt_Pooly wrote:So more of a 2nd/3rd choice side then (with a couple of first choice in there too)

Gee if the Western Force did that they'd be labelled as disrespectful.

Spot on, we have all criticised Aussie teams for fielding weakened sides against the Lions, but Wales have done the same. I am pretty old fashioned I think you must be the best available player in the position to play for your country, not someone who may or may not come good in the future.

by Duty281 Sat 15 Jun 2013, 1:12 pm

Oh Wales, you don't help yourselves do you?

by Shifty Sat 15 Jun 2013, 1:37 pm

wales606 wrote:And Japan can seal the victory with this kick

Dire, it's like watching the Blues

14 Harry Robinson
9 Lloyd Williams
3 Scott Andrews
4 Bradley Davies
5 Lou Reed
7 Josh Navidi
8 Andries Pretorius

Dazzling deduction 606! Hug

by Knowsit17 Sat 15 Jun 2013, 1:38 pm

Embarrassing performance regardless of how weakened the side was. The team has truly outdone itself in its mission to plumb new lows between 6N. If we're doling out first wins to sides that shouldn't really be anywhere near us why not visit Namibia and Russia next summer?

by maestegmafia Sat 15 Jun 2013, 1:45 pm

Well Played Japan, a great victory for the cherry blossoms.

Wales were naive and impotent.

by Shifty Sat 15 Jun 2013, 1:47 pm

I don't think enough people are giving Japan their due credit here.

Nearly all Welsh rugby fans have always seen the Japanese team as nippers running round like headless chickens, chucking the ball around, and often ballsing it up while getting smashed by anything between 50 and 100 points, against tier 1 countries.

Anyone taking the time to watch them would know they have made steady improvements in recent years. Often I have watched their games over the years when I can, like in the World Cup or Pacific Nations cup and in truth their pretty good, sadly they have taken so many hammerings in the last 20 years from tier 1 nations that people won't give them the respect they deserve.

I guess it's just a sad fact that people always think back to that 145-13 loss to New Zealand in 1995 where Simon Culhane kicked 20 conversions on his debut, and Marc Ellis got 6 tries. (Thank god Lomu was injured against Wales!).

From a Welsh point of view, we gambled taking a young side to Japan and lost. Aside from Scott Andrews and maybe Dan Biggar none of the players given a chance have come back with their reputations enhanced. In fact many players would of gone backwards from this. The only real positive I can see is James King is Welsh now, he can't be taken by Australia or England.

by Dontheman Sat 15 Jun 2013, 3:58 pm

Isn't it so that the AI's (inc SA)and 2014 6Ns are hugely important for Wales and we need some firepower in well rested senior players for that when the 1st XV come back from Oz. Injuries are already proliferating and there are going to be. a lot of knackered players reporting back for club duty to earn their crust. Go forward for Wales as has long been said means SH scalps and SA are first up in November but to bolster support and attendance in Wales we need to continue 6N dominance and we're not quite there yet imho. So a drawn 'series' in Japan by the lads is fair enough lots of questions asked but don't get your knickers in a twist it's not the real thing. Also on the other hand it's good for Japan to increase their credibility with their fans with the RWC coming to them in 2019

by international197 Sat 15 Jun 2013, 5:01 pm

I think Wales did themselves no favors in taking experienced players like Dan Biggar, Bradley Davies, Liam Williams, Lloyd Williams and Lou Reed out to Japan. I believe these players are used to playing tier one nations like the All Blacks, the Wallabies, France, Ireland, England and so on and I believe they haven't learned as much as other players by going on this tour. I thought less experienced players like Harry Robinson, Emyr Phillips, Rhys Patchell, Tom Prydie and so on have learned much more and will be better prepared for the 2013/2014 season at their regions with the Japan experience under their belt. Had Wales taken more experienced players like James Hook, Matthew Rees and Alew Brew I believe the likes of Harry Robinson, Emyr Phillips, Rhys Patchell, and Tom Prydie would maybe not have had the same experience as they have gained in a less experienced squad. I believe experience does not necessarily breed a healthy squad, but competition for places certainly does and I think Wales had that in the squad selected for this tour, and that was evident in the first test when they beat a very well organised Japanese team, and the second test.

by wayne Sat 15 Jun 2013, 5:23 pm

To have this as a full cap tour shows how out of touch the WRU are, after we won the 6 Nations we should either have told Japan this would only be a development tour and if they wouldn't have that tell them we would not tour there, if they had us by the short and curlies (legally) we should have selected all our best players to tour. How many times have we seen or it has been mentioned about losing to Canada, Samoa or absolutely hammered by the SH big three when we haven't our best players available. It was like the 4th AI last season against Australia which put us outside the top 8 in the world rankings and ensured we drew them and England in the next WC. It also ensured that the Regions had 1 full training session for very important HC matches the following weekend.
Chris Rattue was right, only it is the WRU are the VILLAGE IDIOTS of world rugby, the sooner the Dodger and his cohorts left the better.

by **Rugby Fan** Sat 15 Jun 2013, 5:39 pm

wayne wrote:To have this as a full cap tour shows how out of touch the WRU are, after we won the 6 Nations we should either have told Japan this would only be a development tour and if they wouldn't have that tell them we would not tour there, if they had us by the short and curlies (legally) we should have selected all our best players to tour.

You can't leave it as late as the end of the Six Nations to set terms for the summer tour. Plans have to be made well in advance. Japan had specificially sought to host a full international series and had arranged decent sponsorship to make it an attractive offer. Wales were the side which chose to accept the offer. It was almost Italy.

by wayne Sat 15 Jun 2013, 5:50 pm

Rugby Fan wrote:
wayne wrote:To have this as a full cap tour shows how out of touch the WRU are, after we won the 6 Nations we should either have told Japan this would only be a development tour and if they wouldn't have that tell them we would not tour there, if they had us by the short and curlies (legally) we should have selected all our best players to tour.
You can't leave it as late as the end of the Six Nations to set terms for the summer tour. Plans have to be made well in advance. Japan had specificially sought to host a full international series and had arranged decent sponsorship to make it an attractive offer. Wales were the side which chose to accept the offer. It was almost Italy.
Well it would have been better if it was Italy, as you decided to ignore the point of selecting the best possible squad available, including RJ, MR, JH, PJ etc, we have a envious record of losing to lesser teams when our best players are not available.

by international197 Sat 15 Jun 2013, 6:03 pm

I think it's disappointing that the Japan tour has been played the same time as the JWC because I believe several other players in the U20s Wales squad, apart from Harry Robinson and Rhys Patchell who were with the seniors in Japan, were good enough to be part of a Welsh squad that went to Japan and won a series.

by Guest Sat 15 Jun 2013, 9:29 pm

international197 wrote:I think Wales did themselves no favors in taking experienced players like Dan Biggar, Bradley Davies, Liam Williams, Lloyd Williams and Lou Reed out to Japan. I believe these players are used to playing tier one nations like the All Blacks, the Wallabies, France, Ireland, England and so on and I believe they haven't learned as much as other players by going on this tour. I thought less experienced players like Harry Robinson, Emyr Phillips, Rhys Patchell, Tom Prydie and so on have learned much more and will be better prepared for the 2013/2014 season at their regions with the Japan experience under their belt. Had Wales taken more experienced players like James Hook, Matthew Rees and Alew Brew I believe the likes of Harry Robinson, Emyr Phillips, Rhys Patchell, and Tom Prydie would maybe not have had the same experience as they have gained in a less experienced squad. I believe experience does not necessarily breed a healthy squad, but competition for places certainly does and I think Wales had that in the squad selected for this tour, and that was evident in the first test when they beat a very well organised Japanese team, and the second test.

Wrong in my opinion. Less experienced players learn a lot from playing or training with quality players, not from playing or training with new or out of form caps.

They won the first test, but it was a bit of a robbery. We can't take anything from that either.

by bedfordwelsh Sat 15 Jun 2013, 11:12 pm

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Hardly a 3rd string Wales team.

Bigger, Davies, Williams, L-Williams, Coombes are all first team regulars or at worst bench options

Biggar is only one you could say is 1st choice and that's debatable if Priestland fit an on form.

Davies is 4th choice behind AWJ, Evans and Charteris

Coombe behind Davies

Li Williams behind Halfpenny at XV and North and Cuthbert on the wings

Ll Williams ok 2nd choice but due to lack of options really

by Shifty Sun 16 Jun 2013, 8:59 am

wayne wrote:Chris Rattue was right, only it is the WRU are the VILLAGE IDIOTS of world rugby, the sooner the Dodger and his cohorts left the better.

Why is it people can't resist posting comments like this.

Wales took a very young team or 3rd choice players to Japan, the decision was a huge gamble and was going to be inspired or a bad one. Because Wales lost the second game people are questioning it.

The only fair way to look at this is Wales have 15 players away with the Lions, which basically left them with a talent pool of:

15 Lee Bryne / Gavin Henson
14 Tom James / Harry Robinson
13 Ashley Beck / Scott Williams
12 Cory Allen / James Hook / Andrew Bishop
11 Aled Brew / Eli Walker
10 Dan Biggar / Ryhs Priestland
9 Dwayne Peel / Lloyd Williams / Tavis Knoyle
8 Ryan Jones / Morgan Allen / Andries Pretorius
7 Josh Navidi / Sam Lewis
6 James King / Aaron Shingler
5 Luke Charteris / Andrew Coombs
4 Olly Kohn / Bradley Davies
3 Craig Mitchell / Eifion Lewis-Roberts / Scott Andrews
2 Ken Owens / Matthew Rees /
1 Paul James / Rhys Gill / Ryan Bevington

The truth is Wales could of still taken the above tour party and won the series fairly easily but the coaches took a long term view and decided to take a look at some very, very young players in their teens or early 20's. Sharing a test series with Japan is a small price to pay if 4-5 of these players are helping Wales win the 6 Nations in 2-3 years. thumbsup

by aucklandlaurie Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:12 am

But in the meantime they will have to live down the fact that they played in , and were part of one of Wales' worst International rugby performances. Eddie Jones wont let them forget either.

by Shifty Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:30 am

Clearly there have been some huge errors in Robin McBryde's selection policy. Leaving Paul James, Ryan Jones, and James Hook at home was a massive mistake. We did lose Ken Owens, Scott Williams and Ashley Beck to injury, which wasn't helpful.

Paul James is a good player who is second choice behind Gethin Jenkins. Paul is 31, and would of been 33 by the next world cup so it's fair to say he could still be in the squad at that time.

Ryan Jones should of gone as captain, we missed him badly. He would of been an inspiration to the younger players.

Bearing in mind Wales lost 2 centers before the tour, it makes you wonder why James Hook wasn't called up. Unless there is much more to this dispute between Dan Biggar and James Hook than anyone realises, because it's noticeable they are never on the field together.

It is baffling to think Mcbryde could rate Rob McCusker above Morgan Allen and Ryan Jones. Or why he would think 27 year old Jonathan Spratt could suddenly become an international class player though, especially when he barely makes it into the Ospreys team!
Andrew Bishop is exactly the same age, so if you wanted a 27 year old center then you might as well of gone for him! As well as him having quite a few caps.

by Guest Sun 16 Jun 2013, 9:50 am

Shifty wrote:
wayne wrote:Chris Rattue was right, only it is the WRU are the VILLAGE IDIOTS of world rugby, the sooner the Dodger and his cohorts left the better.

Why is it people can't resist posting comments like this.

Wales took a very young team or 3rd choice players to Japan, the decision was a huge gamble and was going to be inspired or a bad one. Because Wales lost the second game people are questioning it.

The only fair way to look at this is Wales have 15 players away with the Lions, which basically left them with a talent pool of:

15 Lee Bryne / Gavin Henson
14 Tom James / Harry Robinson
13 Ashley Beck / Scott Williams
12 Cory Allen / James Hook / Andrew Bishop
11 Aled Brew / Eli Walker
10 Dan Biggar / Ryhs Priestland
9 Dwayne Peel / Lloyd Williams / Tavis Knoyle
8 Ryan Jones / Morgan Allen / Andries Pretorius
7 Josh Navidi / Sam Lewis
6 James King / Aaron Shingler
5 Luke Charteris / Andrew Coombs
4 Olly Kohn / Bradley Davies
3 Craig Mitchell / Eifion Lewis-Roberts / Scott Andrews
2 Ken Owens / Matthew Rees /
1 Paul James / Rhys Gill / Ryan Bevington

The truth is Wales could of still taken the above tour party and won the series fairly easily but the coaches took a long term view and decided to take a look at some very, very young players in their teens or early 20's. Sharing a test series with Japan is a small price to pay if 4-5 of these players are helping Wales win the 6 Nations in 2-3 years.

Should really include players like Dan, Lewis and Jon Evans. Also guys like Cudd and Sam Parry. Thought you watched the Dragons a bit too.

by Shifty Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:12 am

Risca Rev wrote:Should really include players like Dan, Lewis and Jon Evans. Also guys like Cudd and Sam Parry. Thought you watched the Dragons a bit too.

I was mainly making a point about older experienced players that had been left out. The others were just stocking fillers. Though those players would of been fine as well. Smile

by bedfordwelsh Sun 16 Jun 2013, 10:14 am

Lets please never ever mention Kohn in relation to a Welsh squad again, he shouldn't have been involved in the 6 Nations and made that much of an impression he wasn't even taken to Japan.

by wayne Sun 16 Jun 2013, 1:26 pm

Shifty, or Alun or whatever you are now going by Aucklandlawrie is absolutely spot on, we are the laughing stocks and will be because of this, same as Canada, Rumania or numerous other matches when we are down to 3rd, 4th, or even 5th choice selections, it should have been either a development tour or the best players available selected, over the 2 matches it should have been a 2-0 loss on the balance of play and yes you are right even some of the selections below the very best was weird, a few NGD players should have been selected.

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