Wales Tour of Japan

by Glas a du Tue Apr 30, 2013 3:29 pm

First topic message reminder :

I know there was a thread on this somewhere, but it's been swamped.

Wales Lions - likely replacements

Halfpenny - Liam Williams
Cuthbert - Walker, Robinson
Davies - Williams, Maule
Roberts - Beck, Hewitt
North - Owen Williams (gutted for Mike Poole)
Phillips - Aled Davies, Tavis Knoyle
Jenkins - Gill
Hibbard - Myhill
Jones - Mitchell
AW Jones - Lou Reed
Ian Evans - King, Kohn
Lydiate - Ieuan Jones
Warburton and Tipuric - Thomas
Faletau - Bearman

What do you think? Anybody else you'd like to see tour Japan?

Wales Training Squad:
Forwards: Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Rhys Gill (Saracens), Sam Hobbs (Blues), Ken Owens (Scarlets), Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Scott Andrews (Blues), Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Blues), Lou Reed (Blues), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), James King (Ospreys), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Rob McCusker (Scarlets), Andries Pretorius (Blues), Josh Navidi (Blues).
Backs: Lloyd Williams (Blues), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Aled Davis (Scarlets), Rhys Priestland (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Scott Williams (Scarlets), Ashley Beck (Ospreys), Owen Williams (Blues), Jonathan Spratt (Ospreys), Dafydd Howells (Ospreys), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Harry Robinson (Blues), Tom Prydie (Dragons), Steven Shingler (London Irish).

LATEST WRU PRESS RELEASE:

Wales Training Squad Update

Wales have called Cardiff Blues outside half Rhys Patchell and Newport Gwent Dragons hooker Sam Parry into their training squad for the tour of Japan but Scarlets fly-half Rhys Priestland has been ruled out of the tour.

Priestland aggravated his Achilles tendon in the warm-up of the Scarlets’ RaboDirect PRO12 semi-final on Friday evening and will miss the two-test tour.

Patchell, 19, who has scored 147 points in 22 appearances for the Blues this season and Haverfordwest born Parry, joined up with the training squad when they met for the first time this morning.

Ken Owens, Scott Williams and Liam Williams who picked up knocks in the defeat to Ulster, will continue to be monitored by the National Squad medical team.

Rhys PATCHELL (CARDIFF BLUES - Uncapped)
DoB: 17.05.93. 6’2” / 1.88m. 14st 13lbs / 95kgs
International record: Uncapped

Sam PARRY (NEWPORT GWENT DRAGONS - Uncapped)
DoB: 17.12.91. 6’1” / 1.86m. 16st 11lbs / 107kgs
International record: Uncapped.

Further update:

Scott Williams out. Will not be replaced in the squad.

Further update:

Ken Owens confirmed out, won't be replaced. 27 man squad TBA.

Cheers Munkian:

PRESS RELEASE FROM THE WELSH RUGBY UNION:
WALES ANNOUNCE JAPAN TOUR SQUAD

Cardiff Blues lock Bradley Davies will lead Wales in the forthcoming two-test tour of Japan.

The 26-year-old was named captain as Head Coach for the Japan tour Robin McBryde reduced his initial training squad down to a 27-man touring party.

The squad includes nine uncapped players including Ospreys duo Dafydd Howells and Dan Baker and Blues fly-half Rhys Patchell.

Props Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Scott Andrews (Blues) and Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs) who all featured for Wales in the 2013 RBS 6 Nations are joined by Saracens’ Rhys Gill and Rhodri Jones (Scarlets).

Uncapped pair Emyr Phillips (Scarlets) and Scott Baldwin (Ospreys) are named as hookers.

Davies returns to the squad after missing the Six Nations campaign due to injury and is named alongside Andrew Coombs (Dragons), Lou Reed (Blues) and James King (Ospreys).

Baker, 20, who featured 25 times for Swansea in the Principality Premiership this season, joins Scarlets duo Aaron Shingler and Rob McCusker and Blues captain Andries Pretorius.

Lloyd Williams (Blues) and Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets) are named at scrum-half alongside Dan Biggar (Ospreys) and Patchell at fly-half.

In the backline Ospreys trio Ashley Beck, Jonathan Spratt and 18-year-old Howells are joined by Blues duo Owen Williams and Harry Robinson, Liam Williams (Scarlets), Tom Prydie (Dragons) and Steven Shingler (London Irish).

Wales face Eddie Jones’ Japan in Osaka on June 8th and then in Tokyo on June 15th and McBryde has been impressed with his squad over the past ten days.

“We’ve had the training squad together for more than a week and we’ve been impressed,” said McBryde.

“They have really put the effort in and stepped up as we have asked them to. Everyone in the training squad put their hand up for selection making our jobs much harder.

“It’s a chance for these players now to experience the international test environment and put their marker down.
Wales Squad:

Forwards: Ryan Bevington (Ospreys), Rhys Gill (Saracens), Emyr Phillips (Scarlets), Scott Baldwin (Ospreys), Scott Andrews (Blues), Craig Mitchell (Exeter Chiefs), Rhodri Jones (Scarlets), Bradley Davies (Blues), Lou Reed (Blues), Andrew Coombs (Dragons), James King (Ospreys), Aaron Shingler (Scarlets), Dan Baker (Ospreys), Rob McCusker (Scarlets), Andries Pretorius (Blues).

Backs: Lloyd Williams (Blues), Tavis Knoyle (Scarlets), Dan Biggar (Ospreys), Rhys Patchell (Blues), Ashley Beck (Ospreys), Owen Williams (Blues), Jonathan Spratt (Ospreys), Dafydd Howells (Ospreys), Liam Williams (Scarlets), Harry Robinson (Blues), Tom Prydie (Dragons), Steven Shingler (London Irish).

by Guest Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:57 pm

I'm not being funny, but I'll never moan about Dragons players not being selected again. I'm delighted the Evans' etc weren't subjected to that guff. Yes 1-1 in games definitely flatters us.

by The Saint Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:22 pm

We come back from what could be considered a 'development tour' with a series draw and we're a laughing stock, how?
Though just to clarify, aside from the 15 players on Lions duty the following were either injured, unavailable and for no reason what so ever overlooked: Ryan Jones, Aaron Shingler, Lewis Evans (back row), Paul James (prop), Matthew Rees, Ken Owens (hooker), Lewis Evans, Gareth Davies (scrum half) Owen Williams, James Hook (outside half), Ashley Beck, Scott Williams (centre), Dan Evans, Adam Hughes, Eli Walker (back three). All of those players (who didn't pick up an injury) should have been taken because they're on form. But the selectors opted for guff like Pretourious, McCusker, Knoyle, Howells among others. So how are we not bordering on a third XV?
This is no excuse for losing to Japan though. There were too many errors and poor tackling. Japan played well, Eddie Jones is doing a good job.
And I'm quite surprised Biggar is avoiding criticism for his poor performance. Yesterday is another one of a few examples of why he isn't considered Wales' first choice 10. He's an average player with a good boot that can provide a good stop gap. Priestland (on form) and Patchell are our best options going forward. Patchell is probably a year off becoming a regular international.

by LeinsterFan4life Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:44 pm

Any highlights?

by glamorganalun Sun Jun 16, 2013 5:39 pm

The Saint wrote:We come back from what could be considered a 'development tour' with a series draw and we're a laughing stock, how?
Though just to clarify, aside from the 15 players on Lions duty the following were either injured, unavailable and for no reason what so ever overlooked: Ryan Jones, Aaron Shingler, Lewis Evans (back row), Paul James (prop), Matthew Rees, Ken Owens (hooker), Lewis Evans, Gareth Davies (scrum half) Owen Williams, James Hook (outside half), Ashley Beck, Scott Williams (centre), Dan Evans, Adam Hughes, Eli Walker (back three). All of those players (who didn't pick up an injury) should have been taken because they're on form. But the selectors opted for guff like Pretourious, McCusker, Knoyle, Howells among others. So how are we not bordering on a third XV?
This is no excuse for losing to Japan though. There were too many errors and poor tackling. Japan played well, Eddie Jones is doing a good job.
And I'm quite surprised Biggar is avoiding criticism for his poor performance. Yesterday is another one of a few examples of why he isn't considered Wales' first choice 10. He's an average player with a good boot that can provide a good stop gap. Priestland (on form) and Patchell are our best options going forward. Patchell is probably a year off becoming a regular international.

So Pratchell did not Butcher at least one try therefore it is Biggar's fault. The problem was our forwards were ponderous, it reminded me of the AI's where there were so many Blues players in the team. There is no way Wales 3rd's should lose to Japan even if they have 3 second rate imports in their team. McBryde /Gatland decided to make this a development tour, it should not have been a capped tour. The only decent performances came from Robinson, King and er that's it.

The first game was no better and were lucky to come out on top. I still can't work out why McBryde is part of the coaching team, the forwards were terrible.

by The Saint Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:01 pm

glamorganalun wrote:
The Saint wrote:We come back from what could be considered a 'development tour' with a series draw and we're a laughing stock, how?
Though just to clarify, aside from the 15 players on Lions duty the following were either injured, unavailable and for no reason what so ever overlooked: Ryan Jones, Aaron Shingler, Lewis Evans (back row), Paul James (prop), Matthew Rees, Ken Owens (hooker), Lewis Evans, Gareth Davies (scrum half) Owen Williams, James Hook (outside half), Ashley Beck, Scott Williams (centre), Dan Evans, Adam Hughes, Eli Walker (back three). All of those players (who didn't pick up an injury) should have been taken because they're on form. But the selectors opted for guff like Pretourious, McCusker, Knoyle, Howells among others. So how are we not bordering on a third XV?
This is no excuse for losing to Japan though. There were too many errors and poor tackling. Japan played well, Eddie Jones is doing a good job.
And I'm quite surprised Biggar is avoiding criticism for his poor performance. Yesterday is another one of a few examples of why he isn't considered Wales' first choice 10. He's an average player with a good boot that can provide a good stop gap. Priestland (on form) and Patchell are our best options going forward. Patchell is probably a year off becoming a regular international.

So Pratchell did not Butcher at least one try therefore it is Biggar's fault. The problem was our forwards were ponderous, it reminded me of the AI's where there were so many Blues players in the team. There is no way Wales 3rd's should lose to Japan even if they have 3 second rate imports in their team. McBryde /Gatland decided to make this a development tour, it should not have been a capped tour. The only decent performances came from Robinson, King and er that's it.

The first game was no better and were lucky to come out on top. I still can't work out why McBryde is part of the coaching team, the forwards were terrible.

No idea what you're talking about at the bolded part.
I agree with you on McBryde. No idea why him and Howley were put straight into the Wales management/coaching team, and yeah perhaps it should have officially been a development tour. I would also say that Liam Williams, Harry Robinson, Emyr Phillips, Bradley Davies, Scott Andrews and Lloyd Williams are the ones who put in decent performances; 4 of them are Blues players.

by ScarletSpiderman Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:31 pm

Would they have got as much cash from Japan if it was officially a development tour?

by glamorganalun Sun Jun 16, 2013 10:04 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Would they have got as much cash from Japan if it was officially a development tour?

You are probably correct, our friend Roger is doing his bit and getting involved with politics on tour meeting up with business leaders etc. in readiness for when he goes into politics. I will not vote for him, he is too much like Thatcher in drag.

by maestegmafia Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:08 pm

glamorganalun wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Would they have got as much cash from Japan if it was officially a development tour?

You are probably correct, our friend Roger is doing his bit and getting involved with politics on tour meeting up with business leaders etc. in readiness for when he goes into politics. I will not vote for him, he is too much like Thatcher in drag.

But Roger is a callous man, how can he be like Thatcher in Drag...?

by **Rugby Fan** Sun Jun 16, 2013 11:20 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Would they have got as much cash from Japan if it was officially a development tour?

Wales wouldn't have been invited if they only wanted a development tour. Italy were prepared to offer full internationals.

by blackcanelion Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:51 am

I think a loss is a loss. It's an IRB santioned test. I think ranking points are on it. The caveat is that it's a very weakened Welsh side, I don't think anyone would dispute that a full strength Welsh side would probably have won. Hoeever, japan get to say they have beaten Wales. That's how cookie crumbles. When it's our team that wins we forget the composition of the opposition. We do tend to remember when our sides were weak. Scotland won in Australia last year. It stands in the record books. England's tour down under in around 98, it still counts as losses. NZ's losses toEngland in 83, 93 and 2002 no one remembers that the teams were understrength. The Argentinians and Island teams very play at or near full strength.We could go on about everyone.

So congratulations to Japan, but it doesn't really say anything about the top Welsh side.

by Guest Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:17 am

But from a Welsh point of view, Blackcanelion, it does say something about our management, and like you say it is the result that will be remembered. That's why a lot of us are so annoyed. We as fans have to suffer what our national coaches do, the choices they make. Of course all fans have to suffer that, but I don't think you'd find another nation doing this. Take NZ for instance - yes, they may send out a few development players but they'd make sure that it's a team that would still wipe the floor with Japan. They wouldn't risk the loss and all of the negative baggage that goes with it such as the drop in confidence, reaction back home, the media, fans, etc. In Wales the management seem Teflon coated - nothing sticks. No one will be reprimanded for this and it will be swept under the carpet. It just stinks IMO.

We now have to suffer the laughs and jokes of other nations, and that hurts! This could have been avoided. That wasn't the best team we could have put out. There were players simply rested, and I think this is where a lot of fans are peeved - not peeved at Japan or the loss itself as they were worthy winners. It is the fact that we would probably have won if we'd taken a half decent side instead of one with players so new to international rugby. However, the really annoying thing is that we never learn. Instead of putting a sprinkling of inexperienced players in we think it's OK to chuck a load in at once. Everyone knows that a Baa Baas type side chucked together always struggles against an established team. Yet we do this all of the time. We did it against Fiji a couple of years ago and drew at home - it took players like Biggar years to overcome that as he was held partly to blame.

For me, players do need to be 'blooded' but it should be a gradual process. We try to do it like a factory production line. Get them in the jersey and they're bound to be international standard now because they've played international rugby. International rugby should be about showcasing the best the country has to offer and trying to build a legacy and history around success - the All Blacks are so revered because they have so many 'unbeaten' records against other nations. Sporting success leads to so many other things too - it's at the heart of prosperity, tourism, inward investment, immigration, etc. To just surrender records and history and legacy for the sake of giving some kids their debut is just not sporting IMO. It's sort of anti-sport - it's disrespectful to the opposition and disrespectful to those who've worked so hard in the past to maintain winning streaks and unbeaten records.

by Allty Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:24 am

An A team is the way forward

Any views on why we do not have any depth in our player pool? Very Happy

by aucklandlaurie Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:29 am

Griff

Ive read the above and I cant help but wonder: Why those players (Irelevant whether they be 2nd, 3rd, 4th ranked) didnt just take this one in a life time opportunity and play their first test for wales as if their lives depended on it, Beaten japan, and grabbed that red jersey so that noone could take it off them for the next test?

by Guest Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:06 am

Laurie, because they weren't good enough to do that. And that's why some of them shouldn't have been included. I'm not saying our seconds would have done better than our 3rds/4ths - sport is never that predictable. But for me we devalue the jersey selecting players who might be good one day and have only shown promise at semi pro level. For me, those players haven't earned the jersey. I'm just against giving away cheap caps. This is not a comment about ages - if someone is tearing it up at 19 then they've earned it. But some of these who played Japan are simply not pushing the top 32 or so players (the extended squad) so I don't think they should be given international honours (yet).

by aucklandlaurie Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:23 am

Hell Griff when you put it like that you guys must be absolutely furious., and your right if they are at that level they should be nowhere near a "Red Jersey". and you are right to liken it to devaluation. No one can ever be selected on the basis that they "Might be good one day" they have to out[play those ahead 0f them and earn the jersey.

This situation also tells me that the coaching staff werent approaching this game with a game plan (a monkey on a rock could devise a game plan against Japan) a game plan requiring specific selections and specific training/drills/preparation to execute such game plan, this is totally unacceptable for a rugby country like Wales and this should never be allowed to happen again.

by Guest Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:52 am

Laurie, I can't tell whether you're being sarcastic as I know we've had a few heated debates in the past and you love nothing more than putting the boot into Wales (easy target the way we carry on)! But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. The problem is that in Gatland's absence we allow coaches to 'step up'. This means that they're bullet proof - they can't get sacked as they're just filling in. The buck is always passed and/or put down to a 'learning experience'.

We know we haven't got much depth - this is proven time and time again when a handful of front line players are missing. This is why it is so frustrating that we've taken this approach in the Japan series when we are missing 14 first choice players to Lions, a large number of players to injury, and a number of remaining 1st/2nd choice players are given a holiday - it's obvious that 4th choice players will struggle when our 2nd choice players usually struggle too!

by aucklandlaurie Mon Jun 17, 2013 10:57 am

Griff, I am being more than genuine as I honestly think that whats happened here is terrible. put it this way if this happened with the ABs us Kiwis would be so furious that we wouldnt be able to stand up lat alone know what to do about it.

It was only on reading your post at 8.17 that I really appreciated what had occurred.

by Guest Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:05 am

Cheers Laurie. Sorry for the accusation! And I'm glad to see a Kiwi supporter voicing their concern and saying what would happen in NZ as that has been part of my point - I've said in the past that if we want to be up there with the best in the world then we need to emulate the best, take a leaf out of their book. You'd never catch the ABs or SA putting out such weak sides and copping a loss. Their media and fans would go nuclear on them, like you say. It undoes all of the good work of the previous coaches and players and destroys legacies, history, etc. The ABs wouldn't risk that because they know how important maintaining standards is to the All Black name. I just wish we would be equally as protective of our rugby heritage and name Sad

by offload Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:09 am

aucklandlaurie wrote: This situation also tells me that the coaching staff werent approaching this game with a game plan (a monkey on a rock could devise a game plan against Japan) a game plan requiring specific selections and specific training/drills/preparation to execute such game plan, this is totally unacceptable for a rugby country like Wales and this should never be allowed to happen again.

I haven't been able to comment yet on these two games as I've been too angry. Laurie I think you are spot on here. We were very lucky in the first match and were outplayed in every facet of the game on Saturday. There were kids on that field that should be no where near a full Welsh shirt. I'm old school - I believe the shirt has huge obligations and for someone like me (only good enough to dream of wearing one) it's embarrassing to see it thrown around.

by offload Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:11 am

Griff wrote:Cheers Laurie. Sorry for the accusation! And I'm glad to see a Kiwi supporter voicing their concern and saying what would happen in NZ as that has been part of my point - I've said in the past that if we want to be up there with the best in the world then we need to emulate the best, take a leaf out of their book. You'd never catch the ABs or SA putting out such weak sides and copping a loss. Their media and fans would go nuclear on them, like you say. It undoes all of the good work of the previous coaches and players and destroys legacies, history, etc. The ABs wouldn't risk that because they know how important maintaining standards is to the All Black name. I just wish we would be equally as protective of our rugby heritage and name

Well said Griff

by aucklandlaurie Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:11 am

We also wouldnt let Australian and South African players play in a combined team coached by Steve Hansen and see how he operates. a lot of this can be laid on Gatty for going off to coach the Lions.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:32 am

Griff,

I think you have summed up how we are all feeling right now very eloquently and hit the nail right on the head.

Like you say we see it every year in the AIs when we play such an in-experienced team in the Friday night game, hell we even done it in the 6 Nations a few seasons back agaisnt Italy.

Again as you said and without an A side we have to blood some of these guys BUT not a whole blyddi team of the them (or near as damn it).

James, Rees, Byrne, Hook, R Jones even Delve shouldhave all been involved in this tour for their experience, whilst sport is unpredictable, thats why we all love it you can't tell me that a team something like this :

James, Rees, Andrews
Davies, Coombs
R Jones, Delve, Navidi

Knoyle, Biggar

Prydie, Hook, Spratt, Li Williams

Byrne

Wouldn't have won the series 2-0.

by munkian Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:35 am

Less Blues and Turks, more Dragons.

Mcusker and Pretorious shouldn't even be near a Welsh jersey.

by XR Mon Jun 17, 2013 11:50 am

I dislike the "we will learn from this" mantra that Brad & mcbryde seem to be subscribing too. If you wanted to learn, then make this an 'A' team style game with no caps and treat it like it should have been - a development game. A full international game isn't for 'learning' it's for winning, from the start this tour has shown a severe lack of respect to a reasonably good Japanese side. They thought they could turn up with an understrength, novice squad and turn over an immensely proud team in their own back yard.

But staying with the 'learning' mantra, i think we've all learnt that McBryde isn't capable of being the top man in charge. From 4 second rows in the pack in the first game to no apparent game plan or structure in the second. I bet edwards was sitting next to him wondering why he wasn't given the chance to be in charge? McBryde got the nod simply because he's welsh, not because he's best.

by Luckless Pedestrian Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:11 pm

gcBlues wrote:I dislike the "we will learn from this" mantra that Brad & mcbryde seem to be subscribing too. If you wanted to learn, then make this an 'A' team style game with no caps and treat it like it should have been - a development game. A full international game isn't for 'learning' it's for winning, from the start this tour has shown a severe lack of respect to a reasonably good Japanese side. They thought they could turn up with an understrength, novice squad and turn over an immensely proud team in their own back yard.

Absolutely right.

by wales606 Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:32 pm

I will be amazed and furious if Spratt or McCusker ever get another cap for Wales.

Spratt shouldn't have been near the tour in the first place

by bedfordwelsh Mon Jun 17, 2013 12:37 pm

606,

With the likes of Roberts and JD away in Oz, Williams and Beck injured, Hook rested then I not got a problem with Spratt being given a shot, as should have Adam Hughes but chucking them all together like that was as it proved so wrong.

by wales606 Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:08 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:606,

With the likes of Roberts and JD away in Oz, Williams and Beck injured, Hook rested then I not got a problem with Spratt being given a shot, as should have Adam Hughes but chucking them all together like that was as it proved so wrong.

Don't rate Spratt at all, Bishop, Maule, Warren or Hughes would have been better. To be honest I would have rather had Hewitt, Smith, Evans or Issacs.

by sirBiggles Mon Jun 17, 2013 1:10 pm

I'm pleased for Japan, they deserved the win, and if honest, probably deserved to win the 1st game.

However, I'm very annoyed with the complacent approach taken by the team and coaches (Welsh that is) with this tour. I have no problem in awarding test caps, as it shows respect to Japan. But at least keep that respect going, by fielding a team, not a group of player who looked clueless.

by Dontheman Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:02 pm

Ok so it was a development tour in all but name. So? Taking on a well organised battle hardened team in their own backyard at 30+ degrees. And by sheer guts and determination drawing a closely fought series. Whilst their big brothers were away in Oz. I am proud of them. I hope all these gloomy b*ggers on here brighten up when the Boks come calling in November and we'll really have something to play for and the firepower to do it

by wales606 Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:18 pm

Dontheman wrote:Ok so it was a development tour in all but name. So? Taking on a well organised battle hardened team in their own backyard at 30+ degrees. And by sheer guts and determination drawing a closely fought series. Whilst their big brothers were away in Oz. I am proud of them. I hope all these gloomy b*ggers on here brighten up when the Boks come calling in November and we'll really have something to play for and the firepower to do it

Can't wait for the Boks game,

Surely this year we can do it!

I said that last year though,

and the year before,

and the year before,

and the year before,

and the year before.

But this time it is for definite,

Right?
...
...
...
Right!?
...
...
RIGHT!

by bedfordwelsh Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:34 pm

The record books will not show this as a development tour in all bar name, it will show it as a Welsh side that lost to Japan plain and simple

by maestegmafia Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:39 pm

There are plenty of young lads who are showing promise on this tour and at the JWC.

Shame to lose the seconded test. We didn't deserve to win it. But as Davies said, the players and CIA he's will have learnt a lot about the squad and what's expected.

by The Saint Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:38 pm

What do you think they've learnt. Have they finally learnt that McCusker and Spratt are not international quality. To be fair to Pretorious he was working hard in that 2nd test, but he shouldn't be near the squad in the future.

by RubyGuby Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:49 pm

You learn nothing when you put a bunch of misfits and kids together against a committed and organised side- You actually learn when you slot them into strong teams so they become accustomed to that level of playing. I thought we'd learned this lesson before but once again we show shambolic management from the welsh. It frustrates me but I have gotten used to it. When you've been in the NHS for 25 years I guess you become accustomed to poor planning and dire management. And who in his right mind considers Bradley Davies to be Captain material - insane decision. thumbsup

by international197 Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:58 pm

The reason Wales couldn't select their strongest side is because 15 players were with the Lions, a lot of younger players are in France in the JWC and other players have a sevens world cup this month. Matthew Rees, Lee Byrne and Ryan Jones are old and I think they needed to be rested to help them make it to the 2015 RWC. I doubt Gareth Delve would be allowed to be released by the Melbourne Rebels in the middle of their season and James Hook had Barbarian commitments. Rhys Preistland, Ken Owens and Aaron Shingler are injured. Nobody can blame anyone for them being injured. Robin McBryde selected the strongest team available, and they proved that in the first test. Wales didn't lose the second test because they were weak, they lost it because Japan were strong.

Whoever organised a tour to Japan in the middle of a Lions tour, a JWC and two Babarian test matches is responsible for Wales' second test loss in Japan, not the coaches, the players or anyone else.

by ScarletSpiderman Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:42 pm

To be honest we took a bunch of players that individually are not too bad, and arguably superior to the Japanese players they were against, but they didn't manage to function as a team. We really missed a general in the midfield defensively and in hindsight, and I hate saying it, the orange one could have helped.

by international197 Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:26 pm

The orange one is getting old as well, I believe he probably needs to be rested now and again if he's to make it to the 2015 RWC in one piece. Could be a tough, physical season for him in the GP in 2013/2014. I doubt Bath will rest him for the benefit of Wales next season.

by HammerofThunor Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:30 pm

RubyGuby wrote:You learn nothing when you put a bunch of misfits and kids together against a committed and organised side- You actually learn when you slot them into strong teams so they become accustomed to that level of playing. I thought we'd learned this lesson before but once again we show shambolic management from the welsh. It frustrates me but I have gotten used to it. When you've been in the NHS for 25 years I guess you become accustomed to poor planning and dire management. And who in his right mind considers Bradley Davies to be Captain material - insane decision.

+1 A few more experienced players would have held that team together a bit more and allowed the new guys to shine.

by Dontheman Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:35 pm

international197 wrote:The reason Wales couldn't select their strongest side is because 15 players were with the Lions, a lot of younger players are in France in the JWC and other players have a sevens world cup this month. Matthew Rees, Lee Byrne and Ryan Jones are old and I think they needed to be rested to help them make it to the 2015 RWC. I doubt Gareth Delve would be allowed to be released by the Melbourne Rebels in the middle of their season and James Hook had Barbarian commitments. Rhys Preistland, Ken Owens and Aaron Shingler are injured. Nobody can blame anyone for them being injured. Robin McBryde selected the strongest team available, and they proved that in the first test. Wales didn't lose the second test because they were weak, they lost it because Japan were strong.

Whoever organised a tour to Japan in the middle of a Lions tour, a JWC and two Babarian test matches is responsible for Wales' second test loss in Japan, not the coaches, the players or anyone else.

Hear hear.

by glamorganalun Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:39 pm

bedfordwelsh wrote:Griff,

I think you have summed up how we are all feeling right now very eloquently and hit the nail right on the head.

Like you say we see it every year in the AIs when we play such an in-experienced team in the Friday night game, hell we even done it in the 6 Nations a few seasons back agaisnt Italy.

Again as you said and without an A side we have to blood some of these guys BUT not a whole blyddi team of the them (or near as damn it).

James, Rees, Byrne, Hook, R Jones even Delve shouldhave all been involved in this tour for their experience, whilst sport is unpredictable, thats why we all love it you can't tell me that a team something like this :

James, Rees, Andrews
Davies, Coombs
R Jones, Delve, Navidi

Knoyle, Biggar

Prydie, Hook, Spratt, Li Williams

Byrne

Wouldn't have won the series 2-0.

I agree with the sensible debates above, I agree the above team would put Japan away with no problems in fact watching Pontypridd at the end of the season they would also put Japan away. The team picked on Sat showed a lack of composure, experience and leadership, the coach should be the fall guy if he and not Gatland decided on the squad. I heard McBryde does nothing without Gatland's say so.

Bedford I see your team included Prydie, I thought he was terrible, he looks in a dream to me.

by Guest Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:43 pm

Dontheman wrote:
international197 wrote:The reason Wales couldn't select their strongest side is because 15 players were with the Lions, a lot of younger players are in France in the JWC and other players have a sevens world cup this month. Matthew Rees, Lee Byrne and Ryan Jones are old and I think they needed to be rested to help them make it to the 2015 RWC. I doubt Gareth Delve would be allowed to be released by the Melbourne Rebels in the middle of their season and James Hook had Barbarian commitments. Rhys Preistland, Ken Owens and Aaron Shingler are injured. Nobody can blame anyone for them being injured. Robin McBryde selected the strongest team available, and they proved that in the first test. Wales didn't lose the second test because they were weak, they lost it because Japan were strong.

Whoever organised a tour to Japan in the middle of a Lions tour, a JWC and two Babarian test matches is responsible for Wales' second test loss in Japan, not the coaches, the players or anyone else.
Hear hear.

Lee Byrne and Matthew Rees don't tend to feature in Welsh 23s now, so they don't need much resting. It wouldn't have hurt them to go on this tour. I know Ryan Jones was very keen to go, so I doubt he is thankful for the rest. Hook probably wouldn't have had Barbarians commitments if he was selected for Wales. Usually these tours during the Lions tours work out well for us (eg the last tour to North America in 2009), because we supplement a few upcoming players with available quality (like Ryan Jones in 09).

McBryde did not select the strongest available team, as there were plenty of better options available, even without Ryan Jones etc.

by international197 Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:47 pm

Paul James, Duncan Jones, Matthew Rees and Dwayne Peel had Barbarian commitments as well*.

*http://www.barbarianfc.co.uk/news/552/barbarians-complete-squad-for-summer-tour/

by ScarletSpiderman Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:49 pm

Risca to be fair had Ken, Priestland, Beck and Scott Williams not been injured then they would have provided a backbone to the squad. Maybe Smiler, Hook and Bishop would have been better call ups.

by Guest Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:52 pm

I feel sorry for the likes of Paul James. Constantly over looked for the 'more mobile' Gethin Jenkins at LH or asked to bench cover for Adam Jones at TH, he finally gets a chance to be the man in the scrum, the pack leader if you will, but no he's told to stay at home and rest! He's 31, has been playing for Wales since 2003, yet only has 45 caps. Jamie Roberts at only 26 has more caps already and has been playing only since 2008!

I bet Paul James would have loved to tour. That's the sort of honour that top performances should be rewarded with, not being rested like some old dog. All other top pros manage to make it away for summer tours. James would have gone on the Lions tour if called up. A trip to Japan wouldn't have killed him.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:53 pm

glamorganalun wrote:
bedfordwelsh wrote:Griff,

I think you have summed up how we are all feeling right now very eloquently and hit the nail right on the head.

Like you say we see it every year in the AIs when we play such an in-experienced team in the Friday night game, hell we even done it in the 6 Nations a few seasons back agaisnt Italy.

Again as you said and without an A side we have to blood some of these guys BUT not a whole blyddi team of the them (or near as damn it).

James, Rees, Byrne, Hook, R Jones even Delve shouldhave all been involved in this tour for their experience, whilst sport is unpredictable, thats why we all love it you can't tell me that a team something like this :

James, Rees, Andrews
Davies, Coombs
R Jones, Delve, Navidi

Knoyle, Biggar

Prydie, Hook, Spratt, Li Williams

Byrne

Wouldn't have won the series 2-0.

I agree with the sensible debates above, I agree the above team would put Japan away with no problems in fact watching Pontypridd at the end of the season they would also put Japan away. The team picked on Sat showed a lack of composure, experience and leadership, the coach should be the fall guy if he and not Gatland decided on the squad. I heard McBryde does nothing without Gatland's say so.

Bedford I see your team included Prydie, I thought he was terrible, he looks in a dream to me.

Yeah not the best choice I guess Robinson may have been better choice but you get the gist, a few in experienced in with old heads would have worked

by Guest Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:55 pm

international197 wrote:Paul James, Duncan Jones, Matthew Rees and Dwayne Peel had Barbarian commitments as well*.

*http://www.barbarianfc.co.uk/news/552/barbarians-complete-squad-for-summer-tour/

The Barbarians ended on the 1st of June in Hong Kong. Wales played Japan on the 8th, just down the road in Japan. Baa Baas players could easily have linked up with the squad and trained for almost a week ahead of the first test. Not a good enough reason IMO.

by glamorganalun Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:57 pm

Risca:

You are spot on when you say some/all the experienced "rested" players wanted to go with Wales as they get more cap's, they get paid and not many if any of those players have played in Japan. Also the players did not get much of a rest at they returned to their clubs two week ago! I know which option I would prefer.

by bedfordwelsh Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:03 pm

If the WRU are looking for excuses then I don't think they have many as most of the options suggested were viable, it would be a bit more (only a little) bearable if McBryde and Co came out and admitted they got it wrong.

by Guest Mon Jun 17, 2013 9:04 pm

glamorganalun wrote:Risca:

You are spot on when you say some/all the experienced "rested" players wanted to go with Wales as they get more cap's, they get paid and not many if any of those players have played in Japan. Also the players did not get much of a rest at they returned to their clubs two week ago! I know which option I would prefer.

Plus of course they would have earned their caps by playing well all season, unlike some of the players we saw get capped out there.

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