England VS Scotland Discussion

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Quite looking forward to this game, anyone know what sort of attendance is expected? I reckon could be closer than people think. A few of my English mates reckon 4-0 or 5-0 wins but just don't think that'll happen tbh, hopefully I'm not wrong! Wish game culd have been at Hampden so there would have been cracking atmosphere but I'm hoping Wembley surprises me although I'm not expecting it. I hope to see Bridcutt play, not seen too much of him but impressed by limited amount I've seen. And I hope Rooney plays too.

Cracking header that. As a Scot nice to see us playing with a bit of pride again.

ft 3-2 England

A cracking game with a cracking atmosphere. Scotland can be pleased with the spirit and performance though we still have much to work on. As for England well they won in the end but know they also have much work to do.

Well I rather enjoyed that. I'm sure for Lambert it was an absolute dream. Welbeck stuck 2 fingers up to his critics. Tactics were once again spot on by England's gaffer. A pleasing amount of depth was confirmed for the England team in this game.

England will be there or there abouts in Brazil next year. This game won't show you that of course; it's a pre-season friendly, but that was a good a display as you're ever likely to see from England in a friendly. Plenty of positives to build on for the qualifiers - can't wait!

I'll take that very much as a tongue-in-cheek remark Duty281. A narrow home win against a Scotland side almost at an all-time low confidence/self-belief wise so if you are to feature in Brazil then surely you should be expecting a 3-0 or 4-0 win?

I missed the second half, but the first half performance was absolutely dire. A lot of work to be done for England, Cleverleylooked really poor.

Nice to see Lambert get the goal.

CaledonianCraig wrote:I'll take that very much as a tongue-in-cheek remark Duty281.

That's not tongue in cheek. Duty believes.

Jimmy Morrison was superb tonight. Would have got in the England midfield with a display like that.

Thought Welbeck played well, hopefully he can recreate his club form from a season or two back this season. Happy for Lambert to get the goal, hopefully he'll carry on scoring at Saints and come into the proper squad for qualifiers. Gary Cahill was absolutely dire tonight, and quite frankly I do not rate him as a defender in the slightest

CaledonianCraig wrote:I'll take that very much as a tongue-in-cheek remark Duty281. A narrow home win against a Scotland side almost at an all-time low confidence/self-belief wise so if you are to feature in Brazil then surely you should be expecting a 3-0 or 4-0 win?

Not tongue in cheek lad.

Germany drew 3 all with Paraguay tonight, are you going to write off their hopes?
Brazil lost 1 nil to Switzerland, does the same apply to them?

Fact is, this friendly has close to zero percent relevance to what will happen next summer for England. And the same goes to Germany and Brazil tonight.

Happy with the Scotland performance, things definitely looking up. Fans done us proud once again, can't wait til I'm back at Hampden next month. Disappointed to concede two headers though and Walker should have walked! Wilshere impressed me in first half and can't fault King Kenny today, cracking finish

Duty...

Paraguay will be in Brazil so are a really decent side.

Switzerland may very well be there as well .

Scotland are already out and are battling to avoid finishing bottom of our group. Does that waken you up?

Besides Germany and Brazil are proven recent winners whereas England are not.

See, I thought Welbeck and Cleverley looked good. Cleverley's pass to Walcott being arguably the best quality piece of football on show all evening.

Honest assessment - England looked rusty but were pretty much all over Scotland, who got a daft goal and a really good finish but didnt create a lot else. Their drive was probably full of a little more determination than England, but England kept generally to a quite nice progressive style whilst converting very well from the set pieces. 

Got younger players, rusty ones, with a slightly better style being slowly implemented.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:See, I thought Welbeck and Cleverley looked good. Cleverley's pass to Walcott being arguably the best quality piece of football on show all evening.

To be honest I'd expect most Premier League standard midfielders to make that pass, for someone of Walcott's pace to run onto.

Welbeck was good, best I've seen him play for a long time. One of the few that does seem to play well for England

CaledonianCraig wrote:Duty...

Paraguay will be in Brazil so are a really decent side.

Switzerland may very well be there as well .

Scotland are already out and are battling to avoid finishing bottom of our group. Does that waken you up?

Besides Germany and Brazil are proven recent winners whereas England are not.

So beating Scotland is worse than losing to Switzerland?

Not quite sure I follow, in truth.

Judge England on their aspirations in Brazil after the first group game in June, will probably be a better indicator at any rate.

Olly wrote:

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:See, I thought Welbeck and Cleverley looked good. Cleverley's pass to Walcott being arguably the best quality piece of football on show all evening.

To be honest I'd expect most Premier League standard midfielders to make that pass, for someone of Walcott's pace to run onto.

Welbeck was good, best I've seen him play for a long time. One of the few that does seem to play well for England

I dunno it was pretty sharp to be fair Olly.

Yes I'd say (if you look at rankings) it certainly is. Switzerland are ranked way above us and look certain to qualify for Brazil whereas we are already out and our goal is to try to scramble up to finish third in our group. Now do you follow?

This Scotland side as well has been at its lowest ebb of late (though we may be turning the corner) so surely you'd expect more from England considering how bolshe many England fans were about how easy this was going to be?

I like Duty's optimism, not point in being too downhearted. We're not expecting to win the World Cup, but who's to say we couldn't pull up a surprises along the way? Nothing wrong with it

CaledonianCraig wrote:Yes I'd say (if you look at rankings) it certainly is. Switzerland are ranked way above us and look certain to qualify for Brazil whereas we are already out and our goal is to try to scramble up to finish third in our group. Now do you follow?

This Scotland side as well has been at its lowest ebb of late (though we may be turning the corner) so surely you'd expect more from England considering how bolshe many England fans were about how easy this was going to be?

I'll say this very simply: it was a pre-season friendly with no relevance whatsoever. For England, it was about giving Wilshere some minutes, and giving the players another chance to play the 4-3-3 system. Anything else, Welbeck playing above his usual self or Lambert scoring on debut, was a bonus.

This game has no bearing on how England will do in the remaining 4 qualifiers.

I mean, Spain lost a friendly to Costa Rica a year or so before winning Euro 2012. That didn't matter did it?

On the formation, I like it from Hodgson. Needed more movement tonight I felt (The U21's were much better movement wise last night), but certainly a good basis to work off. Also allows our FB's who like to get forward, to get forward

Olly wrote:I like Duty's optimism, not point in being too downhearted. We're not expecting to win the World Cup, but who's to say we couldn't pull up a surprises along the way? Nothing wrong with it

I'd say if England got to the last 4, that would be a fine achievement. And with the right players getting into form, England could pull off a great victory. England have good depth, and have decent PL players in every position, with a select few who can be world-class on their day. England are supremely well-organised, and very difficult to beat (Germany 2010 being the exception). The thing with tournament football is momentum plays a big part, and if England click early on, and some players hit form, they could very well win the whole thing.

The point is though that we know what Germany, Brazil and Spain can and often do in major tournaments....they win them so friendly results of theirs bears no real significance as you know they will be right up there as chief contenders next summer. For England the same can't be said. The thing is we have heard how poor Scottish football is so surely England should have taken us apart and won far more convincingly? Something is wrong. Either Scottish football isn't as poor as it is made out or England aren't as good as are made out? Or is it a bit of both?

Cracking game of football, however i think England should be slightly embarrassed. If were suppose to be this amazing side, conceding 2 against a team like Scotland is very poor IMO and we only just won the match.

Fantastic moment for a true Englishman in Rikkie Lambert, great header by him, think everyone dreams of that moment, don't think anyone can deny there slightly jealous of him! Well my twitter feed seemed to all agree that!

Some players who were very poor tonight, Kyle Walker, Joe Hart, Gary Cahill, Theo Walcott (good goal though) and Tom Cleverly (i just don't think he is good enough to play in that hole)

CaledonianCraig wrote:The point is though that we know what Germany, Brazil and Spain can and often do in major tournaments....they win them so friendly results of theirs bears no real significance as you know they will be right up there as chief contenders next summer. For England the same can't be said. The thing is we have heard how poor Scottish football is so surely England should have taken us apart and won far more convincingly? Something is wrong. Either Scottish football isn't as poor as it is made out or England aren't as good as are made out? Or is it a bit of both?

England will be judged on the next 4 games, not this one, as they should be.

Very few will remember this game when the world cup starts.

But on the evidence of this one you have a lot of work to do. That must be clear considering Scotland are possibly at their lowest ebb (though climbing out of it) and you only won 3-2. Our problem has been lack of goals yet we bagged two against you so defence needs work for a start.

Looking at this honestly, England had a far stronger squad a few years ago and still couldn't win majors so what has changed?

CaledonianCraig wrote:But on the evidence of this one you have a lot of work to do. That must be clear considering Scotland are possibly at their lowest ebb (though climbing out of it) and you only won 3-2. Our problem has been lack of goals yet we bagged two against you so defence needs work for a start.

Looking at this honestly, England had a far stronger squad a few years ago and still couldn't win majors so what has changed?

We have a better manager. Dear me, 2010 was horrible. Gerrard on the left, Barry down the middle, Johnson was a poor defender then, no Walcott, Heskey up front. *Shudder*

The golden generation of 02, 04, 06 was rather unlucky, particulary in 04.

Simply put, we're more experienced and have greater depth than in 2010, and the team is more cohesive and balanced than during the golden generation years.

This is the best England team in a while, the best England team in many a long day.

If it is such a great team why are you so immersed in a worrying scrap to qualify when teams of two, four, six years ago qualified more comfortably? That is why I don't buy it plus surely such a great side should have blown away a Scotland side at a low ebb far more comprehensively?

CaledonianCraig wrote:If it is such a great team why are you so immersed in a worrying scrap to qualify when teams of two, four, six years ago qualified more comfortably? That is why I don't buy it plus surely such a great side should have blown away a Scotland side at a low ebb far more comprehensively?

Italy barely qualified for 2006, before going on to win the whole thing.

I've never said we're a great side. We're a decent, well-organised side, with world-class players in a couple of positions. And that was enough for Italy to reach last years final, and for Holland to reach the last world cup final.

How can I put this?

Italy, Holland, Spain, Germany and Brazil have proven records for winning or going very close in majors for many years now whereas England don't. Tonight either Scotland proved they deserve more credit than is given or England are some way short of challenging to win the World Cup IF they qualify. Must surely be one or the other?

I repeat, sir, you will not be able to judge how England will do in 10 months time on a friendly played before the season has begun. Very rarely do teams get hammered in international friendlies anyway.

CaledonianCraig wrote:How can I put this?

Italy, Holland, Spain, Germany and Brazil have proven records for winning or going very close in majors for many years now whereas England don't. Tonight either Scotland proved they deserve more credit than is given or England are some way short of challenging to win the World Cup IF they qualify. Must surely be one or the other?

Spain have only been good since 2008 and holland had a good wc in 2010 and failed t qualify for euro 04 and they didnt even qualify from their group in euro 12.

No but you can judge a lot of things.

You had a strong side out tonight yet leaked two goals against us. I struggle to recall the last World Cup contenders we scored two goals against in a match.

Unlike other contenders you are not in any control of your qualifying campaign so that tells me you aren't a cut above the teams in your group.

They are all signs that point to you not being as good/consistent as you need to be to be in contention to win the World Cup.

Spain have been more than just good since 2008 to be fair and before that they were always there or thereabouts. True Holland missed out in one campaign but were World Cup runners-up as well in recent times.

CaledonianCraig wrote:Spain have been more than just good since 2008 to be fair and before that they were always there or thereabouts. True Holland missed out in one campaign but were World Cup runners-up as well in recent times.

But in modern football apart from the wc final, holland have had about the same amount of success as england.

Also Spain have done nothing in modern football until 5 years ago.

Last 10 years for holland

World cup 2002- holland did not qualify
Euro 2004- Holland did not qualify
World cup 2006- second round
Euro 2008-  quarter final
World cup 2010- final
euro 2012- group stage

Their tournament results have not been anything special over the last decade.

Spain had been quarter-finalists five times since 1986 in World Cup and Euros so wouldn't call that nothing and in recent times have won one World Cup and two Euros.

As for Holland they have been runners-up three times in the World Cup as well as being semi-finalists and quarter-finalists once. In the Euros they have been semi-finalists four times, quarter-finalists twice and champions in 1988.

And to cap that Holland have a firm stranglehold on their group (seven points clear at the top).

[quote="CaledonianCraig"]Spain had been quarter-finalists five times since 1986 in World Cup and Euros so wouldn't call that nothing and in recent times have won one World Cup and two Euros.

As for Holland they have been runners-up three times in the World Cup as well as being semi-finalists and quarter-finalists once. In the Euros they have been semi-finalists four times, quarter-finalists twice and champions in 1988.[/quote]

It is a shame that in modern football (last 10 years) holland have been very poor, failing to qualify for 2 tournaments in a row.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Last 10 years for holland

World cup 2002- holland did not qualify
Euro 2004- Holland did not qualify
World cup 2006- second round
Euro 2008-  quarter final
World cup 2010- final
euro 2012- group stage

Their tournament results have not been anything special over the last decade.

Still achieved something England didn't.

Champagne_Socialist wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:Spain had been quarter-finalists five times since 1986 in World Cup and Euros so wouldn't call that nothing and in recent times have won one World Cup and two Euros.

As for Holland they have been runners-up three times in the World Cup as well as being semi-finalists and quarter-finalists once. In the Euros they have been semi-finalists four times, quarter-finalists twice and champions in 1988.[/quote]

It is a shame that in modern football (last 10 years) holland have been very poor, failing to qualify for 2 tournaments in a row.

Still made a World Cup Final - way above anything England have achieved in the same time span.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Champagne_Socialist wrote:Last 10 years for holland

World cup 2002- holland did not qualify
Euro 2004- Holland did not qualify
World cup 2006- second round
Euro 2008-  quarter final
World cup 2010- final
euro 2012- group stage

Their tournament results have not been anything special over the last decade.

Still achieved something England didn't.

World cup 2002- England gt to quarter finals
Euro 2004- quarter finals
World cup 2006- quarter finals
euro 2008- did not qualify
world cup 2010- second round
euro 2012- quarter final.

England over the last 10 years have been more consistent in getting further in tournaments. Holland failed to qualify for two tournaments and have only done better than England in one tournament that is world cup 2010 (tournaments both qualified in).

Greece won Euro 2004.

Does this make them better than Holland/England?

Your point?

So England have got to more finals but still not achieved what Holland have. Not sure that is something to boast about.

Olly wrote:Greece won Euro 2004.

Does this make them better than Holland/England?

At that point in time - most definitely.

Holland aren't the worry though. I'm more concerned with Spain, Germany, Brazil, Italy and Argentina. All of which I'd bet on to beat us in a knockout game.

England are second tier at best.

Empty your life savings into a Betfair account and lay (bet against) England winning the world cup and you'll make yourself a tidy sum. Hasn't done my finances any harm.

Liverpool fans are supposed to be the most deluded (and I'm a 'Pool fan) but England supporters far outweigh them. I'm going to the Moldova qualifier in september with a whole bunch of Duty's!

Not a knock on you Duty cos I was from that same school of thought as you but after failure after failure I've become resigned to looking at a QF exit as a success. It is what it is.

This England team is average. They wouldn't even finish in the top 4 of the PL.

Spain pre 2008

euro 1996- quarter final (england beat spain in the quarter finals)
world cup 1998- group stage
euro 2000- quarter final
World cup 2002- quarter final
euro 2004 - group stage
world cup - second round
e

Olly wrote:Greece won Euro 2004.

Does this make them better than Holland/England?

England winning the WC would be just as much as shock as Greece's triumph though.

Olly wrote:Greece won Euro 2004.

Does this make them better than Holland/England?

i was going to post the same thing

BTW I don't think I've seen anyone say England are gonna win the World Cup...

Just Duty saying it's an outside possibility if things go our way...

Which is possible...

I just feel England have had a better squad/team than this and still not come close to winning a trophy. That is not me being bitter in any way - more just what I honestly feel. Your Italia 90 squad and Euro 98 squad was better for me and you still missed out. I honestly don't think it helps you one iota when the media start up the hype and brainwash people into believing the World Cup is in the bag. It just puts greater pressure on the players that they can well do without.