Carl 'The Condradiction' Froch

First topic message reminder :

www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jpq_ZAhbRwU

George Groves just tweeted this. Have to say, it is pretty funny and makes Froch look like a complete Muppet...

He fought Ward before Froch.

The cumulative effect of the fights.

azania wrote:The Kess fight was close also. But Kess was a clear winner. He was the better fighter. Yes he avenged it but Kess has slipped. He took time out to let his injuries heal and got a beating from Ward.

I think Froch has improved from each defeat. Ironically he is not the trenches fighter so much anymore. He has a plan A & B.

Speaking of being big headed, anyone read the Joe Calzaghe piece on the BBC today. Says he is still the best super middle weight in Britain.

Wonder if Joe will be subjected to the same level of spew Froch recieves.

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Speaking of being big headed, anyone read the Joe Calzaghe piece on the BBC today. Says he is still the best super middle weight in Britain.

Wonder if Joe will be subjected to the same level of spew Froch recieves.

That was rather cringeworthy reading. I think it could just be self promotion ahead of his appearance on 'I'm a celebrity'?

seanmichaels wrote:

Lumbering_Jack wrote:Speaking of being big headed, anyone read the Joe Calzaghe piece on the BBC today. Says he is still the best super middle weight in Britain.

Wonder if Joe will be subjected to the same level of spew Froch recieves.

That was rather cringeworthy reading. I think it could just be self promotion ahead of his appearance on 'I'm a celebrity'?

I watched him a bit on master chef. He seems a pretty boring guy. And the really annoying thing about him is his voice. Why doesn't he just clear his bloody throat. Same with Villas Boas.

HAHAHA Lumbering, know what you mean, especially with Villas Boas, its very much irritating to say the least!! Funny now though because ill be thinking about it everytime he speaks.

Calzaghe is slapping Froch back in his place. I remember all the trash talk Froch used to do about Calzaghe and then they got Calzaghe on Sky Sports with him and he piped down. Started saying the only way he could beat Joe was to knock him out.

Thought Froch gave a pretty honest assessment of the fight.

Froch would obliterate him if they fought now but it would certainly generate interest.

It won't happen though. Joe is very protective of his 0 and the fights he took during his career show what it means to him.

Yeah he should have done more. Maybe if The Contradiction had explained to Joe that you can just ignore some losses he might have been less protective of the 0.

catchweight wrote:Yeah he should have done more. Maybe if The Contradiction had explained to Joe that you can just ignore some losses he might have been less protective of the 0.

It's not Froch's fault he has this attitude. He wasn't born that way so must have been influenced by others. It isn't his fault. He's the victim here .

Does anyone Larry Holmes saying he never lost a fight? Brilliant stuff.

"I never lost a fight, I was robbed".

"But what about Tyson?"

"I never lost a fight".

Maybe The Contradiction was brought up on a Larry Holmes diet?

Larry genuinely did not remember losing a fight. He was a bit concussed after tyson. Maybe carl took too many right hands from Kessler.

Didn't take enough for my liking...here's hoping George can add a fair few more to the tally

DAVE667 wrote:Didn't take enough for my liking...here's hoping George can add a fair few more to the tally

he won't

seanmichaels wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Didn't take enough for my liking...here's hoping George can add a fair few more to the tally

he won't

Why? Are you saying Groves won't land a glove on him? Is Froch really that elusive or is Groves even more gunshy than Audley? Why would Eddie Hearn risk a one sided farce of this magnitude?

Answer me these and other questions to be posed at some point in the future if you please so very kindly sir.

Groves will land on froch to no effect Dave. None at all. Name ne one top ten name that groves has chinned?
Groves acted gunshy against de gale, decided to stink the fight out and act like a poor mans mayweather without the accurate shots if any at all.
Eddie Hearn has this as PPv so its already a magnitude type farce.

DAVE667 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Didn't take enough for my liking...here's hoping George can add a fair few more to the tally

he won't

Why? Are you saying Groves won't land a glove on him? Is Froch really that elusive or is Groves even more gunshy than Audley? Why would Eddie Hearn risk a one sided farce of this magnitude?

Answer me these and other questions to be posed at some point in the future if you please so very kindly sir.

All questions now and in the future on the fight between these two will be answered on the 23rd November, all things being equal.

Groves will land plenty of punches on the Slimster I mean Froch is hardly difficult to hit is he

Why I think Groves will lose on points though is because Froch will counter-punch like he did against Kessler in the second fight and this will cause Groves to gas and then not throw as many punches late on

That being said Kessler was totally shot when he fought Froch the second time and Groves may not gas the same way and its fair to say Froch will knock be able to get the stoppage so if Groves can avoid the counter he has every chance

Sadly my money would still be on the Slimester though

mobilemaster8 wrote:Groves will land on froch to no effect Dave. None at all. Name ne one top ten name that groves has chinned?
Groves acted gunshy against de gale, decided to stink the fight out and act like a poor mans mayweather without the accurate shots if any at all.
Eddie Hearn has this as PPv so its already a magnitude type farce.

None at all? You mean he won't even get points for them if he lands more than Froch. Gracious me how can this be possible?

Groves doesn't have to have KO'd anyone to beat Froch, he's just got to keep hitting and not getting hit (admittedly easier said than done) but this idea that Groves has to KO Froch to win seems ridiculous when neither Kessler or Ward did it. Froch can be out-boxed and out-fought (there's no such term as "out-warriored" before you start) and Groves is handy enough.

DAVE667 wrote:

mobilemaster8 wrote:Groves will land on froch to no effect Dave. None at all. Name ne one top ten name that groves has chinned?
Groves acted gunshy against de gale, decided to stink the fight out and act like a poor mans mayweather without the accurate shots if any at all.
Eddie Hearn has this as PPv so its already a magnitude type farce.

None at all? You mean he won't even get points for them if he lands more than Froch. Gracious me how can this be possible?

Groves doesn't have to have KO'd anyone to beat Froch, he's just got to keep hitting and not getting hit (admittedly easier said than done) but this idea that Groves has to KO Froch to win seems ridiculous when neither Kessler or Ward did it. Froch can be out-boxed and out-fought (there's no such term as "out-warriored" before you start) and Groves is handy enough.

Groves will struggle to outpoint Froch with his output. Froch will throw far more. Anyway, this isn't going 12. Froch by war

This fight is going the distance either way. Neither of them is a exactly a knockout merchant although the way poor old shot Kessler was staggering about the place with his bambi legs I actually did think the Slimester was going to get the stoppage at one point. If Groves can put on a masterclass and the performance of a lifetime so far he can do this

WAR GROVES AND ALL THAT NONSENSE

You can on as if Froch can't punch without taking into account the opposition.

How many times between them have Johnson, Abraham, Pascal, Ward, Dirrell and Kessler hit the floor? Johnson was stopped by Hopkins almost 20 years ago now while Ward and Dirrell barely take a punch, Froch had no problem getting rid of Bute or Mack who from what i've seen have equivalent durability to Groves.

DAVE667 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Didn't take enough for my liking...here's hoping George can add a fair few more to the tally

he won't

Why? Are you saying Groves won't land a glove on him? Is Froch really that elusive or is Groves even more gunshy than Audley? Why would Eddie Hearn risk a one sided farce of this magnitude?

Answer me these and other questions to be posed at some point in the future if you please so very kindly sir.

People have landed squarely on Froch for years with very little success, and Groves has a questionnable chin. Bute has better feet movement and variety than Groves and Froch destroyed him. Whilst arrogant, it is true that they are in different leagues. This is akin to Barker v Martinez.

Froch dispatches a certain standard of fighter very well. Mack was an example of this. I agree with seanmichaels. Froch will KO Groves.

I dont think anyone is saying Froch cant punch

He certainly does not have the 'hands of dynamite' that his fans on this forum say he does but then these were the same people who said he would stop the likes Johnson, Abraham, Pascal, Ward, Dirrell and Kessler

Frochs 3 TKOs against Taylor, Bute and Mack came from pressure boxing which is Frochs strong point along with his counter-punch

I think Groves is smart enough to box his way out of the pressure though and while he will lose he will last the 12 rounds no problem at all

seanmichaels wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Didn't take enough for my liking...here's hoping George can add a fair few more to the tally

he won't

Why? Are you saying Groves won't land a glove on him? Is Froch really that elusive or is Groves even more gunshy than Audley? Why would Eddie Hearn risk a one sided farce of this magnitude?

Answer me these and other questions to be posed at some point in the future if you please so very kindly sir.

People have landed squarely on Froch for years with very little success, and Groves has a questionnable chin. Bute has better feet movement and variety than Groves and Froch destroyed him. Whilst arrogant, it is true that they are in different leagues. This is akin to Barker v Martinez.

Like I said, Kessler and Ward landed enough on Froch to get the win without having to KO him so is it so inconcievable that Groves won't hit him with enough scoring shots to nick the rounds?

Like I also said, I expect Froch to win but doubt this will be a blow-out.

Im actully agreeing with Dave here (the tears are rolling down as I type)

Groves does not need to hurt Froch. He just neeeds to land more punches to get the points decision

The way people are building this fight up its like some kinda 'last man standing' competition when we all know both fighters will be standing at the end of the final bell

DAVE667 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:

seanmichaels wrote:

DAVE667 wrote:Didn't take enough for my liking...here's hoping George can add a fair few more to the tally

he won't

Why? Are you saying Groves won't land a glove on him? Is Froch really that elusive or is Groves even more gunshy than Audley? Why would Eddie Hearn risk a one sided farce of this magnitude?

Answer me these and other questions to be posed at some point in the future if you please so very kindly sir.

People have landed squarely on Froch for years with very little success, and Groves has a questionnable chin. Bute has better feet movement and variety than Groves and Froch destroyed him. Whilst arrogant, it is true that they are in different leagues. This is akin to Barker v Martinez.

Like I said, Kessler and Ward landed enough on Froch to get the win without having to KO him so is it so inconcievable that Groves won't hit him with enough scoring shots to nick the rounds?

Like I also said, I expect Froch to win but doubt this will be a blow-out.

Ward and Kessler are top quality fighters - one p4p number 2, the other gave Calzaghe fits. Look at groves' boat after the De Gale fight - De Gale barely through a shot in anger. In fact, I thinkthe best chance of a Groves win is if he gets cut against a slow starting Froch and it goes to the scorecards.

Johnson- Stopped once on his feat, knocked down once controversially against Sheika
Abraham- Stopped once on a cut, knocked down once by Dirrell
Ward- Knocked down once
Pascal- Has never been knocked down
Kessler- Down once to Green
Dirrell- Down once to Hanshaw

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Johnson- Stopped once on his feat, knocked down once controversially against Sheika
Abraham- Stopped once on a cut, knocked down once by Dirrell
Ward- Knocked down once
Pascal- Has never been knocked down
Kessler- Down once to Green
Dirrell- Down once to Hanshaw

I dont get the point in this post

Steffan wrote:This fight is going the distance either way. Neither of them is a exactly a knockout merchant although the way poor old shot Kessler was staggering about the place with his bambi legs I actually did think the Slimester was going to get the stoppage at one point. If Groves can put on a masterclass and the performance of a lifetime so far he can do this

WAR GROVES AND ALL THAT NONSENSE

Repeating this ad infinitum will not make it any truer. Did you go to the Winchester / Gordy school of debating, frequented by all manner of politicians and Daily Mail readers? We know you can't stand Froch because he disrespected your idol, but that is no more than Calazghe did to Collins back in the day. The difference this time is Foch is actually giving an up and coming fighter a chance; with all the grace of a 1 tonne bomb I grant you, but at least he is fighting the person calling him out as opposed to either retiring as Collins did or moving up a weight to get bigger / better fights as Calzaghe did. Now I don't blame Calzaghe for not taking this challenge as I honestly don't think it was much of challenge for him and, at that stage of his career, he had earned the right to take the fights that interested him and made him the most money. But at least give Froch some credit for taking this fight.

Abraham had the snivelling sh1t Dirrell on the floor  

Groves doesn't have the durability or evasiveness of anything of those, so to use them as a yardstick of Froch not being able to knock him out is silly.

Steffan wrote:Im actully agreeing with Dave here (the tears are rolling down as I type)

Groves does not need to hurt Froch. He just neeeds to land more punches to get the points decision

The way people are building this fight up its like some kinda 'last man standing' competition when we all know both fighters will be standing at the end of the final bell

Those aren't tears Steffan, that's you ejeculating having discovered how wonderful it is to be me even for the briefest of moments...or maybe they're tears, I don't know.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Groves doesn't have the durability or evasiveness of anything of those, so to use them as a yardstick of Froch not being able to knock him out is silly.

Groves has never been stopped (cant remember if he has been on the canvas or not) so he is in the same boat as those fighters you mentioned

Anybody looking at Froch record and saying he hasn't stopped many of his last, say 10 opponents, is not taking into consideration their durability. Groves said himself he was dropped twice in his last camp. He is getting sparked out. Fact!

The evasive Groves against someone doing his best rope-a-dope impression

Spoiler:

I like Groves he could have been a bit more respectful.

Steffan wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Groves doesn't have the durability or evasiveness of anything of those, so to use them as a yardstick of Froch not being able to knock him out is silly.

Groves has never been stopped (cant remember if he has been on the canvas or not) so he is in the same boat as those fighters you mentioned

This must be a wind up.

Of course he hasn't been stopped, who has he fought? Anderson had him down, also, but that aside, he has been dropped in sparring several times, too

He isn't though, he was dropped badly against Anderson and wobbled slightly against Smith, he quite clearly doesn't not have the chin of Abraham, Kessler, Pascal or Johnson. I very much doubt he has the elusiveness of Dirrell or Ward either, in short he's far more likely to get knocked out than any of them.

Steffan wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:Groves doesn't have the durability or evasiveness of anything of those, so to use them as a yardstick of Froch not being able to knock him out is silly.

Groves has never been stopped (cant remember if he has been on the canvas or not) so he is in the same boat as those fighters you mentioned

Groves down in round 3 against the 'hard hitting' Kenny Anderson

Look fellas...you gotta start showing some belief. When you watch movies like the Karate Kid do you always believe the bad guy is going to win as opposed to the good guy rising above the odds and claiming victory against the bully and nasty individual that brings him and others torment

WAR GROVES

Steffan wrote:Look fellas...you gotta start showing some belief. When you watch movies like the Karate Kid do you always believe the bad guy is going to win as opposed to the good guy rising above the odds and claiming victory against the bully and nasty individual that brings him and others torment

WAR GROVES

Daniel son deserved a kicking for letting Elizabeth Shoe out of his grasp. She is high quality growler.

Steffan wrote:I dont think anyone is saying Froch cant punch

He certainly does not have the 'hands of dynamite' that his fans on this forum say he does but then these were the same people who said he would stop the likes Johnson, Abraham, Pascal, Ward, Dirrell and Kessler

Frochs 3 TKOs against Taylor, Bute and Mack came from pressure boxing which is Frochs strong point along with his counter-punch

I think Groves is smart enough to box his way out of the pressure though and while he will lose he will last the 12 rounds no problem at all

The people who say he has hands of dynamite are mainly you, repeating what people in your head have said. Nobody says Froch is a super middleweight Mathysse, simply that only the uber tough or ultra elusive stay up right against him. If you'd stop going on about his power, then nobody would be talking about his power, you waingro.

seanmichaels wrote:Daniel son deserved a kicking for letting Elizabeth Shoe out of his grasp. She is high quality growler

Yeah that spat was all down to Elisabeth Shue but in all fairness while Frochs bird Cordingley aint a bad looker the fact she has a gob like a side street tart and has now popped out a few mini-Slimsters I dont think Groves will be wanting to go there anytime soon if he won the fight

I like Groves, he has a real nice snappy jab and if he can get it working he may well find himself up early on the cards. But defensively he is very poor (For world level) and struggles with pressure. Froch starts to find him with something approaching regularity after the half way point and stops him between 7-10 for me.

Froch will beat his bag in