Scotland XV for Autumn Internationals

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Right let's get down to business shall we?!

9/11/13
Scotland vs Japan
KO - 2.30pm

17/11/13
Scotland vs South Africa
KO - 3pm

23/11/13
Scotland vs Australia
KO - 6pm

First of all, the schedule for these three matches is super. Unlike last few years, Scotland will play a less formidable team first before two tough matches against SA and Aus. SA are on a roll at the moment and will be a good, stern test for Scotland before Australia. Injuries may be an issue however as we saw in the summer.

If Scotland beat Australia that will make it 3 wins in a row vs the Wallabies which would be a fantastic achievement. But obviously wins over any of these three teams will be great.

Players

Backs M Bennett (Glasgow), C Cusiter (Glasgow), De Luca (Edinburgh), A Dunbar (Glasgow), M Evans (Castres), T Heathcote (Bath), R Jackson (Glasgow), S Lamont (Glasgow), G Laidlaw (Edinburgh), S Maitland (Glasgow), H Pyrgos (Glasgow), M Scott (Edinburgh), T Seymour (Glasgow), D Taylor (Saracens), G Tonks (Edinburgh), T Visser (Edinburgh), D Weir (Glasgow).
Forwards J Barclay (Scarlets), J Beattie (Montpellier), K Brown (Saracens), B Cowan (London Irish), G Cross (Edinburgh), D Denton (Edinburgh), A Dickinson (Edinburgh), R Ford (Edinburgh), C Fusaro (Glasgow), G Gilchrist (Edinburgh) R Grant (Glasgow), J Gray (Glasgow), R Gray (Castres), J Hamilton (Montpellier), R Harley (Glasgow), A Kellock (Glasgow), S Lawson (Newcastle), K Low (London Irish), M Low (Glasgow), P MacArthur (Glasgow), E Murray (Worcester), A Strokosch (Perpignan), T Swinson (Glasgow), J Welsh (Glasgow)

*Sorry for not updating this sooner. My girlfriend and I broke up a few weeks ago after four and a half years, three living together. I've been in a pretty bad place. However, I'm getting better and looking forward to these games so I'll continue to contribute when I can

Don't we play league on a rota system?
I'm sure that's how we *play* cricket.

George Carlin wrote:Don't we play league on a rota system?
I'm sure that's how we *play* cricket.

Certainly a few Aussies etc in the squad but they all qualify in the same way as union so if there's any potential Jason Robinsons or Chris Ashtons in the Scotland team then could be interesting viewing.

Must say, Ive just watched the Scotland victory over Tonga in the League, What a neat game, one of the gutsiest displays of defence Ive seen in a long time... Well done Scotland.

Scotland have just beaten Tonga. Like when I watch the NBA, I'm so out of the loop that I don't know if Tonga are a noteworthy scalp.

As a Union man (not that kind of union; free markets get me excited), I fell strange saying this, but it would be great to see League make some big inroads in Scotland from its meagre status in recent years.

A good friend of mine at Uni was scouted to play for the Scotland Students League team on the basis that his name was McCormick, which apparently sounded 'kind of Scotch'. I would point out that he had once been a sub for the Uni 2nds League team, and was a more permanent fixture on my Debating Society's 7s team...

Amazing game, really enjoyed watching it. Fantastic result for Scotland who have some really good players in the squad. the atmosphere at the match in Cumbria looked really good with the big crowd mainly supporting Scotland.
Two tries by Matt Russell, 20 year old fullback born in Irvine but playing in Australia ; just signed for Warrington Wolves but a possible 'project player' if ever there was.
The matches are on Premier Sports TV which is 551 on Virgin Media, next game Sunday

aucklandlaurie wrote:
Must say, Ive just watched the Scotland victory over Tonga in the League, What a neat game, one of the gutsiest displays of defence Ive seen in a long time... Well done Scotland.

Agree, thrilling game that when right down to the wire. No nails left...

MacKnocked-on wrote:Amazing game, really enjoyed watching it. Fantastic result for Scotland who have some really good players in the squad. the atmosphere at the match in Cumbria looked really good with the big crowd mainly supporting Scotland.
Two tries by Matt Russell, 20 year old fullback born in Irvine but playing in Australia ; just signed for Warrington Wolves but a possible 'project player' if ever there was.
The matches are on Premier Sports TV which is 551 on Virgin Media, next game Sunday

Interesting comment, as I am familiar with most of the scottish players but until tonight I had never heard of Matt Russell,(The commentators said he had a stint at the Gold Coast but I cant remember that) in scoring that first try, he fought and got out of the tackles of some very proffessional league players.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:Amazing game, really enjoyed watching it. Fantastic result for Scotland who have some really good players in the squad. the atmosphere at the match in Cumbria looked really good with the big crowd mainly supporting Scotland.
Two tries by Matt Russell, 20 year old fullback born in Irvine but playing in Australia ; just signed for Warrington Wolves but a possible 'project player' if ever there was.
The matches are on Premier Sports TV which is 551 on Virgin Media, next game Sunday

Interesting comment, as I am familiar with most of the scottish players but until tonight I had never heard of Matt Russell,(The commentators said he had a stint at the Gold Coast but I cant remember that) in scoring that first try, he fought and got out of the tackles of some very proffessional league players.

Thought his first try was really exceptional, can't think of many of our union players who would have scored that. Also impressed by Danny Brough's place kicking, makes it look seriously easy. Having said all that, Scotland really need to work on their kick defence before Sunday.

Wonderful stuff. This link to the highlights might work for some of you:
http://www.3news.co.nz/VIDEO-All-tries-26-24-Scotland-Vs-Tonga-Rugby-League-World-Cup-2013/tabid/415/articleID/319408/Default.aspx

Out of interest, how many of these guys are 'scottish'? Rugby league is such a minority sport in Scotland I'd be surprised if many if them were born and raised here.

P.s. I'm not in the Jack Wilshire school of thinking, I'm just genuinely amazed we have a competitive RL team!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Out of interest, how many of these guys are 'scottish'? Rugby league is such a minority sport in Scotland I'd be surprised if many if them were born and raised here.

P.s. I'm not in the Jack Wilshire school of thinking, I'm just genuinely amazed we have a competitive RL team!

Not many born in Scotland, perhaps 1 or 2 at most, Matt Russell the double try scorer was born in Irvine and the rest of the squad is comprised of some Australian born players and the majority were born in Yorkshire, Cumbria etc. All qualify either through parentage or grand parentage the same as union although it seems that you can switch allegiance as the captain Danny Brough has played for Scotland initially then played for England but is now playing for Scotland again. It's not even as if he's trying to find easy caps as he is this season's Iron Man of the Super League so playing for England in this World Cup would also have been an option I'm sure.

Well done to them all anyway for last night's result.

Reminds me of hearing the story about the GB Ice Hockey team at the winter Olympics in the 1930s or something like that - we won gold because most of the team were Canadians who had a vague link with GB, and hardly any of them had actually been to the country!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Reminds me of hearing the story about the GB Ice Hockey team at the winter Olympics in the 1930s or something like that - we won gold because most of the team were Canadians who had a vague link with GB, and hardly any of them had actually been to the country!

I take your point but I think Scotland has always been a country that has lost a lot of people to economic migration and I don't think that their children and grandchildren should feel any less Scottish depending on their upbringing. Of course some players may see it as an easy route to international rugby (union or league) but the qualification rules make for a very competitive tournament, at least in the group stages.

IanBru wrote:Scotland have just beaten Tonga. Like when I watch the NBA, I'm so out of the loop that I don't know if Tonga are a noteworthy scalp.

As a Union man (not that kind of union; free markets get me excited), I fell strange saying this, but it would be great to see League make some big inroads in Scotland from its meagre status in recent years.

A good friend of mine at Uni was scouted to play for the Scotland Students League team on the basis that his name was McCormick, which apparently sounded 'kind of Scotch'. I would point out that he had once been a sub for the Uni 2nds League team, and was a more permanent fixture on my Debating Society's 7s team...

 

On the serious point about encouraging rugby league in Scotland, I'm totally fine with that. I'd suggest that Ben Atiga and Lee Jones sign up straight away......

Tim McVisser and Duncan Taylor out of the AIs... who would your replacements be?

Is Taylor confirmed out of all three tests? If so I would probably consider someone like Grove although he has been out of favour with Scotland for some time.

With the size of the squad being what it is we probably don't need to replace anyone. Losing Taylor would be a blow as I'd have given him game time in the AIs, however there's still Sean Lamont and Max Evans to come in.

If we lose Dunbar though, I'd certainly look to Alex Grove to come into the squad and cover 13.

A Simply Mesmeric Try wrote:Tim McVisser and Duncan Taylor out of the AIs... who would your replacements be?

I don't think Taylor is out entirely. He's missed training with an abdominal injury, but there has been no word from the Scotland camp on it being any more than a temporary niggle.

If Taylor ends up dropping out, I'd go for Grove too, but we've already got a 41 man squad.

As things currently stand my 23 for the Japan game would be:

Maitland
Seymour
De Luca
Scott
Lamont
Jackson
Laidlaw
Denton
Fusaro
Brown (c)
Hamilton
Swinson
Grant
MacArthur
Welsh

Evans
Weir
Cusiter
Strokosh
R Gray
Low
Dickinson
Ford

I'd be happy to bring in Strokosh and Barclay for Brown and Fusaro; Bennett could also come in for De Luca and is unlucky to miss out on the bench but Evans offers more versatility and experience for me.

I'd expect Bennett to come in ahead of De Luca. De Luca isn't playing badly, but if Bennett is going to have a chance of playing at the next World Cup he needs to be given opportunities.

I'd say Bennett's biggest competition comes from Dunbar if he's fit to play. Johnson clearly identified Scott and Dunbar as a potential combination during the summer.

There's certainly an argument for giving Bennett international game time. I was just nervous about having brand new caps at 7 and 13. They are such key positions, but maybe that's exactly why we need to blood some new talent...

I'm all for making players earn the jersey, but Fusaro and Bennett have both established themselves as 1st choice in the Glasgow side, and have been playing strongly this season. I think their time has come to make the step up. There are never any guarantees as to how a player will cope, but you can only go with the facts and form at club level, and both merit a start against Japan.

There will still be plenty experience in the side. Ford will probably play in the front row with Grant. Both Lions. Hamilton will likely feature in the second row and one of Brown or Stroksoch in the back row. Plenty of experience. Laidlaw and Jackson have plenty caps at half back, and it looks like one of Max Evans or Sean Lamont will be involved on the wing. I think there's enough there to keep us level headed without needing NDL (and given his behaviour last season I'd say he's not that safe a bet).

Captain_Sensible wrote:

A Simply Mesmeric Try wrote:Tim McVisser and Duncan Taylor out of the AIs... who would your replacements be?

I don't think Taylor is out entirely. He's missed training with an abdominal injury, but there has been no word from the Scotland camp on it being any more than a temporary niggle.

Here's to DT getting over the knock quickly. I rate him quite highly.

I also think it's a shame there aren't any Scotland A games this November. I enjoyed the trips to Netherdale to see the lads show the opposition what playing rugby in the Borders is all about (other than getting cold and wet).

I'd love to the Gray bros play together, it could be a really interesting combo.

The Scotsman video interview with SJ suggests that he's keen to keep on experimenting, within limits, with the matchday squads, both in terms of positions and combinations. He also says that some players are effectively in the last chance saloon, which is interesting.

Great news!

Ross Rennie named on the bench for Edinburgh. About bloody time!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Great news!

Ross Rennie named on the bench for Edinburgh.  About bloody time!

Really really hope he can have a long injury free stretch starting from now. He deserves it, and Edinburgh and Scotland both need him fit and firing.

Absolutely agree. He is a top class international openside when at the top of his game, with only a small handful of players in the world ahead of him in the pecking order. A back row of Kelly Brown, Ross Rennie and David Denton could really take us places. Very well balanced.

Just seen the Glasgow team for Saturday. The most interesting thing for me is that both Gray Jr and  are starting. Wee Jonny is paired with Ryder who hasn't featured this season and so may not have 80 minutes in him, and with only two backs on the bench it looks as if young Bennet will also play the full 80. This would seem to suggest that they are not likely to play against Japan the following week. I can't really see either of them making a debut against the Wallabies or the Boks. So it looks as if they will have to wait until the 6N's.

I’d say  has more of a chance than Gray – this is Gray’s first season as a regular pro, and we’re very strong in the 2nd row, so I suspect he’s in the squad for experience only.

is much closer in the pecking order, and I’d be surprised if he doesn’t feature at least on the bench.

I agree, it's too soon for young Gray, and with Hamilton, Swinson, Kellock and Richie Gray there's no reason to play him. He's been good, but he hasn't earned a debut yet.

I'm slightly surprised that Bennett is playing this weekend and NDL is not. Suggests to me that Scott and NDL will be the preferred choice in the AIs, unless Dunbar or Taylor recover. Not sure I agree with that either. Purely on form I'd pick Bennett ahead of NDL this season.

De Luca was MOTM in his last game and Bennet played poorly - current form says De Luca!  

Joking aside, De Luca has generally played pretty well so far, and although Bennet has done generally OK I wouldn’t say his performances have been of the highest order that have made him a must pick for Scotland.  Therefore I don’t think it is correct to say Bennett is the form pick.

If we take away our preconceptions (i.e. Nick De-useless, and the fact that Bennett is  ) then there really isn’t much in it.

I was talking about the season rather than just the last game, but agree that there isn't much in it. I'm still annoyed with NDL for his silly spear tackle last season and given that NDL and Bennett are close in terms of form, I'd go with the younger prospect who hasn't relatively recently blotted his copy book.

Feels strange arguing in favour of Mark Bennett.

RDW, you make a good point here. It also reminded me of Mike Blair's recent comments re the next world cup. Basically there are a few "older" players who are in the last chance saloon. They're not , realistically, going to improve any between now and then and if they're not forcing their way into the side now then surely it's time to start developing young talent. In the centres this would seem to suggest; Scott, Dunbar, Taylor and Bennett who if they keep developing should be in the squad for 2015. If De Luca can't get into the side today what more could he offer in a year and a half's time? This would suggest it will be Scott-DeLuca against Japan and if they do well then start the next match too, with Taylor on the bench.
Who else could be looking at a last chance? Rev. Murray hasn't exactly been convincing recently, so put him against two fearsome packs ( given that one of them is the Wallabies-I'm obviously talking mince) he's either up to the job or we start bringing on A N Other.
Hurts me to say it but John Barclay could be there too. Fozzie, Rennie, Barcs. Put them in ascending order. Which one dominates/ owns the jersey? And if an experienced player like Barcs doesn't own the jersey by now....
So for Ford, Barcs, Beattie and DeLuca these three games could be the end of the road but with the exception of John Barclay they have all struggled to perform consistently at the highest level. Or am I too harsh?

pip - I think your comments are fair, but I also think it is worth noting that Ford, Barcs, Beattie and De Luca have shown to be top class players, and very good internationalists. What they have maybe lacked is consistency - consistency comes with experience.

They are definitely worth holding on to now, indeed Barclay is only 26 or something!

funnyExiledScot wrote:I agree, it's too soon for young Gray, and with Hamilton, Swinson, Kellock and Richie Gray there's no reason to play him. He's been good, but he hasn't earned a debut yet.

I'm slightly surprised that Bennett is playing this weekend and NDL is not. Suggests to me that Scott and NDL will be the preferred choice in the AIs, unless Dunbar or Taylor recover. Not sure I agree with that either. Purely on form I'd pick Bennett ahead of NDL this season.

It's worth remembering that Glasgow have pretty much run out of backs. So, Bennett's inclusion in the Glasgow side as actually essential for them because there's no one else available.

RDW_Scotland wrote:pip - I think your comments are fair, but I also think it is worth noting that Ford, Barcs, Beattie and De Luca have shown to be top class players, and very good internationalists.  What they have maybe lacked is consistency - consistency comes with experience.

They are definitely worth holding on to now, indeed Barclay is only 26 or something!

Has NDL proven himself as a very good international, though? I can only think of one game where he's looked particularly good (Ireland in 2010) - other times he's been anything from appalling to OK. He's had 38-odd caps to demonstrate consistency. If he's not done it yet, why hang around and wait for him to do it over the next 38-odd caps? He's been our first choice at 13 for so long because he's been our only choice at 13.

I think you just need to pick on form. NDL has certainly had some poor performances in a Scotland jersey over the years, but he's played some good stuff as well. He's also had the misfortune at times of being picked off form at times purely down to a lack of options, and also having to play outside Parks and Morrison (or S Lamont). I don't think it's a coincidence that Bennett's least convincing performance this season (last weekend) came with S Lamont at 12. Some of the passes he was getting were dreadful, and invariably either too high or behind him.

As a 13 you need a good 10 and 12 in order to thrive. Very few exceptions to that, and the evidence suggests that Bennett would do no better than NDL stuck outside backs who can't pass or create space. Perhaps the only 13 I can think of is Guscott who managed to play superbly outside fairly basic players (Andrew and Carling), but Guscott was a world class back.

You just need to pick on form. If you start down the road of saying "so and so has done very little in 20 odd caps so let's just forget about him" you'd be dropping more than half the side.

You just need to pick on form. If you start down the road of saying "so and so has done very little in 20 odd caps so let's just forget about him" you'd be dropping more than half the side. said FES.
And?
Surely if so and so has had twenty chances and done very little then where is there for him to go?
Certain players are now the finished article and if they are not good enough to compete with the best now then they probably never will be. I agree with FES about playing outside Parks and Morrison, so give NDL three games outside Jackson and Scott. If he looks out of his depth then it must be time to look elsewhere.
If Ross Ford yet again loses his ability to throw on the crucial line outs over the next three matches then I suggest it's a permanent state of mind for him and we need to start putting others in place for 2015, asap.
This isn't a vendetta, but there are members of the squad who are at their peak and realistically won't get any better and either they show against the best that they can contribute in the future or they move over. I adore Al Kellock, but I'm not sure he can cut it at the very highest level so let's use these AI's to find out once and for all.

I think what FES is getting it is if you think back over 20 tests I can think of more games that Jim Hamilton has infuriated me instead of put in a great performance, Strokosh has been anonymous instead of a physical menace, Jackson has been frustratingly inconsistent instead of a commanding presence at 10, Euan Murray has barely looked interested as opposed to getting one up on his opposite number....I could go on.

Hardly any Scotland players over the course of 20 caps could come out with a very good record - we're just not a good enough rugby team and the individuals within it have their inconsistencies.

I think part of the problem has been competition for places. Folk like De Luca, Ford, etc have been shakey at times but there was no one breathing down thier neck to take the place off them.

I think Cotter will be having an eye on the world cup and having some say in the AIs and 6Ns teams. If players do not perform then their place wil be given to someone else more deserving. Competition breeds performance

...which is exactly why I think SJ knows exactly what he's doing with the comments he made.

I wouldn't be surprised if Murray, Hamilton, Strokosh, De Luca and Lamont had good AIs - SJ has made it clear that he is happy to not select them going forward if they don't perform now

RDW_Scotland wrote:...which is exactly why I think SJ knows exactly what he's doing with the comments he made.

I wouldn't be surprised if Murray, Hamilton, Strokosh, De Luca and Lamont had good AIs - SJ has made it clear that he is happy to not select them going forward if they don't perform now

Strokosch is a great example of why you shouldn't discard a player because he hasn't set the world on fire after a few games. He was absolutely outstanding in the summer, and yet you could easily have justified going with Rob Harley instead, on the basis that Strokosch had tried and failed and it was time for someone new.

I think we can all agree that Jackson hasn't delivered on his potential at international level thus far, but does that mean we shouldn't start him in the AIs, and play Finn Russell or Harry Leonard instead? Of course not. This season at club level Jackson has been the best Scots qualified stand-off, therefore he starts. You can only play the best players available. As it happens, I think that means playing Bennett ahead of De Luca against Japan, and taking it from there.

As an aside, does anyone know how many tickets have been sold for the Japan game?

Hmmm, slightly concerning story in the Scotsman this afternoon. Seems as though some of the squad made have done a Lesley Vainikolo...

Scotland rugby players investigated over assault

THREE current Scotland internationalists and a sevens cap are at the centre of a police investigation after a club rugby player was left with a fractured skull following an early morning assault.

The quartet, which includes two Glasgow Warriors players in line to play for Scotland against Japan next weekend and one injured cap, are alleged to have been involved in the fracas at the Barbecue King takeaway shop in Glasgow’s Great Western Road that left Glasgow Hawks centre Ally MacLay seriously injured in the early hours of Sunday morning.

GLove39 wrote:Hmmm, slightly concerning story in the Scotsman this afternoon. Seems as though some of the squad made have done a Lesley Vainikolo...

Scotland rugby players investigated over assault

THREE current Scotland internationalists and a sevens cap are at the centre of a police investigation after a club rugby player was left with a fractured skull following an early morning assault.

The quartet, which includes two Glasgow Warriors players in line to play for Scotland against Japan next weekend and one injured cap, are alleged to have been involved in the fracas at the Barbecue King takeaway shop in Glasgow’s Great Western Road that left Glasgow Hawks centre Ally MacLay seriously injured in the early hours of Sunday morning.

A few posts on twitter about this from some guy called Neil Drysdale who has named the three players believed to be involved. Also a couple of pics of one of the named players in the Viper nightclub getting his pic taken with a fan.
If the story is true what surprises me is that 2 of the 3 named players are in the current squad and would be out on a pub crawl a day before they are due for a Scotland training camp for the Autumn tests. Not the sort of press that Scottish rugby needs at the moment and sounds like the story will have a bit to run. Again if true will be interesting to see how the SRU and Glasgow Warriors deal with it considering a few of the Warriors are also playing for the Hawks as well.

Majestic83 wrote:

GLove39 wrote:Hmmm, slightly concerning story in the Scotsman this afternoon. Seems as though some of the squad made have done a Lesley Vainikolo...

Scotland rugby players investigated over assault

THREE current Scotland internationalists and a sevens cap are at the centre of a police investigation after a club rugby player was left with a fractured skull following an early morning assault.

The quartet, which includes two Glasgow Warriors players in line to play for Scotland against Japan next weekend and one injured cap, are alleged to have been involved in the fracas at the Barbecue King takeaway shop in Glasgow’s Great Western Road that left Glasgow Hawks centre Ally MacLay seriously injured in the early hours of Sunday morning.

A few posts on twitter about this from some guy called Neil Drysdale who has named the three players believed to be involved. Also a couple of pics of one of the named players in the Viper nightclub getting his pic taken with a fan.
If the story is true what surprises me is that 2 of the 3 named players are in the current squad and would be out on a pub crawl a day before they are due for a Scotland training camp for the Autumn tests. Not the sort of press that Scottish rugby needs at the moment and sounds like the story will have a bit to run. Again if true will be interesting to see how the SRU and Glasgow Warriors deal with it considering a few of the Warriors are also playing for the Hawks as well.

Ahhh, I know Neil, works for STV & has written a few nice pieces about my work in the past.
More importantly having seen the players he's saying were alleged to be involved in the incident this could potentially be very embarrassing for the SRU, especially given all the marketing that's been done around the AI's.

Just seen the players mentioned - massive shock really, what the hell were they thinking??

This is exactly not what we need.

Yep I am surprised by 2 of the names involved. Obviously just speculation at the moment but definitely not what Scottish rugby needs in the build up to the autumn tests. Not been a good week either for Glasgow Warriors so far!

Glasgow and hawks both on Halloween nights out apparently