Raw spoiler

So it seems Bryan will be giving up the title after he announced he needs surgery

Were does that leave the title now? Will it be incorporated into one of the ongoing feuds either shield v evolution or cena v wyatt?

Not sure what they will do - Dave Meltzer has reported that it is minor surgery and he could be back in 6-8 weeks (MiTB time)... could have a hand picked "coronation" at Payback in lieu of a title match and then have Bryan come out and chase the title again.

With the two other main event matches a WWE WHC match wouldn't be absolutely essential. Who would you pick for that role?

- Kane? Bryan has already beaten him...
- Batista? Off making movies
- Orton? 2013 is calling and wants its storyline back
- HHH? Certainly wouldn't be averse to it
- CM Punk?... Nope.
- Lesnar?... Doubt he will be back for a bit.

If it is 6-8 weeks they could do a 2 month long KOTR Style tournament. 32 superstars over the course of 6 weeks, with Bryan returning after the new champ is crowned. Could build up Cesaro that way. Or Sheamus again.

Either that or just put the belt on Cena again.

Ideally, I would like to see Brock Lesnar return and take the championship but with the way his contract is set up, doesn't look like thats gonna happen.

I'd like to see a member of Evolution win the championship if Bryan is stripped of it. Maybe not Orton, but Batista or HHH would do. This would then add more to the feud between Evolution and The Shield.

Besides Cena and the few mentioned above, don't think there's anyone else on the roster that should be the champion right now. The likes of Cesaro, BNB need to continue their character development before challenging for the title.

Well both Batista and Orton still have a claim to a one on one title match. Although I dont think anyone wants to see that.

Wonder how many missed calls Punk has from Vince today.

Would like to see them keep the title on Bryan until Payback. Bryan being the fighting Champion declares he'll be ready for Kane in Chicago, continues to avoid Kane's attacks on the upcoming Raws, at the PPV Bryan isn't cleared to compete so Stephanie demands he hands the title over to her and Kane. Bryan reluctantly does so and Stephanie introduces 'your new WWEWHC - Ka....' CULT OF PERSONALITY!! Crowd goes wild, out comes Punk and demands a match with Kane for the title. Punk wins it and picks up from where Bryan left off who picked up from where Punk left off earlier in the year.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND Then I wake up.

Hashtag PunkFanBoy
Hashtag AintGonnaHappen

Mr H wrote:Wonder how many missed calls Punk has from Vince today.

Would like to see them keep the title on Bryan until Payback. Bryan being the fighting Champion declares he'll be ready for Kane in Chicago, continues to avoid Kane's attacks on the upcoming Raws, at the PPV Bryan isn't cleared to compete so Stephanie demands he hands the title over to her and Kane. Bryan reluctantly does so and Stephanie introduces 'your new WWEWHC - Ka....' CULT OF PERSONALITY!! Crowd goes wild, out comes Punk and demands a match with Kane for the title. Punk wins it and picks up from where Bryan left off who picked up from where Punk left off earlier in the year.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAND Then I wake up.

Hashtag PunkFanBoy
Hashtag AintGonnaHappen

Or H Daniel Bryan hands back the titles and Stephanie states that the WWE are looking for someone to better represent them, but also someone that can capture the "Internet fan" demographic. Out comes Punk... Stephanie can claim that Punk was tired in January and wasn't really in the mood to work WrestleMania. Not to worry everyone, the Authority still ensured that he got his WM paycheck.

Punk can go back to the line that the Voice of the Voiceless was a publicity stunt. Whether it is the Legend Killer or the Cerebral Assassin everyone in the WWE needs a tag line and Punk is no different.

Bryan looks shocked and says that he thought that they were on the same page.... "Same page?" says Punk. "Who was it that labelled you as a goatface in the first place?" (Punk during his face run in 2012). Punk could say that he has tried everything to keep DB down that he is no better than Punk's backup, the guy the fans cheer for when Punk decides he is bored of them.

Punk walks up the ramp, arm in arm with Stephanie and the WWE WHC title. Bryan looks sickened.

Pop it on one of the few faces the fans would accept...Ziggler

Bryan being injured or more interesting than Raw

a note on that episode of RAW: it was terrible

Alicia fox was the highlight of raw

Fast forwarding most of it

That Adam Rose character hasnt even done wrestled yet but I already hate him

TopoftheChops wrote:Alicia fox was the highlight of raw

  

I used to despise her, but she been a good foil for Paige, and was excellent last night.

gazzyD wrote:Fast forwarding most of it

That Adam Rose character hasnt even done wrestled yet but I already hate him

Why do i like him?   His entrance theme is class though.


Worrying about Bryan, no idea who they will give it to.

The entrance theme will get him across as a Fandango type character. Fair play to the guy realizing he won't make main event so settling for mid card already.

Bryan wise. Personally id prefer Lesnar or HHH to take the title to make some kind of sense. If going for random stuff then a KOTR with Cena/Wyatt Final. Is it too early for Bray to be champ i suspect so but might as well see if sinks or swims.

Cessaro for me.

NickisBHAFC wrote:Cessaro for me.

For what? WWE champ? Ridiculous suggestion. Not even close to it. Excellent in the ring but has no character to speak of, carries himself awkwardly and looks like a gymnast from Eastern Europe with that ring attire. People are going waaaaay overboard with this guy waaaaaay too soon. He's about 1 year of solid booking away from the main event yet was nowhere to be seen on RAW.

There's only 5 people who can carry that belt if Bryan relinquishes. Punk, HHH, Orton, Cena and Batista at a push. Any other suggestions are fanciful.

The WWE has really failed with some of their young talent. Barrett should be a main eventer along with Rhodes, Ziggler and Kingston by now. If they were booked correctly, they could have become champion.

TopoftheChops wrote:The WWE has really failed with some of their young talent. Barrett should be a main eventer along with Rhodes, Ziggler and Kingston by now. If they were booked correctly, they could have become champion.

It's not always on creative that a wrestler fails to fulfil their potential. Sometimes the wrestler themselves doesn't do enough. Ziggler and Kingston are prime examples. Neither guy has shown any type of develop in-ring. Kingston looks to be the type of guy who''s happy with anything the WWE give him.

Whilst Ziggler talks a big game, he has changed his character at all since turning face, and it is hurting his act. He comes across as whiny and vain, not the attributes a main event face should possess.

Its a bit unfair on Kofi. He was ready for a main event push in 2009 and proved it in his feud with Orton. Then WWE just stopped giving him stuff to work with, and he descended back down the card.

Ziggler was red hot this time last year as WHC, before getting a concussion. E' to the title off him and didnt put him back in the slot when he came back, again, just descended down the card.

I agree with Top, the booking of these young guys is shocking, and its not entirely their fault. The seeds for these guys to step up should have been planted years ago. We cant complain about the older guys 'stealing' the top stop, if realistically we all agree that Evolution, Cena or Lesnar are the only pheasable options!

There's a reason why the only candidates are those you mention - the WWE hasn't booked anyone else to be credible enough. WWE obviously felt giving guys the top belts would be enough to give them credibility but they only ended up diminishing the value of the heavyweight titles.

Sheamus, Del Rio, Swagger, Ziggler and Miz have all held the top titles yet their booking since has not been fitting of ex-champions. There were opportunities with every one of the above but the WWE never capitalised and we're left with falling back on same guys main-eventing for years on end.

The only 2 guys the WWE have pushed into the main event have almost been against their own wishes, and that was reflected in the booking. One is now injured and the other alienated seemingly.

Sting!

liverbnz wrote:

NickisBHAFC wrote:Cessaro for me.

For what? WWE champ? Ridiculous suggestion. Not even close to it. Excellent in the ring but has no character to speak of, carries himself awkwardly and looks like a gymnast from Eastern Europe with that ring attire. People are going waaaaay overboard with this guy waaaaaay too soon. He's about 1 year of solid booking away from the main event yet was nowhere to be seen on RAW.

There's only 5 people who can carry that belt if Bryan relinquishes. Punk, HHH, Orton, Cena and Batista at a push. Any other suggestions are fanciful.

While I do think it's too early to give the title to Cesaro, I think you are wrong when it comes to judging him. Yes, he's excellent in the ring but he has a lot more going for him as well, I think he's got a fantastic, unique look and holds himself fine. Right now he's with Heyman so doesn't necessarily need to have the strongest character but I can see immediately how he will be booked afterwards, he's a very smiley nice guy so it's very easy to have him as a likeable face. Also I suspect the reason he wasn't on Raw this week was the same reason John Cena wasn't on Raw the week before, because WWE are trying to get people to watch Main Event on the Network so are now saving the big names for Raw. I thought it was testament to Cesaro that they left him off of Raw and had him as the main selling point of Main Event.

CM Punk isn't even a wrestler any more so that is a much more fanciful suggestion...

WWE are supposedly addressing it on RAW next week from London. This will never happen but if Bryan does have to hand the title over it would be amazing if it was Bad News Barrett. Holding the IC and WWE-WHC title at the same time would be amazing.

Crimey wrote:

liverbnz wrote:

NickisBHAFC wrote:Cessaro for me.

For what? WWE champ? Ridiculous suggestion. Not even close to it. Excellent in the ring but has no character to speak of, carries himself awkwardly and looks like a gymnast from Eastern Europe with that ring attire. People are going waaaaay overboard with this guy waaaaaay too soon. He's about 1 year of solid booking away from the main event yet was nowhere to be seen on RAW.

There's only 5 people who can carry that belt if Bryan relinquishes. Punk, HHH, Orton, Cena and Batista at a push. Any other suggestions are fanciful.

While I do think it's too early to give the title to Cesaro, I think you are wrong when it comes to judging him. Yes, he's excellent in the ring but he has a lot more going for him as well, I think he's got a fantastic, unique look and holds himself fine. Right now he's with Heyman so doesn't necessarily need to have the strongest character but I can see immediately how he will be booked afterwards, he's a very smiley nice guy so it's very easy to have him as a likeable face. Also I suspect the reason he wasn't on Raw this week was the same reason John Cena wasn't on Raw the week before, because WWE are trying to get people to watch Main Event on the Network so are now saving the big names for Raw. I thought it was testament to Cesaro that they left him off of Raw and had him as the main selling point of Main Event.

CM Punk isn't even a wrestler any more so that is a much more fanciful suggestion...

 
His look is unique I'll give you that, I just think it looks a little daft. Is there a reason for those thigh band things? He's also likeable but then he's being booked as a heel so that totally negates that part of his character. The way he walks 'through the curtain' and to the ring as well as that silly little punch the air 3 times thing reeks of awkardness and of a man that's not totally sure how he's supposed to carry himself. He's like a geek in a stripclub. His promos are even more evidence of the lack of assured nature and his voice is quite dull - hence the reason he is with Heyman.
 
He can get away with these things at the moment. He's fresh, he's over, he can wrestle and he's everybody's next big thing - but once the novelty wears off and people get fed up with the over-fawning then these things get picked on. Essentially people go from one extreme to the other when the reality is, he has some very good attrubutes and some that need a lot of work, i.e. he has potential.
 
My suggestion on who can carry the belt was more about who has the credibility to do so and is currently employed by the WWE (although I missed out Lesnar).

It's bound to be HHH to keep the authority story line going

liverbnz wrote:
His look is unique I'll give you that, I just think it looks a little daft. Is there a reason for those thigh band things?

Provides stability and support, same reason they tape up their wrists. It helps his legs during his feats of strength.

I would rather young talent didn't win their first major title when it's vacant.

HHH is the perfect fit. He's got the heat to pull it off. Makes sense in context too.

The only reason I suggest Ziggler is because he's a face with a story that goes with mismanagement by the Authority and would grab the same crowd core as Bryan, though not as successfully. He could thwart Kane and Stephanie. And he won't be damaged by a short run. But he's not main event enough (WWE's fault).

It would also work on a heel Sheamus.

It's the perfect opportunity to elevate the IC Title. Keep the title on Bryan until he's fit to return, albeit aslong as it's a maximum 8 week lay off. He can still be on tv without wrestling. I'd like to see Barrett and Sheamus close out a few episodes of Raw and Smackdown to give the midcard titles more exposure. The Shield v Evolution and Cena v Wyatt have been booked stronger than Bryan v Kane anyway so there's no reason why them fueds can't continue and close the next couple of PPVs.

I still don't think the WWE have full faith in Bryan anyway and I still stand by my opinion of the Yes chant being more over than Bryan himself so it would surprise me if they stripped him.

Samo wrote:

liverbnz wrote:
His look is unique I'll give you that, I just think it looks a little daft. Is there a reason for those thigh band things?

Provides stability and support, same reason they tape up their wrists.  It helps his legs during his feats of strength.

That's fair enough I guess but generally wrist straps are used becasue it's the weakest part of the arm so the stability is required especially if you are carrying our heavy lifting (bench, press, etc). With the glutes being the biggest muscles in the human body it's not an area that's often supported, in fact it's pretty rare in my experience. But given Cesaro's pretty impressive lifting skills it does make some logical sense so cheers for shedding light on that.   

Mr H wrote:It's the perfect opportunity to elevate the IC Title. Keep the title on Bryan until he's fit to return, albeit aslong as it's a maximum 8 week lay off. He can still be on tv without wrestling. I'd like to see Barrett and Sheamus close out a few episodes of Raw and Smackdown to give the midcard titles more exposure. The Shield v Evolution and Cena v Wyatt have been booked stronger than Bryan v Kane anyway so there's no reason why them fueds can't continue and close the next couple of PPVs.

I still don't think the WWE have full faith in Bryan anyway and I still stand by my opinion of the Yes chant being more over than Bryan himself so it would surprise me if they stripped him.

 
I agree with everything else you say here but what makes you say this out of interest?

I have long agreed and suggested that the chant is more popular than it's perceived backing of Bryan

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:I have long agreed and suggested that the chant is more popular than it's perceived backing of Bryan

What makes you think this?

The reaction to Bryan turning on the Wyatts was the biggest I've heard in years. Probably since Austin returning in 2003. That'd was to do with fans being angered with Bryan's treatment by WWE and the sense of relief when they changed their mind. Crowds turned heel on Batista for winning the Rumble due to Bryan. They took over RAW post Rumble due to a number of things, but mainly Bryan. They hated on Rey Mysterio due to Bryan.

I'm not saying Bryan isn't over. He is over. But the Yes Chant is more over. I don't think anyone can disagree that if he wasn't accompanied by the Yes Chant that his popularity wouldn't be so strong. The highlight of a live event for some fans will 100% be waiting for Bryan to come out so they can chant Yes, not so they can see Bryan.

Mr H wrote:I'm not saying Bryan isn't over. He is over. But the Yes Chant is more over. I don't think anyone can disagree that if he wasn't accompanied by the Yes Chant that his popularity wouldn't be so strong. The highlight of a live event for some fans will 100% be waiting for Bryan to come out so they can chant Yes, not so they can see Bryan.

 
Don't agree with that at all in so far as how could you even tell if the chant was more over than the character? It's just one facet of the character that the fans warm to and contrbutes to them liking Bryan. I don't think people buy a ticket to chant Yes (they could start one anywhere), they buy it to see Daniel Bryan. Of course Bryan is more over because of the chant in the same way Austin was more over due to 3:16 and the Rock's chants did the same for him.
 
The chant doesn't get over because it's a catchy chant (or maybe for a short while until the novelty wears off - Fandango), it gets over because of the wrestler. Bryan is over regardless of the Yes chant, albeit maybe less so but then all the greatest wrestlers had their chants/catchphrases.

If it wasnt a catchy chant it wouldnt get over when Big Show does it. They don't chant YES when someone else does it cos they love Bryan, they shout it cos they love the interactivity. That also applies to Bryan. Especially helps with kids.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:If it wasnt a catchy chant it wouldnt get over when Big Show does it. They don't chant YES when someone else does it cos they love Bryan, they shout it cos they love the interactivity. That also applies to Bryan. Especially helps with kids.

Big Show has had the crowd chanting Yes, but he has never had the same level of noise or % inclusion of the fans as Bryan does.

Pretty massive reaction for a big nobody though. I think the crowd wouldve done the YES chant were it Ziggler too.

How does any of that prove that the chant is more over than Bryan? It just proves that it's over nothing else.

Just because everyone chants it even when Bryan isnt there doesnt make it more over than Bryan.

Thats like saying the WHAT? Chants are more over than Austin.

Yeah think that's total nonsense, he had been doing the 'Yes' chants for two years and they weren't universally done or hugely over. It was only when Daniel Bryan started getting over, so around his feud with The Shield as part of Team Hell No and then his run to the World Title at Summerslam that the chant actually started getting ridiculously popular because Bryan was getting so popular.

I would agree that he wouldn't be as over if he didn't have the chant, but that is such a meaningless statement, he wouldn't be as over if he didn't have the beard or if he wasn't as good a wrestler. Austin wouldn't have been as over if he didn't do his catchphrases, neither would The Rock. Doesn't mean the catchphrases are more over than they are, just that it is one aspect of their popularity. 

When Big Show was getting the 'Yes' chants I thought that flopped, the crowd were not anywhere near as into the chants as they have been with Bryan and the noise levels were much lower. Big Show is hardly a nobody, he is usually mildly popular.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Pretty massive reaction for a big nobody though. I think the crowd wouldve done the YES chant were it Ziggler too.

So that proves that the chant is over, but not as over as Bryan.

If the chant were more over than Bryan the volume of the chant would be the same regardless of who started it. But when Bryan starts the chant his involvement makes it louder.

Therefore:
Big Show < Yes Chant < Daniel Bryan

Not really, because it's being lead by Big Show. The anti cheer. Similarly the chant isn't over with Baseball crowds because of Bryan.

Frankly, people are misunderstanding the point. Bryan isn't as over as the reaction to the YES chant suggests. That night he was on top of the cage is a perfect example. Some people were saying he's more over than Austin or Rock were. Nonsense.

I would put some comparison to the TNA "this is awesome" nonsense. It isn't. They like to chant.

Unless you're trying to tell me that Daniel Bryan is more over than Big Show. Hero is camp, Adam has poor taste and Gavin is miserable too; if we're saying things everyone knows.

Thanks for fighting my corner on this Chris! Basically I'd ask this -

What would a casual fan look forward to most -

A) Joining in the Yes Chant
B) Listening to a Daniel Bryan promo

The answer is A.

Ask the same question about the Rock -

Would a casual fan rather -

A) Join in with his catchphrases
B) Listen to a Rock promo.

The answer is B. Because Rock always had the audience in the palm of his hand. His charisma and mere presence was more over than his catchphrases.

A comparison I'd make to Bryan is that the 'Woooooo' chant is more over than a post 2010 Ric Flair.

So the Yes chant is more over than Daniel Bryan promos not Daniel Bryan.

I think more than anything people want to see Daniel Bryan/The Rock/Stone Cold win matches. Everything else is secondary.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Not really, because it's being lead by Big Show. The anti cheer. Similarly the chant isn't over with Baseball crowds because of Bryan.

Frankly, people are misunderstanding the point. Bryan isn't as over as the reaction to the YES chant suggests. That night he was on top of the cage is a perfect example. Some people were saying he's more over than Austin or Rock were. Nonsense.

I would put some comparison to the TNA "this is awesome" nonsense. It isn't. They like to chant.

I really don't think anyone is missing the point, we're just confused as to what you are arguing for exactly. Nobody disputes that Bryan is more over due to the Yes chants yet this point is seemingly continually made as if it proves the chant is more over than Bryan when it does not.

That isn't in doubt liverbnz. Of course people want to see Bryan win. My argument is that the Yes chant is more popular with the fans than Daniel Bryan is.

Mr H wrote:Thanks for fighting my corner on this Chris! Basically I'd ask this -

What would a casual fan look forward to most -

A)  Joining in the Yes Chant
B) Listening to a Daniel Bryan promo

The answer is A.

Ask the same question about the Rock -

Would a casual fan rather -

A) Join in with his catchphrases
B) Listen to a Rock promo.

The answer is B. Because Rock always had the audience in the palm of his hand. His charisma and mere presence was more over than his catchphrases.

A comparison I'd make to Bryan is that the 'Woooooo' chant is more over than a post 2010 Ric Flair.

Expect it isn't the same at all. The Rock's strength was his promos so obviously they were looking forward to that more, he also didn't have a catchphrase that was the same as the 'Yes' chant, none were as easy to do as a fan.

Would the fans rather -

A) Join in with the 'Yes' chant
B) Watch a Daniel Bryan match

I think B is the answer and that is because Bryan's charisma and talent shines through in his matches.

I think you overestimate the intelligence of the fans. Although I think everyone would rather watch the wrestlers wrestle because thats the point.